chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:
There are some (I seem to remember RPM making this comment) that don't see homosexual's rights as a civil rights issue.



I agree with you that it is a civil rights issue. But I have heard the argument that you can stop being gay, or be celibate, or enter into a sham marriage with a person of the opposite sex, but you can't stop being black. You can hide being gay, but you can't hide being black. Not that I think anyone ought to have to hide, and the idea of lifelong celibacy is just ludicrous.

I don't understand why it has to be a contest, but apparently that's how it is.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:I agree with you that it is a civil rights issue. But I have heard the argument that you can stop being gay, or be celibate, or enter into a sham marriage with a person of the opposite sex, but you can't stop being black. You can hide being gay, but you can't hide being black.



Two words: Michael Jackson.

Seriously, though. I've heard that argument before, as well. My response was always that religion isn't a civil rights issue then, either. You certainly choose your religion. And hide it. And even make a mockery of it.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus

And today, the comments begin about how the Supreme Court doesn't represent the people since they aren't elected and how their decision is wrong and not representative of the people it's supposed to be defending and blah blah blah.

We've gone around and around about this, but I still can't wrap my head around why people care so much about who I marry or how allowing more people to have equal rights (under th govt, not the church) is a bad thing. Or how allowing gay marriage somehow takes away from straight marriage. I think we straight people have done a fine enough job if making it quite a joke ourselves. Divorce rate peaking at 50%, getting married by an Elvis impersonator, etc.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:And today, the comments begin about how the Supreme Court doesn't represent the people since they aren't elected and how their decision is wrong and not representative of the people it's supposed to be defending and blah blah blah.

We've gone around and around about this, but I still can't wrap my head around why people care so much about who I marry or how allowing more people to have equal rights (under th govt, not the church) is a bad thing. Or how allowing gay marriage somehow takes away from straight marriage. I think we straight people have done a fine enough job if making it quite a joke ourselves. Divorce rate peaking at 50%, getting married by an Elvis impersonator, etc.



Um...because we need someone to hate and blame for society's ills and the gays are an easy target? And for some people, religion.

The church I was raised in emphasized that we are all sinners, but we should try not to.

If you choose homosexuality as a most egregious sin, you get to feel sooo very pious that at least you're not doing that sin. And if you're not gay, it's super easy! Look at me, I'm godly! Let me put it on facebook so everybody knows how godly I am.

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim

Christians are the real victims .

There is something really computeed up when Rush Limbaugh lectures us about traditional marriage.

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj

Not to get all highbrow here, but Unberto Eco's essay "Inventing the Enemy" gets at what we're talking about here. If people can't find an enemy, they feel the need to invent one. Blacks and Jews were the enemies in the past, but (see Paula Deen) that's no longer OK. So, the newly designated enemies of all that is right and good in America are gays and illegal immigrants.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
coynedj wrote:Not to get all highbrow here, but Unberto Eco's essay "Inventing the Enemy" gets at what we're talking about here. If people can't find an enemy, they feel the need to invent one. Blacks and Jews were the enemies in the past, but (see Paula Deen) that's no longer OK. So, the newly designated enemies of all that is right and good in America are gays and illegal immigrants.



And Christians! If the article I posted is to be believed. Actually there is some truth to that, but come on folks. It's at least partly self-inflicted. Let your public people act like terminals repeatedly, you will start to be thought of as terminals.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
coynedj wrote:Not to get all highbrow here, but Unberto Eco's essay "Inventing the Enemy" gets at what we're talking about here. If people can't find an enemy, they feel the need to invent one. Blacks and Jews were the enemies in the past, but (see Paula Deen) that's no longer OK. So, the newly designated enemies of all that is right and good in America are gays and illegal immigrants.



Wait... I'm no longer one of the enemy? I thought we were trying to steal foreskins and molest little boys in New York during circumcision.

I wonder who comes after illegal immigrants and homosexuals. The "T" s of the LGBT community? Maybe it'll be Christians. That would seem quite fair. I'm not a huge fan of the Mormon church, either.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:Christians are the real victims .

There is something really computeed up when Rush Limbaugh lectures us about traditional marriage.



This seems to be the most salient point and one that is largely ignored by the conservative/church right:

(It might be worth noting that religious groups still have the right to exclude all kinds of people. Many churches won't marry couples if one partner hasn't converted. Some don't allow divorcees to remain in the church. Some churches don't allow nonbelievers inside their temples.)



People on this board conflated the two many times. Churches can, do, and should have the right, to choose to allow or disallow people from being married under their roofs, being allowed under their roofs, etc. Personally, I think it's quite un-Christian to do the latter (Mormons), but I think every single one of us understands and believes that the separation of church and state blade needs to cut both ways. The state needs to stay out of religious issues (except for extreme practices, obviously).

