rjquillin wrote:Great to hear you soldiered thru and made it at a decent hour.
AM/PM should be made illegal.

I firmly believe that as we move away from an Agrarian society (even here in Nebraska) and energy is becoming cleaner and cheaper that we need to seriously rethink when we start our days. I wake up at 4:45 and come to work. That sucks.

Also, I Sparkey'd up there.

And, today I'm going to test the Hot Tub Time Machine Theory. I have a 32oz fountain energy drink at my desk. I then have 3 cans of concentrated energy drink in the fridge. I was in bed at 1, up at 4:40 and I'm an 8 hours kinda guy.

BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMISTRY!

Or I'll be glowing later. I just need to stay awake til 4, then I'll be home, youngest will be down for a nap and Dad can CRASH.

bhodilee wrote:I firmly believe that as we move away from an Agrarian society (even here in Nebraska) and energy is becoming cleaner and cheaper that we need to seriously rethink when we start our days. I wake up at 4:45 and come to work. That sucks.

that is beyond super sucky!!!!

bhodilee wrote:Also, I Sparkey'd up there.

And, today I'm going to test the Hot Tub Time Machine Theory. I have a 32oz fountain energy drink at my desk. I then have 3 cans of concentrated energy drink in the fridge. I was in bed at 1, up at 4:40 and I'm an 8 hours kinda guy.

BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMISTRY!

Or I'll be glowing later. I just need to stay awake til 4, then I'll be home, youngest will be down for a nap and Dad can CRASH.

or you end up in the E.R. cause your heart can't take all that crap!! Be careful!!

mommadeb1 wrote:or you end up in the E.R. cause your heart can't take all that crap!! Be careful!!

STRONG LIKE OX!

bhodilee wrote:STRONG LIKE OX!

Post election - Today we bring to you an amped up Bowtie. Amped up posting vs. drunk posting, which is more entertaining?

Good luck surviving the day.

bhodilee wrote:STRONG LIKE OX!

dumb like.....???????

mommadeb1 wrote:dumb like.....???????

OX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, grades & comments have been submitted! Just tried to help one of my colleagues who is having a problem with the program--comments are not showing for her!

bahwm wrote:And, grades & comments have been submitted! Just tried to help one of my colleagues who is having a problem with the program--comments are not showing for her!

yea!!

bhodilee wrote:OX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bhodilee wrote:STRONG LIKE OX!

Or, as my uncle used to say with a Polish accent, "Strong like Bull!" (Oh, his daughter is the one who lives in your state!)

bhodilee wrote:We have an HP 5500PS. What do you have? Turned out to be not so bad, but I did end up with a plastic clip I forgot to put back. Looks like a cable clip though, so no biggie.

I can't think of the brand/model but it does have four rollers which is nice. I thought I was being smart and loaded 2 36" and 2 18" rolls and set one to metric and the other to architectural in each size. But of course when 1 roller runs out and an extra roll can't be located within 6 inches of the plotter people start monkeying with the tray settings screw it all up and then come see me.

So I had a 2 day battle while paper was on order of people coming and asking me how to get the plotter working. 1/2 an hour later someone else would come along and tell me the same thing and then I would have to go over and switch it back to metric and vice versa until I have no hair left on me head........Laddie.

Hmmmmm....

Looks like Woot! has decided to stop calculating estimated tax and shipping into the price comparisons. The hover over description of the List Price has changed from:

"List Price is the original winery price, plus anticipated sales tax, plus what the winery would charge to ship it to you. It's mostly worthless, so we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum. You'll be a hero!"

to:

"List Price is the original sticker price, the MSRP, or our own best attempt to find the full price online. It’s mostly worthless, so we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum. You’ll be a hero!"

Did this just change back today, or have I not been paying attention for the past few days (which happens sometimes)?

karenhynes wrote:Hmmmmm....

Looks like Woot! has decided to stop calculating estimated tax and shipping into the price comparisons. The hover over description of the List Price has changed from:

"List Price is the original winery price, plus anticipated sales tax, plus what the winery would charge to ship it to you. It's mostly worthless, so we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum. You'll be a hero!"

to:

"List Price is the original sticker price, the MSRP, or our own best attempt to find the full price online. It’s mostly worthless, so we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum. You’ll be a hero!"

Did this just change back today, or have I not been paying attention for the past few days (which happens sometimes)?

Some trolls were whining about it, calling it deception on the wine threads over the weekend. Really? Just because they included Sales Tax and anticipated shipping?

So they probably decided to change it back to avoid feeding the trolls.

cortot20 wrote:I can't think of the brand/model but it does have four rollers which is nice. I thought I was being smart and loaded 2 36" and 2 18" rolls and set one to metric and the other to architectural in each size. But of course when 1 roller runs out and an extra roll can't be located within 6 inches of the plotter people start monkeying with the tray settings screw it all up and then come see me.

So I had a 2 day battle while paper was on order of people coming and asking me how to get the plotter working. 1/2 an hour later someone else would come along and tell me the same thing and then I would have to go over and switch it back to metric and vice versa until I have no hair left on me head........Laddie.

the drive belt on ours just crumbled. $800 service call or $130 in parts. Stupid me told the boss, well the part place I'd get it from sends a detailed "how to" on the procedure. Let's just get the part and save the taxpayers $670 dollars and do it ourselves. It'll take me all day, but my "labor" is a sunk cost anyway regardless of whether I do this or play with myself at my desk. (these were exact words, you wouldn't believe how badly the boss want's to be everyone's buddy)

Turns out, shoulda just paid the money, it wasn't fun. Plus we hardly use it, I don't even know why we have it. For the 20 grand we paid for it, we woudl have saved about 18 if we had just outsourced the printing. What do I know though.

I'm pretty sure the northeast is trying to give me signs that it wants me to leave. Drove from NH to NYC last night and what should have been a 4 1/2 hour commute turned into an 11 hour one. One thing for certain though, is that those living in New England can never make fun of how Californians drive in the rain. Because, they're even worse in the snow!

I made a paper airplane out of a 42x42 sheet of paper. Structural integrity was a bit of a problem. Now I'm a little back heavy, but overall, I'm pretty happy. My boss thinks it's pretty great, but told me to hide it from the board of directors

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, really?

x-post from deals thread:

For those interested in a new wine cooler, Costco has the Wine Enthusiast 170 bottle, 2 zone for $1200 SHIPPED. (300 off). Also some others on sale. Nearest comparable at wine enthusiast itself is $2000 for a 166 bottle...

MarkDaSpark wrote:Some trolls were whining about it, calling it deception on the wine threads over the weekend. Really? Just because they included Sales Tax and anticipated shipping?

So they probably decided to change it back to avoid feeding the trolls.

It was deceptive and unnecessary. They were simply trying to inflate their list price and therefore discount percentage without adding any real value to the consumer by including those numbers. They then tried to pass it off as being more "transparent" until they got called out on what it actually was.

North316 wrote:It was deceptive and unnecessary. They were simply trying to inflate their list price and therefore discount percentage without adding any real value to the consumer by including those numbers. They then tried to pass it off as being more "transparent" until they got called out on what it actually was.

Deceptive? Isn't what they are doing now more deceiving? Now they give you straight list and compare it to their price which includes tax and also part of the shipping cost? Now it is apples and oranges. People just complain less because it is biased low. I really thought that they were using reasonable numbers when they included a low tax and low shipping estimate.

I never cared about the discount percent in the first place though. It's about value not price.

cmaldoon wrote:Deceptive? Isn't what they are doing now more deceiving? Now they give you straight list and compare it to their price which includes tax and also part of the shipping cost? Now it is apples and oranges. People just complain less because it is biased low. I really thought that they were using reasonable numbers when they included a low tax and low shipping estimate.

I never cared about the discount percent in the first place though. It's about value not price.

I agree with all of this.

bhodilee wrote:ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, really?

Really. Cause it haz PS in it!!!

cmaldoon wrote:Deceptive? Isn't what they are doing now more deceiving? Now they give you straight list and compare it to their price which includes tax and also part of the shipping cost? Now it is apples and oranges. People just complain less because it is biased low. I really thought that they were using reasonable numbers when they included a low tax and low shipping estimate.

I never cared about the discount percent in the first place though. It's about value not price.

I guess it really depends on how you are looking at it.

Yes it was a good comparison of what the wine would cost me to purchase from woot v. what it would cost me to have shipped directly from the winery. Personally, that comparison means nothing to me because I NEVER purchase directly from any winery because shipping is outrageous to Ohio, AND I don't pay retail prices.


If woot wants to roll their taxes and a piece of shipping costs into their price and not tell me how much those amounts are, then I don't care to factor those into my equation. To me, woot's price is $X plus $5 shipping. Price per bottle being # bottles / X. the comparison I care to see is woot's price per bottle compared to what the price would be if I walked in the winery or if the wine were available locally (since I do not purchase directly from the winery). Until woot wants to disclose true shipping cost and true taxes eaten, I will also consider woot's shipping to be $5, so the remainder of the comparison is the cost I am saving by ordering through woot.

North316 wrote:It was deceptive and unnecessary. They were simply trying to inflate their list price and therefore discount percentage without adding any real value to the consumer by including those numbers. They then tried to pass it off as being more "transparent" until they got called out on what it actually was.

What cmaldoon & kyle said.

Basically, it was MORE apples to apples. Because when we buy wine, whether at the Winery or in a Store, or Online, we are going to be paying Sales Tax AND Shipping.

People always leave those costs out, when part of the VALUE of Wine.Woot is in the $5 shipping.

North316 wrote:I guess it really depends on how you are looking at it.

Yes it was a good comparison of what the wine would cost me to purchase from woot v. what it would cost me to have shipped directly from the winery. Personally, that comparison means nothing to me because I NEVER purchase directly from any winery because shipping is outrageous to Ohio, AND I don't pay retail prices.


If woot wants to roll their taxes and a piece of shipping costs into their price and not tell me how much those amounts are, then I don't care to factor those into my equation. To me, woot's price is $X plus $5 shipping. Price per bottle being # bottles / X. the comparison I care to see is woot's price per bottle compared to what the price would be if I walked in the winery or if the wine were available locally (since I do not purchase directly from the winery). Until woot wants to disclose true shipping cost and true taxes eaten, I will also consider woot's shipping to be $5, so the remainder of the comparison is the cost I am saving by ordering through woot.

Dude! That's always been the way WW has done pricing. It's just now they were trying to show the value, when the Trolls keep posting about how prices aren't so good.


We've always had to factor in what it would cost us to buy the wine on our own. But the Maroons usually forget to factor in the cost of Sales Tax, Shipping or Cost of Gas into the equation.


So here's the following scenerios:

1) Buy from the Winery: Retail, Plus tax Plus shipping

2) Buy local from Wine Shop/etc.: Local price Plus tax Plus Gas (you have to drive there, right?)

3) Buy online: Online price Plus tax Plus shipping

4) Buy from WW: Price Plus $5 shipping


So if you only look at prices, WW may not appear to be the "deal", UNTIL you look at the other cost factors. One usually forgets about the Sales Tax, or Shipping, or Gas cost involved.

So all they were doing was trying to show that. And they get call "deceptive" for it?

MarkDaSpark wrote:Dude! That's always been the way WW has done pricing. It's just now they were trying to show the value, when the Trolls keep posting about how prices aren't so good.


We've always had to factor in what it would cost us to buy the wine on our own. But the Maroons usually forget to factor in the cost of Sales Tax, Shipping or Cost of Gas into the equation.


