Thanks for the offering. I am a fan of most bubbly and I'm sure I'll enjoy this. I enjoyed the Frizzante that was offered a while back and I thought I saw there is some connection. Cheers!

Winedavid39 wrote:Hello and happy anniversary home.woot !

the QPR on this wine is fantastic even without discounting. we've been talking to Rack & Riddle for months trying to land this deal.

Rack & Riddle behind the scenes creates sparkling wine for several brands you are familiar with. This is the only brand where they have come from behind the curtain and put their name on.

Sparkling of this quality at this price is hard to come by. We are very pleased to have solidified this offer.

From what I've found, Rack & Riddle is a custom crush facility that processed 6,000 tons for 4-5 dozen clients, producing 225,000 cases of sparkling and 175,000 cases of still wines last year. I'm looking for an explanation of how this offer fits in with most of the others offered by WW--this producer appears to be an example of a business that's the antithesis of a boutique winery. And CC reviews are few and unhelpful.

What part of the picture is missing?!?

Winedavid39 wrote:oh, i disagree (with all due respect). This is an outfit that is identifying juice that qualifies to be good enough for them to put their own label on it. And they come across alot of juice. In this case you have the benefit of economy of scale and yet an attention to detail for this specific lot.

And it really tastes good.

I don't doubt the veracity of your claims, but I believe that my question remains largely unanswered and that the picture only is partially drawn. I'm thinking of hundreds of past WW offerings and Wooter comments in support of small, boutique operations whose wines reflect and telegraph the terroir, etc. I believe that this crowd appreciates and welcomes these traits and honors (through their comments and purchases) the people who pour their lives into creating wines of place and uniqueness. I'm not hearing those important qualities today but I am hopeful.

takethefarmandrun wrote:From what I've found, Rack & Riddle is a custom crush facility that processed 6,000 tons for 4-5 dozen clients, producing 225,000 cases of sparkling and 175,000 cases of still wines last year. I'm looking for an explanation of how this offer fits in with most of the others offered by WW--this producer appears to be an example of a business that's the antithesis of a boutique winery. And CC reviews are few and unhelpful.

What part of the picture is missing?!?

Hi from Rack & Riddle - you are right, we do a lot of custom crush for folks and this harvest is a biggee! But our Rack & Riddle Sparkling brand is definitely boutique size. We are fortunate that we are able to source the best grapes for sparkling wine and because we have our awesome winemaker, Penny Gadd-Coster. All of our sparkling wine is en tirage (aged) between 9 and 18+ months so our releases are few and far between. For us it's all about the quality of the bubbles, not the number of cases we can produce.

klezman wrote: I have too much bubbly

How can you even get in that situation? I can't keep bubbles around without drinking them. I don't need a special occasion. I survived the workday! Let's celebrate!

takethefarmandrun wrote:I don't doubt the veracity of your claims, but I believe that my question remains largely unanswered and that the picture only is partially drawn. I'm thinking of hundreds of past WW offerings and Wooter comments in support of small, boutique operations whose wines reflect and telegraph the terroir, etc. I believe that this crowd appreciates and welcomes these traits and honors (through their comments and purchases) the people who pour their lives into creating wines of place and uniqueness. I'm not hearing those important qualities today but I am hopeful.

Easy there, speaking for us (the crowd) when you're opinion certainly isn't shared by all of us, at least not me. It seems they crush a lot of wine for other wineries. That fact has no bearing on this offer -- the facilities own label and fruit choice.

You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. The facility makes money by doing a service for other people. They also, as evidence proves, make their own wine, under their own label. Should we ignore their wine because they make other wine for other people on a scale too large to fit your definition of boutique winery? What if their wine production is of boutique-winery size? I say no. This offer fits in perfectly, IMO.

kylemittskus wrote:Easy there, speaking for us (the crowd) when you're opinion certainly isn't shared by all of us, at least not me. It seems they crush a lot of wine for other wineries. That fact has no bearing on this offer -- the facilities own label and fruit choice.

You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. The facility makes money by doing a service for other people. They also, as evidence proves, make their own wine, under their own label. Should we ignore their wine because they make other wine for other people on a scale too large to fit your definition of boutique winery? What if their wine production is of boutique-winery size? I say no. This offer fits in perfectly, IMO.

Concur.

I'm not aware of anything that says the wine.woot business model is "boutique" wineries (whatever those are). It is about generating value for both consumers and sellers.

