hinrgman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages hinrgman

I see this will ship to NJ. Usually not the case for Wine.Woot vendors.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
polarbear22 wrote:Remember that vintage ratings are very general. A poor vintage means it is a lot harder to make a great wine.

Out of a small vertical of Phelps Cabernet, I recall the 1998 being very good. I liked it better than the 1997, which was the better vintage. I've also had a 1998 Corison that was very good.

So don't paint with a broad brush. I suspect that is part of the reason we have tasting reports on this wine. I personally will rely more on what they are reporting than on the vintage rating.




IIRC, RPM noted (during the Vet's Cab Tour this past summer) about the vintage year ratings and that a great winemaker can still make some fine (aka excellent) juice.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

monticellovineyards


quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards

Good Morning and Happy President's Day from The Corley Family at Monticello Vineyards!

On this day I like to use " 's " as opposed to " s' " because we focus on our one primary presidential hero, Thomas Jefferson.

I think it is fitting that a wine like our Jefferson Cuvee is being featured today for some obvious reasons and some not so obvious.

Delving deeper down I think this 1998 vintage symbolizes one of the great American ways of thinking - "Choice" and that "The Individual" gets to decide what is right for them.

Wine preference is very individual and as such I rarely comment at all on personal preference – like so many art forms ‘like’ and ‘dislike’ are not always aligned with ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

Same is often true for vintages, particularly when one looks at when they will be drinking the wine – Rich, ripe vintages are often great for drinking early on but not always – Cooler vintages are often great for structure and age-ability in the long-run.

The beauty of wine is that 'You' decide what you like and when you like it!

The 1998 Vintage often draws attention, especially in comparison to the 1997. For my part, I have always thought only ½ the story was told back then by the media. Yes, the 1997 was a superior drinking vintage in the early years with its rich, ripe fruit from all the glorious sunshine. The other side of that ‘coin’ is that the 1998 vintage was always more likely to stand the test of time and be the better drinking vintage in the years to come.

Wine and Spirits published an article on this very topic of 1997 and 1998 wines based on a tasting last October -http://www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/pages/1212Features/1212_NVCabs.html -

What is your "choice" ?

What is your "individual" preference ?

Let us know!

Stephen Corley

monticellowinemaker


quality posts: 4 Private Messages monticellowinemaker

Hi Everyone, my name is Chris Corley. I'm the winemaker at Monticello Vineyards. 2013 will mark my 23rd vintage at Monticello, my 13th as head winemaker. A very quick background on our family winery ... Our dad, Jay Corley, bought an old prune orchard in Napa in 1969 and planted it to grapevines. He grew and sold grapes to some great early Napa wineries from 1971 until 1981. In 1981 we started making our own estate grown wines, known as Monticello Vineyards and the Corley Reserve wines. My brothers Kevin and Stephen also work at the winery, Kevin in the vineyard and Stephen in sales and marketing. We are proud to be one of a dying breed of family-owned and family-run wineries left in Napa. We have an unusually large number of staff that have been with us for more than 10 years, and a good number of staff that have been with us for more than 20 years. This measure of employee retention, which we consider our extended family, is a metric of our business that is as important to us any other traditional business metric. It speaks to our mindset of growing and making great wines, selling them for a fair price, and conducting ourselves in a fair and honest way.

Regarding our offering on wine.woot ... Our Jefferson Cuvee Cabernet Sauvignon has been a hallmark wine for us since the early 1980s, and a wine that I continue great satisfaction from in crafting each year. Every vintage is different as we know, and as has been suggested in previous comments 1998 was a vintage that was not widely celebrated by the press. I think of winemaking as a journey. Certain vintages present navigational challenges, but that doesn't mean we alter the destination. By owning and/or managing all of the vineyards that we make our wines from, we can exercise full control over all aspects of our wines, from pruning through to bottling. This gives us more tools to navigate years like 1998, 2000, 2003, etc.

I agree with some of the comments above that patience and care is rewarded when enjoying these older wines. I like to settle the wine upright (cork up)overnight, and absolutely would decant this wine. It will not only remove any sediment, but I really enjoy decanting. It cleans up older wines and opens up younger wines ... plus its fun. I would consider using a screen for an older wine like this, that can help with removing any tartrate crystals that may have developed over the years. I recently found this wine to open very nicely after decanting and sitting in the decanter for about 45 minutes. Keep in mind this is a wine that has been asleep in a bottle for almost 13 years. Give it a little time to wake up.

