cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
kylemittskus wrote:Here's my argument: private insurance with a huge out-of-pocket for a family of four should be the cost of the cell phone bill for that family of four plus a bit. I understand it doesn't cost that now, but I think it could. Here's how: we start using insurance for things that you use insurance for normally. You scratch your car. You don't call insurance. You need to see your doctor, you don't call insurance. People are using health insurance like a free service because that's how the system is built right now. Hospitals are insanely crowded with people who have a sore throat or a fever. If my cancer was way worse (I'm so lucky and glad it wasn't, obviously), and I had to pay $10k for the treatment, I'd be perfectly ok with that. I would set up payments and I'd be glad that the best care in the state cost me $10k. Insurance should be for drastic scenarios, not a scratch on your car.



How do you limit that? People are not on the whole inherently self-limiting.

If you're an ER doctor or insurance adjuster, do you turn away those with ONLY a 101 fever? 102?

I think that the design of ACA is meant to do approximately what you describe. If everyone has a full featured insurance, then everyone can have a general practitioner, and people can truly go to the doctor as opposed to the ER for minor things.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

joelsisk


quality posts: 9 Private Messages joelsisk
cmaldoon wrote: With the profit capped at 10% (also an ACA provision if I’m quoting it correctly) the only way they can net more is to attract more customers…this would seem to work in the public’s favor.



Sorry, also just catching up.

The law actually states that at least 85% of premiums collected must be used to directly benefit those covered (pay claims). Some people erroneously assume that means they have 15% profit. However, that 15% has to cover all operating costs (sales, customer service, billing, collections, etc) and then whatever is left can be profit. The interesting thing that has occurred is that it really has pushed most of the smaller insurers out of the market because they don't have the economies of scale to support the financial model. Even if they were only making <4% profit, if they only spent 80% of premiums on services they would actually have to return the 5% of the premiums and thereby have an overall loss! (did everyone get their premium refund last year like we did? which of course becomes taxable income)

joelsisk


quality posts: 9 Private Messages joelsisk
chemvictim wrote:Yeah, but I wonder if they really do charge the uninsured those crazy prices. They probably have a different price for the uninsured. We have docs around here, maybe they would know.



The funny thing is that if you come in and say "I'm uninsured", they would immediately reduce the price by xx% (often times close to 50%). At least before PPACA, this was common behavior. So yes, there was different pricing.

joelsisk


quality posts: 9 Private Messages joelsisk
klezman wrote:I'd argue we've got 3/2 the bureaucracy here. Every insurance company uses a significantly larger slice of their cash flow for administration and salaries than state-run systems. Medicare and the VA are the two most efficient delivery vehicles for health care in this country based on percentage of dollars actually going to care. Let alone the added administrative burden in doctors/hospitals/etc having to keep track of each insurance company's different procedures, forms, dates, etc.



Again, economies of scale wrt Medicare and VA.

Actually that last part is one of the relative benefits to the insurers... they need to provide overall fewer plan choices to satisfy the law. That reduces some of the complexities of what is covered by which plan. Now it is more simply HOW MUCH is covered by insurance vs insured (bronze, silver, gold, etc).

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
joelsisk wrote:Sorry, also just catching up.

The law actually states that at least 85% of premiums collected must be used to directly benefit those covered (pay claims). Some people erroneously assume that means they have 15% profit. However, that 15% has to cover all operating costs (sales, customer service, billing, collections, etc) and then whatever is left can be profit. The interesting thing that has occurred is that it really has pushed most of the smaller insurers out of the market because they don't have the economies of scale to support the financial model. Even if they were only making <4% profit, if they only spent 80% of premiums on services they would actually have to return the 5% of the premiums and thereby have an overall loss! (did everyone get their premium refund last year like we did? which of course becomes taxable income)



Thanks for the correction. I have edited my previous post to reflect this and the possibility for complaining EITHER WAY on the 85% provision.

