cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

Nor Cal 1999 Vintage Classified Bordeaux tasting

Here's the plan:
We (Myself and/or Neil) will be picking up 4-8 bottles of 2nd Cru level Bordeaux either right, left, or both banks from the 1999 vintage. (the group is leaning toward both or right at the moment though I favor right personally)

On 6/1, in the afternoon (time TBD) we will all meet at Neil's place in Sonoma. The wines will be opened and decanted. I will have researched the history of both the vintage and the selected chateaus and will share with everyone. We will taste as the bottles open and as a simple meal (with non-steak options included) is prepared and enjoyed. We'll compare notes the whole way.

Firm commitments will be required by some date in late April yet to be determined.

I will keep the lists below updated:

In (as in committed to $80-100 per person unless we move the date):
1) CMaldoon
2) NeilFindsWine
3) AJRod27


Would like to Attend (would like to go and are ready to commit the $ if the date works):
1) BrightGreen (CMaldoon+1)
2) CAGirl
3) CAGirl +1 (Still should resolve alternate options to make sure this works for both of you)
4) Trifecta
5) Trifecta+1
6) BSevern


Interested (Still figuring it out)
1) RJQuillin
2) Klezman
3) Tytiger58 (would your +1 be there too?)


Regrets (Out):



2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl

I'm in. Hubby's probably out though. And unfortunately I don't have the place for it either.

ajrod27


quality posts: 41 Private Messages ajrod27

Sounds like an excellent treat, post tax-return season!

rjquillin


quality posts: 173 Private Messages rjquillin
cmaldoon wrote:Let me know what you think and if you'd be interested. No date is set nor a place (my place is not the ideal setting for such a fine event sadly)

Something of this nature may require a visit from the southern extreme. What small (2000+ feet) or larger airport might you be close to?

CT

klezman


quality posts: 122 Private Messages klezman
rjquillin wrote:Something of this nature may require a visit from the southern extreme. What small (2000+ feet) or larger airport might you be close to?



I agree with you.
SFO or SJC. Or if you want small small, there's always Palo Alto. If you want very large you could try Moffett Field.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

rjquillin


quality posts: 173 Private Messages rjquillin
klezman wrote:I agree with you.
SFO or SJC. Or if you want small small, there's always Palo Alto. If you want very large you could try Moffett Field.

SFO and SJC are pretty hostile to genav. I used to, late 70's, fly into both frequently. Last time into SJC the ramp fee was over $50 if you didn't fuel, and at their prices you didn't want more than about 5G. Fuel at PAO currently $6.40/G, SJC $7.47. Also nearby would be San Carlos, $5.79, Hayward, Livermore, Reid-Hillview, and others. North bay has Gnoss, Petaluma, Sonoma Sky Park and Sonoma Valley. Lot's of choices, depending on where we're going to be. It's what's close and convenient that counts. And with prior permission, Moffett has in the past accommodated.

CT

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

As discussed, doing this in Sonoma isn't out of the question. Also, I think if we're careful, and choose the right vintage and growth, and get 7-8 people, we can keep costs under $100 each. When we did it two years ago, it was $80 a piece.

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

klezman


quality posts: 122 Private Messages klezman
neilfindswine wrote:As discussed, doing this in Sonoma isn't out of the question. Also, I think if we're careful, and choose the right vintage and growth, and get 7-8 people, we can keep costs under $100 each. When we did it two years ago, it was $80 a piece.



Dang. That's tempting. Going to be up there March 9-11...we should meet up! We're going to be partying it up near Windsor that weekend. Going to have a few Seattle wineaux with us.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

klezman wrote:Dang. That's tempting. Going to be up there March 9-11...we should meet up! We're going to be partying it up near Windsor that weekend. Going to have a few Seattle wineaux with us.



Let me know... I have some family duties, but should be able to break away for a glass or 3...

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

And after spending just a short bit of time researching (and talking to a bordeaux buddy down South). 1999 seems to be a good vintage to target. We could do all 2nd growth, one from each commune.

