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quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

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Michael Gill Paso Syrah, The 17.5’er (2)

Speed to First Woot:
14m 56.778s
First Sucker:
mikeebridges
Last Wooter to Woot:
jimjacks66
Last Purchase:
a year ago
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Top 47% of all Woots
Woots Sold (rank):
Bottom 31% of Wine Woots
Top 46% of all Woots

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  • 79% bought 1
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Quality Posts


Cesare


quality posts: 1598 Private Messages Cesare

Michael Gill "Big Rock" Paso Robles Syrah (The '17.5'er') 2-Pack
$54.99 $̶9̶4̶.̶0̶0̶ 42% off List Price
2010 Michael Gill "Big Rock" Paso Robles Syrah
CT link above

Winery website

-il Cesare
Sole Absolute Triple
Exalted High Tastemaster Supreme
“In the entire world there are only a few sounds that bring joy to all but the most jaded. One is the murmur of a kitten purring. Another is the thwack of a well-pitched baseball hitting a perfectly swung bat. And the third is the pop of a cork being pulled from a bottle of wine.” —George Taber

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

Hello, anybody there? Yes, I am listed as the 'consulting winemaker' here. This means Michael Gill can get some sleep for once.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

For some perspective on the ripeness levels of this fruit, take a look at http://stillmanbrown.blogspot.com/2013/09/harvest-in-west-paso-colossus-of-rhones.html

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

Every post a quality post! To quote myself:
"The Syrah leaves turn color before the grapes are ready to pick. The sugar levels, and consequent alcohols, may seem very high, but the acid levels maintain into the high 20s and sometimes higher. Flavors are also not fully developed at 'normal' levels, and the seeds aren't lignified yet. A cool year like 2011 gave us wine with an alcohol of 16.5%, probably as low as we'll see absent the threat of another typhoon!"

cortot20


quality posts: 137 Private Messages cortot20

I had a zin a couple of weeks ago that was listed at 16.5 and while the wine didn't show heat you definitely felt it later. Stillman, will this wine put me on my a$$? If so, in for 3. ;)

CT

cortot20


quality posts: 137 Private Messages cortot20

Is this the same vineyard you get your colossus Syrah from.?

CT

McMalbec


quality posts: 8 Private Messages McMalbec
stillmanbrown wrote:Every post a quality post! To quote myself:
"The Syrah leaves turn color before the grapes are ready to pick. The sugar levels, and consequent alcohols, may seem very high, but the acid levels maintain into the high 20s and sometimes higher. Flavors are also not fully developed at 'normal' levels, and the seeds aren't lignified yet. A cool year like 2011 gave us wine with an alcohol of 16.5%, probably as low as we'll see absent the threat of another typhoon!"



Thank you for addressing what would seem to be a very high alcohol level. Still a student of PR Syrah, how would this compare in style with a Andrew Murray (Terra Bella Vineyard)? TIA.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
cortot20 wrote:Is this the same vineyard you get your colossus Syrah from.?



Yes, I jumped in the same year (2010) although I bottle and release earlier. We actually make the wines together, I just take different barrels.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
McMalbec wrote:Thank you for addressing what would seem to be a very high alcohol level. Still a student of PR Syrah, how would this compare in style with a Andrew Murray (Terra Bella Vineyard)? TIA.



The AM TB is oakier, if I recall, but I haven't had the most recent one. That vineyard's to the NW of Gill near Adelaida, but I haven't been in it.

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

Question 1: will this wine at lest kiss me after knocking me on my @$$ with that 17.5 abv 2x4?

Question 2: most yeasts don't like anywhere near 17.5, is this in fact dry? I'd expect a percent or two of sugar on that high an abv

Question 3: what would this taste like if You/ Mr Gill got together with Mr Clark smith and adjusted the alcohol down to say...13.5 or whatever was determined to be the sweet spot?

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
cmaldoon wrote:Question 1: will this wine at lest kiss me after knocking me on my @$$ with that 17.5 abv 2x4?

Question 2: most yeasts don't like anywhere near 17.5, is this in fact dry? I'd expect a percent or two of sugar on that high an abv

Question 3: what would this taste like if you/ mr gill got together with Mr Clark smith and adjusted the alcohol down to say...13.5 or whatever was determine to be the sweet spot?



1) Yes. It's balanced - the acid is fairly high, there is a LOT of real, complex fruit, and it's neither astringent nor tanninless syrup.
2) It's bone dry (under .1%) though of course the alcohol and glycerol add to texture. Several yeasts will go to 17.5-18 naturally, and eat all the sugar. Of course some would stop at 15 and die, leaving one or two percent RS, and then an Aussie winemaker would have to come along and make one of those horrid sparkling Shirazzzzzs.

3) Nothing against Clark, but I think the 'sweet spot' tastings have something of the Riedel suggestibility phenomenon to them. The flavors would be the same, if not shocked by the ultrafiltration, and the acid higher. I'm not a 'natural' wine purist by any means, but this is one technique I think best reserved for, oh, Merlot. And perhaps Grenache.

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
stillmanbrown wrote:Yes, I jumped in the same year (2010) although I bottle and release earlier. We actually make the wines together, I just take different barrels.



Which barrels do you take versus what he takes? Do you work on a draft system or do you get yours first (or vice versa?) or do you both happen to want significantly different barrels?

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
stillmanbrown wrote:1) Yes. It's balanced - the acid is fairly high, there is a LOT of real, complex fruit, and it's neither astringent nor tanninless syrup.
2) It's bone dry (under .1%) though of course the alcohol and glycerol add to texture. Several yeasts will go to 17.5-18 naturally, and eat all the sugar. Of course some would stop at 15 and die, leaving one or two percent RS, and then an Aussie winemaker would have to come along and make one of those horrid sparkling Shirazzzzzs.

3) Nothing against Clark, but I think the 'sweet spot' tastings have something of the Riedel suggestibility phenomenon to them. The flavors would be the same, if not shocked by the ultrafiltration, and the acid higher. I'm not a 'natural' wine purist by any means, but this is one technique I think best reserved for, oh, Merlot. And perhaps Grenache.



Firstly, thanks as always for the candid replies. It really helps.

In response to #2, were "super" yeasts selected and inoculated to begin with given how high the Brix was? Or do "super" yeast get added later in the process to finish the fermentation?

In response to #3, do you feel that de-alcing is still something we do not know how to do well enough yet to not negitively effect the wine? Also, do you feel that the 17.5 in fact helps this wine or that it is simply a byproduct of the terroir and ripeness desired?

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
cmaldoon wrote:Which barrels do you take versus what he takes? Do you work on a draft system or do you get yours first (or vice versa?) or do you both happen to want significantly different barrels?



I own my own barrels. I might make minor changes in mine, ask him what he likes when we taste them, etc. Our palates aren't that different, fortunately.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
cmaldoon wrote:Firstly, thanks as always for the candid replies. It really helps.

In response to #2, were "super" yeasts selected and inoculated to begin with given how high the Brix was? Or do "super" yeast get added later in the process to finish the fermentation?

In response to #3, do you feel that de-alcing is still something we do not know how to do well enough yet to not negitively effect the wine? Also, do you feel that the 17.5 in fact helps this wine or that it is simply a byproduct of the terroir and ripeness desired?



Same yeast all the way through, and I wouldn't call it 'super'. I don't know if it would take another must to 17+, but it works here.
I'm sure I could play with it to good effect, but it seems as though the major use of it has been not to lower alcohol, but to add back extract - winemakers taking 4-6 or more ton/acre wines, taking a big portion of the wine, and removing the alcohol and water both, then blending back into the untouched portion. Helps with acid too, if the wine was low acid hot climate.
But I'd have to drive too far from the coast, in addition to other inconveniences! I think the 17.5 is natural, and doesn't need to be considered an asset or a flaw. I pick reds at barely 20 brix to make some Roses, and I generally don't manipulate them either.

rlmanzo


quality posts: 23 Private Messages rlmanzo

I just happened to have a friend show up with this wine the other night for some football. In retrospect, fitting, given the All-American character of the wine.

Michael Gill Cellars 2010 Syrah Big Rock Vineyard

Upon opening, the alcohol and oak character were almost overwhelming. Glancing at the label revealed 17.5% alcohol. Yikes.

This wine is thoroughly new world and makes no apologies. The wine was in a decanter and as time went on the oak and alcohol mellowed. With time raspberries and vanilla began to dominate.

My friend who brought the wine(He is a big Cab guy) got tons of vanilla on the nose, with subtle notes of black licorice.

The wine had a nice mouthfeel with lots of fruit and was quite delicious. Unfortunately, I had a hard time getting past the alcohol. With more time in the bottle this will likely become less pronounced but after 2 hours in a decanter, was still pretty apparent.

My friend: “ This wine is The Bomb...I just want to get a slab of prime-rib and drink this entire bottle”

Quite the endorsement.

Overall, a very nice, and really delicious bottle of wine. It is big, bold and New World to a T. Subtle, it is not. (I’m sure RPM will NOT approve)

Still, it is clearly well-made(now that I see SB was a consultant, I'm not surprised) and shall be added to my cellar.

Its a long football season....

Cheers.



Is it broke or just fractured?

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 563 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

If I'm not mistaken, the DFW folks tried this. I gave them pads of paper and pens so maybe we'll see some notes. Unless I'm mistaken.



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stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

The last Kabinett I had was absolutely awesome, except for the 7% alcohol. I had to add vodka.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

The objection to (only relatively) high alcohol levels in wine is partly ideological, but began when wine critics that got everything for free discovered that they were weaving after only three bottles for lunch, and decided to blame the winery instead of their own lack of self-control.
Yes, I know some high alcohol wines are unbalanced. Actually, most wines are!

otolith


quality posts: 22 Private Messages otolith

MN peeps, check out the gatherings tab.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
--John Muir

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown
stillmanbrown wrote:The last Kabinett I had was absolutely awesome, except for the 7% alcohol. I had to add vodka.



I'm throwing away great lines here faster than Robert Parker gave 100 point scores right before he sold to the Chinese!

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
stillmanbrown wrote:The last Kabinett I had was absolutely awesome, except for the 7% alcohol. I had to add vodka.



This is funny.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
stillmanbrown wrote:I'm throwing away great lines here faster than Robert Parker gave 100 point scores right before he sold to the Chinese!



The question is: how much vodka did you add? Are you sure that you didn't just take the vodka from your Kabinet and drink that by itself?

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

UBlink


quality posts: 18 Private Messages UBlink

This wine did show up at the recent DFW Wine Woot dinner and some of us did take advantage of TT's thoughtful provision of note taking paraphernalia.

The appearance was very dark purple, almost opaque. On the nose I did pick up the heat along with some spice. The fruit coming through was plum. I didn't pick up a lot of oak.

On the palate the flavor I got was cherry. I was particularly impressed with the rich, almost velvet-like mouthfeel. Tannins were apparent but well integrated. I did not really pick up the heat at this point. It's just a big, luscious, in your face, bold Paso syrah. If you like that style I think you'll love this wine.

Following the eight word profile, political economy in eight words:
Ain't no free lunch - them what has gets.

chazd


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chazd

In for one. May have to stop at Michael's tasting room on my trip to Paso at the end of October.

UBlink


quality posts: 18 Private Messages UBlink
ThunderThighs wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the DFW folks tried this. I gave them pads of paper and pens so maybe we'll see some notes. Unless I'm mistaken.


Ok, I posted my notes, but now I'm thinking a glass of wine might be nice and quitting time is 8 hours away. Thanks a lot, TT.

Following the eight word profile, political economy in eight words:
Ain't no free lunch - them what has gets.

kaolis


quality posts: 27 Private Messages kaolis
rlmanzo wrote: Unfortunately, I had a hard time getting past the alcohol. With more time in the bottle this will likely become less pronounced but after 2 hours in a decanter, was still pretty apparent.



This comment is not directed to the wine up today, but to the above comment in general. From a technical standpoint alcohol does not change, and that as a wine ages and the fruit subsides the alcohol becomes more apparent, not less. I do not believe that alcohol per se ever integrates and becomes less pronounced.

Again, not blasting the alcohol in this wine at all, if the wine is balanced and carries the alcohol that is what matters... that and leaving the car keys at home.. ;)

Cheers!

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 563 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

UBlink wrote:Ok, I posted my notes, but now I'm thinking a glass of wine might be nice and quitting time is 8 hours away. Thanks a lot, TT.

Your screaming monkey will be happy when you're home.



FORUM MODERATOR.............ON VACATION!
To contact Customer Service, use the SUPPORT form at the top of every woot page
••• ► Woot's Return Policy ◄ ••• ► Did you check your spam/junk folders for a CS reply?
CANCEL?? How to cancel your order in the first 15 minutes!! - except Woot-Offs & expedited orders

silent7seven


quality posts: 12 Private Messages silent7seven

Idaho is on the list? Sneaking this one in eh? Anything over 16% is treated like liquor here unless it is label as a "dessert wine", so I'm not sure this is allowed to be imported except by a state controlled dispensary.

Anyway, I don't care; I just thought it was mildly interesting.

---------------------------
And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat, live in decline

jmdavidson


quality posts: 57 Private Messages jmdavidson

SO and I had the opportunity to try this wine last night. PnP: great dark burgundy color. Smell: hot/alcohol, along with cherry and oak. Checked the bottle: 17.5%. Ok, that explains it. Flavor profile (initially): dark cherry and not sure what else due to the alcohol. We decided that this big boy needed a rest, so we left it for an hour.

Round 2. Alot of the alcohol had blown off, but the finish still had some, so we decided that maybe a little more time would let it open up.

Round 3 (about a half an hour later). Now the flavor profile was really emerging: dark berry and dark cherry with a finish of either licorice or vanilla.

Bottom line: a really big, flavorful syrah, which lives up to the boldness of the grape here. This needs an hour or two decant to allow the alcohol to subside and the rich flavors to emerge. We paired this with blue cheese and then dark, dark chocolate. Both were amazing with it. After seeing today's price, it seems reasonable. Buy this if you like big wines; wimpy sippers need not waste their time. We recorked it and put it in the fridge. We will re-evaluate it at tonight's wine get together.

cortot20


quality posts: 137 Private Messages cortot20

Thanks for the notes on today's wine. I'm generally avoiding anything over $20 bucks a bottle right now but I love big paso syrahs and you guys have me on the fence. Nice work.

Edit: if this was a three pack at this price or even $5 more I would be all over it.

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
silent7seven wrote:Idaho is on the list? Sneaking this one in eh? Anything over 16% is treated like liquor here unless it is label as a "dessert wine", so I'm not sure this is allowed to be imported except by a state controlled dispensary.

Anyway, I don't care; I just thought it was mildly interesting.



By all means, post about it publicly instead of quietly taking advantage.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

cortot20


quality posts: 137 Private Messages cortot20
kylemittskus wrote:By all means, post about it publicly instead of quietly taking advantage.



Yeah, it didn't make any sense to me either.

CT

loveladyelectric


quality posts: 23 Private Messages loveladyelectric

Can't find my laptop power cable, so this is from an iPad and will be more concise (you're welcome.)

I had a single bottle of this delivered in a box. I wasn't sure if neilloseswine had lost it, or if my friend Michael Gill got my birthday wrong. I'll state this up front- Michael Gill is a friend of mine, we drink together regularly, and I'm a fan of his wines

Upon opening, you'll find this is a new world wine, and you'll know its a Syrah. The nose is very in your face with dark fruits and vanilla, a hint of spice, and alcohol. Stillman is a very good winemaker, but he's not a magician- you don't hide 17.5% completely. I originally opened this at room temperature, but recorked it and opened it two days later. I'm drinking it know and between the temperature and time, the alcohol has become much more subdued.

Drinking the wine is an experience as much as any I've had. When you open this chilled, you get cool, bone dry fruits with a slight chalkiness. I like this a lot, almost reminds me of Cougar Crest. As the wine opens up and warms up, the fruits come out more, the alcohol comes out more, and the vanilla and spice become present. As in your face as the fruits are, this wine is still a complex wine. Give it another 2-3 hours and you'll get more subdued fruits, stronger spices, and more relaxed alcohol. No, you won't forget this wine is 17.5%, but you probably won't mind either.

I really like this wine, especially after being open a few days. Highly recommend opening it chilled. Because of the alcohol and overall dryness, I highly recommend drinking this with same fatty meat like a steak or lamb. This wine could hold its own with a curry, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you can handle the alcohol, you'll love this wine; if not, it may not be your thing.

stillmanbrown


quality posts: 141 Private Messages stillmanbrown

Hot damn Shiraz, Darlin'!
Yeah, serving at 55-65 F is the dance move...

zmanonice


quality posts: 21 Private Messages zmanonice

We had this wine at the last DFW Woot dinner. The color was a deep, dark purple to the edge, and opaque as expected. Dark berries on the nose. Hard to pick up other notes as the heat covers up everything else. Tart wine, medium-plus tannins, with a lingering finish. Liked the flavor of this wine. Picked up a good bit of fruit, did not pick up any spices or tar, and the heat carries through. We opened this later in the dinner, but maybe we should have opened it at the beginning of the dinner to let it air out.

My last note was that I would buy depending on the price. Based on today's offer, it has me thinking, but I would not be a buyer at the list price.

Z

mjrowe


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mjrowe

Still no shipping to MI? This is the second offer in a week that I've tried to buy only to be disappointed. Anyone know what's going on and if MI shipping will ever return?

chipgreen


quality posts: 186 Private Messages chipgreen
mjrowe wrote:Still no shipping to MI? This is the second offer in a week that I've tried to buy only to be disappointed. Anyone know what's going on and if MI shipping will ever return?


If it's any consolation, you're not alone.