WRT to the refund...I would stridently argue that it is NOT income, it is refund. Unless it was paid for initially from pre-tax funds, it has already been taxed once.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

joelsisk


quality posts: 9 Private Messages joelsisk
cmaldoon wrote:
WRT to the refund...I would stridently argue that it is NOT income, it is refund. Unless it was paid for initially from pre-tax funds, it has already been taxed once.



Yes, pre-tax dollars out of a paycheck. Isn't that the way most of the folks pay insurance premiums?

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
joelsisk wrote:Yes, pre-tax dollars out of a paycheck. Isn't that the way most of the folks pay insurance premiums?



I certainly do! I just want to make sure that those who pay premiums post-tax don't get re-taxed.

Also, given I pay a total of just $1300 oop per year for my insurance, no return would be big enough to make a significant impact to my taxes luckily.

2014 - 20 Btl. Fjellene (10 bot), Urraca Chard (10 bot)
Last purchase: 5/3/14

2013 - 75 btl. 2012 - 98 btl. 2011 - 112 btl. 2010 - 30 btl.
My Cellar

rjquillin


quality posts: 174 Private Messages rjquillin

Just to stir up things for the new week, I just visited the site to review my healthcare costs for the coming year.

36+% increase.

Yeah.

I'm really liking what ACA is doing to us.

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
rjquillin wrote:Just to stir up things for the new week, I just visited the site to review my healthcare costs for the coming year.

36+% increase.

Yeah.

I'm really liking what ACA is doing to us.



I'm not sure that I have heard of a single person who has saved money, without increasing deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. Granted, I'm only reading posts by a very small number of people, but every single person has reported an increase in costs.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:I'm not sure that I have heard of a single person who has saved money, without increasing deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. Granted, I'm only reading posts by a very small number of people, but every single person has reported an increase in costs.



I checked before and I couldn't find an identical plan, but closest approximation looked about 25% cheaper than what I have now. Of course I tried to go back and reproduce it but the NV site isn't working! LOL

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:I checked before and I couldn't find an identical plan, but closest approximation looked about 25% cheaper than what I have now. Of course I tried to go back and reproduce it but the NV site isn't working! LOL



Oh. Woohoo, then!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:Oh. Woohoo, then!



It's not really cheaper, because right now I'm paying to cover kids I don't have, while the exchange takes family size into account. If I had 2 kids, it would come out about the same.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus

Circling back to gun control and "guns don't kill people" and such . . .

A report was released on the Sandy Hook shooting. The shooter hadn't left his room for three days prior to the shooting. His windows were covered with black plastic. He had an obsession with mass shootings and he had an Excel sheet ranking them based on various factors. This kid clearly, obviously, and unequivocally had serious, untreated mental issues. And guess what his mom was going to buy him for Christmas. If you guessed a gun, you're a winner.

I still don't know where I stand on gun control/limitations/bullet maximums, etc. What I do know is that in situations like this, I place ZERO blame on guns. I place a minimal amount of blame on the kid who was obviously unable to make cognizant, intellectually sound decisions. And even though some people don't want to speak ill of the dead, I think this kid's mom is almost entirely responsible. SWMBO disagrees with me. Thoughts?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
kylemittskus wrote:I think this kid's mom is almost entirely responsible. SWMBO disagrees with me. Thoughts?



Sandy Hook shooter was only communicating with his mother by email. I doubt she knew what he was obsessing over. Obviously if she thought he had violent tendencies she wouldn't be contemplating giving him a gun. She paid the ultimate price for that misjudgment.

Our society deals very poorly with mental illness. Combine that with our deep love affair with guns and guess what you get? It is the price we pay.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
dlschier wrote:Sandy Hook shooter was only communicating with his mother by email. I doubt she knew what he was obsessing over. Obviously if she thought he had violent tendencies she wouldn't be contemplating giving him a gun. She paid the ultimate price for that misjudgment.

Our society deals very poorly with mental illness. Combine that with our deep love affair with guns and guess what you get? It is the price we pay.



We don't know what she knew and didn't know. What she should have known is of the utmost importance, however. Her son had his windows covered. He was only communicating with her via email. Etc. And you say it's society's fault that his mom gave him access to lots of guns and was going to buy him more?

It's horrible that she died. It's horrible it happened. Without question. I think that the "blame everyone else" attitude is part of the issue, though. I guess my larger point is if everyone took responsibility for their own house instead of placing blame on every single other factor, we might be better off. And when everyone else jumps on board and blames everyone else too, it just cycles that mentality.

Following the Columbine shooting, people blamed a lot of people and factors for the actions of those kids. Marilyn Manson sang songs. The kids' parents didn't know their kids were making bombs in the garage and hiding guns in their closets. "Let's all blame the former" just seems like a bad stance to take.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
kylemittskus wrote: And you say it's society's fault



I didn't say it was anyone's fault. You said it was primarily the Mom's fault even though "we don't know what she knew". Guess it feels better if you have someone to blame?

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
dlschier wrote:I didn't say it was anyone's fault. You said it was primarily the Mom's fault even though "we don't know what she knew". Guess it feels better if you have someone to blame?



It was her duty to society to know. IMO

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
dlschier wrote:I didn't say it was anyone's fault. You said it was primarily the Mom's fault even though "we don't know what she knew". Guess it feels better if you have someone to blame?



It doesn't feel better to have someone to blame. It's just a fact that there is someone/are people to blame. If you give the car keys to a person whom you think may be drunk and that person crashes and kills someone, you're to blame, along with the dumbshit who drove drunk.

To put it another way, are you ok with my giving my son (I don't actually have a son) access to guns when I know that his windows are covered with black plastic, he's currently displaying other odd behavior, and he has locked himself in his room for three days and will only communicate with me via email?

My point isn't to blame this mom. She's just the current microcosmic example of what is, in my not humble opinion, a serious issue in our society. It's an issue that extends well past these very rare shooting incidents.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:Circling back to gun control and "guns don't kill people" and such . . .

A report was released on the Sandy Hook shooting. The shooter hadn't left his room for three days prior to the shooting. His windows were covered with black plastic. He had an obsession with mass shootings and he had an Excel sheet ranking them based on various factors. This kid clearly, obviously, and unequivocally had serious, untreated mental issues. And guess what his mom was going to buy him for Christmas. If you guessed a gun, you're a winner.

I still don't know where I stand on gun control/limitations/bullet maximums, etc. What I do know is that in situations like this, I place ZERO blame on guns. I place a minimal amount of blame on the kid who was obviously unable to make cognizant, intellectually sound decisions. And even though some people don't want to speak ill of the dead, I think this kid's mom is almost entirely responsible. SWMBO disagrees with me. Thoughts?



I can't imagine what it's like to have a screwed up kid. I don't know if she tried to get him help or not. But I can't fathom how any person would think it's a cool idea to give this kid a gun. It's nuts.

All that being said, he did it. He's responsible. I'd place some blame on her too, but not all of it. Where was the rest of his family?

chipgreen


quality posts: 187 Private Messages chipgreen

The kid was a bad seed. Her biggest mistake was thinking she could handle him herself. She probably gained confidence and felt more secure as a single mother when she became proficient with firearms and was hoping to help her son gain similar benefits. Maybe break him out of his shell a little. I'm sure she meant well but as mentioned above she horribly misjudged the situation.

This kid had very serious mental issues. When he previously attended school he would often sit motionless and non-responsive for long periods of time. His will was apparently stronger than that of his mother, who allowed him to dictate the means of communication, physical boundaries (she wasn't allowed in his room) and even forced her to get rid of a cat because he didn't like it.

As mentally disturbed as this kid was, I still believe he was intelligent, focused and determined. He knew exactly what he was doing and understood the consequences. I put the majority of the blame on him but certainly have to give some of the credit to his misguided mother.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
chipgreen wrote:As mentally disturbed as this kid was, I still believe he was intelligent, focused and determined. He knew exactly what he was doing and understood the consequences. I put the majority of the blame on him but certainly have to give some of the credit to his misguided mother.



You and I started from opposing assumptions. I'm not sure he was every actually evaluated so we may never know. If he had schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, DID, or one or more of a couple other psych diseases/disorders, legally, he could be found not guilty of his actions. Morally is a different issue for a different forum. If he had a personality disorder, drug induced psychosis, ODD, or a large number of other disorders, he is legally responsible for his actions. Morally, same as above.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjquillin


quality posts: 174 Private Messages rjquillin

Just lurking here, but...

Am I the only one, or in a minority, that has remained ignorant of some of these details others seem comfortable with?

...interesting discussion, carry on.

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
rjquillin wrote:Just lurking here, but...

Am I the only one, or in a minority, that has remained ignorant of some of these details others seem comfortable with?

...interesting discussion, carry on.



I'm lost. Do you mean you haven't heard these details until now?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjquillin


quality posts: 174 Private Messages rjquillin
kylemittskus wrote:I'm lost. Do you mean you haven't heard these details until now?

Precisely.
This one just hasn't been on the radar for me, more of a media distraction. This may seem harsh, and while this was tragic in numerous ways, I see it as having far less impact on our country than other items the media seems to chose to ignore, because they lack the emotional flash perhaps, but will be far more destructive to our liberty, freedom and historical way of life.

Gun control; yes, I could go on about it but from what I've read I think we'd pretty much agree on most points.

Why are we no longer talking about Nidan and Fort Hood, where there were many warnings, but they were ignored, likely for PC reasons?

What has happened with gun running Fast and Furious? How many have been killed while Holder gave tacit approval of the operation?

What about Bengazi? Will the truth of that operation and the failure to protect our ambassador and soldiers be told?

What about the assault and intimidation of the Press when they do chose to report; the seizure of Attkisson's files?

Yes, this shooting was tragic, as were others; most in "gun free" areas...

Nope, not been keeping up on this one.

CT

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:You and I started from opposing assumptions. I'm not sure he was every actually evaluated so we may never know. If he had schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, DID, or one or more of a couple other psych diseases/disorders, legally, he could be found not guilty of his actions. Morally is a different issue for a different forum. If he had a personality disorder, drug induced psychosis, ODD, or a large number of other disorders, he is legally responsible for his actions. Morally, same as above.



He has aspergers. People with aspergers have a disproportionately high incidence of schizophrenia. My stepkid has aspergers. Smartest and dumbest person I've ever known. I don't let him play realistically violent games because he has problems with reality. He keeps trying to talk my dad into taking him hunting. feast.no

I don't own knives, I don't own guns, I'm constantly in his ear about how to treat people because left to his own devices, he'd probably be a sociopath. From what I've read people with the disorder completely lack empathy and that's been my experience. He's a good kid but he doesn't understand other people's emotions at all. Like at all so he tends to isolate from the rest of us. Sounds like this kid was the same way but without someone to make sure he wasn't drifting too far.

giblet feasting impulse control too.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus

I really appreciate the insight, BowTie. I didn't know the schizophrenia/Aspergers connection other than the average likelihood of comorbidity between all pysch disroders with each other.

@Ron: gotcha. I completely understand. I think my issue is that this attitude is so common and so counterproductive. And the "blame everything other than the problem" thinking causes thinking that affects other things that I care about or know are important, even if not completely involving me.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjquillin


quality posts: 174 Private Messages rjquillin

Also thanks to bowtie, not a condition I had any reason to know anything about.
And Kyle, complete agreement; it's always the other guy's fault. I call bravo sierra.
We are responsible for our own actions, tempered with a bit of bowtie, at least that's how I was raised.

CT

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:I really appreciate the insight, BowTie. I didn't know the schizophrenia/Aspergers connection other than the average likelihood of comorbidity between all pysch disroders with each other.

@Ron: gotcha. I completely understand. I think my issue is that this attitude is so common and so counterproductive. And the "blame everything other than the problem" thinking causes thinking that affects other things that I care about or know are important, even if not completely involving me.



When it came out the kid was an Aspie I was about exactly zero shocked. Now, Aspies are not generally known for violence so don't go thinking they're dangerous. In fact, most are passive to a fault. My kid won't tell me things like we're out of milk (I can't drink it so I dont' track it) or I'm out of bodywash/deodorant/shampoo (I'm bald and we use different bodywash). He'll literally go without instead of just saying hey, I need this. It's aggravating.

However, I can completely understand how a kid with that condition can become so divorced from reality and depressed (another wonderful co-occurrence)that something like that becomes an option. Biggest thing to keep in mind is that Aspies don't think like you do, so while the thought of killing kids would appall most people, it may very well be a perfectly logical option for him. "I'm obsessed with mass shootings (Aspies have MAJOR obsessions, my kid's is Lego, Star Wars, and Video Games) and feel like carrying one out is what I should do, based on my obsession. Obviously, I want MY mass shooting to be spectacular, therefore logically, shooting a bunch of little kids is the only real option.

Again, cant' stress this enough, this is massively Atypical Aspie behavior (from what I've read), but I can see how someone with the disorder gets there.

Edit: Sparky couldn't have picked a better time to post this little bit of genius on facebook.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
bhodilee wrote:

Again, cant' stress this enough, this is massively Atypical Aspie behavior (from what I've read), but I can see how someone with the disorder gets there.



Thanks for an excellent description of the nature of aspburgers. Wondering is this info is affecting anyones conclusion on the original question of where does the burden of the blame lie?

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
dlschier wrote:Thanks for an excellent description of the nature of aspburgers. Wondering is this info is affecting anyones conclusion on the original question of where does the burden of the blame lie?



Ultimately, he knew right from wrong. It's not a disorder that makes you unable to differentiate between the two, so the blame falls squarely with the kid. I don't think his parents helped him out though. They allowed him to sink to this level and they kept things around that he used to commit the act.

I have no issues with people owning guns, but I know my kid has giblet impulse control and problems expressing his anger (holds it in until it boils over). For these reasons, nary a gun or knife larger than a Chef's knife (kept until recently in a locked kitchen drawer) in my house. Though in my single days I had a collection of swords/knives cause, well I have no clue why looking back. We'll blame it on my history degree. Anyway, none of those things made their way to my home when my wife and I began cohabiting.

Also worth pointing out, kids with Aspergers get bullied. A lot. It sucks, but honestly, I get it. I keep trying to explain to my kid the reason people at school treat him like they do is because of the way he reacts. If I was a bully, I'd bully him. He reacts in exactly the way a bully would want. Rants, raves, cries, whathaveyou. I can't convince him though that if he just lets it slide they'll stop.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
dlschier wrote:Thanks for an excellent description of the nature of aspburgers. Wondering is this info is affecting anyones conclusion on the original question of where does the burden of the blame lie?



I hadn't heard that he had Aspergers. Knowing that, I think it's pretty clear that he is responsible for his actions and had the mental capability to understand right and wrong. In no way does that mean that the mom is exculpated from making STUPID ASS decisions and that I still absolutely disagree with your "blame society" comment earlier.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus

Also, fast food workers are striking for $30k/yr (full time). That's quite a demand, IMO.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:Also, fast food workers are striking for $30k/yr (full time). That's quite a demand, IMO.



I don't see that happening, but best of luck to them I guess.

rjquillin


quality posts: 174 Private Messages rjquillin

Rather seems like this minimum wage escalation is doing little but decreasing the number of jobs for entry level labor; essentially high school age workers.
A "minimum wage" is not and never was intended to be a "living wage", until now it seems.

My first job was at minimum wage, and I remember my first raise, when shortly after I got my job the rate was increased. From $1.25 to $1.35/hr.
Yup, high school and living at home. It's what minimum wage was all about.

CT

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
kylemittskus wrote:I still absolutely disagree with your "blame society" comment earlier.



Looking back I guess I verred off from your original specific blame question. As a whole I don't think our society deals well with metal illness which is frequently at the root of these rare but horrific incidnets.

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
rjquillin wrote:Rather seems like this minimum wage escalation is doing little but decreasing the number of jobs for entry level labor; essentially high school age workers.
A "minimum wage" is not and never was intended to be a "living wage", until now it seems.

My first job was at minimum wage, and I remember my first raise, when shortly after I got my job the rate was increased. From $1.25 to $1.35/hr.
Yup, high school and living at home. It's what minimum wage was all about.



This article says the same, that minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage. However, it also says that the average age of a fast food worker is 29. Entry level seems to be all there is for a lot of people.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
dlschier wrote:Looking back I guess I verred off from your original specific blame question. As a whole I don't think our society deals well with metal illness which is frequently at the root of these rare but horrific incidnets.



I'd call Aspergers a hidden illness. Unless you knew someone had it, you'd probably just think they were weird. Basically, that bazinga guy from that show about the smart people is essentially playing an Aspie (though he claims not to be). I think the movie Adam does a pretty good job of explaining it. Plus, it's a really good movie!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 230 Private Messages kylemittskus
dlschier wrote:Looking back I guess I verred off from your original specific blame question. As a whole I don't think our society deals well with metal illness which is frequently at the root of these rare but horrific incidnets.



About this, we absolutely agree. The general populations understanding of the most common psych disorders is pathetic, but understandable. If you don't study something, how are you to know about it. However, these same people completely disregard the research and opinions of those who have spent their lives studying these disorders. Two easy, and sad, examples: the still hard-sell that addiction is a disease. The entire criminal system is based upon the idea that addiction is specifically NOT a disease. The other one that makes me absolutely insane is the entire autism movement that has sprung up in the past 15 years. Vaccinations, mis- and way over-diagnoses, stupid research routes wasting money, etc. I'll stop now before my head explodes.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
chemvictim wrote:This article says the same, that minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage. However, it also says that the average age of a fast food worker is 29. Entry level seems to be all there is for a lot of people.



I think it's disingenuous to call it a "minimum" wage. This makes it sound like this is "minimum" it takes to live on as opposed to this is the "minimum" an employer is required to pay. Not sure what else you'd call it though. Regardless, some jobs are just not worth 30k a year to start and your typical Fast Food lifer isn't worth it (sorry, that's not PC!).

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj

On the aspergers stuff. My son has been diagnosed a number of ways over the years, including aspergers. I just want to make a few points that could be germane to the topic at hand.

Aspergers is not a cut-and-dried diagnosis, like some medical diagnoses are. Mental issues are all over the place, with people at different points on multiple spectrums (spectra?). My son shows some classical aspergers symptoms but deviates strongly on others. He has poor impulse control (check that box), but has plenty enough empathy that he would never even consider killing anyone (that sub-box doesn't get checked). He gets completely obsessed by things (mostly games these days), but has no problem discerning what is reality and what is not.

These disorders are difficult for professionals to sort out - like I said, I've seen a lot of different diagnoses over the years. Untrained people will have an even more difficult time sorting them out, and what they might mean or lead to. Untrained people who might not be very sharp, or who might have mental issues themselves, or might be too close to the situation or too removed from it to see things clearly - well, I'm sure you can see where I'm going.

A lot of the mental disorders are truly genetic - they aren't just a case of someone "not trying hard enough", or someone who "needs a swift kick in the behind". Society in general has not internalized this fact, and therefore misunderstands many of the problems that stem from these genetic disorders. The mom may have been oblivious (I haven't followed this specific case that closely), but as far as I can tell the mom did not pull the trigger or knowingly contribute to the trigger being pulled. And I have a huge problem with a claim that any individual action is "society's fault", no matter what it is. Maybe someone can come up with a counterexample that proves me wrong.

Individual fault lies with the individual, but can only go as far as that individual's comprehension. If he knew that what he was doing was reprehensible, then the fault lies there. If the mom pushed him in that direction then fault is shared, but simply not suspecting that he could do such a thing because he communicated by email and kept the windows covered presumes a before-the-fact causative connection that can only really be made after the fact, and even then doesn't really stand up to close scrutiny.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?