*Waves his hand horizontally in front of Peter* These are not your whites that I'm looking for. ;)

that SB is great. and see wht else is in it. lovely.

Well, alright. I just came off the fence and bought all four of the Wellington offerings. I am definitely a fan of the new woot.plus concept.

As long as there is a prominent discussion thread for each woot.plus deal, I am of the opinion that more is more. I come to woot to find wines that I otherwise wouldn't know about, and to learn about those wines. The aggressive deals are a good thing, but they are not the primary draw for me. The discussion with knowledgable wooters, and with the winemakers, is the unique feature of the site, and that is definitely scalable to more deals.

One usability note, which I cross-posted in the beta feedback and in the first impressions thread:

I just bought all four of the Wellington woot.plus deals, and the workflow was extremely cumbersome. It took me about 25 clicks and back buttons, and I also had to keep track of which ones I had already bought to avoid buying the same thing again. Seems like some sort of shopping cart metaphor is necessary, now that the likelihood of multiple purchases in a day is greatly increased.

mother wrote:*Waves his hand horizontally in front of Peter* These are not your whites that I'm looking for. ;)

+1

I'm already in for the CF and Port. Yum.

Hey Cesare...howcome in CT there is an entry for "Wellington Vineyards Old vine Port Estate" and a separate one for "Wellington Vineyards Old Vines", no port/fortified designation in the title? Are these dupes? Did Peter actually make two different wines of that sort?

blakewoot wrote:I just bought all four of the Wellington woot.plus deals, and the workflow was extremely cumbersome. It took me about 25 clicks and back buttons, and I also had to keep track of which ones I had already bought to avoid buying the same thing again. Seems like some sort of shopping cart metaphor is necessary, now that the likelihood of multiple purchases in a day is greatly increased.

The same thing happened to me. I ended up putting in two orders of the Port somehow because I realized there wasn't a "shopping cart" system in place and opened two tabs for each deal. The Woot servicefolk were great and quickly cancelled the extra set, though.

I went in for the Port and Cab Franc, and still have the Syrah "Mini-Vert" from a couple weeks ago in the mail too. And this in the middle of probably my driest spell of wine-buying for years (just three cases total in four months, according to CT).

I really ought to just join the Wellington wine club.

k1avg wrote:...

I really ought to just join the Wellington wine club.

Yes, I highly recommended it!

So, about these wines? Particularly the whites? Can anyone who has tasted them give us a hint of what they tasted? (Preferably a non-cryptic hint so I can figure out if they are the droids I am looking for.)

And, not incidently, thank you for setting this up, Cesare.

creekhounds wrote:So, about these wines? Particularly the whites? Can anyone who has tasted them give us a hint of what they tasted? (Preferably a non-cryptic hint so I can figure out if they are the droids I am looking for.)

And, not incidently, thank you for setting this up, Cesare.

The winemaker here, so the most experience with these wines, but not impartial.
The Chardonnay is dry with good acid and a very modest amount of oak. Partial stainless cold ferment for freshness, partial barrel ferment for richness and smoothness. This is the kind of droid that goes well with food (It's NOT the slightly sweet, oaky, buttery style of America's #1 selling Chardonnay). The SB is quite crisp, definitely a food wine rather than a sipper. Some folks leave residual sugar to soften the impact of cool climate SB's typically bracing acid, but we don't. Unmistakably SB, but not in the grassy, cat pee on a gooseberry bush way. Aromas and flavors are in the melon, grapefruit and peach-apricot range.

SonomaBouliste wrote:The winemaker here, so the most experience with these wines, but not impartial.
The Chardonnay is dry with good acid and a very modest amount of oak. Partial stainless cold ferment for freshness, partial barrel ferment for richness and smoothness. This is the kind of droid that goes well with food (It's NOT the slightly sweet, oaky, buttery style of America's #1 selling Chardonnay). The SB is quite crisp, definitely a food wine rather than a sipper. Some folks leave residual sugar to soften the impact of cool climate SB's typically bracing acid, but we don't. Unmistakably SB, but not in the grassy, cat pee on a gooseberry bush way. Aromas and flavors are in the melon, grapefruit and peach-apricot range.