Again, minimal research, but possibilities:

Margaux: Rauzan-Segla
St. Julien: Leoville-Poyferre
Paulillac: Pichon Baron
St. Estephe: Chateau Montrose

All four bottles shipped/w tax around $400-$425. Adding a couple of steaks, some arugula and parmesan, with 6 people it's still at or under $80 a person.

Depending on how many people are interested, we'd double up on bottles, but an affordable endeavor methinks...

Thoughts?

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
neilfindswine wrote:And after spending just a short bit of time researching (and talking to a bordeaux buddy down South). 1999 seems to be a good vintage to target. We could do all 2nd growth, one from each commune.

Again, minimal research, but possibilities:

Margaux: Rauzan-Segla
St. Julien: Leoville-Poyferre
Paulillac: Pichon Baron
St. Estephe: Chateau Montrose

All four bottles shipped/w tax around $400-$425. Adding a couple of steaks, some arugula and parmesan, with 6 people it's still at or under $80 a person.

Depending on how many people are interested, we'd double up on bottles, but an affordable endeavor methinks...

Thoughts?



Sounds like a very doable cost and I like the age, old enough to likely be past any awkward phase but still young enough to have a good balance between bottle and fruit notes.

How'd you come up with the list of chateaus? What qualifies one over another in your mind?
(Not interrogating, just trying to learn the balance between the 2nd growths)

Regardless, the misses and I will take 2 of these seats. I'll also vollunteer to do a fair amount of the initial outlay.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl

I'm in. Hubby might just be in for steaks and food. Let me know what that would cost.

tytiger58


quality posts: 74 Private Messages tytiger58

If I was anywhere within 200 miles I would be there just for the Rauzan-Ségla, Margaux! not to mention all the others.

What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch? ~ W. C. Fields

“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used” Hunter S Thompson




neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

cmaldoon wrote:Sounds like a very doable cost and I like the age, old enough to likely be past any awkward phase but still young enough to have a good balance between bottle and fruit notes.

How'd you come up with the list of chateaus? What qualifies one over another in your mind?
(Not interrogating, just trying to learn the balance between the 2nd growths)

Regardless, the misses and I will take 2 of these seats. I'll also vollunteer to do a fair amount of the initial outlay.



Honestly, no thought put into it other than what was available on WineSearcher. In some cases (Paulliac) no difference in cost between Chateaus (Lalande and Baron pretty much the same). In other cases, (St. Julien) there was more of a spread between wines.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge might insist on quality difference between Chateau's in the same Cru, and I'm open to discussing, but I'd be okay with 'going with the best price we can find' in order to keep costs down.

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta

We might be up for this.

After being pressured by Neil after DnD, we could be up for this if the dates work out.

We would prefer right bank and and will have to come up with a steak alternative. I will track this thread and see what date you guys settle on. Sounds like a very good learning experience. Why so many spring weddings?

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
trifecta wrote:We might be up for this.

After being pressured by Neil after DnD, we could be up for this if the dates work out.

We would prefer right bank and and will have to come up with a steak alternative. I will track this thread and see what date you guys settle on. Sounds like a very good learning experience. Why so many spring weddings?



SWMBO Would also require a steak alternative.

What drives the wish for Merlot based wines? Remember that the wines we are talking about have had 14 years to mature. They should be balanced and not incredibly Tanic. On the other hand I am actually intrigued at some point in doing both of these Tastings.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta
cmaldoon wrote:SWMBO Would also require a steak alternative.

What drives the wish for Merlot based wines? Remember that the wines we are talking about have had 14 years to mature. They should be balanced and not incredibly Tanic. On the other hand I am actually intrigued at some point in doing both of these Tastings.



Our palates lean heavily toward old world style merlot. We aren't opposed to high tannin wines (we are psiloveyou members), but rather prefer the flavor profile. I know this can sound a bit crazy in the cultish California Cabernet atmosphere we are in.