Also, Rush is an absolute psycho. Off-topic, but absurd. I was listening to his radio show one day right after the woman/military issue was happening. He said, I swear to FSM, that he has the solution and it is: allow the women to live together for a while, their menstrual cycles will sync, and then they'll all PMS at the same time and that's when we should send them to fight.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:Wait... I'm no longer one of the enemy? I thought we were trying to steal foreskins and molest little boys in New York during circumcision.



Please tell me this is a joke.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:Please tell me this is a joke.



Of course it's a joke. But Jews were accused of both of these things within the past year.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj
kylemittskus wrote:Wait... I'm no longer one of the enemy? I thought we were trying to steal foreskins and molest little boys in New York during circumcision.

I wonder who comes after illegal immigrants and homosexuals. The "T" s of the LGBT community? Maybe it'll be Christians. That would seem quite fair. I'm not a huge fan of the Mormon church, either.



OK, if you insist, you can still be the enemy.

Immigrants can be the enemies for a long time, and I forgot to add Muslims (some are legitimate enemies, but all are lumped together in the minds of many). Who comes next? I fear that we're heading toward a regional animosity that will define the coast as enemies for some, the south as enemies for others, etc etc. But there are many possibilities to choose from.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:Of course it's a joke. But Jews were accused of both of these things within the past year.



I was under the impression that, being Jews and all, it was all about the money and you were harvesting the foreskins to make wallets that when rubbed correctly would turn into suitcases.


see, that's a joke ;)

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
bhodilee wrote:I was under the impression that, being Jews and all, it was all about the money and you were harvesting the foreskins to make wallets that when rubbed correctly would turn into suitcases.


see, that's a joke ;)



No, no. That's completely factual.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
bhodilee wrote:I was under the impression that, being Jews and all, it was all about the money and you were harvesting the foreskins to make wallets that when rubbed correctly would turn into suitcases.


see, that's a joke ;)



And here I was wondering why on earth anyone would harvest foreskins.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
kylemittskus wrote:No, no. That's completely factual.



sneaky

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD

Why did the moyel (mohel) retire?

He just couldn't cut it any more.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
ERMD wrote:Why did the moyel (mohel) retire?

He just couldn't cut it any more.



Ha!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus

Rick Perry's doing a great job of making the Republican Party look horrible again.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:Rick Perry's doing a great job of making the Republican Party look horrible again.



Ugh. I dislike that guy intensely. You'd think he would have actual work to do, besides worrying about Christmas trees and lady parts.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:Ugh. I dislike that guy intensely. You'd think he would have actual work to do, besides worrying about Christmas trees and lady parts.



I need to do kore research on the issue that was filibustered. The 2 second clip I heard made it sound like I would close be vast majority of abortion clinics in TX which seems odd.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj
kylemittskus wrote:I need to do kore research on the issue that was filibustered. The 2 second clip I heard made it sound like I would close be vast majority of abortion clinics in TX which seems odd.



If I recall, the sponsor of the bill bragged that it would close 37 of the 42 clinics in Texas.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
kylemittskus wrote:I need to do kore research on the issue that was filibustered. The 2 second clip I heard made it sound like I would close be vast majority of abortion clinics in TX which seems odd.



I haven't researched it closely, but it looks like they force clinics to upgrade facilities to hospital standards (for the protection of women, of course), and the vast majority can't meet those standards. They did a similar thing in VA last year.

It's disgusting all around, and his personal comments about Wendy Davis are especially loathsome.

I remember what I was told around the last election, that abortion is not a "real" issue, that I am the one focusing on stupid crap like lady parts, being compared to one of those awful characters on "Girls" because I care about these things.

Republicans - It's not me, it's you.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:I remember what I was told around the last election, that abortion is not a "real" issue, that I am the one focusing on stupid crap like lady parts, being compared to one of those awful characters on "Girls" because I care about these things.

Republicans - It's not me, it's you.



QFT.

We have talked about this before, but it is unbelievable either a) how little control the party has over its members or b) how insane the entire damn party has become. 2012 was their election to lose. They did. They throw people up like Bachman, Palin, Perry, etc. and really think, "Yeah, this is what Americans want." It seems to me that they've abandoned any causes related to what used to be "republican issues" like fiscal reform and instead become the alienate, offend, and look like asses party. And that's disappointing to me as I'd rather vote republican than democrat but there's no way in hell I will until they get in touch with the times.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj
kylemittskus wrote:They throw people up like Bachman, Palin, Perry, etc. and really think, "Yeah, this is what Americans want."



The problem is that this attitude wins them majorities in many parts of the country. It works. It may prevent them from winning the Presidency, but they win state houses, governor's offices, and House seats.

I recall the old Reagan line, when he said "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me." As someone who once voted for Republicans and now finds it hard to do so, I can use the same line with a different party. The level of respectability took a nosedive - I want people interested in good governance governing.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
coynedj wrote:The problem is that this attitude wins them majorities in many parts of the country. It works. It may prevent them from winning the Presidency, but they win state houses, governor's offices, and House seats.