Ok I am not sure whether to laugh or be confused. Is droid some actual wine term that I have just never heard of, or is the woot-bots taking control again?

Also Peter, I'm not sure that I have seen a consistent answer on this (or maybe there isn't one), but what exactly is it that makes a Chardonnay "buttery" and is this simply a mouthfeel thing or an actual taste profile.

To be honest I haven't really ventured into Chardonnay since I have actually started drinking wine, but I think (really just guess) it is because previous ones I have tried were way too oakey and offputting. Without having really any experience with Chardonnay, buttery sounds like a quality I would enjoy and am just looking for some clarification on what it is and how it is created.

North316 wrote:Ok I am not sure whether to laugh or be confused. Is droid some actual wine term that I have just never heard of, or is the woot-bots taking control again?

Also Peter, I'm not sure that I have seen a consistent answer on this (or maybe there isn't one), but what exactly is it that makes a Chardonnay "buttery" and is this simply a mouthfeel thing or an actual taste profile.

To be honest I haven't really ventured into Chardonnay since I have actually started drinking wine, but I think (really just guess) it is because previous ones I have tried were way too oakey and offputting. Without having really any experience with Chardonnay, buttery sounds like a quality I would enjoy and am just looking for some clarification on what it is and how it is created.

Answer key:

mother wrote:*Waves his hand horizontally in front of Peter* These are not your whites that I'm looking for. ;)

This inspired Peter's "droid" response. Gotta follow along in your program!

re: "buttery",, here's a place to start: Wiki on MLF

North316 wrote:Ok I am not sure whether to laugh or be confused. Is droid some actual wine term that I have just never heard of, or is the woot-bots taking control again?

Also Peter, I'm not sure that I have seen a consistent answer on this (or maybe there isn't one), but what exactly is it that makes a Chardonnay "buttery" and is this simply a mouthfeel thing or an actual taste profile.

To be honest I haven't really ventured into Chardonnay since I have actually started drinking wine, but I think (really just guess) it is because previous ones I have tried were way too oakey and offputting. Without having really any experience with Chardonnay, buttery sounds like a quality I would enjoy and am just looking for some clarification on what it is and how it is created.

There are people who use "buttery" to describe mouthfeel, but in winespeak it refers to buttery aromas (2,3 butandione, aka diacetyl) produced by malolactic fermentation (MLF). If a wine is left with yeast cells post MLF, the diacetyl is degraded, but if the wine is racked (removed from the yeast sediment) right after MLF it can retain significant amounts of diacetyl. Some wineries do this intentionally.

InFrom wrote:This inspired Peter's "droid" response. Gotta follow along in your program!

re: "buttery",, here's a place to start: Wiki on MLF

Thanks. I didn't see your post prior to responding to the above questions. I read the wiki entry and must say I don't agree with their categorization of malic and lactic acids.

North316 wrote:Ok I am not sure whether to laugh or be confused. Is droid some actual wine term that I have just never heard of, or is the woot-bots taking control again?.

Sorry, nerdy Star Wars reference. The real important technical wine language in the piece is the reference to cat pee on gooseberry.

creekhounds wrote:Sorry, nerdy Star Wars reference. The real important technical wine language in the piece is the reference to cat pee on gooseberry.

Sauvignon blanc has some sulfur containing compounds that are responsible for aromas reminiscent of grass (the kind that grows in lawns), asparagus, cantaloupe melon, gooseberries, and even tomcat pee. These terms are all actually used by winemakers in describing SBs.

SonomaBouliste wrote:Thanks. I didn't see your post prior to responding to the above questions. I read the wiki entry and must say I don't agree with their categorization of malic and lactic acids.

What??? I thought Wiki was the world's second-greatest authority (after Professor Irwin Corey, that is!)

SonomaBouliste wrote:Sauvignon blanc has some sulfur containing compounds that are responsible for aromas reminiscent of grass (the kind that grows in lawns), asparagus, cantaloupe melon, gooseberries, and even tomcat pee. These terms are all actually used by winemakers in describing SBs.

There has been something about most SB's I try that I dislike and just not have been able to pinpoint it. I think in my mind I was likening it the Petrol characteristic some people note in aged Rieslings, but "sulfur" or "cat pee" might just be the golden ticket.

SonomaBouliste wrote:There are people who use "buttery" to describe mouthfeel, but in winespeak it refers to buttery aromas (2,3 butandione, aka diacetyl) produced by malolactic fermentation (MLF). If a wine is left with yeast cells post MLF, the diacetyl is degraded, but if the wine is racked (removed from the yeast sediment) right after MLF it can retain significant amounts of diacetyl. Some wineries do this intentionally.

Peter, if you didn't give such detailed (and great) answers I wouldn't ask you so many questions.

You note it as being an aroma, but this also translate into a flavor profile on the palate?

"If a wine is left with yeast cells post MLF, the diacetyl is degraded"

This is what is referred to as "on the lees", correct?

Is it strictly the yeast that effects the diacetyl after fermentation or does barrel aging v. stainless also have an effect on it?

SonomaBouliste wrote:Sauvignon blanc has some sulfur containing compounds that are responsible for aromas reminiscent of ... gooseberries, and even tomcat pee. These terms are all actually used by winemakers in describing SBs.

The lack of this particular aroma tells me these may be the droids (euphemism for white wines) I am looking for.

(NFN, but when people tell me the SB TASTES like cat pee, I kinda wonder how they know. Aroma, I get, but taste???? eeeeuw.)

North316 wrote:Peter, if you didn't give such detailed (and great) answers I wouldn't ask you so many questions.

You note it as being an aroma, but this also translate into a flavor profile on the palate?

"If a wine is left with yeast cells post MLF, the diacetyl is degraded"

This is what is referred to as "on the lees", correct?

Is it strictly the yeast that effects the diacetyl after fermentation or does barrel aging v. stainless also have an effect on it?

The only things you actually can "taste" are very limited: sweet, tart, bitter, salty, umami. Everything else is perceived through vapors carried into your nose from the back of your throat (retronasal). If you plug your nose so that no air can pass through it, you won't taste anything beyond the five basics listed above. So yes, anything you smell upon sniffing can be tasted/smelled retronasally.
Yes, on the lees, but it doesn't take a maasive amount of yeast to consume the diacetyl. Wine can be racked off fermentation lees, with just a bit light lees, and still lose its diacetyl. Also, some ML bacteria strains produce a lot of diacetyl, some little or none, and this is one of several criteria that winemakers use to choose ML strains.
Stainless vs. barrel doesn't make a big difference.

creekhounds wrote:The lack of this particular aroma tells me these may be the droids (euphemism for white wines) I am looking for.

(NFN, but when people tell me the SB TASTES like cat pee, I kinda wonder how they know. Aroma, I get, but taste???? eeeeuw.)

See my answer to the previous query. Someone who says a wine tastes like cat pee is being pejorative. When we use descriptive terminology to describe wine we are actually saying that there is something in the wine that reminds us of cat pee or cherries or tobacco or whatever, not that it smells exactly like those things. These terms are used as reference points.

I had a Port for the first time last week, so I'm looking forward to trying this!

I really wanted to go in on the CF, but after reading about the shipping notification issues in another thread I held out. Reefer shipping doesn't help much if I can't intercept the wine electronically before delivery attempts in 90+ weather.

That said, I have tons on Chinon to drink, but my cellar balance is getting a bit light on CA wines.

Notes on the Wellington 10' chard.

6/3/2012: Did not try on day 1. These are day 2 notes
Nose and pallate are dominated by green apple, the wine is a very light yellow and is lighter than a typical chard. It has nice acidity but the finish reminds you it is a chard by the nice round mouth feel it leaves you with.

Highly recommended and I typically do not care for this varietal. I really enjoyed the nice light style without all the oak and over extracted fruit. Well done Peter. (9 views)

cortot20 wrote:Notes on the Wellington 10' chard.

6/3/2012: Did not try on day 1. These are day 2 notes
Nose and pallate are dominated by green apple, the wine is a very light yellow and is lighter than a typical chard. It has nice acidity but the finish reminds you it is a chard by the nice round mouth feel it leaves you with.

Highly recommended and I typically do not care for this varietal. I really enjoyed the nice light style without all the oak and over extracted fruit. Well done Peter. (9 views)

Thanks for the notes, mine hasn't even shipped yet (ordered the port).

North316 wrote:Thanks for the notes, mine hasn't even shipped yet (ordered the port).

Mine came thom their spring club shipment.

cortot20 wrote:Notes on the Wellington 10' chard.

6/3/2012: Did not try on day 1. These are day 2 notes
Nose and pallate are dominated by green apple, the wine is a very light yellow and is lighter than a typical chard. It has nice acidity but the finish reminds you it is a chard by the nice round mouth feel it leaves you with.

Highly recommended and I typically do not care for this varietal. I really enjoyed the nice light style without all the oak and over extracted fruit. Well done Peter. (9 views)

Thanks for the nice comments. 2010 was a great year for the earlier ripening varieties. Our 2010 seemed austere early on, but after almost a year of bottle age it is opening up nicely. You're right, it's not heavy, yet it's smooth. I love that it has a light, almost airy mouthfeel.

cortot20 wrote:Mine came thom their spring club shipment.

Well that makes sense. I was wondering why you got special treatment hah.

SonomaBouliste wrote:Thanks for the nice comments. 2011 was a great year for the earlier ripening varieties. Our 2011 seemed austere early on, but after almost a year of bottle age it is opening up nicely. You're right, it's not heavy, yet it's smooth. I love that it has a light, almost airy mouthfeel.

I just received a 1/2 case of the Duchess. What should I expect from these? I'm waiting to open them until after my wife gives birth 1 1/2 months from now. She would be pissed if I got into her whites before she can have them.

cortot20 wrote:I just received a 1/2 case of the Duchess. What should I expect from these? I'm waiting to open them until after my wife gives birth 1 1/2 months from now. She would be pissed if I got into her whites before she can have them.

Oops, I was talking about 2010 Chardonnay. The 2011 hasn't been bottled. 2011 was another late year, similar in many, but not all, ways to 2010. The 2011 Duchess is lively (the 28% Sauvignon blanc is a big part of that). The Roussanne and Chardonnay both bring roundness to the blend, as well as different aromas, and the old vine whites add complexity and liveliness.

SonomaBouliste wrote:Thanks. I didn't see your post prior to responding to the above questions. I read the wiki entry and must say I don't agree with their categorization of malic and lactic acids.

then you are the perfect person to change it, Peter!

I didn't know you made a chard.. I look forward to tasting it next time!

I just noticed that the cork on the '03 Port is slightly raised. In other words, when I gently press down on the foil seal of the '06 I can feel it give, but when I do the same on the '03 I can feel the cork and the foil doesn't budge. Is this just a production anomaly, are all of the '03s like this, or should I be worried that it could've been slightly cooked in transit?

guzmantis wrote:I just noticed that the cork on the '03 Port is slightly raised. In other words, when I gently press down on the foil seal of the '06 I can feel it give, but when I do the same on the '03 I can feel the cork and the foil doesn't budge. Is this just a production anomaly, are all of the '03s like this, or should I be worried that it could've been slightly cooked in transit?

Same on both my '03 Ports as well. Unless we happened to get the exact same case that was identically weirdly partially cooked it's probably a production variance on that bottling run.

klezman wrote:Same on both my '03 Ports as well. Unless we happened to get the exact same case that was identically weirdly partially cooked it's probably a production variance on that bottling run.

That's what I was figuring - thanks for the confirmation! I haven't removed the foil on the '03, but there doesn't appear to be any seepage. And the '06 Port seems perfectly fine.

guzmantis wrote:That's what I was figuring - thanks for the confirmation! I haven't removed the foil on the '03, but there doesn't appear to be any seepage. And the '06 Port seems perfectly fine.

also, Port is somewhat more robust to warmth anyway.