I apologize for the long monologue, but am on the road and not certain of how frequently I'll be able to chime in, so wanted to take a little longer opportunity to say hello while I can. I hope everyone has an opportunity to enjoy this wine!

Cheers,
Chris Corley

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
hinrgman wrote:I see this will ship to NJ. Usually not the case for Wine.Woot vendors.



It depends on how many hoops they have to jump thru to get the state license. So the more clients in the state, the more willing the winery is to jumping thru those hoops.

Plus, the larger wineries are the ones that can afford all those fees, and those are the ones that usually have their wines in grocery stores.


That's one thing I've liked about WW in the past, is finding those smaller wineries here that I might not hear of otherwise.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

mibuwolf83


quality posts: 6 Private Messages mibuwolf83

If you'd humor me, Kyle - send me some free bottles and I promise to trash talk every bottle you send no matter how good it is. Maybe that will solve the issue and make everyone happy (except for the winery - they'll be pissed
) Whaddya say?

9

kylemittskus wrote:Let's establish something right now. No one is not being sent not free bottles from no one.

btphillips: you're absolutely correct.

Sdfreedive: pm for you.

And can we all stop threatening to leave if we don't like something. I mean, we're all in third grade, at least.



MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
monticellovineyards wrote:Good Morning and Happy President's Day from The Corley Family at Monticello Vineyards!

On this day I like to use " 's " as opposed to " s' " because we focus on our one primary presidential hero, Thomas Jefferson.

I think it is fitting that a wine like our Jefferson Cuvee is being featured today for some obvious reasons and some not so obvious.

Delving deeper down I think this 1998 vintage symbolizes one of the great American ways of thinking - "Choice" and that "The Individual" gets to decide what is right for them.

Wine preference is very individual and as such I rarely comment at all on personal preference – like so many art forms ‘like’ and ‘dislike’ are not always aligned with ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

Same is often true for vintages, particularly when one looks at when they will be drinking the wine – Rich, ripe vintages are often great for drinking early on but not always – Cooler vintages are often great for structure and age-ability in the long-run.

The beauty of wine is that 'You' decide what you like and when you like it!

The 1998 Vintage often draws attention, especially in comparison to the 1997. For my part, I have always thought only ½ the story was told back then by the media. Yes, the 1997 was a superior drinking vintage in the early years with its rich, ripe fruit from all the glorious sunshine. The other side of that ‘coin’ is that the 1998 vintage was always more likely to stand the test of time and be the better drinking vintage in the years to come.

Wine and Spirits published an article on this very topic of 1997 and 1998 wines based on a tasting last October -http://www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/pages/1212Features/1212_NVCabs.html -

What is your "choice" ?

What is your "individual" preference ?

Let us know!

Stephen Corley



Thanks for popping in, and the post following it as well. Good to know!


And here's the link he mentioned above, so we can click on it.

http://www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/pages/1212Features/1212_NVCabs.html


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

rlmanzo


quality posts: 23 Private Messages rlmanzo
mschauber wrote:And I believe wholeheartedly that the reviews we're getting/posting here are completely honest. That, in my opinion, is the most important thing. There are no added benefits or repercussions for specific leaning reviews.



Agreed. The reviews have been excellent, non-biased and quite informed.

The point of my initial post was not to criticize, but to find some way into this exclusive tasting club!




Is it broke or just fractured?

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
MarkDaSpark wrote:Thanks for popping in, and the post following it as well. Good to know!


And here's the link he mentioned above, so we can click on it.

http://www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/pages/1212Features/1212_NVCabs.html




Interesting that Corison was included in the list, but not if it was her Kronos vineyard.


Edit: Can I say how much I hate the button layout. Keep wanting to use the Edit, but hit the Reply instead. Doh!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

NascarDad


quality posts: 21 Private Messages NascarDad
Cesare wrote:
  • Wine Woot is no longer able to ship to Virginia. Click here for more info.


  • DOH! Guess I dont need to read if it is sweet or dry then..

    monticellowinemaker


    quality posts: 4 Private Messages monticellowinemaker
    Cesare wrote:Really like this winery. Was first introduced to them via Woot a few years ago and have since visited twice after the last two rpm tours. So I was very excited to find a bottle of this to try earlier.

    At first this was a little tight and need to be woken up from it's sleep. But a little air in the glass (no decanter) helped it come alive.
    Pretty aromatic nose with some nice bright cherry fruit and alcohol. Almost kind of a candy smell but not jammy. Hint of earthiness in the background.
    Tastes very different than it smells. Restrained, not too fruity, well integrated - smooth and silky. Medium bodied with good structure. Not disjointed in any way. Quite a bit of acid and great with food. No oak. Slightly hot at the back (but this blew off with time and air later). Decent finish, not great but not bad.