I suppose you're correct. I guess this scares me more than anything.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD
kylemittskus wrote:I suppose you're correct. I guess this scares me more than anything.



What that EVERYONE (ohhh even the non lib) has a say?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
ERMD wrote:What that EVERYONE (ohhh even the non lib) has a say?



Yes. Of course that's what I meant. And it's even more obvious that this is what I meant considering what I said a few posts ago.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD
kylemittskus wrote:Yes. Of course that's what I meant. And it's even more obvious that this is what I meant considering what I said a few posts ago.


you mean this?
And that's disappointing to me as I'd rather vote republican than democrat but there's no way in hell I will until they get in touch with the times.
And the DEMS are in touch with the times?

PSST someone has to keep Kyle agitated especially after the way he treated that one poster the other day.



chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
ERMD wrote:What that EVERYONE (ohhh even the non lib) has a say?



If you're a non-lib, does that really mean you will support people like Bachmann and Perry? I don't think so. I'm not even sure what a liberal is any more.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
chemvictim wrote:If you're a non-lib, does that really mean you will support people like Bachmann and Perry? I don't think so. I'm not even sure what a liberal is any more.



I feel like if my choices were Bachmann, Perry, or Satan, I wouldn't have a choice. Mainly cause they're one and the same. I could vote for Christie, I did vote McCain, and I might be able to vote Rubio. Ryan I kinda like, but
A. He's a Munster
B. He just has this air of Supreme water cooler about him
C. His religious views, and how they intrude into his policy, concern me.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

chipgreen


quality posts: 153 Private Messages chipgreen
bhodilee wrote:I feel like if my choices were Bachmann, Perry, or Satan, I wouldn't have a choice. Mainly cause they're one and the same. I could vote for Christie, I did vote McCain, and I might be able to vote Rubio. Ryan I kinda like, but
A. He's a Munster
B. He just has this air of Supreme water cooler about him
C. His religious views, and how they intrude into his policy, concern me.


D. He forces his way into closed soup kitchens to wash already clean dishes because his photo ops will not be denied, dammit!

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
chipgreen wrote:D. He forces his way into closed soup kitchens to wash already clean dishes because his photo ops will not be denied, dammit!



They were sooper clean after he left.

I haven't forgiven him for scapegoating federal employees. Clearly I'm prejudiced but it's not as though we're all the same. Some IRS person screws up and I deserve a pay cut, yeah that makes sense.

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD
chemvictim wrote:If you're a non-lib, does that really mean you will support people like Bachmann and Perry? I don't think so. I'm not even sure what a liberal is any more.


True, they DO NOT represent my views but neither does Al Sharpton who promotes racial tensions.

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD
bhodilee wrote:I feel like if my choices were Bachmann, Perry, or Satan, I wouldn't have a choice. Mainly cause they're one and the same. I could vote for Christie, I did vote McCain, and I might be able to vote Rubio. Ryan I kinda like, but
A. He's a Munster
B. He just has this air of Supreme water cooler about him
C. His religious views, and how they intrude into his policy, concern me.


I don't think I could vote for any of those either, especially McCain now that he visited the Syrian rebels.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus

Can we talk about "immigration reform" for a bit? I'm not sure we have done so since I ventured into these parts a few years ago.

The whole thing is a joke, right? No one really cares that there are illegal immigrants. Right? Two examples:

1) my SSN was stolen when I was 10 or so. It became an issue when I got a job, bank accounts, etc. I called EVERYONE and no one cared at all. I had the guy's name, address, place of employment (under the table, of course), and no one wanted to do a single thing.

2) I was watching Undercover Boss (I know, I know) and Chiquita Banana was on. They showed, on national TV, that their entire field crew is illegal. A rather large American company blatantly advertising that they give jobs to illegal immigrants over American citizens. I would assume they could be sanctioned? Fined? Protested?

So, no one in Washington actually cares, do they? It's just a talking-shtick.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

chemvictim


quality posts: 3 Private Messages chemvictim
ERMD wrote:True, they DO NOT represent my views but neither does Al Sharpton who promotes racial tensions.



Is this all we have to choose from? Ouch!

Seriously though, Al Sharpton isn't an elected official. Is he what "liberal" represents to you? If you want to compare and contrast stupidity on the right vs stupidity on the left, I think you get the religious right nuts vs. the gun control nuts.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
chemvictim wrote:If you want to compare and contrast stupidity on the right vs stupidity on the left, I think you get the religious right nuts vs. the gun control nuts.



I thought they were on the same side.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

ERMD


quality posts: 1 Private Messages ERMD
kylemittskus wrote:I thought they were on the RIGHT side.



Thought I'd help you out

kylemittskus


quality posts: 224 Private Messages kylemittskus
ERMD wrote:Thought I'd help you out



As opposed to the LEFT? Then sure.

I do not think the religious crazies are on the RIGHT as opposed to WRONG side at all. The gun weirdos are just delusional. Well, the religious crazies are delusional too, so... ah, whatever.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen