mother


quality posts: 14 Private Messages mother

You think this is the forum where you should be able to wander in, post your sympathies for the I wanted you guys to know I'm ignorant's, and expect a reasonable discourse on what you said?

Really?

mother


quality posts: 14 Private Messages mother
chipgreen wrote:Maybe, when you apologize for what you called me.



I think I too will take my leave for now.

Because of you.
Again.

PS Choke on a bucket of Aryan penises.

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
mother wrote:You think this is the forum where you should be able to wander in, post your sympathies for the I wanted you guys to know I'm ignorant's, and expect a reasonable discourse on what you said?

Really?


My sympathies for the N a z i s?

Again, I have only two words for you and I'd love to say them to your face. Need I repeat myself. mother?

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
mother wrote:I think I too will take my leave for now.

Because of you.
Again.

PS Choke on a bucket of Aryan penises.


Nice, go kiss your "mother" with that mouth now. It was all fun and games when it was you and Sparky ganging up on me but as soon as someone else asks for civility, this is your response.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
chipgreen wrote:Thank you for questioning rather than accusing. I had no intention of stirring the pot but I should have stopped to consider the sensitivity of the subject matter before typing what I thought was a rather innocent comment. I can see how, without context or background, it could be misconstrued.



The problem is that you made it sound like ALL attempts to go after them wasn't productive at all. You referred to one incidence of forged documents, but you made it sound like you were condemning all of those prosecutions.

Plus, you used the "forced to" statement. Very few were "forced to" commit genocide back then. Probably none in fact.


It's also one of the reasons that there is no statue of limitations on Murder.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
chipgreen wrote:Nice, go kiss your "mother" with that mouth now. It was all fun and games when it was you and Sparky ganging up on me but as soon as someone else asks for civility, this is your response.



"Ganging up" on you? Really? You make false statements and expect to be treated nicely? (Referencing your "forced to" comment.)

And I've yet to call you anything that I'd like to, so where am I "ganging up" on you? Unless telling the truth hurts you?

You also only gave ONE example of mistaken identity. One. That pales in comparison to the 12 million or so dead.


Perhaps Mother did go a bit (a bit?) overboard. But it is a sensitive subject, and your "innocent" comment was anything but.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
MarkDaSpark wrote:"Ganging up" on you? Really? You make false statements and expect to be treated nicely? (Referencing your "forced to" comment.)

And I've yet to call you anything that I'd like to, so where am I "ganging up" on you? Unless telling the truth hurts you?

You also only gave ONE example of mistaken identity. One. That pales in comparison to the 12 million or so dead.


Perhaps Mother did go a bit (a bit?) overboard. But it is a sensitive subject, and your "innocent" comment was anything but.


You're right, you weren't ganging up on me although it felt that way.
I think I'm still feeling a little beat down over the Trayvon Martin discourse which also involved some intense exchanges between you, mother and myself. Yeah, I should have just stayed out of here.

As for making false statements, I don't believe that every soldier who fought for Germany in WWII did so by personal choice so yes I believe many soldiers were forced to participate. I think the same could be said for the soldiers of every country involved in the war. Perhaps I'm wrong. You are free to believe that they all volunteered to commit atrocities, if that's what you want to believe but that doesn't ring true to me.

mother


quality posts: 14 Private Messages mother

mother


quality posts: 14 Private Messages mother

A few comments for the record:

1) It is your typing mind explodingly effed up things that I just don't need to read combined with playing the victim card and pretending you were trying to have some type of legitimate dialogue when people are horrified by what you've typed that drives me off. Not Coyne asking for civility (though if I left because people wanted civility and I was unable to provide it, is that actually a bad thing?)
2)Your last post is just more evidence that you really just need to stay away from places where Jews, LGBT, Romani, Russians, non-Japanese Asians, and the infirm live.
3) Edit: See MdS's much more eloquent explanation below.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
chipgreen wrote:You're right, you weren't ganging up on me although it felt that way.
I think I'm still feeling a little beat down over the Trayvon Martin discourse which also involved some intense exchanges between you, mother and myself. Yeah, I should have just stayed out of here.

As for making false statements, I don't believe that every soldier who fought for Germany in WWII did so by personal choice so yes I believe many soldiers were forced to participate. I think the same could be said for the soldiers of every country involved in the war. Perhaps I'm wrong. You are free to believe that they all volunteered to commit atrocities, if that's what you want to believe but that doesn't ring true to me.



Those who fail History are doomed to repeat falsehoods.

For the record ...

1) The Japanese fought for their Emperor and honor (their version of it). Hardly any were "forced" to volunteer.

Atrocities committed by the Japanese are well documented, including beheading prisoners and testing WMD's on Allied POW's. As well as forcing Korean women to function in travelling brothels.

Most of the ones responsible for those atrocities were punished at the end of the war, and none of them really escaped, unlike their Axis allies.


2) The German people had been indoctrinated for the "Fatherland", and many volunteered. We're not talking about the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, or Kriegsmarine, but the SS and Gestapo (who were all volunteers, except for some conscripts sworn in after 1943).

Most of the SS and Gestapo were the ones responsible for atrocities (especially the Concentration Camps) during WW2. There was also the Allgemeine SS, many of which consisted of non-German allies (Spain, France, etc.) who were also pretty much all volunteers.

A lot of them escaped at the end of the war, some thru US assistance for their help against the USSR.


Those are the ones that the Simon Wiesenthal Center pursues. Not the simple troops which you seem to think.


Edit: And for the record, any conscripts would have been enlisted troops, not officers. And it's the officers that the SWC pursues along with any Concentration Camp Guards (who were NCO's). So stop putting words in my mouth that aren't there.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

tytiger58


quality posts: 73 Private Messages tytiger58

Thank you Mark! I'm not taking a shot at anyone but let's get the history straight.

What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch? ~ W. C. Fields

“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used” Hunter S Thompson




rjquillin


quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin
tytiger58 wrote:Thank you Mark! I'm not taking a shot at anyone but let's get the history straight.

I believe most of us are old enough to have at least sat through some decent history classes, rather unlike the revisionist and history of omission now all to commonly taught.
We must know and respect history, for we are now reliving some history either forgotten, ignored or untaught.

Rather sorry I made that first post, and it so quickly devolved into this unfortunate discourse, but I found it detestable a company would so market the beverage we all so enjoy.

CT

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
rjquillin wrote:I believe most of us are old enough to have at least sat through some decent history classes, rather unlike the revisionist and history of omission now all to commonly taught.
We must know and respect history, for we are now reliving some history either forgotten, ignored or untaught.

Rather sorry I made that first post, and it so quickly devolved into this unfortunate discourse, but I found it detestable a company would so market the beverage we all so enjoy.


Yes and I'm sorry that I responded without thinking. My comment was not ill-intentioned but it was certainly ill-advised.

klezman


quality posts: 118 Private Messages klezman
rjquillin wrote:I believe most of us are old enough to have at least sat through some decent history classes, rather unlike the revisionist and history of omission now all to commonly taught.
We must know and respect history, for we are now reliving some history either forgotten, ignored or untaught.

Rather sorry I made that first post, and it so quickly devolved into this unfortunate discourse, but I found it detestable a company would so market the beverage we all so enjoy.



My Jewish history classes in my Jewish school did not discuss that level of detail either, fwiw.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen
mother wrote:A few comments for the record:

1) It is your typing mind explodingly effed up things that I just don't need to read combined with playing the victim card and pretending you were trying to have some type of legitimate dialogue when people are horrified by what you've typed that drives me off. Not Coyne asking for civility (though if I left because people wanted civility and I was unable to provide it, is that actually a bad thing?)
2)Your last post is just more evidence that you really just need to stay away from places where Jews, LGBT, Romani, Russians, non-Japanese Asians, and the infirm live.
3) Edit: See MdS's much more eloquent explanation below.



Also for the record, I've been called everything from a mashugana to a mensch but this is the first time anyone has ever called me an anti-semite.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus

I'd like to weigh in as a member of this community and person with a strong and proud Jewish heritage.

At best, you made an overzealous statement that was unintentionally vague and/or exaggerated. You were responded to, quickly and strongly it seems, and could have apologized immediately. Then explained that the statement was vague and/or exaggerated and wrong, and apologized again. But it seems that instead, you are re-explaining what you said at first, and aren't changing your position. And when told that your belief in what actually happened is completely absurd (there is opinion and there is fact), you say that we can "believe what we want" as if there is anything resembling a choice about anything related to not sees, let alone historical fact.

I do not think you're antisemitic anymore than a person who wants a rapist to be released from prison is a misogynist. One position doesn't necessarily mean the extrapolation is accurate. The problem still exists in both cases, though. That problem is you have taken an indefensible stance and you're digging in.

The case you cited is unbelievably tragic. That single case does not, nor should it ever, mean that all should be forgotten and those guilty should be ignored, however. (I think Mark did a very good job of explaining this.) To return to my rapist analogy, a person accused and charged with terrible act who turns out to be innocent suffered a tragedy and it is unquestionably regrettable. That doesn't mean we shouldn't go after rapists.

I also think that your original statement is really uneven. There isn't anything legally wrong with making a statement, at least not in the US. Making not see wine isn't illegal and I believe it should be protected, even though I find it viscerally repugnant. The holocaust and the actions therein are unequivocally illegal and punishable, not to mention unimaginable in their pain and lasting effects.* You saying "going after current day people making statements is a better use of time/resources than going after criminals whose crimes were committed 70 years ago" (paraphrasing) is absurd. One is punishable and one is not. One involved a crime against 10+ million people. One is a freedom of speech issue.

I could go on but I think that my knowledge (note: not belief) about history was explained by Mark and mother, even if he did get too personal, pretty much reflects my feelings, sans his personal attacks which I qualified for myself above. I also would like you to know that I'm not offended -- I've posted several times in this thread that I rarely, if ever, get offended -- but I am disappointed in both the lack of historical understanding that permeates this world and that such misunderstanding has joined us here.

*As an aside, I think that these effects and the pain (less than 100 years ago!) are largely underplayed in our society and allowed to be ignored and forgotten far too easily.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen

Hi Kyle, thank you for your thoughtful post. I believe that the interaction between mother, Mark and myself was colored by our previous discussion of the Trayvon Martin case. That was a case that I felt strongly about and posted because of those strong feelings.

This was something completely different. It was a stupid, thoughtless, throwaway comment that was tainted by my life experience of growing up hearing about Demjanjuk on the local news every single day for years at a time here in the Cleveland area, where the general consensus has always been that he was wrongly accused. Many local Jewish business leaders and more than one Rabbi spoke out against Demjanjuk's extradition to Germany at the time.

As Mark pointed out though, that is but a single case. You are correct that what I said was wrong and that I got defensive rather than apologize. It's hard not to get defensive when someone comes at you the way that mother came at me but that doesn't excuse me trying to explain it away rather than just admit that I was wrong.

I am sorry to anyone that I offended or disappointed. I am disappointed in myself and sad at the thought that I may have alienated some of my wine.woot friends.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee

So the State of Nebraska, in all it's Nebraskaness has decided that teachers can't send home a list of required materials for the classroom. Instead, the state sends out a "recommended" list to parents. The parent's don't have to buy the stuff though.

STATE LAW REQUIRES ALL CHILDREN RECEIVE A FREE EDUCATION

is what it says on the form. Presumably, if the child's parents refuse to buy the supplies the school or teacher has to do so. Meanwhile, funding for schools is under attack because compute forbid we educate our kids then wonder why the country is so massively computeed up. I told my daughters teacher it's good to know that you don't have any idea what you need in YOUR classroom to teach my kid. Glad the State's got that covered for us. I also told her if my daughter needs anything let me know and she'll bring it to school the next day.

computeing people...gimme gimme gimme but don't raise my taxes, just gimme gimme gimme. compute me

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

rjquillin


quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin
bhodilee wrote:So the State of Nebraska, in all it's Nebraskaness has decided that teachers can't send home a list of required materials for the classroom. Instead, the state sends out a "recommended" list to parents. The parent's don't have to buy the stuff though.

STATE LAW REQUIRES ALL CHILDREN RECEIVE A FREE EDUCATION

is what it says on the form.

...and then we have the California legislature and moon-beam-brown. Talk about all dicked up;
linky yeah, it's fox, but that doesn't change the law. I'm in no way anti any of these 'protected' groups, but this is just a bit much. How would you like your daughter playing contact sports with a dude, perhaps for strength issues alone, and also have 'him' in her locker/shower rooms?

California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a controversial bill into law Monday afternoon allowing the state’s transgender public school students to choose which bathrooms they use and whether they participate in boy or girl sports.

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus

And a judge in some state (can't remember) changed a babies name. The baby was named Messiah and the judge said that only Jesus can have that name. The judge changed the name to Martin. Awesome.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjquillin


quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin
kylemittskus wrote:And a judge in some state (can't remember) changed a babies name. The baby was named Messiah and the judge said that only Jesus can have that name. The judge changed the name to Martin. Awesome.

TN; claimed it was a title, not a name.
BBC link

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
rjquillin wrote:TN; claimed it was a title, not a name.
BBC link



TN?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

rjquillin


quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin
kylemittskus wrote:TN?

Tennessee


CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
rjquillin wrote:Tennessee



Ah! Duh. Figures. Pretty absurd.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
chipgreen wrote:I am sorry to anyone that I offended or disappointed. I am disappointed in myself and sad at the thought that I may have alienated some of my wine.woot friends.



Chip, I can obviously only speak for myself, but I sincerely appreciate your apology and all is forgiven in my mind. I am all too familiar with putting my foot in my mouth and then pushing it down my throat. I think that to do so is wrong but not uncommon.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:And a judge in some state (can't remember) changed a babies name. The baby was named Messiah and the judge said that only Jesus can have that name. The judge changed the name to Martin. Awesome.



Even though according to the Social Security Administration it's the fourth fastest growing name. Yep, TN folks!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
kylemittskus wrote:I'd like to weigh in as a member of this community and person with a strong and proud Jewish heritage.

At best, you made an overzealous statement that was unintentionally vague and/or exaggerated. You were responded to, quickly and strongly it seems, and could have apologized immediately. Then explained that the statement was vague and/or exaggerated and wrong, and apologized again. But it seems that instead, you are re-explaining what you said at first, and aren't changing your position. And when told that your belief in what actually happened is completely absurd (there is opinion and there is fact), you say that we can "believe what we want" as if there is anything resembling a choice about anything related to not sees, let alone historical fact.

I do not think you're antisemitic anymore than a person who wants a rapist to be released from prison is a misogynist. One position doesn't necessarily mean the extrapolation is accurate. The problem still exists in both cases, though. That problem is you have taken an indefensible stance and you're digging in.

The case you cited is unbelievably tragic. That single case does not, nor should it ever, mean that all should be forgotten and those guilty should be ignored, however. (I think Mark did a very good job of explaining this.) To return to my rapist analogy, a person accused and charged with terrible act who turns out to be innocent suffered a tragedy and it is unquestionably regrettable. That doesn't mean we shouldn't go after rapists.

I also think that your original statement is really uneven. There isn't anything legally wrong with making a statement, at least not in the US. Making not see wine isn't illegal and I believe it should be protected, even though I find it viscerally repugnant. The holocaust and the actions therein are unequivocally illegal and punishable, not to mention unimaginable in their pain and lasting effects.* You saying "going after current day people making statements is a better use of time/resources than going after criminals whose crimes were committed 70 years ago" (paraphrasing) is absurd. One is punishable and one is not. One involved a crime against 10+ million people. One is a freedom of speech issue.

I could go on but I think that my knowledge (note: not belief) about history was explained by Mark and mother, even if he did get too personal, pretty much reflects my feelings, sans his personal attacks which I qualified for myself above. I also would like you to know that I'm not offended -- I've posted several times in this thread that I rarely, if ever, get offended -- but I am disappointed in both the lack of historical understanding that permeates this world and that such misunderstanding has joined us here.

*As an aside, I think that these effects and the pain (less than 100 years ago!) are largely underplayed in our society and allowed to be ignored and forgotten far too easily.




The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!

Both edlada and Kyle agree with me? It must be the End of Days!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
MarkDaSpark wrote:The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!

Both edlada and Kyle agree with me? It must be the End of Days!



2nd time that you and I agree within a month. Armageddon is definitely here. I'm finding that crazy judge lady. She seems like the exact kind of person I want to be around when the rapture happens.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee

At first, I thought this girl was getting railroaded, now I think she's just stupid. Whether or not it's a fair law, it IS a law, and she was in clear violation of it. They're giving her a clear out and basically telling her, if you do this we will absolutely expunge your record when we can. Her response. Nope.

Vista.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee

And because

A) Klez requested Darwin Winners
B) Canada is awesome

I present this bout of stupidity.

By the way, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, 180 on weed.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

rjquillin


quality posts: 164 Private Messages rjquillin
bhodilee wrote:At first, I thought this girl was getting railroaded, now I think she's just stupid. Whether or not it's a fair law, it IS a law, and she was in clear violation of it. They're giving her a clear out and basically telling her, if you do this we will absolutely expunge your record when we can. Her response. Nope.

Vista.

One could even, accurately, claim felony stupid.

Likely we all did stupid and misguided, perhaps even illegal, things in our youth but survived in part to parental guidance.
Something here, somewhere, is lacking.

CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus
bhodilee wrote:At first, I thought this girl was getting railroaded, now I think she's just stupid. Whether or not it's a fair law, it IS a law, and she was in clear violation of it. They're giving her a clear out and basically telling her, if you do this we will absolutely expunge your record when we can. Her response. Nope.

Vista.



She's becoming a martyr now and she's an id.iot.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
rjquillin wrote:One could even, accurately, claim felony stupid.

Likely we all did stupid and misguided, perhaps even illegal, things in our youth but survived in part to parental guidance.
Something here, somewhere, is lacking.



Incredibly stupid lawyers or parents or she's just pigheaded. I didn't do anything wrong, I didn't do anything wrong.

Ya know what, I agree, I don't think ya did, but the law of your state says otherwise.

Take this slap on the wrist, suffer no real inconvenience to you future/present then get on with your life!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:She's becoming a martyr now and she's an id.iot.



People don't seem to realize what it actually means to be a martyr do they?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

klezman


quality posts: 118 Private Messages klezman
bhodilee wrote:And because

A) Klez requested Darwin Winners
B) Canada is awesome

I present this bout of stupidity.

By the way, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, 180 on weed.



Well, this guy didn't remove himself form the gene pool But that is a fantastic story...people are dumb. Even in Canada.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

joelsisk


quality posts: 7 Private Messages joelsisk
klezman wrote:Well, this guy didn't remove himself form the gene pool But that is a fantastic story...people are dumb. Even in Canada.



wouldn't have been an issue in CO (or WA for that matter)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 228 Private Messages kylemittskus

Fourth amendment anyone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-airport-security.html?hp&_r=1&

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj
kylemittskus wrote:Fourth amendment anyone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-airport-security.html?hp&_r=1&



I have long said that the security state instituted since 9/11/01 has gone way too far. This is yet another example. I hope a court case is brought quickly, and the judge slaps this down.

I find it interesting that the acronym for these squads is VIPR. I see a definition of "viper" (yes, I know I added the "e", but you did the same in your mind, didn't you?) as "a spiteful or treacherous person". Seems somehow appropriate.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

chipgreen


quality posts: 173 Private Messages chipgreen

from the article....

“The problem with T.S.A. stopping and searching people in public places outside the airport is that there are no real legal standards, or probable cause,” said Khaliah Barnes, administrative law counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington. “It’s something that is easily abused because the reason that they are conducting the stops is shrouded in secrecy.”

T.S.A. officials respond that the random searches are “special needs” or “administrative searches” that are exempt from probable cause because they further the government’s need to prevent terrorist attacks.
-----------------------

This reminds me of the way police forces are depicted in futuristic, post-apocalyptic movie settings. Walking around in public, heavily armed and wearing SWAT gear, harassing people randomly and with complete impunity.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 173 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Time to stir the pot ....


Intervene in Syria or not?

9 Questions about Syria you were to embarrassed to ask


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.