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl

Someone enlighten me. Don't want to google it since I don't have a computer at home. 1st growth? 2nd growth? What do these terms mean? Not at all familiar with Bordeaux wines at all and am trying to learn. I really gotta pick up some reading material on this.

Also, I'm more of a cab person but would be interested in doing both banks eventually.

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta
CAGrl wrote:Someone enlighten me. Don't want to google it since I don't have a computer at home. 1st growth? 2nd growth? What do these terms mean? Not at all familiar with Bordeaux wines at all and am trying to learn. I really gotta pick up some reading material on this.

Also, I'm more of a cab person but would be interested in doing both banks eventually.



They are classifications that are somewhat complex in their derivation and I don't fully understand them either. Basically 1st growth is best on the left bank and so on. Grand Cru is best on the right bank and so on. Same sort of idea for Burgundy. Those marking on the bottle are legally controlled as well.

I am sure someone can provide a much better and lengthy explanation, but that is the gist.

ajrod27


quality posts: 41 Private Messages ajrod27

Any thoughts on a date at this point?

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

ajrod27 wrote:Any thoughts on a date at this point?



I'm thinking after tax time.. late April?

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

klezman


quality posts: 122 Private Messages klezman
CAGrl wrote:Someone enlighten me. Don't want to google it since I don't have a computer at home. 1st growth? 2nd growth? What do these terms mean? Not at all familiar with Bordeaux wines at all and am trying to learn. I really gotta pick up some reading material on this.

Also, I'm more of a cab person but would be interested in doing both banks eventually.



Left Bank is predominantly Cab Sauv, and they held a "classification" in 1855 to encode which were the best chateaux. The best were called Premier Cru (1er Cru -> First Growth) and so on down to Fifth Growth. There were originally 4 in the 1er Cru category, but they added Mouton Rothschild in 1973. You get the point. Since that system was fixed in place in 1855 and unaltered since then (Mouton notwithstanding) the Medoc has also instituted the Cru Bourgeois to mention the higher quality wines. Some feel the higher level Crus Bourgeois are equal in quality to the lower level classified growths. Oh yeah...the 1855 classification was based on market price, nothing more.

Then you've got the right bank, predominantly Merlot, and a few different classification schemes. Graves has one level of classification - Cru Classee. Saint-Emilion has a regularly-updated list of Grands Crus (63) and Premiers Grands Crus (18).

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

klezman


quality posts: 122 Private Messages klezman
trifecta wrote:They are classifications that are somewhat complex in their derivation and I don't fully understand them either. Basically 1st growth is best on the left bank and so on. Grand Cru is best on the right bank and so on. Same sort of idea for Burgundy. Those marking on the bottle are legally controlled as well.

I am sure someone can provide a much better and lengthy explanation, but that is the gist.



Big difference between Bordeaux and Burgundy is that the former classifies Chateaux while the latter classifies vineyards.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl
klezman wrote:Left Bank is predominantly Cab Sauv, and they held a "classification" in 1855 to encode which were the best chateaux. The best were called Premier Cru (1er Cru -> First Growth) and so on down to Fifth Growth. There were originally 4 in the 1er Cru category, but they added Mouton Rothschild in 1973. You get the point. Since that system was fixed in place in 1855 and unaltered since then (Mouton notwithstanding) the Medoc has also instituted the Cru Bourgeois to mention the higher quality wines. Some feel the higher level Crus Bourgeois are equal in quality to the lower level classified growths. Oh yeah...the 1855 classification was based on market price, nothing more.

Then you've got the right bank, predominantly Merlot, and a few different classification schemes. Graves has one level of classification - Cru Classee. Saint-Emilion has a regularly-updated list of Grands Crus (63) and Premiers Grands Crus (18).


So does that mean within the Cru classification the Growth comes in? So 1 Cru has 1-5 growth and 2 Cru has 1-5 growth and so forth?

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
CAGrl wrote:So does that mean within the Cru classification the Growth comes in? So 1 Cru has 1-5 growth and 2 Cru has 1-5 growth and so forth?



No, cru=growth

Left bank Bordeaux has 5 crus, 1st-5th

Right bank Bordeaux has Premier Grand Cru A, Pemier Grand Cru B, and Grand cru

Burgundy has Grand Cru and Premier cru

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl
cmaldoon wrote:No, cru=growth

Left bank Bordeaux has 5 crus, 1st-5th

Right bank Bordeaux has Premier Grand Cru A, Pemier Grand Cru B, and Grand cru

Burgundy has Grand Cru and Premier cru


Thanks! That's what I thought but then I got so confused.

klezman


quality posts: 122 Private Messages klezman
CAGrl wrote:Thanks! That's what I thought but then I got so confused.



Sorry...didn't mean to add confusion!

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

bsevern


quality posts: 109 Private Messages bsevern

I'd be down for this depending on the date.

It should be an interesting educational experience

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

Wine Bid Currently has zero 2nd cru Bordeaux.

JJ Buckley has Chateau Montrose (from the Chateau) and Chateau Longueville-Baron (secondary market) for $100 each right now which could put us half way there. I think I'll wait to see what winebid puts up this coming Sunday.

I also sat down yesterday to figure out the best bets for both left and right bank wines based on average prices and an agglomeration of scores (for all they are worth) I'll have to post my target picks after I get home.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta

Neil might have a hookup or two for sourcing some of those harder to find bottles.

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

For left bank:
Margaux- Durfort-Vivens or Brane-Cantenac ( Rauzan-Ségla may be best but comes at a $30 premium)
St Julien- Gruaud-Larose followed by the 2 non-cases Leovilles

Pauliac is a tossup between the 2 Pichons as mentioned before

St estephe- Chateau Montrose


Right Bank:

Top 5 Values
Pavie-Macquin
La Gaffeliere
Fourtet
Canon-la-Gaffeliere
Beau-Sejour Becot

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

Ok, I have identified retail places to purchase Montrose (ex chateau)
Leoville Barton (likely ex chateau)
Pichon Baron ( likely secondary)

For an after shipping and tax total of $310

This leaves $170 in the budget for a Margaux wine yet to be identified and food if we assume 6 people at $80 a head.

Does this sound like a good starting point? If I get several yeas then ill pull the trigger and this event will truly be on the way.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

edlada


quality posts: 5 Private Messages edlada
cmaldoon wrote:Ok, I have identified retail places to purchase Montrose (ex chateau)
Leoville Barton (likely ex chateau)
Pichon Baron ( likely secondary)

For an after shipping and tax total of $310

This leaves $170 in the budget for a Margaux wine yet to be identified and food if we assume 6 people at $80 a head.

Does this sound like a good starting point? If I get several yeas then ill pull the trigger and this event will truly be on the way.



FWIW, I have had a bottle or two of the Leoville Barton, a '99, it was quite nice. Mostly Cab with
20 % Merlot and 8% Cabernet Franc, drinks well above its price. Certainly a fine example of a Bordeaux wine.

The Barton is the same Barton family of Barton & Guestier fame, a wine merchant that has delivered quality wines for couple of hundred years.

A good Margaux value is Chateau Palmer (3rd growth), another wine that drinks far above its price. Something about those non-French Chateau names that drives the price down but not the quality.

My dogs like me, that is important.

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

Bumping this with some more research; adding to the initial thought (and cmaldoon has ideas above as well)

I'm thinking 99 Vintage, though I"m told 01 and 04 could work for our purposes (the Left Bank tasting I did was 04)

Left Bank: I'm thinking all 2nd growth, one from each commune.

I looked up these:

Margaux: Rauzan-Segla
St. Julien: Leoville-Poyferre
Paulillac: Pichon Baron
St. Estephe: Chateau Montrose

All four bottles shipped/w tax around $400-$425. Adding a couple of steaks, (and a non red meat option for some) arugula and parmesan, with 6 people it's still at or under $80 a person.

