klezman


quality posts: 121 Private Messages klezman
bhodilee wrote:they detained him, took his statement, thought it was likely self defense/stand your ground whatever and let him go. Then they turned it over to the DA who didn't go forward because there wasn't a case. Then the world exploded and they got pressured into filing charges. The WRONG charges (likely because if they had just gone manslaughter the world would have gone nuclear, because ya know, 2430970846io2hjelfk;ajh98t277918 people with legal degrees know the law better than the DA's office) and they lost. That's about it.



Distinction between arresting and detaining for questions to determine whether to arrest. Makes sense.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
MarkDaSpark wrote:Creepily? Really? You are showing your bias right there.

If I think someone is following me, I'm going to drive/walk to the police and/or call 911 about it. I'm NOT going to confront them, especially if I don't have a weapon, and they might.



I really think this is unfair. You're blaming the dead guy and exculpating the killer. Whether or not the shooting was justified (legally or otherwise) is beside the point. I think most of us agree that both of them made a lot of mistakes that led to a sad, unnecessary death.

And someone following me in the dark is creepy.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
klezman wrote:Distinction between arresting and detaining for questions to determine whether to arrest. Makes sense.



Yeah, they didn't let him just leave the scene, though not sure if he left the scene in cuffs or not?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
kylemittskus wrote:I really think this is unfair. You're blaming the dead guy and exculpating the killer. Whether or not the shooting was justified (legally or otherwise) is beside the point. I think most of us agree that both of them made a lot of mistakes that led to a sad, unnecessary death.

And someone following me in the dark is creepy.



So if I'm acting suspicious, and the police are following, then that is creepy?

I don't think GZ was hiding in the dark, creeping from bush to bush. He was in his car, and then got out when he lost sight of TM. Again, blame should go to both sides, BUT, no one seems to do that. Most of the Gooberss are only blaming GZ, and none of it goes to TM.


Edit: And again, bias? Killer has a darker connotation than shooter. I don't think GZ meant to kill him, especially since the jury would have found him guilty if he did so.


And on second thought ... "Whether or not the shooting was justified (legally or otherwise) is beside the point."

Where's the Hershey's? That's exactly the point. If it wasn't justifiable, then it was murder, and he would have been convicted.

And I wasn't excusing GZ, but rather saying the final impetus was TM's confronting GZ and attacking him. If TM hadn't shoved him down and attacked him, GZ wouldn't have needed to fire.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus

First of all, GZ is NOT the police. So yes, it's creepy.

Second of all, lots of suppositions as to what would have happened. Supposing and guessing is meaningless and distracting, IMO.

"Shooter" is aseptic language; TM died, ergo, GZ is the killer. If TM survived, then "shooter" would be appropriate. Washing the language to make it sound better is as biased as anything else that's been said. I said before that I think GZ should be found "not guilty" on both counts. That does not mean he's innocent. Again, both made a lot of horrible, and we now know fatal, mistakes. None of that means that TM should have or needed to die.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
chemvictim wrote:TM perceived the follower as creepy, according to his friend.



Actually, point of clarification, but his friend has since expanded on that and cleared up that Trayvon saw him as gay and potentially cruising him to use the appropriate terms.

You get where this is going?

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
mother wrote:Actually, point of clarification, but his friend has since expanded on that and cleared up that Trayvon saw him as gay and potentially cruising him to use the appropriate terms.

You get where this is going?



TM might reasonably have been nervous about the strange man following him for any number of reasons. I can't imagine any of those reasons would change the verdict at trial. I mean, GZ was acquitted. He can't get more acquitted if we manage to bring gay-bashing into it.

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
chemvictim wrote:TM might reasonably have been nervous about the strange man following him for any number of reasons. I can't imagine any of those reasons would change the verdict at trial. I mean, GZ was acquitted. He can't get more acquitted if we manage to bring gay-bashing into it.



No and Trayvon can't get any more punished than being dead.

But that moves me from thinking that maybe Trayvon started the altercation on purpose to being pretty damn sure he did. At least based on what Rachel Jeantel said.

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
mother wrote:No and Trayvon can't get any more punished than being dead.

But that moves me from thinking that maybe Trayvon started the altercation on purpose to being pretty damn sure he did. At least based on what Rachel Jeantel said.



Food for thought.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Breaking News:

George Zimmerman has changed his name to Ben Ghazi, so Obama and the media never mention him again.




I laughed so hard at this, I was tempted to put it in the Jokes thread, but this one really is very Political, so it belongs here.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

And in other news: Wash. state man accused of illegally firing shotgun says he was following VP Biden’s advice


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
MarkDaSpark wrote:And in other news: Wash. state man accused of illegally firing shotgun says he was following VP Biden’s advice



I lol'd. I guess if he'd fired AT them, he'd be okay? So stupid.

edthebedhead


quality posts: 4 Private Messages edthebedhead
chemvictim wrote:I lol'd. I guess if he'd fired AT them, he'd be okay? So stupid.



... that'd be the other VP... (I happen to like the guy, but worth a chuckle)

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee

So, I don't know who is and who isn't my facebook friend here, but if you are, go watch the video I posted of my friend's shooting competition. If you're on the side of "limiting magazine capacity is stupid" here is your proof. If you're on the side of "limiting magazine capacity is a good thing" this will likely change your mind.

If you're not my friend, the gist of the video is this.

My friend, who I swear to god is the best shot I've ever seen, posted a video from a competition he was in this last weekend. He shot his REVOLVER against semi-auto's. He finished FASTER and more ACCURATELY than anyone else. He only had trouble once with the quick load, and even that was probably less than three seconds. Again, revolver vs semi automatics. He won. Magazine limitation, in my mind, pointless. (and I was actually on the limit side).

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
bhodilee wrote:So, I don't know who is and who isn't my facebook friend here, but if you are, go watch the video I posted of my friend's shooting competition. If you're on the side of "limiting magazine capacity is stupid" here is your proof. If you're on the side of "limiting magazine capacity is a good thing" this will likely change your mind.

If you're not my friend, the gist of the video is this.

My friend, who I swear to god is the best shot I've ever seen, posted a video from a competition he was in this last weekend. He shot his REVOLVER against semi-auto's. He finished FASTER and more ACCURATELY than anyone else. He only had trouble once with the quick load, and even that was probably less than three seconds. Again, revolver vs semi automatics. He won. Magazine limitation, in my mind, pointless. (and I was actually on the limit side).



Thoust doth filter too much, or the post just didn't work ;)

BTW Kinda told you so...

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
mother wrote:Thoust doth filter too much, or the post just didn't work ;)

BTW Kinda told you so...



how did the post not work? you've lost me.

Also, yes, mother (in regards to this) truly knows best. I was on the, no liberties lost so who cares, limit them side. Now I'm on the, what's the point side.

I kinda leaned towards, I don't give a Mentos the whole time actually, but didn't see the harm in limits. Now I understand they're just stupid all around.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

rjquillin


quality posts: 170 Private Messages rjquillin
bhodilee wrote:So, I don't know who is and who isn't my facebook friend here, but if you are, go watch the video I posted of my friend's shooting competition.

If you're not my friend, the gist of the video is this.

PM for ya

CT

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
rjquillin wrote:PM for ya



and one for you

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

rjquillin


quality posts: 170 Private Messages rjquillin
bhodilee wrote:and one for you

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Return home

CT

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
rjquillin wrote:This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

Return home



I bet they have security settings so only friends can view it. Not sure if I can override that, but I doubt it.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
bhodilee wrote:I bet they have security settings so only friends can view it. Not sure if I can override that, but I doubt it.



Tis probably the issue...

BTW Similar vein:




rjquillin


quality posts: 170 Private Messages rjquillin
bhodilee wrote:I bet they have security settings so only friends can view it. Not sure if I can override that, but I doubt it.

'nother PM

CT

klezman


quality posts: 121 Private Messages klezman
bhodilee wrote:how did the post not work? you've lost me.

Also, yes, mother (in regards to this) truly knows best. I was on the, no liberties lost so who cares, limit them side. Now I'm on the, what's the point side.

I kinda leaned towards, I don't give a Mentos the whole time actually, but didn't see the harm in limits. Now I understand they're just stupid all around.



Have to admit, I don't get it. A trained expert quick shooter can do equally well or better with a revolver vs a semi-automatic. So? Is that the level of training your garden variety mass shooter has? If so there isn't a whole lot we can do about them no matter what.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
klezman wrote:Have to admit, I don't get it. A trained expert quick shooter can do equally well or better with a revolver vs a semi-automatic. So? Is that the level of training your garden variety mass shooter has? If so there isn't a whole lot we can do about them no matter what.



My friend is a hobbyist. Great shot, but not a pro by any stretch. Maybe someday he says, but not soon. There's nothing you can do but educate and hope.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
klezman wrote:Have to admit, I don't get it. A trained expert quick shooter can do equally well or better with a revolver vs a semi-automatic. So? Is that the level of training your garden variety mass shooter has? If so there isn't a whole lot we can do about them no matter what.



You don't understand why limiting capacity doesn't really do anything meaningful to a person bent on mass violence, when it clearly disadvantages someone who is going to be using a weapon in a defensive situation (where you won't have a bag/vest/pockets full of magazines)? Do you really think unarmed people (the ones these sicko nutjobs target) are really going to be able to do anything to the shooter during that reload period?

BTW It's a bit tougher to practice speedloading with a revolver since the full cartridges will eject differently, but it's really easy to practice on anything semi-auto without having to fire the gun. Semi-auto handguns are the easiest to reload quickly since you can usually hit the slide release to chamber the first new round without any grand motion.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
bhodilee wrote:I bet they have security settings so only friends can view it. Not sure if I can override that, but I doubt it.



Nope, last post I saw of yours was the Takei "Angry Birds" one, from 5 hours ago.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Bloomberg stikes again. Now it's no food donations to homeless shelters ("the city can’t assess their salt, fat and fiber content").

Cause you know those darn homeless ... eating food that's not good for them!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
MarkDaSpark wrote:Bloomberg stikes again. Now it's no food donations to homeless shelters ("the city can’t assess their salt, fat and fiber content").

Cause you know those darn homeless ... eating food that's not good for them!



The Cleveland Show had an episode where he was forced to serve at a Homeless shelter and the food was so good (donations from upscale restaurants and the like) that he started pretending to be homeless just to eat there. Life imitates art and all that jazz.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus
MarkDaSpark wrote:Bloomberg stikes again. Now it's no food donations to homeless shelters ("the city can’t assess their salt, fat and fiber content").

Cause you know those darn homeless ... eating food that's not good for them!



I hate this guy so much.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
bhodilee wrote:The Cleveland Show had an episode where he was forced to serve at a Homeless shelter and the food was so good (donations from upscale restaurants and the like) that he started pretending to be homeless just to eat there. Life imitates art and all that jazz.



They did it on "Anger Management" as well, with the older gentleman in Charlie's group doing the same.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
MarkDaSpark wrote:They did it on "Anger Management" as well, with the older gentleman in Charlie's group doing the same.



Are you guys confusing homeless shelters with soup kitchens maybe?

Edit: To be clear, homeless shelters are run by the bohemoth called the NYC DHS (Dept. of Homeless services) which has almost a $1b budget (its crazy.)

If a homeless person freezes to death in a park, they get hit with lawsuits, etc., that cost the city millions of dollars, etc. It's insane even in an insane nanny-world.

They spend more on IT than most states do.

I can easily see how they were forced to stop accepting donated cooked food items over food safety and nutritional tracking issues, but restaurants should still be able to donate to one of the countless privately run soup kitchens in the city.

PS I really don't care for Nanny Bloomberg...

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
mother wrote:Are you guys confusing homeless shelters with soup kitchens maybe?

Edit: To be clear, homeless shelters are run by the bohemoth called the NYC DHS (Dept. of Homeless services) which has almost a $1b budget (its crazy.)

If a homeless person freezes to death in a park, they get hit with lawsuits, etc., that cost the city millions of dollars, etc. It's insane even in an insane nanny-world.

They spend more on IT than most states do.

I can easily see how they were forced to stop accepting donated cooked food items over food safety and nutritional tracking issues, but restaurants should still be able to donate to one of the countless privately run soup kitchens in the city.

PS I really don't care for Nanny Bloomberg...



You are correct on the soup kitchen for Anger Mgmt. IIRC, it was a soup kitchen, not a shelter.


Now see, if they still had vagrancy laws, they could arrest those homeless during the winter, and then they'd be all safe in the city jail!!!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 229 Private Messages kylemittskus

I know, I know, but...

The only non-white juror in the Zimmerman case is making things so much worse. She said "Zimmerman got away with murder." She apologized to Martin's family. If she had followed her heart, she'd have found Zimmerman guilty.

Things are already a mess with the riots and the anti-intellectual discussion. This is just going to exacerbate things.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:I know, I know, but...

The only non-white juror in the Zimmerman case is making things so much worse. She said "Zimmerman got away with murder." She apologized to Martin's family. If she had followed her heart, she'd have found Zimmerman guilty.

Things are already a mess with the riots and the anti-intellectual discussion. This is just going to exacerbate things.



not only that, it's gonna make things worse!*



*doing my part to further the anti-intellectual discussions

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

klezman


quality posts: 121 Private Messages klezman
kylemittskus wrote:I know, I know, but...

The only non-white juror in the Zimmerman case is making things so much worse. She said "Zimmerman got away with murder." She apologized to Martin's family. If she had followed her heart, she'd have found Zimmerman guilty.

Things are already a mess with the riots and the anti-intellectual discussion. This is just going to exacerbate things.



Having seen the CNN version at the gym this morning, seems she was simply not careful with word choice. I saw it as "wish we could have found him guilty of something, but the law said we couldn't". There have been what I thought were thoughtful editorials in a few different newspapers about this, though, and I think wishing it would go away is ducking our responsibility to society. We need to sort out some of these racial/prejudicial/violence issues. Not that I claim to have any good ideas of *how* to fix these things, mind you.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

chipgreen


quality posts: 185 Private Messages chipgreen
klezman wrote:Having seen the CNN version at the gym this morning, seems she was simply not careful with word choice. I saw it as "wish we could have found him guilty of something, but the law said we couldn't". There have been what I thought were thoughtful editorials in a few different newspapers about this, though, and I think wishing it would go away is ducking our responsibility to society. We need to sort out some of these racial/prejudicial/violence issues. Not that I claim to have any good ideas of *how* to fix these things, mind you.


When the trial concluded, the initial vote was split among the jurors: 3 for acquittal, 2 for manslaughter and 1 for murder. So half the jury, after hearing all the evidence, wanted to convict Zimmerman of at least manslaughter.

After reading the language describing what is necessary to convict for Murder 2 in FL, the juror who initially voted in favor of murder changed her vote to manslaughter so at this point we have 3 for manslaughter, 3 for acquittal.

Now the jurors reread the overly specific wording of what's required to convict for manslaughter under FL law and once again they couldn't quite fit the crime into the narrow definition provided by the state.

That's why Zimmerman was acquitted, not the righteousness of his actions that resulted in Martin's death, as his supporters and tens of thousands of financial backers would have you believe.


chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
chipgreen wrote:That's why Zimmerman was acquitted, not the righteousness of his actions that resulted in Martin's death...



I think that's what several of us have said...plenty of room for disagreement. Personally, I don't buy the TM=innocent Gobstoppers-bearing victim or the GZ=heroic neighborhood protector. I'm not sure why we have to be in one box or the other.

klezman


quality posts: 121 Private Messages klezman
chipgreen wrote:That's why Zimmerman was acquitted, not the righteousness of his actions that resulted in Martin's death, as his supporters and tens of thousands of financial backers would have you believe.



That's a much more detailed version of my take on the subject.

2014: 28 bottles. Last wine.woot: Scott Harvey Red Re-Mix
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
chipgreen wrote:
That's why Zimmerman was acquitted, not the righteousness of his actions that resulted in Martin's death, as his supporters and tens of thousands of financial backers would have you believe.



In other news, they're going to change the verdict from "Innocent" to "Not Guilty" since that is what the jury really found.

Oh wait...

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
chemvictim wrote:I think that's what several of us have said...plenty of room for disagreement. Personally, I don't buy the TM=innocent Gobstoppers-bearing victim or the GZ=heroic neighborhood protector. I'm not sure why we have to be in one box or the other.



Exactly. The problem is that one side is presenting TM as still this 12 year old innocent, when he wasn't. And ignoring other things that indicate GZ wasn't a rabid racist.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.