dahance wrote:Oh, dear. Nobody advised me on anything, except to say, "Sign on and comment!"

You're doing great so far! There will always be someone...

As for this, another forum member and I are in for a split. Thanks for the great deal! Rhone white varietals are mi favorito!

kylemittskus wrote:You're doing great so far! There will always be someone...

As for this, another forum member and I are in for a split. Thanks for the great deal! Rhone white varietals are mi favorito!

The wine is lovely. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Posting about it is making me wish I had some nearby ... maybe I need to visit the tasting room after work.

dahance wrote:The wine is lovely. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Posting about it is making me wish I had some nearby ... maybe I need to visit the tasting room after work.

So, when are you bringing back your PS?

kylemittskus wrote:So, when are you bringing back your PS?

Maybe sooner than we think! If we decide to proceed with some special 10th Anniversary packaging, we might want to move a bit more through our stock of PS more quickly. On the other hand, the winemaker just convinced us to skip the difficult 2011 vintage (still in barrel...we'll blend it into other wines or sell it in bulk) and move from straight from the 2010 to the 2012, which will probably have us holding our bottled wines close and dear. The PS is wonderful, though, from some gnarly old vines.

ghyo1 wrote:David, on your website, in addition to the Founder's price of $16.10, you also show a Family price of $17.25 and a Friends price of $18.40. I'm not sure how your structure your tiered buying. My point was the "retail" price shown on woot is very misleading. The shipping is not included in the woot price and therefore should not be included in your "retail" price. For me, this apparent deception killed the deal.

I think others have pointed this out, but just in case ...

The Retail Price Woot lists is pretty much the price you would get if you ordered from the Winery (whether in person or website) and were not a member of their wine club(s).

So unless you are a member of the winery's wine club, you won't see those savings.

Also, most people forget about adding Sales Tax to the cost, where it's already factored into the WW price. Add in shipping (which varies based on distance) to the total, and the value does increase. (Looking up FedEx 2-day shipping from Paso to NYC for a 20 lb box said it was around $82. Slightly less than $40 to SoCal, but they get a better price for shipping in bulk.)


There are times that a distributor that has excess stock of a wine, will lower the price and "dump" it. So sometimes you will see a price elsewhere for less, but it's not from the winery.

Since Wine.Woot is acting as an agent of the wineries, most of the time we are getting better than wine club pricing. I should know, since I am in way too many wine clubs from wineries that have been here on WW.

Hi Everyone! This is Yanna Williams. I am the Assistant Tasting Room Manager at Clayhouse Wines. I am here to answer/assist you with questions you have as David Hance has stepped out to tend to some wine business!

ghyo1 wrote:Excuse me, but "borderline attacking"? So now, asking a valid question about pricing is an attack? You are the one making the attack. I would say I was quite civil, given that the top of this page says "You're not gonna sit there and let that jerkface get away with saying that, are you?" Read all the posts. Many had questions about the pricing. You apparently must work for woot, and, if so, most likely advised David on his ad. If that's the case, you are not representing either him or woot very well. Regardless, I won't be making this mistake again. Goodbye, woot.

Um, you did say there was deception on Woot's part. That would be considered an attack by almost everyone.

Problem is that since we aren't face to face, intent and meaning are subject to interpretation. Which opens a can of worms, in that we all have triggers that can cause us to over-react.

For example, what you considered "mild", can be "fighting words" to others.


So as a long time Wooter, to me, kyle's initial post was spot on, while in your response shown, was over-reacting. Calling someone deceptive is not being "Civil".


Edit: Sorry, I was confusing that post with your post after that. But kyle's post was mild, and you really did over-react.

dahance wrote:Oh, dear. Nobody advised me on anything, except to say, "Sign on and comment!"

Sorry, we do tend to get passionate about Wine.Woot sometimes. Pricing is always a can of worms. Suppose I should start doing the "How Good is this Deal?" spreadsheet again.

You're doing fine, and you've explained things well. That always helps sell wines here. Just ask Stillman Brown or Scott Harvey or Peter Wellington or .....

The more winery participation, the more we like your wines!!

It's always amusing to me when occasionally people come by and complain about the discount percentage thing, especially since woot didn't use to post a list price of any kind. For any woot site that's just being whiney, but for wine.woot it's just ridiculous. The value of wine is in how much you like it and are willing to spend, not how great a deal you got...

(I mean, I'm a Jew and I'm saying that!)

dahance wrote:Maybe sooner than we think! If we decide to proceed with some special 10th Anniversary packaging, we might want to move a bit more through our stock of PS more quickly. On the other hand, the winemaker just convinced us to skip the difficult 2011 vintage (still in barrel...we'll blend it into other wines or sell it in bulk) and move from straight from the 2010 to the 2012, which will probably have us holding our bottled wines close and dear. The PS is wonderful, though, from some gnarly old vines.

Woot!!! Old Vine PS!


Hope to see you guys at Dark & Delicious next year (in February) again.

greyday wrote:It's always amusing to me when occasionally people come by and complain about the discount percentage thing, especially since woot didn't use to post a list price of any kind. For any woot site that's just being whiney, but for wine.woot it's just ridiculous. The value of wine is in how much you like it and are willing to spend, not how great a deal you got...

(I mean, I'm a Jew and I'm saying that!)

+1 (to the deal part )


Sometimes I think they confuse us with Whine.Woot ...

dahance wrote:Maybe sooner than we think! If we decide to proceed with some special 10th Anniversary packaging, we might want to move a bit more through our stock of PS more quickly.

Yum! Bring on the PS as well..

MarkDaSpark wrote:Woot!!! Old Vine PS!


Hope to see you guys at Dark & Delicious next year (in February) again.

Rusty here (from the winery): D&D is one of our favorite tastings of the year. I'll definitely be there pouring again. It's scheduled for 2/22/13.

I could do with a couple here in SoCal. Any splitters?

rustyeddy wrote:Rusty here (from the winery): D&D is one of our favorite tastings of the year. I'll definitely be there pouring again. It's scheduled for 2/22/13.

We are totally dialed in here at wine.woot for D&D. We already have 2 threads going that Sparky created. Check out the Community Section, world of Woot wine.

We have an afterparty going too, maybe you would like to attend. Or perhaps a special bottle to share for your devoted fans....

greyday wrote:It's always amusing to me when occasionally people come by and complain about the discount percentage thing, especially since woot didn't use to post a list price of any kind. For any woot site that's just being whiney, but for wine.woot it's just ridiculous. The value of wine is in how much you like it and are willing to spend, not how great a deal you got...

(I mean, I'm a Jew and I'm saying that!)

+1

For me it's completely a value proposition.

I take into account varietal, Ava, style, other's tasting notes, my tasting notes (if possible) and then make a value in my head. If the price is less than the value and I have money and space, I buy. Who cares what the original price was.

Chateau Latour for $600, over 60% off is still a $600 bottle of wine and I won't buy it to drink because I don't feel that I can get enough enjoyment out of it to make it worth $600. The 60% is superfluous. (Buying the Latour and then immediately reselling at $1200 is a whole other value proposition but we aren't looking to resell these wines)

This wine I marked down to buy at anything under $20 after having tasted it. It arrives at $18 so I buy!

MarkDaSpark wrote:Sorry, we do tend to get passionate about Wine.Woot sometimes. Pricing is always a can of worms. Suppose I should start doing the "How Good is this Deal?" spreadsheet again.

You're doing fine, and you've explained things well. That always helps sell wines here. Just ask Stillman Brown or Scott Harvey or Peter Wellington or .....

The more winery participation, the more we like your wines!!

Thanks! We actually like our wines. And we work hard to make them better (quality and value) every year. It's a competitive wine world, so we need to be on our toes!

MarkDaSpark wrote:I think others have pointed this out, but just in case ...

The Retail Price Woot lists is pretty much the price you would get if you ordered from the Winery (whether in person or website) and were not a member of their wine club(s).

So unless you are a member of the winery's wine club, you won't see those savings.

Also, most people forget about adding Sales Tax to the cost, where it's already factored into the WW price. Add in shipping (which varies based on distance) to the total, and the value does increase. (Looking up FedEx 2-day shipping from Paso to NYC for a 20 lb box said it was around $82. Slightly less than $40 to SoCal, but they get a better price for shipping in bulk.)


There are times that a distributor that has excess stock of a wine, will lower the price and "dump" it. So sometimes you will see a price elsewhere for less, but it's not from the winery.

Since Wine.Woot is acting as an agent of the wineries, most of the time we are getting better than wine club pricing. I should know, since I am in way too many wine clubs from wineries that have been here on WW.

For the record, I said "apparent deception" and I was addressing the winery, not woot. But since you apparently speak for woot and feel I have overreacted, I will remove myself from your board and your email list. There are many places to get wine without the whine. Now, and finally, goodbye.

My tasting notes from the WCC open house; better late than never!

Lavender, jasmine, white nectarine and honey dew on the nose. Big palate with grass, melon and citrus/lime. Mineral and lime through the finish. Nice acidity.

This is a full-bodied white that is great from attack to finish.

First: I work in Paso Robles wine
Second: NOT at Clayhouse (but I like 'em!)

Even though the asker of the question may be gone forever (?) I feel like maybe there should be an outside comment on wine club pricing here.

It's very common for wineries to offer "wine clubs" that present buyers with the opportunity to access a significant discount (anywhere from 15% to 50%). However, as some others have pointed out, this discount is *not* available to the general public. To get it, you have to sign up, and signing up usually requires contractually agreeing to buy a stipulated amount of wine (between 6 bottles and a couple cases) every year. The winery is, in essence, giving you a price break in exchange for your promise to buy wine in bulk direct from them. In addition, some clubs — like Clayhouse' Founder's Club — have other requirements.

Woot sells direct from wineries, but they are still a separate retail outlet. They cannot offer the wine club pricing, because they can't offer the winery the promise that each sale will equate a new wine club member (a contractually consistent buyer).

So, the pricing isn't misleading at all. It's accurate. If someone walked into the winery and wanted to buy these wines, they'd have to be a member of the wine club to get the discount.

_________________

Edited to say: I just looked everything over and I may have misunderstood the disagreement a bit, but I'm leaving this as a maybe-useless wine club reference anyway.

I recommend this as a splurge to all you $10 bottle drinkers as a thanksgiving wine. This first then a good Pinot Noir......in the $10 range....... Ok good luck with that... But seriously this one would be a great start.

Limlo wrote:
...
So, the pricing isn't misleading at all. It's accurate. If someone walked into the winery and wanted to buy these wines, they'd have to be a member of the wine club to get the discount.

And unless your name is MarkDaSpark, you aren't a member of every wine club in California so wine woot is probably a better price than you can get.

:-P

Frankly, this is why I love being able to make wines available to Wine.Woot: the interaction with the Woot community is great! Love the comments, even the pricing discussion. Thanks to all of you for participating...and please let us know how you like the wine, after all.

Limlo wrote:First: I work in Paso Robles wine
Second: NOT at Clayhouse (but I like 'em!)

Even though the asker of the question may be gone forever (?) I feel like maybe there should be an outside comment on wine club pricing here.

It's very common for wineries to offer "wine clubs" that present buyers with the opportunity to access a significant discount (anywhere from 15% to 50%). However, as some others have pointed out, this discount is *not* available to the general public. To get it, you have to sign up, and signing up usually requires contractually agreeing to buy a stipulated amount of wine (between 6 bottles and a couple cases) every year. The winery is, in essence, giving you a price break in exchange for your promise to buy wine in bulk direct from them. In addition, some clubs — like Clayhouse' Founder's Club — have other requirements.

Woot sells direct from wineries, but they are still a separate retail outlet. They cannot offer the wine club pricing, because they can't offer the winery the promise that each sale will equate a new wine club member (a contractually consistent buyer).

So, the pricing isn't misleading at all. It's accurate. If someone walked into the winery and wanted to buy these wines, they'd have to be a member of the wine club to get the discount.

_________________

Edited to say: I just looked everything over and I may have misunderstood the disagreement a bit, but I'm leaving this as a maybe-useless wine club reference anyway.

--- well, thanks for the perspective.

rustyeddy wrote:Frankly, this is why I love being able to make wines available to Wine.Woot: the interaction with the Woot community is great! Love the comments, even the pricing discussion. Thanks to all of you for participating...and please let us know how you like the wine, after all.

PS! PS! PS!

@limbo- I agree, thanks for the perspective.
@cmaldoon- My original post (the 4th here) was in response to bahwn (the 2nd post). The hover over list price says "we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum." I was showing the lowest price for the sake of comparison. I realize there are conditions for getting that price.
@greyday- My posting was not about the cost, or how much discount I might receive. It was about TIA. Sorry if you missed that.
@kylemittskus-
@dahance- Thank you for your professionalism in dealing with questions. I like white Rhones and what has been said here about your wine. In for four.

ghyo1 wrote:@limbo- I agree, thanks for the perspective.
@cmaldoon- My original post (the 4th here) was in response to bahwn (the 2nd post). The hover over list price says "we rely on Wooters like you to post the best price comparisons in our forum." I was showing the lowest price for the sake of comparison. I realize there are conditions for getting that price.
@greyday- My posting was not about the cost, or how much discount I might receive. It was about TIA. Sorry if you missed that.
@kylemittskus-
@dahance- Thank you for your professionalism in dealing with questions. I like white Rhones and what has been said here about your wine. In for four.

As I said, I really like this wine, and I like our vineyard and winemaking. After we cut through the smoke and mirrors and confusion of communication, we can still open the bottle and say to ourselves, "Nice wine, nice job."

rjquillin wrote:I could do with a couple here in SoCal. Any splitters?

Sure. Want me to buy?

I've been so tempted to push that yellow button, especially since me likey Clayhouse wines. But I really need to be drinking more of the stash*. So splitting the order helps.


* - Most especially since Ty, Scott, Martini (one PS), and David Fulton (PS!!) wine clubs are coming in. Oh, and the Turley (PS!, and Zin) & Switchback (PS!!) allocations.

I mean, I still need to share the locker space with zTimBz!!!

dahance wrote:As I said, I really like this wine, and I like our vineyard and winemaking. After we cut through the smoke and mirrors and confusion of communication, we can still open the bottle and say to ourselves, "Nice wine, nice job."

Funny, when I open one of your bottles, I always say, "Excellent wine, most excellent job!"

I'm still mad someone walked out with my 3L Clayhouse PS at the 2011 D&D! Even if I was able to get the one at this year's D&D.

MarkDaSpark wrote:Funny, when I open one of your bottles, I always say, "Excellent wine, most excellent job!"

I'm still mad someone walked out with my 3L Clayhouse PS at the 2011 D&D! Even if I was able to get the one at this year's D&D.

I couldn't believe that theft, either, but I'm glad we could make it right.

I want to commend all of those who have commented on this thread, including those who are 'concerned' about pricing and about discounts.

The wine world certainly can be a challenging one, and I think many consumers have grown accustomed to fantastic deals, both here and elsewhere. It seems to me that the vast majority of these 'deals' have involved wines that either a winery or distributor was truly trying to 'move quickly' and therefore were willing to sell at pretty steep discounts.

What we have here, and what you'll hopefully continue to see more of, are current release wines that are still 'active' in the marketplace but ones the winery wants to offer to the wine.woot community.

I truly hope that it does not simply come down to 'how big a discount am I getting' when it comes to the decision of purchasing wine. Where does 'quality' come into play> Where does 'ability to pair with food' come into play? And how do you define 'QPR' when it comes to wines? Do you compare variety to variety, region to region, vintage to vintage, case production of winery to case production of winery? Most don't, but perhaps more should.

As a small producer, I dig the wine.woot community, just as other winemakers have said here and on previous offers. The immediacy of feedback and the give and take are awesome and right up my alley - and that's why I enjoy posting and taking part in offers from time to time . . .

I do hope that it does not just come down to 'discounts off of retail' and 'how low can you go' - if it does, my guess is that you'll see some of the deals you've enjoyed in the past dry up a bit . . .

Cheers!

neilfindswine wrote:Hey Larry, did you lose my number again?

You quoting Carly Rae now?!?!?? (heh heh heh)

Nope, just busy with harvest, the kids, etc . . . .

texacaliali wrote:Jeesh - I just drove 216 miles round-trip to deliver a keg of Cabernet to an account and get home, check out what today's offer is up to and - le sigh.

Well said Larry.

I always enjoy Clayhouse & Tercero Wines...nice to see this gorgeous Rhone white up today, will be great to drink while working on the Thanksgiving Day spread (day drinking without guilt is the best ever!).

Wait...you feel guilt when drinking wine??!?