RIGHT BANK: We should pick 2 Pomerol and 2 Saint-Emilion

Pomerol- Not Classified, but if we go with reputable houses- possibilities:
Chateau l'Evangile
Ch. Gazin
Chateau L'Eglise-Clinet

Saint-Emilion, Classe B possibilities:
Chateau Pavie Macquin
Chateau Belair-Monange
Chateau Troplong Mondot
Chateau Canon La Gaffeliere
Chateau Figeac
Chateau de Valandraud
Heritiers Duffau-Lagarrosse Chateau Beausejour

We might spend a few more dollars, but I'm still confident it will be under $100 a person, assuming 6 people. If we had 12 interested, we could double up OR.... WE COULD DO BOTH LEFT AND RIGHT BANK (with slightly smaller tastes of each wine).

I can host in my back yard in Sonoma, and I'm thinking end of April/beginning of May (after taxes!)

SO: First decision- left bank or right? Once we decide, then we can hone in on wines...

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

ajrod27


quality posts: 41 Private Messages ajrod27
neilfindswine wrote:If we had 12 interested, we could double up OR.... WE COULD DO BOTH LEFT AND RIGHT BANK (with slightly smaller tastes of each wine).

I can host in my back yard in Sonoma, and I'm thinking end of April/beginning of May (after taxes!)

SO: First decision- left bank or right? Once we decide, then we can hone in on wines...



From my limited experience with French Bordeaux, I tend to lean towards right bank, but maybe that's because I've not had experience with quality left bank wines. I'm a huge Cabernet fan, so I'm willing to take a leap of faith and go with left bank. Either way will be a learning experience for me.

April and May are mostly open for me, with an exception of April 20th and May 27th.

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta
neilfindswine wrote:
I can host in my back yard in Sonoma, and I'm thinking end of April/beginning of May (after taxes!)

SO: First decision- left bank or right? Once we decide, then we can hone in on wines...



We are in if the dates work out. We can't do it 4/27 (wedding), 5/11 (wedding). So if others are ok with 4/20 (nice!) or 5/4 that would work.

Edit: We would lean towards right bank, but are cool with either.

Edit2: Looks like ajrod27 is busy on 4/20 (doing what huh???, one can only speculate given the date)

So will 5/4 work?

neilfindswine


quality posts: 170 Private Messages neilfindswine

Guest Blogger

I'm actually looking at my calendar, and I now realize I have some family commitments, so here are my ideal dates: April 13-14 (I know right before tax time), April 21, April 28, May 12 or May 25-26.

I report to winedavid39...
...I like getting PM's from wannabe rodents...

CAGrl


quality posts: 13 Private Messages CAGrl
neilfindswine wrote:I'm actually looking at my calendar, and I now realize I have some family commitments, so here are my ideal dates: April 13-14 (I know right before tax time), April 21, April 28, May 12 or May 25-26.


Okay. April 21 and 28 are our last choices since we have stuff to do on the 20th and 27th. Not sure if we could really be gone the whole weekend. But if those are the only dates available, then we can definitely work around it.

Isn't May 25-26 memorial day weekend? It works for us as we have no plans, but wasn't sure about the rest of the people.

trifecta


quality posts: 72 Private Messages trifecta
neilfindswine wrote:I'm actually looking at my calendar, and I now realize I have some family commitments, so here are my ideal dates: April 13-14 (I know right before tax time), April 21, April 28, May 12 or May 25-26.



Hmm... Our only day there that could work is April 13th, which may still change. Sundays are a no go. Thinking that maybe we should just back out of this one and wait for the next.

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon

Ok, I have updated the first post with the current thoughts and plans. Please post preferences for right, left, or both banks.

Also, please note that when we lock in a date and start buying the wines, we will need hard commitments. $80-100 whether you show up or not. Given that I know everyone on the list thus far I don't see that being a problem.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar