Core Wines Central Coast Mixed Red
$49.99 + $5 shipping
CONDITION: Red
PRODUCTS:
1 2007 Kuyam Petite Sirah
1 2007 C3 Tempranillo
1 2007 Kuyam 13 Moons
CT links above

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Should we assume the blend has a pH of 4, as well?

By the way, 4? I love fruit bombs at times, but 4 sounds extremely high. What's the TA on the three wines, please;

Are almost all woot wines 14% or higher alcohol content?

crystalinfire wrote:Are almost all woot wines 14% or higher alcohol content?

For better or worse, and for debatable reasons, wines from CA are coming in at above 13.5% almost always. From this region, and surrounding regions (Paso), a dry wine below 14% is almost unheard of.

TA is around 4. Alcohols are irrelevant. It's all about balance. Don't get caught up with random numbers.

2007 Kuyam 13 Moons

Varietal: This is a blend of 38% Merlot, 37% Cabernet Sauvignon, 13% Petite Verdot, 9% Cab Franc and 4% Merlot.

Is the 2nd merlot a typo? Or is there just 42% merlot in the blend?

corewine wrote:TA is around 4. Alcohols are irrelevant. It's all about balance. Don't get caught up with random numbers.

It might be irrelevant to you ... You can taste this before spending your hard earned dollars on it. I don't have that luxury. For me, knowing the composition of the wine is important ... Especially when I see something like ph of 4 that indicates "balance" might not be apparent. In this case, TA is hardly "random"

tommythecat78 wrote:2007 Kuyam 13 Moons

Varietal: This is a blend of 38% Merlot, 37% Cabernet Sauvignon, 13% Petite Verdot, 9% Cab Franc and 4% Merlot.

Is the 2nd merlot a typo? Or is there just 42% merlot in the blend?

Tommy, the write up says "2 different clones of merlot" so im assuming that's it. But then why didn't they likewise break out the Cab Sav?

$79 for the trio on the Core website, $63 for club members so this is about 40% off retail and 20% off the club price. Rhone Report gave the PS a score of 88 (2 years ago) while Richard Jennings gave a score of 89 to the 13 Moons on CT.

I'm tempted...

tommythecat78 wrote:2007 Kuyam 13 Moons

Varietal: This is a blend of 38% Merlot, 37% Cabernet Sauvignon, 13% Petite Verdot, 9% Cab Franc and 4% Merlot.

Is the 2nd merlot a typo? Or is there just 42% merlot in the blend?

I would not be surprised if the 4% is actually Mourvedre.

EDIT: the description mentions Malbec but it's not listed in the percentages, so the 4% must be Malbec.

spdrcr05 wrote:It might be irrelevant to you ... You can taste this before spending your hard earned dollars on it. I don't have that luxury. For me, knowing the composition of the wine is important ... Especially when I see something like ph of 4 that indicates "balance" might not be apparent. In this case, TA is hardly "random"

Cosign this.

That was a pretty disappointing answer/response to the question about numbers.

Cyradia wrote:Cosign this.

That was a pretty disappointing answer/response to the question about numbers.

Agreed. Not the cooperative, friendly, encouraging winery comment to draw customers into clicking on that gold button. I personally like knowing the ETOH %, as do many others.

I tasted through a bunch of Core wines a couple of years ago. I did not find them hot or stewed. They did have that feeling of glycerol--oily and an impression of sweetness. That's what you get from high alcohol and low acid, I suppose, but well-made in their house style.

Incidentally, Parker has stated that the long-lived 1959, 1989 and 1990 Haut Brion all had a pH around 3.9. Apparently it is possible some wine can age on tannin and extract with low acidity, though I'm still of the belief that acidity is usually an important factor.

Is anyone really going to lay these down for 20 years? I doubt it. If you like viscous, mouth-filling wines, then these are a good option. If you like something more mouth-watering and mid-weight, there are going to be better options.

gcdyersb wrote:I tasted through a bunch of Core wines a couple of years ago. I did not find them hot or stewed. They did have that feeling of glycerol--oily and an impression of sweetness. That's what you get from high alcohol and low acid, I suppose, but well-made in their house style.

Incidentally, Parker has stated that the long-lived 1959, 1989 and 1990 Haut Brion all had a pH around 3.9. Apparently it is possible some wine can age on tannin and extract with low acidity, though I'm still of the belief that acidity is usually an important factor.

Is anyone really going to lay these down for 20 years? I doubt it. If you like viscous, mouth-filling wines, then these are a good option. If you like something more mouth-watering and mid-weight, there are going to be better options.

Balance comes completely from the vineyard. Wines with high tannin should be balanced with higher pH's. Especially if they are to be consumed in the short term. I don't make these wines to age for 20 years. There are wines in my lineup that do fit that description though.

harmonious1 wrote:I would not be surprised if the 4% is actually Mourvedre.

EDIT: the description mentions Malbec but it's not listed in the percentages, so the 4% must be Malbec.

Malbec is correct. But I do love Mourvedre

I have no interest in a table wine that is not a good food wine. With high alcohol and pH these wines will not be good food wines no matter how long you cellar them or decant them. Not for me.

Just thought I'd add my $.02 here. I think what Dave might be getting at is that too often, people look at numbers and make decisions solely based in this. Those of you who have done your homework and understand how the numbers may apply to a specific wine sit in the minority of wine folks, not the majority. And just to be clear, I'm not defending Dave and his response above - just giving a slightly different viewpoint.

One more thing - with many of the varieties Dave makes (and I do as well), it is nearly impossible to have wonderful tasting wines at really low alc levels. I know there is a trend towards lower alcohol wines, but a 'low alcohol petite sirah' for instance is an oxymoron - unless the winery is 'spoofulating it' to make it taste better. Same thing with zinfandel, and, in many cases, cabernet ta boot. Certain varieties, such as petite, grenache, mourvedre, and even cab show waaaay too much greeness and bitter/tannins when underripe, and lead to 'backwards' wines that are simply not that enjoyable to drink.

Now take this for what it's worth . . . and please don't shoot the messenger (-:

Cheers!

I am not exactly defending the statements made that might be 'offending' people, but I am saying to everybody 'don't be so snobbish'. Personally, I have been guilty of that before, and am trying to do better. (And I still owe WineDavid an apology about comments on the Havens wines).

Everyone tastes things differently. The numbers people have asked for are just general info of the wine. And in some respects I have to agree with the statement that taste is all that is important.

However, some people actually do understand that the numbers are a general indication of what they might get out of the wine - based on prior experience and tracking of other wines they have had. But most people will have a very tough time telling the difference between a ph of 3.75 and 3.85 if the wine is well crafted.

High alcohol vs. low - well, I have had some European and Cali Zins that hit 16% alc. But, they were well crafted and after a moment of heat (that first hit of the alcohol), the wine was a good drinker with no indications of how high the alcohol % was. I have also had some low % wines that weren't well crafted, and couldn't stand a few years of cellaring - so it goes both ways.

To Corewine (who I am assuming is a winery rep): we have _some_ very educated drinkers, who use the numbers to 'pre-judge' whether they want to spend money on a wine they have never tasted. They have an idea of what they like, so numbers for them are important.

To everybody else: We haven't seen these wines on Woot before (at least I don't think so), so give them a little slack. How are we to find the gems, if we don't explore outside the box a little?

wkdpanda wrote:To Corewine (who I am assuming is a winery rep): we have _some_ very educated drinkers, who use the numbers to 'pre-judge' whether they want to spend money on a wine they have never tasted. They have an idea of what they like, so numbers for them are important.

I was going to post something similar. I hope the winery doesn't take our questions as offensive; they're merely a way for us to get an idea of a wine that we haven't seen here before. However, I think that the winery needs to understand that we do have questions that the vast majority of tasting room visitors wouldn't understand (which isn't a bad thing, of course), but we would like our questions answered so that we may better judge whether or not we should spend our money blindly.

Like I said in my first post, I love fruit bombs. I would just like to know how such a high pH will affect these wines vis a vis other wines that I have had in the past. Is there extensive oak aging that assits with this? Do they add TA? Crazy grapes? Etc.

I tried the Tempranillo from Core before and I can tell you this wine is a fruit nuclear bomb from Southern California. I tried it with dried fruit, cold cuts of meat (Serrano Ham and Mortadella) with Sourdough bread and Mahon cheese and I can tell you that my friends and I found this particular wine one of the best ones in California.You know life is too short to drink bad wine which is why I can not stop drinking Tempranillo and the other Core wonder boy the Red Table wine. Yummy yummy and for this price is even better.

Winedavid39 wrote:Good morning and welcome. Can you elaborate on this comment?

Honestly I make wine by taste and rarely use numbers. I'll calibrate my palate around harvest time to brix and pH. When it gets closer to harvest I pick on flavors only. Luckily I've worked with a very balanced vineyard. Numbers are usually in balance. Most people never come close to guessing my pH's or TA's because of the tannins. They usually guess around 3.7-3.8 pH.

Hope this doesnt turn into Sunce part deux

coyote131965 wrote:I tried the Tempranillo from Core before and I can tell you this wine is a fruit nuclear bomb from Southern California. I tried it with dried fruit, cold cuts of meat (Serrano Ham and Mortadella) with Sourdough bread and Mahon cheese and I can tell you that my friends and I found this particular wine one of the best ones in California.You know life is too short to drink bad wine which is why I can not stop drinking Tempranillo and the other Core wonder boy the Red Table wine. Yummy yummy and for this price is even better.

Tasting room? Wine club? Restaurant?

Are you buying this set?

kylemittskus wrote:Tasting room? Wine club? Restaurant?

Are you buying this set?

He is a wine agent, as per his participation in a previous Alex Sotelo offering.

kylemittskus wrote:Tasting room? Wine club? Restaurant?

Are you buying this set?

I have a tasting room in the Santa Maria Valley, a couple of wine oriented special selection clubs and do private barrel tastings at the winery.

corewine wrote:I have a tasting room in the Santa Maria Valley, a couple of wine oriented special selection clubs and do private barrel tastings at the winery.

I'll bet the barrel tastings are a blast, I've always wanted to do one. I guess in a way, I have - a local winery's tasting room serves their wines on tap from the barrels.

corewine wrote:Honestly I make wine by taste and rarely use numbers. I'll calibrate my palate around harvest time to brix and pH. When it gets closer to harvest I pick on flavors only. Luckily I've worked with a very balanced vineyard. Numbers are usually in balance. Most people never come close to guessing my pH's or TA's because of the tannins. They usually guess around 3.7-3.8 pH.

Awesome... I respect that. Many of our favorite wine makers speak of tasting grapes to decide when to pick. However as I said, we can't taste your wines before we buy them (hint hint WD .. LABRATS!!!). If your "numbers are usually in balance" .. what are they?

I really miss the labrats as the previous poster already stated. Please bring them back. I definitely buy less wine without them. Plus I still hope that I will receive a random bottle of wine in the mail.

I would love to hear more about these wines. But after waiting all day it appears we aren't going to hear much from people who have tasted these.

This has been a very important and seminal discussion of a huge problem with some California wines. Here we have seen a seller state that alcohol content doesn't matter. Most of the wines sold here recently are "fruit bombs" with a big opening and then the hope that you won't be able to taste the rest. Having said what they said above they can't take it back. Most people prefer the balance of something in the 13.5% range. You don't see the finest California or French wines come in much above that.The reason is clear. What is not clear is the vintner not seeing the mistake and continuing to make fruit bombs.

lollie4 wrote:This has been a very important and seminal discussion of a huge problem with some California wines. Here we have seen a seller state that alcohol content doesn't matter. Most of the wines sold here recently are "fruit bombs" with a big opening and then the hope that you won't be able to taste the rest. Having said what they said above they can't take it back. Most people prefer the balance of something in the 13.5% range. You don't see the finest California or French wines come in much above that.The reason is clear. What is not clear is the vintner not seeing the mistake and continuing to make fruit bombs.

Wow, you say a lot of wrong stuff here! Well done.

First, please don't presume to speak for "most people" or their preferences.

Second, unless you have bought and tasted most of the offers sold here recently (doubtful), you don't know if they're fruit bombs or not. I bet I can find as many examples representing both sides of that coin.

Third, have you seen the alcohol percentages from CdP and hell, most of the Rhone, some of the recent BDXs, BdMs, some of the newer world-styled Barolos, etc. etc. etc.? A lot of them are coming in above 14%, some of them well above. And "finest" CA wines is certainly a debatable topic. I can name at least 5 wineries from CA that are generally very well-respected, score highly (for whatever that's worth to you), and easily top 15%.

Lastly, why is it a mistake to make a fruit bomb? Because you don't like them? Or rather, what gives you the authority to tell this wine maker, or any one at all, what he/she should or shouldn't do or say that what he/she did do is a mistake? Get over yourself!

It's cool to have a different perspective, and really cool to have an academic discussion about wine and changes to the wine world, etc. It's not cool to make at least three blanked comments that have little to no basis and assume that everyone is like you or everything is like you think it is.

Bravo!

pm for you

I've been wondering whats up all day, and wouldn't you know it, there is a full moon tonight. That explains alot.

kylemittskus wrote: It's not cool to make at least three blanked comments that have little to no basis and assume that everyone is like you or everything is like you think it is.

Agreed. This offering doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but if I had a chance to taste it I would gladly do so with an open mind. Without tasting I think I'll pass but I have no basis to insult the winemaker.

I have to say I was not going to buy this wine... but...
After all this fuss, I just have to try it for myself and see. I'm in for 1.

Mr Winemaker - GL with this WooT and "cheers"

To *all* commenters ... May the WooT be with you.

:-)

spdrcr05 wrote:Awesome... I respect that. Many of our favorite wine makers speak of tasting grapes to decide when to pick. However as I said, we can't taste your wines before we buy them (hint hint WD .. LABRATS!!!). If your "numbers are usually in balance" .. what are they?

For SB Highlands and Alta Mesa the pH's are 3.8-4.2 and Alc 14.2-15.5 depending on the variety. I rarely check anything else. Remember the vineyard is between 3000-3200 feet in elevation. 8-12" rain a year and very low relative humidity. Very similar climate to some of the Spanish regions.

I know that it is awfully late in the offering to be posting new comments, but I am a fan of the artwork on the label. I there a back-story? Thanks for the input!

kylemittskus wrote:Wow, you say a lot of wrong stuff here! Well done.

First, please don't presume to speak for "most people" or their preferences.

Second, unless you have bought and tasted most of the offers sold here recently (doubtful), you don't know if they're fruit bombs or not. I bet I can find as many examples representing both sides of that coin.

Third, have you seen the alcohol percentages from CdP and hell, most of the Rhone, some of the recent BDXs, BdMs, some of the newer world-styled Barolos, etc. etc. etc.? A lot of them are coming in above 14%, some of them well above. And "finest" CA wines is certainly a debatable topic. I can name at least 5 wineries from CA that are generally very well-respected, score highly (for whatever that's worth to you), and easily top 15%.

Lastly, why is it a mistake to make a fruit bomb? Because you don't like them? Or rather, what gives you the authority to tell this wine maker, or any one at all, what he/she should or shouldn't do or say that what he/she did do is a mistake? Get over yourself!

It's cool to have a different perspective, and really cool to have an academic discussion about wine and changes to the wine world, etc. It's not cool to make at least three blanked comments that have little to no basis and assume that everyone is like you or everything is like you think it is.