Mike,
How is the 06 tasting now. I have one in the cellar, may drink it tonight. I have about 15 Deloach's to choose from, which is about 10-15% of my total wine. Looking for a good one to drink tonight. Should I let it sit a little longer?

neilfindswine wrote:
Again, Mike from DeLoach can correct me if I'm wrong, these Pinots ARE NOT sourced from Bio-Dynamically farmed vineyards, so all is well in the world of science at least for today...

I would venture a guess that the cost of these wines is as much a result of the expensive methods they employ every step of the way... from clonal/vineyard selection, to barrel selection to the viticultural staff/winemaker costs, throwing away all but the best fruit, etc. etc. etc. The cost of crystals and cow horns and certification is minor in the big picture I'd bet.

You are correct neilfindswine, the Sonoma Stage Vineyard is owned by a grower that we source from because we want to highlight that vineyard. A question was posed about our Estate Pinot a couple hours ago which is where the Biodynamic discussion began. Cost of the wine is determined by the entire process from vine to bottle. The certification is pricey up front but long term it evens out so we don't have to skyrocket prices to account for the change.

It is similar to planting a vineyard on fallow land. To cultivate the land, put in the trellising system, plant the vines then wait for the vines to mature etc it is really expensive short term. Long term, after you wait that 3-5 years to start making wine from the vineyard you are able to start taking care of the upfront costs. It is an investment, but well worth it Biodynamic or not because where would this world be without great wine ;)

BrianV wrote:Mike,
How is the 06 tasting now. I have one in the cellar, may drink it tonight. I have about 15 Deloach's to choose from, which is about 10-15% of my total wine. Looking for a good one to drink tonight. Should I let it sit a little longer?

Hey BrianV,

The '06 is one I haven't visited in a while, in fact when I heard about this Woot it reminded me I need to open up a bottle to see how it is doing.

If the '07 is any indication it should be tasting great at this point. The '06 did have some heavier oak aging, 50% new French oak compared to 35% on the '07, so you will probably get more brown spice, vanilla and caramel characteristics but the fruit should be hanging around just fine.

I would give it a shot! Be sure to let us know how it is tasting. Pretty sure we have some stocked in our library at the winery actually so we would love to hear your thoughts.

jammero wrote:No shipping to Louisiana.....boo!! Glad I checked before I ordered

Thanks for the heads up jammero! We are actually able to, we are changing the settings on the offer so you should be good to go in about 15-20 minutes. Sorry about that.

Cheers!

A big thanks to all the Wooters for an excellent conversation today!

I will be around for the next hour so if you have an questions that have been left unanswered just give me a shout. If not I will leave you with this:

The best gift to give someone is a bottle of wine. Then a corkscrew so they can open it.

Cheers =)

I've had some nice DeLoach Pinot's that were in the lower price bracket, so I'm sure these will be very good.

My 2 cents on biodynamic?

It's the new organic!

Drink on!

mikefromdeloach wrote:Hey BrianV,

The '06 is one I haven't visited in a while, in fact when I heard about this Woot it reminded me I need to open up a bottle to see how it is doing.

If the '07 is any indication it should be tasting great at this point. The '06 did have some heavier oak aging, 50% new French oak compared to 35% on the '07, so you will probably get more brown spice, vanilla and caramel characteristics but the fruit should be hanging around just fine.

I would give it a shot! Be sure to let us know how it is tasting. Pretty sure we have some stocked in our library at the winery actually so we would love to hear your thoughts.

I lied, it's an 07 I have at home. Since I have a new one on the way, I'll drink my current 07 tonight. Give me an hour or so, and I'll provide my feedback on this.

neilfindswine wrote:

I too LOVE these debates.... Kyle, North, I hope we can have these debates in person sooner or later... Perhaps at a Woot gathering...

Time for a WCC field-trip to Ohio.

Opened and decanted the 07, it is really great guys. There is still some tannins left, but it is softening out to a nicely balanced wine. Good fruit on the front, but very balanced and not too fruit forward. Very smooth/soft medium bodied with a nice and lasting finish.

Definitely a solid $40 Pinot at this pricepoint. I'm debating ordering more...

Edit: Just ordered another pair. Looking forward to keeping one set for another ~5 years and checking on its progress, will drink the others in the next couple of years.

losthighwayz wrote:Kyle, North and other anti Biodynamic peeps: there are many things in our world that cannot be explained by Science. I assume you believe in Darwanism or the Big Bang Theory, correct? Which is ok BUT do not knock on what cannot be proven. There are many mysteries out there that we will never be able to prove. I am a believer in the moon and how it affects pur moods, food, etc.

This is an insane argument. There are things that are logically inferred. You can question their veracity all you want, but comparing a logical/scientific-based inference to something that can be empirically proven wrong is asinine.

And the moon doesn't affect foods, moods, or anything else, you lunatic. Get it? See, because we used to think that the moon made people crazy, i.e.: clinically, mentally ill. But we now know that such a belief is absurd.

If you're going to say that some things just can't be explained by science, then buy my naked lady wine! It's great. And you never know. For the record, just because something hasn't been proven by science doesn't mean it can't be; it just means it hasn't been proven yet.

loveladyelectric wrote:Please elaborate?

Basing a purchase on an arbitrary number given by someone whose palate you do not know is crazy (not that you did this since you went in on this offer).

I read professional reviews, but I read them for clue words about style. I almost completely disregard the points given. As far as CT points, I completely disregard them except for specific tasters whose palates I'm familiar with (like a lot of the people here from woot).

I have had DeLoach Pinot's and liked them but I will add my 2 cents and maybe I have said it before but there is no question...

BioDynamics = hippie nonsense

mikefromdeloach wrote:A great point neilfindswine. It is just what we prefer to do and you are right, as long as it is good wine that you would like to drink that is all that matters.

Thank you for the kind words!

But this isn't entirely true is it? If you just wanted to make better wine, and you believed that BD was the way to do it, then why get certified? Why pay the extra money to be able to put the symbol on your product? You're not praying in the anonymity of your own room, if you will. That's marketing, plain and simple. You may prefer to do BD practices, but the only reason, at least that I can think of, to get certified is to use it in marketing, which has nothing to do with the quality of your juice. By the way, I'm not condemning you for marketing. Make a buck. But don't tell us "all we care about is better wine" when you do (and should) care about making more money. I just find the way you're making that extra buck a load of voodoodoodoo BS hokum crap.

North316 wrote:I really thought you would tee off on the BioDynamics, not the points.

I was SO good today. It was NOT easy.

kylemittskus wrote:But this isn't entirely true is it? If you just wanted to make better wine, and you believed that BD was the way to do it, then why get certified? Why pay the extra money to be able to put the symbol on your product? You're not praying in the anonymity of your own room, if you will. That's marketing, plain and simple. You may prefer to do BD practices, but the only reason, at least that I can think of, to get certified is to use it in marketing, which has nothing to do with the quality of your juice. By the way, I'm not condemning you for marketing. Make a buck. But don't tell us "all we care about is better wine" when you do (and should) care about making more money. I just find the way you're making that extra buck a load of voodoodoodoo BS hokum crap.

So... since your basic argument against Bd is that certification is costing you more money per bottle retail..how about giving us your estimate on how much extra per bottle we are paying? Specifics please.

And what's wrong with marketing? Don't you think we pay for all marketing....yeesh...

..anyway, how much per bottle extra are we paying for DeLoach to market their wine as biodynamic?

neilfindswine wrote:(Quietly raising hand as I sip a glass of non-biodynamic Viognier) Remember, this Pinot is not biodynamic....!

That I know... but the conversation seems to have drifted.. argument seems to be that the BD thing is strictly marketing...not saying that I agree or disagree..but since I want to be an informed consumer, I would like to know how much the BD marketing is costing me..kyle sounds like he knows, so thought I would ask him..

neilfindswine wrote:(Quietly raising hand as I sip a glass of non-biodynamic Viognier) Remember, this Pinot is not biodynamic....!

..and actually..the marketing costs would most likely be spread among all their products..no?

neilfindswine wrote:(Quietly raising hand as I sip a glass of non-biodynamic Viognier) Remember, this Pinot is not biodynamic....!

Haha. I am drinking non bioD as well... Off to punt some tasting notes... maybe it will have some hang time.

Ok not so great with the puns.

neilfindswine wrote:
It all comes back to- why is anyone concerned about any of this?

Too much free time? Nothing better to do? Repressed anger issues? Nightmares about hippies? I dunno. Wine is supposed to be a *happy* thing...if not, you're doing it wrong. So wrong.

It all comes back to- why is anyone concerned about any of this? Do we like the wine? Is it worth the asking price? That's my criteria...[/quote]

...and that sir, is my point...so many variables...BD only being one of them...so to call out a wine for declaring they are BD just seems shortsighted... but it is late, and my non-BD bowl of popcorn is empty now...

Cheers!

chemvictim wrote:Too much free time? Nothing better to do? Repressed anger issues? Nightmares about hippies? I dunno. Wine is supposed to be a *happy* thing...if not, you're doing it wrong. So wrong.

I assure you, chem, I have none of the above. Religion makes you rather uncomfortable, and I'm sure it's for none of the reasons you list. This is, at its core, a religion. Personally, I just really dislike people trying to sell BS. And kaolis, the marketing/cost ratio is maybe 5% of my problem with BD. The vast majority is the BS factor. I hate the power bands, I hate fake diets, I hate the autism/vaccination movement, I hate anything that can be empirically proven wrong, yet is sold as truth. Want some snake oil?

kylemittskus wrote:I assure you, chem, I have none of the above. Religion makes you rather uncomfortable, and I'm sure it's for none of the reasons you list. This is, at its core, a religion. Personally, I just really dislike people trying to sell BS. And kaolis, the marketing/cost ratio is maybe 5% of my problem with BD. The vast majority is the BS factor. I hate the power bands, I hate fake diets, I hate the autism/vaccination movement, I hate anything that can be empirically proven wrong, yet is sold as truth. Want some snake oil?

Yes, we know you hate anything BD. It isn't scientific, it is hogwash, it costs more. OK, we get it. I think the issue people are hinting at here is why you feel compelled to go all kung fu on BD every time it comes up here. All of the people that frequent these boards are pretty aware of your feelings on the issue. When the focus shifts from the message to the messenger there might be a problem somewhere. I hate a lot of things, I don't feel compelled to publicly shout about them every time I encounter them.

I guess people here have claimed certain niches as their own. RPM is the resident philosopher, historian and all around font of wine knowledge, Bowtie is the sometimes bitter, cynical, and always amusing comic relief, MDS the wine hoarder, PS has staked out legal issues and libertarian politics, etc. And you have claimed the "I hate BD and all things scientifically unproven" niche as yours. OK, got it.

Nothing really to add to the discussion but this:

What if a winery practices BD but doesn't advertise it? Is it still 'voo doo' if it's not being used for marketing purposes?

And what if a winery does not charge more because of it's bio d practices? I know of wineries in our area that put out sub $20 blends that are great and are bio d.

Kyle, believe me, I have enough scientific training to not believe stuff on 'blind faith' either, and on face value, believing just because someone says so makes no sense at all. As Neil points out, it should be about what's INside the bottle that counts . . .

I disdain ANY type of practice that is blatantly used for marketing purposes, be it organic, 'unfiltered', bid d, bigger and heavier glass bottles, etc . . .

Just my chiming in . . .

Cheers

tercerowines wrote:Nothing really to add to the discussion but this:

What if a winery practices BD but doesn't advertise it? Is it still 'voo doo' if it's not being used for marketing purposes?

And what if a winery does not charge more because of it's bio d practices? I know of wineries in our area that put out sub $20 blends that are great and are bio d.

Kyle, believe me, I have enough scientific training to not believe stuff on 'blind faith' either, and on face value, believing just because someone says so makes no sense at all. As Neil points out, it should be about what's INside the bottle that counts . . .

I disdain ANY type of practice that is blatantly used for marketing purposes, be it organic, 'unfiltered', bid d, bigger and heavier glass bottles, etc . . .

Just my chiming in . . .

Cheers

Larry,

I always appreciate your opinions. And to answer your first question, yeah, it's still VDDD, but I'm more ok with it than I am with wineries that get certified and then put the emblem or symbol on their products. If they don't charge more /bottle and they don't tell anyone they're BD, because they think that it actually makes the wine better and that's actually what they care about, I'm half ok with it. I have a hard time buying into (both literally and to use a colloquialism) someone's absolutely absurd beliefs. But if you keep those beliefs to yourself, and I don't know you have them... ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

I don't even know what the symbol looks like. I guess that particular marketing is lost on me. I believe that there are many weird unexplainable things in this world. This is not one of them. I think it's straight up BS.

cortot20 wrote:I don't even know what the symbol looks like. I guess that particular marketing is lost on me. I believe that there are many weird unexplainable things in this world. This is not one of them. I think it's straight up BS.

To me, it's difficult to call 'straight up BS' on it without having a true A/B comparison to look at . . . . and that argument goes both ways.

A couple of years ago, I questioned a local vintner about their decision to go BD, and his response was that he just 'knew' the wines would be 'better' because the vines were happier. I asked him if he perhaps could have kept a few rows or a few blocks non-BD to compare/contrast, but he said there was no need because he was convinced they didn't need to . . .

THAT didn't make me feel any more confident about their decision . . . but that was one case, and only one . . .

Cheers