    After a few hours of being opened but kept corked it changed. The nose kept the cherry fruit but added some funky poopy pinot noir-ish type aroma and dropped the alcohol. Very interesting. Tasted as it did earlier just more together, no alcohol, better longer sweet finish.
    I kept half the bottle to try again tonight so we shall see if anything is different.

    This is a great price for a nice aged cab. Held up well all this time and still has life left in it. Not a typical modern Napa fruity oaky vanilla bomb so that makes sense.



    Thanks Cesare. I appreciate your patience in tasting this wine. The locations of our vineyards provide a nice balance of fruit characteristics for blending. Our Cabernet Sauvignon vineyards are in Yountville, Rutherford and St. Helena and provide the really ripe rich fruit that fills in the core of the wine. Our blending varietals, Merlot and Cabernet Franc are grown at the winery in the southern end of Napa Valley known as the Oak Knoll District. The cooler climes in the OKD allow these varietals to fully ripen while maintaining a vibrant acidity. The blend of riper upvalley Cab Sauv and cooler downvalley Merlot and Cab Franc has been a combination that has excited us for years!

    Cheers,
    Chris Corley

    cmaldoon


    quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
    rlmanzo wrote:Agreed. The review have been excellent, non-biased and quite informed.

    The point of my initial post was not to criticize, but to find some way into this exclusive tasting club!



    I too appreciate the reviews. I just wish that someone opened the bottle, poured half a glass, and let everything sit for an hour.

    Many of the reviews on recent wines have come from Wooters at a tasting event in the SF area that Neil attended and brought some upcoming bottles ( the Terra Bella for one).

    If one is worried about the impartiality of reviews, look at the recent Michigan reds thread.

    Also if there is any bias in the reviews it is more that most of us are inclined to like wine and therefore unless a wine is truly awful, we are unlikely to be negative. It's all about reading into a review. I would take most of today's reviews as "decent" or "decent+". Not glowing, but likely worthwhile if you like aged napa cabs.

    The best way to tell if a reviewer liked it is if they bought it ( like me shelling out $35/bottle for that terra bella)

    2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
    Last purchase: 5/3/14

    2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
    My Cellar

    North316


    quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316

    Stephen or Corey, how many cases of this wine was made? When was it originally released?

    My CT
    "Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
    R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

    p2002


    quality posts: 8 Private Messages p2002
    chipgreen wrote:The other day I was researching a specific wine when I stumbled across an entry in a wine blog from an old-time wooter, loweel. It links to a page which describes the slow oxygenation method for opening old wines, aka the Audouze method.

    Thought this might be useful for those contemplating today's offer.



    Thanks Chip! Good research.
    rk

    monticellowinemaker


    quality posts: 4 Private Messages monticellowinemaker
    cortot20 wrote:I had one of these fall out of the sky and into my cellar.

    These are tonights notes.

    Cork broke in half despite careful extraction, it was on its way to crumbly but came out clean in two pieces. Heavy sediment on the cork and neck. Poured into decanter slowly fearing heavy sediment but found only fine sediment in the very bottom which was captured in the shoulder of the bottle.
    Wine was clear with a medium red rim and deep red core. Legs were very visible and defined by large drips that remained for some time.

    Initial glass was after 15 minutes in the decanter and seemed very closed, this surprised me since I figured that a 15 year old cab would show more initially. A swirl brought out some red fruit, leather and eucalyptus. I usually don't pick up much in the way of ancillary flavors but I found these to be quite prominent.
    On the tongue it's definitely medium bodied, this is not a big napa cab. At least not at this stage in its life. The wine is ultra smooth, not a jagged edge on it, my wife remarked that she would drink it and she really dislikes red wine. The finish is short and somewhat unremarkable.
    After an hour later and with only a 1/3 glass left this wine seemed to explode with fruit. It really opened up and started to show dark cherries and raspberries. It became a completely different animal. I had two separate people experience this and so it confirms that this wine needs about an hour of air to get the full potential this wine has to offer. I would have loved to see where it was headed but an hour and half post pop it was all gone.

    Initially this wine was a disappointment to me, I had never had this winery's cab in its youth so I didn't know what to expect but found it a pleasure to drink due to its smoothness but rather unremarkable. But the unexpected explosion of fruit makes this not only much more enjoyable but also much more interesting. The finish also improved remarkably with time.

    I really have no idea how to price a bottle with this much age from a winery I have never heard of but I would happily pay $25-30 a bottle for it. I am a cheapskate though.