So here's the following scenerios:

1) Buy from the Winery: Retail, Plus tax Plus shipping

2) Buy local from Wine Shop/etc.: Local price Plus tax Plus Gas (you have to drive there, right?)

3) Buy online: Online price Plus tax Plus shipping

4) Buy from WW: Price Plus $5 shipping


So if you only look at prices, WW may not appear to be the "deal", UNTIL you look at the other cost factors. One usually forgets about the Sales Tax, or Shipping, or Gas cost involved.

So all they were doing was trying to show that. And they get call "deceptive" for it?

I agree that looking at is on it's own, the way they showed it was not deceptive (though you shouldn't have had to scroll over list price and attempt to interpret how they were presenting it). However, looking at it compared to how it was done in the past and how nearly all other online retailers do it, it was deceptive. Yes, some other retailers inflate their list price, but not because they are trying to include shipping and taxes, but because they are truly being deceitful.

Woot made this change because it increased their discount (no matter which of us is right and no matter which method we think is more correct), NOT because it was more transparent or accurate. Don't believe for a second that the change would have been made it showed a lesser discount.

I'm not saying that my way of looking at is right or that your way is wrong (I completely understand the way you are looking at it). As for the people who complained about not getting as good of deals, well, they were right. Woot's prices have gone up and the discounts have gone down, no matter what way you want to look at it. Does that mean that woot still does not offer a great deal and likely the best around? No, but it is still not as good of a deal as we got even as early as a year ago.

The deceit in my mind is that while trying to show those the people the "real deal" they were getting, they were doing so by trying to show bigger discount on a wine today then they may have been showing on the same wine last year, even though it was actually a lesser discount.

Does that make sense?

I also agree with whoever stated above (I think cmaldoon), that it is about the value/QPR, not the discount percentage. I rarely even look at the discount percentage, but I know there are people out there that blindly base their whole purchasing decision on that number alone.

I must be bad at life. I don't care about the savings at all. I look at the wine and say, hey sounds good and I can afford it yes/no. If yes buy, if no don't.

I've never saw a wine and said ZOMG, 60% OFF, I HAVE TO BUY THAT!!!!!!!!

If that's how you buy wine, you're an wishbone.

bhodilee wrote:I must be good at life. I don't care about the savings at all. I look at the wine and say, hey sounds good and I can afford it yes/no. If yes buy, if no don't.

I've never saw a wine and said ZOMG, 60% OFF, I HAVE TO BUY THAT!!!!!!!!

If that's how you buy wine, you're an wishbone.

IFTFY

bhodilee wrote:I must be bad at life. I don't care about the savings at all. I look at the wine and say, hey sounds good and I can afford it yes/no. If yes buy, if no don't.

That's usually how I buy wine too.

bhodilee wrote:I must be bad at life. I don't care about the savings at all. I look at the wine and say, hey sounds good and I can afford it yes/no. If yes buy, if no don't.

I've never saw a wine and said ZOMG, 60% OFF, I HAVE TO BUY THAT!!!!!!!!

If that's how you buy wine, you're an wishbone.

I like savings. If I can get a deal on a wine, I'll probably buy more of it. I shop around for almost everything I buy, in fact. Buy stuff on sale. You know.

chemvictim wrote:I like savings. If I can get a deal on a wine, I'll probably buy more of it. I shop around for almost everything I buy, in fact. Buy stuff on sale. You know.

THIS. it's not how much retail costs, but like everything else, how much can I get it for RIGHT NOW by shopping around. As we've seen even on woot (admittedly very, very seldom), there are times where the price was not much different than the same bottles elsewhere.

And I have to take exception to the shipping and such, everyone runs specials/deals/sales and so many of the online retailers have free shipping on x bottles or the not-so-infrequent "free shipping" codes. Just tell me the price, and I'll do the comparison to see what the "total" price is NOW from the other sites.

chemvictim wrote:I like savings. If I can get a deal on a wine, I'll probably buy more of it. I shop around for almost everything I buy, in fact. Buy stuff on sale. You know.

Rephrase: I don't let the discount be my determining factor. If it's likely to my palate and its here and I can afford it. I'll buy it. % of discount is not a good way to choose. That's the nice thing about here. I'm probably not getting it cheaper in Nebraska, plus there is so much to choose from I never know about the store.

North316 wrote:I agree that looking at is on it's own, the way they showed it was not deceptive (though you shouldn't have had to scroll over list price and attempt to interpret how they were presenting it). However, looking at it compared to how it was done in the past and how nearly all other online retailers do it, it was deceptive. Yes, some other retailers inflate their list price, but not because they are trying to include shipping and taxes, but because they are truly being deceitful.

Woot made this change because it increased their discount (no matter which of us is right and no matter which method we think is more correct), NOT because it was more transparent or accurate. Don't believe for a second that the change would have been made it showed a lesser discount.

I'm not saying that my way of looking at is right or that your way is wrong (I completely understand the way you are looking at it). As for the people who complained about not getting as good of deals, well, they were right. Woot's prices have gone up and the discounts have gone down, no matter what way you want to look at it. Does that mean that woot still does not offer a great deal and likely the best around? No, but it is still not as good of a deal as we got even as early as a year ago.

The deceit in my mind is that while trying to show those the people the "real deal" they were getting, they were doing so by trying to show bigger discount on a wine today then they may have been showing on the same wine last year, even though it was actually a lesser discount.

Does that make sense?

I also agree with whoever stated above (I think cmaldoon), that it is about the value/QPR, not the discount percentage. I rarely even look at the discount percentage, but I know there are people out there that blindly base their whole purchasing decision on that number alone.

Except that the "change" of showing the discount only came this year. When "The Troubles" came. Before that, there was no list price shown.


And part of the reason that the prices aren't as good, is multi-fold. $5 shipping is only paid on the first item purchased for that "day". And for a while there, WW wasn't even getting the $5 paid on WW purchases.

Even now, we don't know if WW is getting any of the $5 to them from any of the purchases. Plus Summer Shipping was in effect, which is more expensive.


So for anyone to say it was deceptive was wrong.

North316 wrote:
...Lots of agreement and reasonable statements...

I also agree with whoever stated above (I think cmaldoon), that it is about the value/QPR, not the discount percentage. I rarely even look at the discount percentage, but I know there are people out there that blindly base their whole purchasing decision on that number alone.

It is this last point alone which is why woot changed how they display the prices.

Oh and for Ohio shipping... I believe from talking with Neil and WD the would use shipping to say me in San Francisco as the shipping cost to include (less $5) to put in the calculation. I believe they really were attempting to err on the low side but still count in a bit more of the total cost than strictly the retail price.

I think we're all talking the same language here and are all reasonable... (Yes even bowtie, is he sick?). I have issue with the folks who make a huge deal of it on the main boards and take attention away from the winemakers.

bhodilee wrote:...
If that's how you buy wine, you're an wishbone.

Ah, I see Woot has dusted off the Thanksgiving filters!

bhodilee wrote:I must be bad at life. I don't care about the savings at all. I look at the wine and say, hey sounds good and I can afford it yes/no. If yes buy, if no don't.

I've never saw a wine and said ZOMG, 60% OFF, I HAVE TO BUY THAT!!!!!!!!

If that's how you buy wine, you're an wishbone.

agreed! or I buy the wine because my fellow enablers tell me to!!

All this is why I thought the right answer was just to include all the numbers transparently. Then you achieve transparency, you get the closer to equivalent cost comparison, and you know what the different components of that total cost are.

Just got done accepting 7 boxes of wine, filing most of that away in my locker and then bring 20 bottles home to put in my local stash. I have purchased a very large amount of wine this year. Does anyone else get to play wine bottle Tetris to try and fit everything in?

I think I have room for the remaining 2 cases on their way but I need to drink as fast or faster than I purchase from here on out.