North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
winesmith wrote:Yes, the Mollydooker shake is quite famous, and it works. In their case, the problem arises from screwcaps, which protect the wine from oxygen, but problematically so for big reds. Here you're not so much dissipating CO2 as aerating the wine and opening it up, plus dispelling H2S and other stinky sulfides (not related to sulfites).



Not to open another can of worms, but I sort of want to anyway.

Based on that comment, I'm guessing you aren't a big proponent of screw caps, which honestly, I'm surprised to find out, just based on your use and knowledge of technology.

What is your take on screw caps, good, bad, have their place? Thoughts on ageability with screw caps? From the research I have read regarding screw caps, there are "supposedly" some which are made to allow air into the bottle at the same rate as a cork would. Thoughts on this?

Obviously, the biggest issue with Screw caps is the lack of long-term research and results to support any claims both for or against them. Many claim the benefits (cork taint, bacteria, cork failure) etc, as more than enough reason to switch to screw caps. I believe it is Larry Shafer who only uses screws caps now and has abandoned cork altogether. There are others who swear by the cork, whether because they feel it allows the wine to age correctly, or because they don't think they can sell a wine with a screwcap because it makes them look cheap, non-traditional and unsophisticated. I think there are still some who believe in the latter (RPM), but I think the culture/view of screw caps is slowly changing with younger generations being introduced to wine. I, for one, have never not purchased a wine because it had a screwcap.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

Winedavid39


quality posts: 197 Private Messages Winedavid39

Guest Blogger

bobrush12866 wrote:We want Crucible!!! WineSmith.... Give it up!!



Just love when Clark is on the boards. We'll keep trying to land WineSmith wines forever. These forums are made for Clark.

Thanks for the education Clark!

winesmith


quality posts: 37 Private Messages winesmith
bsevern wrote:Tried this at the NorCal Vintage Bordeaux tasting Saturday.

When I initially tried this, I felt it was an average California red table wine, something you'd expect to find at TJ's in the $10-15 range. However, once it had time to breath, it really opened up, morphing into something much, much more enjoyable.

Lots of deep dark fruit, hints of spice, sweet tannins, juicy black cherry, blackberry, cocoa, somewhat complex, with a moderate finish.

Well worth the ~ $16/bottle IMHO


I'm afraid this behavior is typical of my wines until they are quite elderly. Within the confines of balance and grace, I try to build wines with a very long time trajectory. Trying to make such a wine come roaring out of the bottle while also being designed for graceful longevity is kind of an attempt to defy gravity. By and large, you take your choice between hitting a pop fly and swinging for the fences.

The "New World" style has little to do with our native terroir. It's based on a series of techniques to impress novice consumers who aren't yet savvy enough to do as you have done - to wait for the wine to show its nuances. This is done with high maturity, both for its raisiny forward fruit and its impactful alcohol, and with other cheap tricks like oak and butteriness.

Showing that California wines can be great expressions of Old World aesthetics is the whole point of WineSmith. I don't try to blow your ears off, but rather to make you sad that it's all gone. It is a privilege to connect with an audience who is hip enough to appreciate my work.

intheblue16


quality posts: 0 Private Messages intheblue16

What's the odds of seeing a Mascoto some time? I've never seen one on here....Just curious...Thanks!

datruandi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages datruandi

flashing yellow button

datruandi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages datruandi

retracted - double post

cvandivere


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cvandivere

Literally missed it whilst updating my woot account. DAG NABBIT

mud sweat and gears

InFrom


quality posts: 31 Private Messages InFrom
datruandi wrote:flashing yellow button

Congrats on the sellout! A fun day to be reading the board.

InFrom


quality posts: 31 Private Messages InFrom
intheblue16 wrote:What's the odds of seeing a Mascoto some time? I've never seen one on here....Just curious...Thanks!

If it's Moscato you mean, there were a couple in the Hunt Country mixed collections that were a Plus sale a month or two ago.

winesmith


quality posts: 37 Private Messages winesmith
North316 wrote:Not to open another can of worms, but I sort of want to anyway.

Based on that comment, I'm guessing you aren't a big proponent of screw caps, which honestly, I'm surprised to find out, just based on your use and knowledge of technology.

What is your take on screw caps, good, bad, have their place? Thoughts on ageability with screw caps? From the research I have read regarding screw caps, there are "supposedly" some which are made to allow air into the bottle at the same rate as a cork would. Thoughts on this?

Obviously, the biggest issue with Screw caps is the lack of long-term research and results to support any claims both for or against them. Many claim the benefits (cork taint, bacteria, cork failure) etc, as more than enough reason to switch to screw caps. I believe it is Larry Shafer who only uses screws caps now and has abandoned cork altogether. There are others who swear by the cork, whether because they feel it allows the wine to age correctly, or because they don't think they can sell a wine with a screwcap because it makes them look cheap, non-traditional and unsophisticated. I think there are still some who believe in the latter (RPM), but I think the culture/view of screw caps is slowly changing with younger generations being introduced to wine. I, for one, have never not purchased a wine because it had a screwcap.



No no no. I LOVE screwcaps, like all winemakers. But they require a new understanding from both winemakers and consumers. Screwcaps definitely extend the lifetime of a wine and are very helpful in minimizing bottle variation. They are the wave of the future.

Though there's a lot of chatter about them, there do not exist currently screwcaps which pass very much oxygen, and if they did, it could be quite problematic. Corks impart an initial burst and then, if good, provide a nearly hermetic seal, like a screwcap, that allows pencil-thin Mosels to age for thirty years. It would be fine for a screwcap to pass O2 for a year or two, but then the seal should harden so no more air gets in.

There is no lack of research on screwcaps. The Australians have been testing them since the mid-seventies, and there is no doubt of their superiority. I was recently in Australia with a large winery consortium, playing with wine/music matches http://postmodernwinemaking.com/wine-and-music with 30 winemakers. I wanted to pour my 2003 chardonnay, and TSA had taken away my corkscrew, so I asked for one. Not only could they not produce one, but half a dozen of the younger ones DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT WAS!

In Australia and New Zealand, consumers will reject a wine BECAUSE it has a cork. Only screwcaps are accepted. They're right, and we have been laughably slow to make this transition.

Screwcaps present some special challenges for me. As I just explained, I make wines of long aging potential, so I have to be especially careful how I manage their reductive capacity before bottling. Often I have to wait a very long time. I am involved in research to measure reductive strength which you can read about at http://winemaking411.com/products.

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
intheblue16 wrote:What's the odds of seeing a Mascoto some time? I've never seen one on here....Just curious...Thanks!



March 21, 2013
November 30, 2012
August 23, 2012
April 5, 2013 (mixed offering)

They are around, just have to keep an eye out for them.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

cvandivere


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cvandivere

Clark - any chance you have one more 4 pack lying around?

mud sweat and gears

rlmanzo


quality posts: 23 Private Messages rlmanzo
cvandivere wrote:Clark - any chance you have one more 4 pack lying around?



What he said......

I had 2 packs in my cart but wanted to scan the other sites on Woot as well.

Damn shopping cart.

Is it broke or just fractured?

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
winesmith wrote:No no no. I LOVE screwcaps, like all winemakers. But they require a new understanding from both winemakers and consumers. Screwcaps definitely extend the lifetime of a wine and are very helpful in minimizing bottle variation. They are the wave of the future.

Though there's a lot of chatter about them, there do not exist currently screwcaps which pass very much oxygen, and if they did, it could be quite problematic. Corks impart an initial burst and then, if good, provide a nearly hermetic seal, like a screwcap, that allows pencil-thin Mosels to age for thirty years. It would be fine for a screwcap to pass O2 for a year or two, but then the seal should harden so no more air gets in.



Now this makes a lot more sense given what I know about you.

Keep in mind that I am an accountant. What would be the difference, chemically speaking, of a wine sealed with a cork that received X amount of oxygen, divided over the first two years - post bottling, then as you say, was hermetically sealed for the next 8 years; versus a wine with a screw cap that received X amount of oxygen divded over the first 10 years, post bottling, if X was equal and both wines were consumed at their 10 year anniversary?

I realize this being a "perfect world" example, in which we could predict the optimal aging window of a wine prior to even bottling it, and be able to adjust all other factors appropriately, screw cap wins?

Is the industry any closer to creating a screw cap that more accurately mimmicks a cork? (breath and then seal) Is the knowledge/technology out there, so that winemakers who are currently using screw caps, can make pre-bottling adjustments for screw-cap wines to more accurately simulate the aging of cork?

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

greeneggsandham


quality posts: 2 Private Messages greeneggsandham

Clark Smith, “I think I earned your trust with the WineSmith Faux Chablis Double Dare”

Yes you did, and I’m sorry to have missed this one.

Itwdswafo


quality posts: 7 Private Messages Itwdswafo

Just finished reading the comments, what a pleasure to see the winemaker involvement. Would have hit the big yellow button if it wasn't already sold out.

rpm


quality posts: 167 Private Messages rpm
winesmith wrote:I'm afraid this behavior is typical of my wines until they are quite elderly. Within the confines of balance and grace, I try to build wines with a very long time trajectory. Trying to make such a wine come roaring out of the bottle while also being designed for graceful longevity is kind of an attempt to defy gravity. By and large, you take your choice between hitting a pop fly and swinging for the fences.

The "New World" style has little to do with our native terroir. It's based on a series of techniques to impress novice consumers who aren't yet savvy enough to do as you have done - to wait for the wine to show its nuances. This is done with high maturity, both for its raisiny forward fruit and its impactful alcohol, and with other cheap tricks like oak and butteriness.

Showing that California wines can be great expressions of Old World aesthetics is the whole point of WineSmith. I don't try to blow your ears off, but rather to make you sad that it's all gone. It is a privilege to connect with an audience who is hip enough to appreciate my work.



I like your work.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

rpm


quality posts: 167 Private Messages rpm
michaelvella wrote:Folks, this is probably one the of best comments ever posted on wine woot.
Read these words of wisdom, once, or maybe twice.
I gotta go to bed now, work comes early tomorrow, but can't wait to read more about this wine tomorrow.
Heck, I'm sure I'll be in for one..



+1

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

maitredgreg2


quality posts: 1 Private Messages maitredgreg2

I went back to pull the trigger on this wine, only to find that it had sold out. Oh well, maybe next time I won't be so hesitant.

chipgreen


quality posts: 179 Private Messages chipgreen
winesmith wrote:I definitely want to get on your dance cards. We are working to find a good date for a barbecue at the old church I live in in downtown Santa Rosa.

In July, I'm taking Amtrak across the U.S. and would love to meet up with as many of you as possible. UC Press http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520275195 will have just released my book, Postmodern Winemaking, and I can bring wines to taste and my guitar to perform some pieces from my upcoming CD.

I'm in the Cleveland OH area July 14-17 and would love to stage a get together. Then I'm in Philadelphia on July 19th, Manhattan/Long Island on the 22nd, Boston on the 24th,and the last week of July in Nova Scotia.

Anybody that wants to support a book signing party, email me at clark@winemaking411.com.


Sent you an email re: a possible Cleveland gathering

trifecta


quality posts: 69 Private Messages trifecta
winesmith wrote:
All that said, Napa is an amazing place to grow Cabernet Sauvignon, and one of these days, I'll put my $100 Cab, Crucible on a woot sale so you can see my best - Napa Cab done right. It's really an extraordinary wine, and a bargain for what it is. But don't buy it because it's Napa. Buy it because this is me you're talking to.



I also heard a rumor from a credible source (i.e. Clark ) that there might be someone playing the fiddle soon as well! Hint. Hint. Please do!

fredrinaldi


quality posts: 33 Private Messages fredrinaldi
maitredgreg2 wrote:I went back to pull the trigger on this wine, only to find that it had sold out. Oh well, maybe next time I won't be so hesitant.


This is why I'm buying more wine on WTSO, no tax no shipping cost. You lose WW

klezman


quality posts: 119 Private Messages klezman

I decided fate would win on this one, and fate has told me that I don't get a set. I'm happy to take a bottle or two off somebody, though. I'm sure I'd enjoy it and I'm also sure my storage is way full (hence also passing on yesterday's Wellington case).

Thanks for coming Clark, and I'm still looking forward to popping that first bottle of DRV Cab Franc at a work happy hour soon (along with plenty of decant time).

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

SmilingBoognish


quality posts: 46 Private Messages SmilingBoognish
fredrinaldi wrote:This is why I'm buying more wine on WTSO, no tax no shipping cost. You lose WW



Lemme know when this wine shows up there, along with the entertaining and educational information from the winemaker as well as the larger group!

Honestly, there is nothing more "wootesque" than the possibility of a sell out. It really is their thing.

kaolis


quality posts: 27 Private Messages kaolis

Dang, late to the party, both on a comment on the wine and making a purchase.

Noticed this hanging out in a corner of my cellar the other day, but then was away from home for a few days. Saw it was up for sale today but was not able to try for breakfast unfortunately. So a very quick pop and pour note.

Love me some Bordeaux, cut my teeth on it many years ago. When I popped this that was my first impression. Traditional bdx, not the more recent fruit bombs (mho)

Nice fruit with a touch of green(not pepper) and spice. Lean in texture but with good mouth feel entry to lingering finish. A lot of wines with this flavor profile seem to lack something in the middle, but this wine, as I noted, has the feel and the flavors front to end.

Drinking really nice now but no hurry, and I'm thinking this will be an interesting drink in a couple of years.

Anyone want to part with a couple?

burrnini


quality posts: 10 Private Messages burrnini

I missed it while reading the comments

I was going to break one of my rules and buy a set...I very rarely buy any set that is 3 or more of the same wine since I lack the capacity and ability (and probably palate) to cellar wines. I think the last time I did was the Roessler pinots. The discussion has been fantastic and something I would definitely like to support.

I would like to +103 the crucible...I would definitely break my upper limit on price for a bottle of that.

aequitas111


quality posts: 2 Private Messages aequitas111
fredrinaldi wrote:This is why I'm buying more wine on WTSO, no tax no shipping cost. You lose WW



Thanks Fred for causing me to be broke by introducing another wine deal site, ill just be in for potentially 3 deals opposed to one when I'm most vulnerable. Cheers! ;)

fredrinaldi


quality posts: 33 Private Messages fredrinaldi
aequitas111 wrote:Thanks Fred for causing me to be broke by introducing another wine deal site, ill just be in for potentially 3 deals opposed to one when I'm most vulnerable. Cheers! ;)



I'm loving WTSO I don't need to "talk" to the winemaker to make a good buy, got 3 deliveries on tap from WTSO this week, No shipping, No state tax, It's like getting a Free bottle with every purchase, a no brainer here.

fredrinaldi


quality posts: 33 Private Messages fredrinaldi
SmilingBoognish wrote:Lemme know when this wine shows up there, along with the entertaining and educational information from the winemaker as well as the larger group!

Honestly, there is nothing more "wootesque" than the possibility of a sell out. It really is their thing.


You can talk to the wine maker, Me? I want a good deal for my $$$

btphillips


quality posts: 4 Private Messages btphillips
winesmith wrote:Despite the malarkey some scientists may be selling, Pluto IS a planet.

What words mean in common English is determined by usage. Pluto is a planet if enough of us say it is. Power to the people!

“Planet” is a very old term which means “wanderer,” thus any heavenly body which failed to conform to Aristotle’s theory which required precise orbit around the Earth every 24 hours.

Essentially, a planet is a heavenly body that deviates from theory. Pluto’s status as a planet is thus enhanced by its apparent deviation from current scientific theories of planetary formation (spun off from solar matter, etc.).

Pluto’s failure to “clear its area,” and instead to live in peace with its neighbors, was the criterion which modern scientists used to demote it to dwarf status. Similarly, the pesticides, herbicides and irrigation utilized on inflated value Appellation real estate leads to flatter wines which all taste the same.

Yes, Appellation is the enemy of terroir! The vineyards I work with in this blend were all respectful of nature, and show off their living soils in our “Dirty Pictures” gallery at http://www.planetplutowine.com

Planet Pluto Meritage boldly goes where no California wine has gone before. The blend consists of fruit from our network of excellent growers from many regions in California, all of whom I have worked with for many years. Here we show how they function seamlessly as a team to produce a wine of remarkable character and affordability.

Why the Scientists Are Wrong

Like many common English words, “planet” means something else in scientific English, a language few of us speak, which borrows words like “significant” and “energy” and gives them weird and silly new definitions. “Planet” is a very old term which means “wanderer,” thus any heavenly body which failed to conform to Aristotle’s theory which required precise orbit around the Earth every 24 hours. Like all other bodies in the solar system, Pluto qualifies as a planet.

The term “significant,” for example, does not mean important or noteworthy, but only that experimental data conforms to a rather silly statistical criterion, that if both the experiment data and the true population are assumed to be normally distributed – and we usually know for sure that they aren’t – that an apparent effect the data supports could only occur by chance 5% of the time.)

Nowadays, of course, thanks to science fiction depicted on movies and TV, the word has come to mean, for common English speakers, a spherical orb in space in orbit around a star, to which expectation Pluto entirely complies.



Sorry, not all statistical tests for significance assume a nornal distribution.

cortot20


quality posts: 132 Private Messages cortot20
fredrinaldi wrote:I'm loving WTSO I don't need to "talk" to the winemaker to make a good buy, got 3 deliveries on tap from WTSO this week, No shipping, No state tax, It's like getting a Free bottle with every purchase, a no brainer here.



You pay for the shipping. It's built In to the price of the wine. Why do you think they only offer free shipping after you've bought $80+ in wine.

CT

winesmith


quality posts: 37 Private Messages winesmith
rlmanzo wrote:What he said......

I had 2 packs in my cart but wanted to scan the other sites on Woot as well.

Damn shopping cart.



I'm sorry you missed out on the offering. If it's any comfort, you can use the promo code IKNOWCLARK at winesmithwines.com for a 20% discount on bottle one and an additional 20% break on a case. We still have a bit of Planet Pluto left, and there's lots of other interesting stuff there.

winesmith


quality posts: 37 Private Messages winesmith
North316 wrote:Now this makes a lot more sense given what I know about you.

Keep in mind that I am an accountant. What would be the difference, chemically speaking, of a wine sealed with a cork that received X amount of oxygen, divided over the first two years - post bottling, then as you say, was hermetically sealed for the next 8 years; versus a wine with a screw cap that received X amount of oxygen divded over the first 10 years, post bottling, if X was equal and both wines were consumed at their 10 year anniversary?

I realize this being a "perfect world" example, in which we could predict the optimal aging window of a wine prior to even bottling it, and be able to adjust all other factors appropriately, screw cap wins?

Is the industry any closer to creating a screw cap that more accurately mimmicks a cork? (breath and then seal) Is the knowledge/technology out there, so that winemakers who are currently using screw caps, can make pre-bottling adjustments for screw-cap wines to more accurately simulate the aging of cork?



When a cabernet is one day old, it can take up 50 to 100 times the oxygen that a barrel imparts, which is about 1.0 ml per liter of wine per month. Three months later, it's uptake rate has dropped 12 fold, down to 4-8 mls. Two years later, at bottling time, the wine's uptake has dropped below 1.0 ml. Each year this drops even more. In sum, the wine's anti-oxidative power has deeclined at least a thousand-fold over it's life. The closure needs to adapt to this curve. Thus a linear oxygen transmission rate will be too little early on and too much later on.

We can come close to mimicking corks by measuring the wine's vigor at bottling and hitting it with around 1 ppm of O2 if the reductive strength is excessive. Then the hermetic seal may be just what's needed. The key is a methodology to suit each wine to the right bottling strategy. This is a major focus of my consulting these days.

necroneko


quality posts: 0 Private Messages necroneko

Speaking of cans of worms and screw caps, I have an interesting, if second hand Reaction story to share:
I bought these for my Dad as a Father's day/ Birthday gift and I guess he has managed to nuke all four bottles already. I'll try not to read into that too much.

Anyway, his comment on it was the bottles seemed to have a lot of variation. Essentially:
Bottle 1: Nothing special, but OK.
Bottle 2: Excellent, good value wine.
Bottle 3: Corked. (Which I assume is a term he meant to indicate cork rot). Apparently the cork broke while opening and the wine is essentially undrinkable.
Bottle 4: Excellent, same as the 2nd.

Random.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

necroneko wrote:Speaking of cans of worms and screw caps, I have an interesting, if second hand Reaction story to share:
I bought these for my Dad as a Father's day/ Birthday gift and I guess he has managed to nuke all four bottles already. I'll try not to read into that too much.

Anyway, his comment on it was the bottles seemed to have a lot of variation. Essentially:
Bottle 1: Nothing special, but OK.
Bottle 2: Excellent, good value wine.
Bottle 3: Corked. (Which I assume is a term he meant to indicate cork rot). Apparently the cork broke while opening and the wine is essentially undrinkable.
Bottle 4: Excellent, same as the 2nd.

Random.


It is a wide variation there. Feel free to contact support@woot.com about that corked bottle.



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