    Thanks for your comments. Its great that you were patient to decant the wine and taste it over time. Its so important with these older wines. I'm glad that your experience was positive and that you were able to enjoy a wine from our cellar. This wine is about 13 years in the bottle now. The wine was very balanced in its youth, and the tannins were not 'big' even when young, alhough I suspect its got a couple of more years left in it. Our vintages with bigger initial tannins in their youth, 1999 and 2001, for example, can age gracefully up to 20 years, sometimes longer. That said, bigger is not better, balanced is better, and I think this wine shows very nice balance. Thanks for taking some time with our wine!

    Cheers,
    Chris Corley

    shencken


    quality posts: 0 Private Messages shencken
    Winedavid39 wrote:i don't believe you have the benefit of wine.woot history to factor into your opinion.

    that's about all i can say.



    According to my account history, I've been a member since 2009 and have participated in over 25 woots. But, I don't think that my history has anything to do with whether a wine-seller, that has a forum with the appearance of being community driven, should be disclosing its policy on providing free bottles to reviewers.

    For the record, I am familiar with the rat program (the details of which also were not very well disclosed), and I am also familiar with the well-disclosed Amazon Vine program.

    You can say "what about RP or wine magazine X?" and "of course reviewers received free bottles - everyone knows that" but someone coming to this website for the first time may think these are average community members who happened to have these wines and are giving their unbiased opinions.

    I'm not saying the reviewers are being dishonest about their opinions on the wine, but woot has put them and itself in a bad position with this practice.

    I like this website (obviously, I've been using in since 2009) and would like to continue to use it, but this lack of transparency is unacceptable to me.

    For you to essentially say "you haven't been around long enough to understand" and "I can't talk about it" makes me wonder if you're missing my point entirely.

    monticellovineyards


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards

    Thanks for the detailed comments.

    And thanks for being a patron at the winery!

    What strikes me is 'seemed a little tight' - How about that for a 15 year-old wine!

    Tells me there are more years to come, quite a few I would think for those that enjoy cellared wines.

    Patient decanting or allowing the wine to open has obviously been rewarding for your tastes.

    Glad you enjoyed!

    monticellovineyards


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards

    Such a great description of the power of time and its affect on wine.

    The time in the bottle and the time in the glass.

    For some it might have been 15 min to optimal - for others 1 1/2 hrs.

    Glad you enjoyed it - more to come!

    monticellovineyards


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards
    Cesare wrote:Really like this winery. Was first introduced to them via Woot a few years ago and have since visited twice after the last two rpm tours. So I was very excited to find a bottle of this to try earlier.

    At first this was a little tight and need to be woken up from it's sleep. But a little air in the glass (no decanter) helped it come alive.
    Pretty aromatic nose with some nice bright cherry fruit and alcohol. Almost kind of a candy smell but not jammy. Hint of earthiness in the background.
    Tastes very different than it smells. Restrained, not too fruity, well integrated - smooth and silky. Medium bodied with good structure. Not disjointed in any way. Quite a bit of acid and great with food. No oak. Slightly hot at the back (but this blew off with time and air later). Decent finish, not great but not bad.

    After a few hours of being opened but kept corked it changed. The nose kept the cherry fruit but added some funky poopy pinot noir-ish type aroma and dropped the alcohol. Very interesting. Tasted as it did earlier just more together, no alcohol, better longer sweet finish.
    I kept half the bottle to try again tonight so we shall see if anything is different.

    This is a great price for a nice aged cab. Held up well all this time and still has life left in it. Not a typical modern Napa fruity oaky vanilla bomb so that makes sense.



    Thanks for the detailed comments.

    And thanks for being a patron at the winery!

    What strikes me is 'seemed a little tight' - How about that for a 15 year-old wine!

    Tells me there are more years to come, quite a few I would think for those that enjoy cellared wines.

    Patient decanting or allowing the wine to open has obviously been rewarding for your tastes.

    Glad you enjoyed!

    monticellovineyards


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards
    cortot20 wrote:I had one of these fall out of the sky and into my cellar.

    These are tonights notes.

    Cork broke in half despite careful extraction, it was on its way to crumbly but came out clean in two pieces. Heavy sediment on the cork and neck. Poured into decanter slowly fearing heavy sediment but found only fine sediment in the very bottom which was captured in the shoulder of the bottle.
    Wine was clear with a medium red rim and deep red core. Legs were very visible and defined by large drips that remained for some time.

    Initial glass was after 15 minutes in the decanter and seemed very closed, this surprised me since I figured that a 15 year old cab would show more initially. A swirl brought out some red fruit, leather and eucalyptus. I usually don't pick up much in the way of ancillary flavors but I found these to be quite prominent.
    On the tongue it's definitely medium bodied, this is not a big napa cab. At least not at this stage in its life. The wine is ultra smooth, not a jagged edge on it, my wife remarked that she would drink it and she really dislikes red wine. The finish is short and somewhat unremarkable.
    After an hour later and with only a 1/3 glass left this wine seemed to explode with fruit. It really opened up and started to show dark cherries and raspberries. It became a completely different animal. I had two separate people experience this and so it confirms that this wine needs about an hour of air to get the full potential this wine has to offer. I would have loved to see where it was headed but an hour and half post pop it was all gone.

    Initially this wine was a disappointment to me, I had never had this winery's cab in its youth so I didn't know what to expect but found it a pleasure to drink due to its smoothness but rather unremarkable. But the unexpected explosion of fruit makes this not only much more enjoyable but also much more interesting. The finish also improved remarkably with time.

    I really have no idea how to price a bottle with this much age from a winery I have never heard of but I would happily pay $25-30 a bottle for it. I am a cheapskate though.



    Thanks for the detailed comments.

    And thanks for being a patron at the winery!

    What strikes me is 'seemed a little tight' - How about that for a 15 year-old wine!

    Tells me there are more years to come, quite a few I would think for those that enjoy cellared wines.

    Patient decanting or allowing the wine to open has obviously been rewarding for your tastes.

    Glad you enjoyed!

    monticellovineyards


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages monticellovineyards
    joelsisk wrote:Had this a few days ago.

    Sight
    brick red with just a hint of orange at the edges

    upon pop and pour, some significant chunks of sediment up by the cork

    Smell
    very light, some dust, some cigar box/cedar

    taste
    initial pop and pour was light sour cherry with not much going on. After a few minutes, opens up with some additional cigar box/cedar notes, and after 30 mins some of the tannins still show. Good acidity still. Some darker notes start to show as it rests. Complimented the pot roast (made with a sunce' merlot), helped cut through some of the greasy goodness.

    finish
    started fairly quick, after a bit of glass time, lasted a bit longer.

    Overall

    A nice aged cab. Possibly a bit over the hill, but still a showing of tannins after 10 minutes in the glass. Certainly enjoyable, but probably not much left in it. I didn't read the review from the initial 81 Wine Spectator score upon release, but would be good to take a flyer even just to experience some of the flavor profiles that a 15 year old Napa Cab (from an "average" year) may express.


    SWMBO - It had the big bold flavors that I like. (she likes petite sirah and cab franc) It went REALLY well with the meat. It did not dry my mouth out the way some reds do. tasted like a "real" cab. not a blend. A strong, meaty red wine I really enjoyed it and would recommend it.

    FIL - not too dry (he doesn't like "very dry reds"). nice, good, got better after a bit of time (10 mins in glass)


    ETA: I did not notice the huge change after an hour. I noticed a significant change after 10-20 mins of glass time (in reidel sommelier bordeaux). Was mostly the same 30-40 mins later.



    I think you make a good point about the opportunity to taste older wines just for the experience.

    In the case of our wines you can taste wines made from our same three Cabernet Vineyards whether you taste - 1989, 1999 or 2009!

    Same Vineyards - Same Family

    jhkey


    quality posts: 51 Private Messages jhkey
    shencken wrote:According to my account history,... makes me wonder if you're missing my point entirely.



    Let me boil it down for you...

    Option 1: A wine is available on woot and no one has tasted it.

    Option 2: A wine is available on woot, a few folks have tasted it and they provide thoughtful notes.

    If you prefer option 1, that's your decision, but the rest of us find option 2 to be much, much better.

    "I double the doctor's recommendation of a glass and a half of wine a day and even treble it with a friend."
    - Thomas Jefferson (CT)

    p2002


    quality posts: 8 Private Messages p2002
    shencken wrote:According to my account history, I've been a member since 2009 and have participated in over 25 woots. But, I don't think that my history has anything to do with whether a wine-seller, that has a forum with the appearance of being community driven, should be disclosing its policy on providing free bottles to reviewers.

    For the record, I am familiar with the rat program (the details of which also were not very well disclosed), and I am also familiar with the well-disclosed Amazon Vine program.

    You can say "what about RP or wine magazine X?" and "of course reviewers received free bottles - everyone knows that" but someone coming to this website for the first time may think these are average community members who happened to have these wines and are giving their unbiased opinions.

    I'm not saying the reviewers are being dishonest about their opinions on the wine, but woot has put them and itself in a bad position with this practice.

    I like this website (obviously, I've been using in since 2009) and would like to continue to use it, but this lack of transparency is unacceptable to me.

    For you to essentially say "you haven't been around long enough to understand" and "I can't talk about it" makes me wonder if you're missing my point entirely.



    Yeah, I read your comments in a similar manner. I certainly agree with your right to your opinion. For that reason WD's response just strikes me, and I am minimizing my phrasing here, as harsh.
    The threat to leave however, is also harsh. There are no means to repair a relationship to an absent customer, when attempting to impact change, one has to leave the arena open to hope.
    For the record, I am fairly firm I hold significant WW Hx to form an opinion.

    kylemittskus


    quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
    shencken wrote:According to my account history, I've been a member since 2009 and have participated in over 25 woots. But, I don't think that my history has anything to do with whether a wine-seller, that has a forum with the appearance of being community driven, should be disclosing its policy on providing free bottles to reviewers.

    For the record, I am familiar with the rat program (the details of which also were not very well disclosed), and I am also familiar with the well-disclosed Amazon Vine program.

    You can say "what about RP or wine magazine X?" and "of course reviewers received free bottles - everyone knows that" but someone coming to this website for the first time may think these are average community members who happened to have these wines and are giving their unbiased opinions.

    I'm not saying the reviewers are being dishonest about their opinions on the wine, but woot has put them and itself in a bad position with this practice.

    I like this website (obviously, I've been using in since 2009) and would like to continue to use it, but this lack of transparency is unacceptable to me.

    For you to essentially say "you haven't been around long enough to understand" and "I can't talk about it" makes me wonder if you're missing my point entirely.



    Does it have to be me?

    Get over yourself! Are you a first time visitor to this site? No? So that doesn't apply to you, but I'm sure those people really appreciate your concern.

    If you don't like the reviews, ignore them. If you don't like WD's business model, start your own and call it "complain.about.things.that.don't.really.affect.me.woot.com." You obviously ignored or didn't read my PM to you. I think we're all missing your point; you want WD to tell you everything about what he does and why because you only give your patronage to companies that are completely transparent? I'm guessing that you like the following companies a lot then: uh... I can't think of any.

    Either deal with what we have (reviews) or don't. But stop soapboxing poetic about how you need the truth or I'll quote Jack Nicholson.

    "If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

    "Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

    kylemittskus


    quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus

    Chris: I apologize about the thread hijack. I can guarantee you that your active participation on this thread (like you've already been doing) and honest answers to questions (like you've been answering) will both increase your sales and gain the respect of most here (can't win 'em all, apparently). Thanks for jumping in!

    "If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

    "Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

    shencken


    quality posts: 0 Private Messages shencken
    jhkey wrote:Let me boil it down for you...

    Option 1: A wine is available on woot and no one has tasted it.

    Option 2: A wine is available on woot, a few folks have tasted it and they provide thoughtful notes.

    If you prefer option 1, that's your decision, but the rest of us find option 2 to be much, much better.



    I do not accept your false dichotomy. I would prefer option three, where wines are reviewed in a transparent system.

    Also, I do not understand why (1) you think you speak for everyone else on this website ("the rest of us") and (2) why you wouldn't also prefer a transparent system.

    chipgreen


    quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen

    I'd prefer my girlfriend to look like Kate Upton yet I am happy and satisfied that she is attractive in her own right and it beats the heck out of not having a girlfriend at all.

    joelsisk


    quality posts: 7 Private Messages joelsisk
    cmaldoon wrote:I too appreciate the reviews. I just wish that someone opened the bottle, poured half a glass, and let everything sit for an hour.

    Many of the reviews on recent wines have come from Wooters at a tasting event in the SF area that Neil attended and brought some upcoming bottles ( the Terra Bella for one).

    If one is worried about the impartiality of reviews, look at the recent Michigan reds thread.

    Also if there is any bias in the reviews it is more that most of us are inclined to like wine and therefore unless a wine is truly awful, we are unlikely to be negative. It's all about reading into a review. I would take most of today's reviews as "decent" or "decent+". Not glowing, but likely worthwhile if you like aged napa cabs.

    The best way to tell if a reviewer liked it is if they bought it ( like me shelling out $35/bottle for that terra bella)



    FWIW, I did have it in the glass for over an hour... just didn't find any significant changes (good or bad) after the first 20 mins. Which is probably a good indication that it will hold up for another couple years.

    Besides, it went really well with the dinner, and I couldn't be expected to NOT drink an enjoyable wine, right?

    cmaldoon


    quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
    joelsisk wrote:FWIW, I did have it in the glass for over an hour... just didn't find any significant changes (good or bad) after the first 20 mins. Which is probably a good indication that it will hold up for another couple years.

    Besides, it went really well with the dinner, and I couldn't be expected to NOT drink an enjoyable wine, right?



    Ok, fair enough. And the way you consumed it probably matches more consumers than how I described.

    2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
    Last purchase: 5/3/14

    2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
    My Cellar

    shencken


    quality posts: 0 Private Messages shencken

    I have found another section of this forum that is more appropriate for my request for more transparency in the review system (Community→World of Woot Wine). Sorry for the thread hijack.

    I do have to say I'm really disappointed by the hostility in the responses I received.

    MarkDaSpark


    quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
    shencken wrote:I do not accept your false dichotomy. I would prefer option three, where wines are reviewed in a transparent system.

    Also, I do not understand why (1) you think you speak for everyone else on this website ("the rest of us") and (2) why you wouldn't also prefer a transparent system.




    Let's put it a simpler way. Would you like to hear other Wooters thoughts on a wine or not? It's one or the other.

    Just accept that fact, and go with the flow. Attend a local WW gathering, and you might find a potential upcoming wine. Or not. Plus you might get to meet and talk with fellow Wooters.


    And for the record, I don't believe I've received any "free" wine from Woot for a winery that I'm in a wine club. And I don't think anyone else has either, that they haven't said in their review.



    And I think we've taken enough away from the wine. Create a thread if you feel the need to discuss this anymore.


    But let's get back to the wine!


    Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
    *This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

    Winedavid39


    quality posts: 193 Private Messages Winedavid39

    Guest Blogger

    shencken wrote:I do not accept your false dichotomy. I would prefer option three, where wines are reviewed in a transparent system.

    Also, I do not understand why (1) you think you speak for everyone else on this website ("the rest of us") and (2) why you wouldn't also prefer a transparent system.



    yea, sorry for my economy of words this morning. in hindsight it came across as curt. As one can tell i'm of the belief some subjects are better left alone.

    i meant no disrespect and we appreciate your business.

    what you are referring to are organic events driven by wineries that have a longing for the old ways. i'm personally very happy about it.

    It will not by design become official or transparent. it is not driven nor connected to wine.woot. and it may just go away.

    thanks,


    monticellowinemaker


    quality posts: 4 Private Messages monticellowinemaker
    kylemittskus wrote:Chris: I apologize about the thread hijack. I can guarantee you that your active participation on this thread (like you've already been doing) and honest answers to questions (like you've been answering) will both increase your sales and gain the respect of most here (can't win 'em all, apparently). Thanks for jumping in!



    No worries. We've been in the business for a long time and have seen lots of changes in the way that wine is discussed. I like the open forum. We are confident and proud of what we're doing at the winery, and hopefully that comes through in our interactions. The open forums really give us a chance to hear what is important to consumers, in an unfiltered format. I think its good overall.

    Cheers,
    Chris Corley

    tdedek


    quality posts: 4 Private Messages tdedek
    hinrgman wrote:I see this will ship to NJ. Usually not the case for Wine.Woot vendors.



    I frequent the W.W site daily and find that most deals ship to us in NJ. There are, of course, exceptions. A few that I really like too - no shipping to NJ for Scott Harvey, Sebastiani, and Kent Rasmussen to name a few.

    But for the most part, check often because the majority of WW deals ship to us.

    monticellowinemaker


    quality posts: 4 Private Messages monticellowinemaker
    joelsisk wrote:FWIW, I did have it in the glass for over an hour... just didn't find any significant changes (good or bad) after the first 20 mins. Which is probably a good indication that it will hold up for another couple years.

    Besides, it went really well with the dinner, and I couldn't be expected to NOT drink an enjoyable wine, right?



    I also find it difficult to let any enjoyable wine go 'undrunk' (undrinken, not drank, etc.)!

    Cheers,
    Chris Corley

    chipgreen


    quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
    monticellowinemaker wrote:No worries. We've been in the business for a long time and have seen lots of changes in the way that wine is discussed. I like the open forum. We are confident and proud of what we're doing at the winery, and hopefully that comes through in our interactions. The open forums really give us a chance to hear what is important to consumers, in an unfiltered format. I think its good overall.

    Cheers,
    Chris Corley

    I'm still getting acquainted with your juice but I absolutely love your Cab Franc and am sitting on an '05 Corley Reserve Cab Sauv that I look forward to drinking.

    Do you believe that wines go through a "dumb" phase and are there any general guidelines to follow in that regard? I have heard some people say that good Cab Sauvs may be in such a phase between approximately 5-10 years in the bottle.

    funbunny


    quality posts: 25 Private Messages funbunny
    monticellovineyards wrote:
    The 1998 Vintage often draws attention, especially in comparison to the 1997. For my part, I have always thought only ½ the story was told back then by the media. Yes, the 1997 was a superior drinking vintage in the early years with its rich, ripe fruit from all the glorious sunshine. The other side of that ‘coin’ is that the 1998 vintage was always more likely to stand the test of time and be the better drinking vintage in the years to come.



    Thanks to both you and Chris for giving us some background on your wine and the vintage dilemma or lack there off.
    Just for my own curiosity, do either you or Chris recall your suggested cellaring or ideal drinking window for the this wine when it was released? Where did you think this vintage was going to be in 10 to 15+ years despite the season's problems? I was wondering if it is fairing as well or better than you anticipated.

    The 97 vs 98 growing conditions and the initial accolades and criticism makes me wonder if I need to make adjustments to my cellar for other vintages with some of the same scenarios, as the article you referenced pointed out for 2011 and 2012.

    "Wine is sunshine held together by water" - Galileo Galilei

    rjquillin


    quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin

    Really appreciate Chris and the winery chiming in with additional info, to supplement the TN's we've had today.

    I was a bit hesitant due to the vintage.
    I like older cabs.
    I'm really trying to enforce my SIWBM, as D&D is this weekend.
    I've failed miserably.
    Looking forward to the arrival of these.

    If these are anything like the Ardente sets, I'm going to be quite *!$$'d I didn't get more.

    CT

    edlada


    quality posts: 3 Private Messages edlada

    I am so excited, I popped my wine.woot! cherry!

    Speed to First Woot:
    0m 22.229s
    First Sucker:
    MarkDaSpark
    Last Wooter to Woot:
    edlada
    Last Purchase:
    3 minutes ago

    I have been following wine.woot since its inception but since I have lived out of the US for the last 16 years, I never was able to order wine. I am going to visit my daughter in May so I ordered this and sent it to her place so we will enjoy it when I get there. I have access to plenty of good, well aged wine here but very little experience with Cali Cab let alone an old one so I thought this would be nice to try. Then I read some of the comments
    (/sarcasm/ you know, those "biased" reviewers //sarcasm//) and I was on the fence. Then I read Neil's and the winery's posts and decided to hit the big yellow button. Now I just have to keep my daughter from quaffing them until I get there. My first wine.woot!, I hope it will be a nice one. Now that I have experienced the thrill of ordering wine on the internet, maybe I'll order more if any more old wine shows up. I'll only be there a couple of weeks so I don't have time to wait for the '10s and '11s to age properly. A dozen or so bottles should be enough for 2 weeks.

    NB: One of the few Napa Cabs I have drunk was a 1985 Clos DuVal. My friend and I drank it in our hotel room prior to an Ozzie Osbourne concert in Germany last year. This wine (from a different vintage) was featured in the famous Judgement of Paris, as well as the 10th and 30th anniversary tastings. Very nice wine!

    My dogs like me, that is important.

    sphervey


    quality posts: 35 Private Messages sphervey
    shencken wrote:I have found another section of this forum that is more appropriate for my request for more transparency in the review system (Community→World of Woot Wine). Sorry for the thread hijack.

    I do have to say I'm really disappointed by the hostility in the responses I received.



    The reason many of us don't post even after buying wine and tasting it is that we feel a bit intimidated by our lack of knowledge and ability to critique a wine in a "quality post" manner. I didn't realize people received free wine until a couple of weeks ago and it has cooled my hand in terms of purchasing until I do further research outside of the Woot forum. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and should not be verbally picked on because of it. I appreciate what you were saying and did not take offense at it. I feel the reviewers are giving honest assessments as well. Perhaps if the wine is given out there should be a symbol or notice like Amazon Vine has. Winery participation is always appreciated. Those of us that live in "the Boonies" don't have gatherings to go to and I do sometimes miss living in California. I would have replied in the World of Woot Wine but couldn't find the thread. Anyway, I just wanted you to know everyone isn't hostile. As another poster said, we'd all like to get in on a bottle now and then. I think I've bought enough bottles to merit a crack at it - are you listening, Wine David???????????? I promise full disclosure in the review!!!!