As I understand, when wine enters the normal distribution channels, the price the winery receives is half (or less) of what it finally sells for on the retailers shelf. By selling direct through a site such as wine.woot the winery probably nets more while we pay less. That model has nothing to do with "boutique" or whether a particular facility produces under more than one label.

chemvictim wrote:I survived the workday! Let's celebrate!

Great quote!!

kylemittskus wrote:Easy there, speaking for us (the crowd) when you're opinion certainly isn't shared by all of us, at least not me. It seems they crush a lot of wine for other wineries. That fact has no bearing on this offer -- the facilities own label and fruit choice.

You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. The facility makes money by doing a service for other people. They also, as evidence proves, make their own wine, under their own label. Should we ignore their wine because they make other wine for other people on a scale too large to fit your definition of boutique winery? What if their wine production is of boutique-winery size? I say no. This offer fits in perfectly, IMO.

This is a fairly common practice by custom crush and storage wineries. The winery my mom works at does the same thing (and being just up the 101 north of Ukiah probably knows this winery well), and with the amount of juice they make, they're able to select the crème de la crème to bottle with their own label, and it's typically outstanding juice. It's typically very small volume, often times hand bottled. I suspect that is exactly the case here (sans the hand bottling).

kylemittskus wrote:Easy there, speaking for us (the crowd) when you're opinion certainly isn't shared by all of us, at least not me. It seems they crush a lot of wine for other wineries. That fact has no bearing on this offer -- the facilities own label and fruit choice.

You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. The facility makes money by doing a service for other people. They also, as evidence proves, make their own wine, under their own label. Should we ignore their wine because they make other wine for other people on a scale too large to fit your definition of boutique winery? What if their wine production is of boutique-winery size? I say no. This offer fits in perfectly, IMO.

Kyle, easy, this is just about a wine (and not about us). But I think you are at least partially mistaken: they are a large custom crush operation and that dominates their business model. Based on your comments, I trust that you've already purchased your allowed limit.

All I've been asking for are the meaningful details that so often are valued when making buying decisions (which both of us clearly have done many times). I have read marketing platitudes, but little in the way of meaningful stats. If you know the #s, please share!

In the meantime, should we talk about the day of the week (Thursday) & how this beverage perhaps resembles caramels, how this offering compares to Iron Horse, why it can't be shipped to every state, the discount...?...or can we focus on info such as where exactly the grapes came from? ;)

takethefarmandrun wrote:Kyle, easy, this is just about a wine (and not about us). But I think you are at least partially mistaken: they are a large custom crush operation and that dominates their business model. Based on your comments, I trust that you've already purchased your allowed limit.

All I've been asking for are the meaningful details that so often are valued when making buying decisions (which both of us clearly have done many times). I have read marketing platitudes, but little in the way of meaningful stats. If you know the #s, please share!

In the meantime, should we talk about the day of the week (Thursday) & how this beverage perhaps resembles caramels, how this offering compares to Iron Horse, why it can't be shipped to every state, the discount...?...or can we focus on info such as where exactly the grapes came from? ;)

You lost me with the last paragraph. And I am not buying this wine, but in no way does that, nor should it, disallow me from having an opinion about the wine. Or about your opinion for that matter. As far as #s, the winery was present and I didn't notice you ask for any. I love #s, but knowing I wasn't buying, I didn't ask. It seems odd for you to complain about the lack of something without asking for it first.

noslensj wrote:Concur.

I'm not aware of anything that says the wine.woot business model is "boutique" wineries (whatever those are). It is about generating value for both consumers and sellers.

As I understand, when wine enters the normal distribution channels, the price the winery receives is half (or less) of what it finally sells for on the retailers shelf. By selling direct through a site such as wine.woot the winery probably nets more while we pay less. That model has nothing to do with "boutique" or whether a particular facility produces under more than one label.

We haven't met...but I think that you're cherry picking my statements. I see that for all your posts over more years than most of the WW contributors have held accounts, your square isn't black, so I infer that you are a discriminating buyer (as opposed to the likes of Kyle and me).

I didn't follow your logic--at least it didn't address the info I seek--but perhaps we'll meet a gathering. [I'm emoticon-challenged]

takethefarmandrun wrote:We haven't met...but I think that you're cherry picking my statements. I see that for all your posts over more years than most of the WW contributors have held accounts, your square isn't black, so I infer that you are a discriminating buyer (as opposed to the likes of Kyle and me).

I didn't follow your logic--at least it didn't address the info I seek--but perhaps we'll meet a gathering. [I'm emoticon-challenged]

Again, one must purchase to have an opinion? My opinion is invalid because I didn't buy this one and noslensj's opinion is invalid because he has less than 100 woots?

kylemittskus wrote:You lost me with the last paragraph. And I am not buying this wine, but in no way does that, nor should it, disallow me from having an opinion about the wine. Or about your opinion for that matter. As far as #s, the winery was present and I didn't notice you ask for any. I love #s, but knowing I wasn't buying, I didn't ask. It seems odd for you to complain about the lack of something without asking for it first.

Kyle, I've asked for the info repeatedly--and as you might recall, my first post was in response to Winedavid39; I am unable to be on the boards all day; the R&R rep doesn't appear to be available all day either.

takethefarmandrun wrote:Kyle, I've asked for the info repeatedly--and as you might recall, my first post was in response to Winedavid39; I am unable to be on the boards all day; the R&R rep doesn't appear to be available all day either.

Your only post outside of this conversation asks for no numbers. It asks how this fits in with the boutique winery trend that you think woot has to follow. Answer: it doesn't because woot doesn't have to stick to only wineries that fall within an arbitrary definition that you create. What constitutes "boutique"? And you ask what part of the picture you're missing. Answer: all of it. Bsevern, noslensj, the winery, and I have all explained how this offer isn't for a mass-market wine. And even if it were, see answer to question one.

kylemittskus wrote:Again, one must purchase to have an opinion? My opinion is invalid because I didn't buy this one and noslensj's opinion is invalid because he has less than 100 woots?

Kyle, I know you well enough from your many prior posts that we can agree to disengage from personal attacks and re-focus on the item for sale--at least that is my desire.

Do you know anything substantive about this 4-some that WW hasn't listed?

takethefarmandrun wrote:Kyle, I know you well enough from your many prior posts that we can agree to disengage from personal attacks and re-focus on the item for sale--at least that is my desire.

Do you know anything substantive about this 4-some that WW hasn't listed?

Not a single personal attack has been waged by either of us. Or anyone else today actually. ThunderThighs: do we win something?

kylemittskus wrote:Not a single personal attack has been waged by either of us. Or anyone else today actually. ThunderThighs: do we win something?

Good. Any info...Bueller?

takethefarmandrun wrote:Good. Any info...Bueller?

What info do you want?

takethefarmandrun wrote:Good. Any info...Bueller?

Ill take a shot at it.

Here in Glendora CA it's currently 7:06 and 68 degrees F.

kylemittskus wrote:What info do you want?

You're such a kidder. Rinse & Repeat as in see above.

takethefarmandrun wrote:Good. Any info...Bueller?

Try the Specs tab on the main offer page for numbers on each of the 4 wines and/or check the website link in Cesare's post to find out more about Rack & Riddle.

takethefarmandrun wrote:You're such a kidder. Rinse & Repeat as in see above.

You've asked nothing substantive! And I answered your two non-questions. There's no boutique rule and you're missing the entire picture.

@everyone else: I know, I know. I just can't stop myself.

chipgreen wrote:Try the Specs tab on the main offer page for numbers on each of the 4 wines and/or check the website link in Cesare's post to find out more about Rack & Riddle.

Doh!

kylemittskus wrote:You've asked nothing substantive! And I answered your two non-questions. There's no boutique rule and you're missing the entire picture.

@everyone else: I know, I know. I just can't stop myself.

There is nothing more entertaining than when Kyle does not get enough sleep

:edit: and he's aggravated

kylemittskus wrote:You've asked nothing substantive! And I answered your two non-questions. There's no boutique rule and you're missing the entire picture.

@everyone else: I know, I know. I just can't stop myself.

Sir, so far you've done nothing of the sort & your "boutique rule" (your term) is nothing I'm familiar with. And how do any of us know with certainty the perceptions of others?

takethefarmandrun wrote:Sir, so far you've done nothing of the sort & your "boutique rule" (your term) is nothing I'm familiar with. And how do any of us know with certainty the perceptions of others?

Boutique was your word! And the assertion that wine.woot only offers boutique wineries, whatever that means, was also yours:

takethefarmandrun wrote: I'm looking for an explanation of how this offer fits in with most of the others offered by WW--this producer appears to be an example of a business that's the antithesis of a boutique winery.

Are you drunk? Am I being punk'd?

kylemittskus wrote:Are you drunk? Am I being punk'd?

hah, hah, there you go again!

noslensj wrote:Concur.

I'm not aware of anything that says the wine.woot business model is "boutique" wineries (whatever those are). It is about generating value for both consumers and sellers.
As I understand, when wine enters the normal distribution channels, the price the winery receives is half (or less) of what it finally sells for on the retailers shelf. By selling direct through a site such as wine.woot the winery probably nets more while we pay less. That model has nothing to do with "boutique" or whether a particular facility produces under more than one label.

I disagree. I look to WW for boutique-type wines which in my mind are : small production (lessthan 1,000 cases), made by winemakers that want he terroir to speak for itself, and cannot be found at my local supermarket.

Hi everyone, this has been quite the read! We are new to woot so we probably haven't chimed in enough today...we are learning!
Thank you for all the great conversation ... it sounds like some of you would like to know how much we produce. About 3000 total cases - 1500 Brut and 500 of each of the others. We trust that woot chose us because we fit their profile of deals and we are honored to have been a part of their anniversary celebration. Thank you so much for considering our deal and for learning about Rack & Riddle.

I just pulled the trigger, looking forward to trying these out. The BdB and BdN look especially appealing.

racknriddle wrote:Hi everyone, this has been quite the read! We are new to woot so we probably haven't chimed in enough today...we are learning!
Thank you for all the great conversation ... it sounds like some of you would like to know how much we produce. About 3000 total cases - 1500 Brut and 500 of each of the others. We trust that woot chose us because we fit their profile of deals and we are honored to have been a part of their anniversary celebration. Thank you so much for considering our deal and for learning about Rack & Riddle.

Hi R&R, please say something about the sourcing for the grapes used.

racknriddle wrote:Hi everyone, this has been quite the read! We are new to woot so we probably haven't chimed in enough today...we are learning!
Thank you for all the great conversation ... it sounds like some of you would like to know how much we produce. About 3000 total cases - 1500 Brut and 500 of each of the others. We trust that woot chose us because we fit their profile of deals and we are honored to have been a part of their anniversary celebration. Thank you so much for considering our deal and for learning about Rack & Riddle.

Thank you for sticking around. Trial by fire, huh? Most of us greatly appreciate your participation. The rest of us? Well, you can't win 'em all.

losthighwayz wrote:I disagree. I look to WW for boutique-type wines which in my mind are : small production (lessthan 1,000 cases), made by winemakers that want he terroir to speak for itself, and cannot be found at my local supermarket.

Then one of these almost meets your criteria and the other two beat it by 50%.

chipgreen wrote:I just pulled the trigger, looking forward to trying these out. The BdB and BdN look especially appealing.

That is great! You will not be disappointed...I am enjoying a glass of Blanc de Noirs right now. Thank you so much for your order!

takethefarmandrun wrote:Hi R&R, please say something about the sourcing for the grapes used.

Los Carneros Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and also Mendocino Chardonnay.

noslensj wrote:Of the various states where I have looked up what is required to get a license to ship wine into the state, every one of them, without fail, as a prerequisite for gaining approval requires that the winery obtain a business license from that state. Once they have that business license, they are then obligated to report sales made to residents of that state and remit any sales tax that is due. If the state also imposes liquor taxes, those will also be required, usually by requiring the winery to also obtain a license from whatever state agency collects those taxes.

Personally, I have a difficult time imagining a state granting approval to an out of state winery to sell wine into that state without also requiring the winery to collect and remit the same sales and liquor taxes that any in-state winery would need to collect for that same sale. State governments just don't overlook potential sources of revenue and they don't create rules that give price advantages to out of state entities competing with in-state businesses. It would be interesting to know if there are any states that allow out of state wineries to sell wine into a state while paying less taxes on the sale than would be collected by an in-state winery. Personally I doubt that there are any that do so.

If you are getting wine without paying sales tax, most likely what is happening is that the winery isn't showing you the cost and is just embedding the tax into the pricing.

I buy quite a bit of wine online both retail and winery direct. I happen to know that some wineries ship without charging tax and in fact do not report it. Yes, anymore it is the smaller wineries, and yes, it it is getting harder to get away with it, and with the risk involved..well.... that being said, I just ordered directly from Rack and Riddle. No sales tax was applied. Although the price here from Woot implies a sales tax. Just sayin'....

kylemittskus wrote:Thank you for sticking around. Trial by fire, huh? Most of us greatly appreciate your participation. The rest of us? Well, you can't win 'em all.

thank you, I appreciate that!

What the heck? I trust this thread is an outlier and this place hasn't actually gotten this snippy since I disappeared?