zyria wrote:I hate to be the party-pooper here, but I bought this back in November due to the rave reviews for Corison and I was completely underwhelmed as well as disappointed.

It started off lightly tannic and oakey and then became very jammy near the end. The tannins caused very mild indigestion with a slight headache the next morning. In addition, the jamminess (is this a word?) became pretty overpowering at the end, so much so that I was hesitant to put the glass to my mouth. (but finish the bottle I did!)

I planned to drink the second bottle tomorrow night to clear space in the cellar as well as give it another shot, but in the end, I'm not impressed at all and cannot recommend this to anyone.

If people are on the fence for this one, hold off and buy an individual bottle somewhere else as a sample before spending more on a discounted 2-pack.

rpm wrote:
Cathy's Cabs usually begin to be ready around 10 years of age, as they fully knit and emerge from the traditional 'dumb' or 'sleeping' period that is characteristic of the highest quality Napa Cabernet made in the traditional style.

This may be your issue.

zyria wrote:If people are on the fence for this one, hold off and buy an individual bottle somewhere else as a sample before spending more on a discounted 2-pack.

The problem with this line of thought is that if one were to buy a single bottle from the winery, shipped, it would still be running them approx. $90. Or if one were to go TO the winery, and not have it shipped, it would still cost them $75.

Then again, if you were able to go to the winery, you could get a tasting before the purchase. But yeah, Corison is not widely distributed for retail purchasing, so it would be rather difficult for most to be able to get a single bottle at a cost that saves them any money - so they might as well woot 1 now and have the two bottles. And if for some reason it is simply not to your palate, well, then you can sell off the other bottle.

As for the tannin-to-jamminess... Corison is one of those wines that tends to want decanting before it's drank - even the ones in the "drink now" mode. I rarely run Corison through the vinturi, and always give it a good hour in a decanter (sometimes more). Never experienced any jamminess with it. But I'm not telling you you're wrong. Your palate is your own and what you get is what you get Just sayin', if you still have that other bottle, maybe try decanting it for a while before drinking it.

And the headache - well, if your body was telling you to stop drinking and you forced it down anyway, that's your own fault

zyria wrote:I hate to be the party-pooper here, but I bought this back in November due to the rave reviews for Corison and I was completely underwhelmed as well as disappointed.

It started off lightly tannic and oakey and then became very jammy near the end. The tannins caused very mild indigestion with a slight headache the next morning. In addition, the jamminess (is this a word?) became pretty overpowering at the end, so much so that I was hesitant to put the glass to my mouth. (but finish the bottle I did!)

I planned to drink the second bottle tomorrow night to clear space in the cellar as well as give it another shot, but in the end, I'm not impressed at all and cannot recommend this to anyone.

If people are on the fence for this one, hold off and buy an individual bottle somewhere else as a sample before spending more on a discounted 2-pack.

The November 24th offering was (1) 2000 Kronos CS and (1) 2006 Kronos CS. So perhaps you are recommending a NO BUY on something different than this one!!

cheron98 wrote:The problem with this line of thought is that if one were to buy a single bottle from the winery, shipped, it would still be running them approx. $90. Or if one were to go TO the winery, and not have it shipped, it would still cost them $75.

Then again, if you were able to go to the winery, you could get a tasting before the purchase. But yeah, Corison is not widely distributed for retail purchasing, so it would be rather difficult for most to be able to get a single bottle at a cost that saves them any money - so they might as well woot 1 now and have the two bottles. And if for some reason it is simply not to your palate, well, then you can sell off the other bottle.

As for the tannin-to-jamminess... Corison is one of those wines that tends to want decanting before it's drank - even the ones in the "drink now" mode. I rarely run Corison through the vinturi, and always give it a good hour in a decanter (sometimes more). Never experienced any jamminess with it. But I'm not telling you you're wrong. Your palate is your own and what you get is what you get Just sayin', if you still have that other bottle, maybe try decanting it for a while before drinking it.

And the headache - well, if your body was telling you to stop drinking and you forced it down anyway, that's your own fault

+1

I always let Corison Cabs breathe for an hour or more, and almost always decant. We had a '97 Kronos at Keene's in New York in December which only breathed for ~20 minutes while we had our appetizers, but they did decant it for us first. It was a remarkable bottle of wine, and did open up more as dinner proceeded.

Likewise, I have never experienced jamminess in Corison wine. She keeps her alcohols below 14%, harvests around 23 Brix +/-, ferments very dry, and the wines may be full, but are never jammy, at least imho.

RRichmo wrote:edit: OK- I didn't look at Woots ship-to list. Corison ships to TN- I've actually bought it direct from the winery. What's up with not being listed to ship to from Woot???? DON'T DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!!

Same thing for GA. It isn't on the ship list, but the winery website shows them being able to ship there. Woot Gods, can we get an updated list?

Sure it's more expensive than it was last time around, but it's still a hell of a deal. Thanks Cathy!

bcreel1982 wrote:Same thing for GA. It isn't on the ship list, but the winery website shows them being able to ship there. Woot Gods, can we get an updated list?

I have the same issue. I've ordered Corison off of Woot before, a couple of times; it's shipped to GA. Good luck getting this changed during a Woot-off, though. I may be in if they do.

rpm wrote:+1

I always let Corison Cabs breathe for an hour or more, and almost always decant. We had a '97 Kronos at Keene's in New York in December which only breathed for ~20 minutes while we had our appetizers, but they did decant it for us first. It was a remarkable bottle of wine, and did open up more as dinner proceeded.

Likewise, I have never experienced jamminess in Corison wine. She keeps her alcohols below 14%, harvests around 23 Brix +/-, ferments very dry, and the wines may be full, but are never jammy, at least imho.

Talking of breathing, the 03 I tried of my own needed decanting for several hours to open up. A couple of hours, even four, wasn't enough. Dumb period, I think, though should be emerging soon.

Considering I have a relatively small storage, a quality Corison Cab (at a discount!) that's on the verge of its prime is perfect. I *wish* I could cellar more, but sadly, I have to prioritize ready to drink!

(I also bought at the lower previous price, so yea for a double dip!)

richardhod wrote:Talking of breathing, the 03 I tried of my own needed decanting for several hours to open up. A couple of hours, even four, wasn't enough. Dumb period, I think, though should be emerging soon.

Thanks for the unofficial ratting. Some of the CT comments also alluding to it needing some cellaring. And...I'm happy with the price discount, considering I always missed the prior offerings. A discount is a discount.

It is interesting that the 2003 is going through a dumb period (which I also experienced). I had the 2004 Kronos 18 mos ago and it was absolutely lovely. Different grapes and different vintage. And I think the 2000 Kronos is almost dead. I guess that is what makes wine fun...it is living and breathing. Sadly I have been so busy with work lately that I haven't had brainpower to spend on drinking wine...seems silly but it is at its best when its a cerebral thing for me.

In for 3.

I'm hoping for some truffle butter

I'm in for one. The label intrigues me.

richardhod wrote:Don't commit the fallacy of ignoring a great deal just because in the past there has been an amazing deal.

Exactly what I was thinking - although kicking myself that I never managed to get in on the deal previously. In for one.

I'm assuming this is for two bottles of the 2003, even though the picture has a 2002 and 2003, right?

Wine enthusiast review:

Cathy Corison brings her deft touch to this blend from various Napa vineyards. Its a soft, comforting wine, classic Napa Cab, with black currant, and smoky oak flavors edging into chocolate. Its opulent and proper rather than exciting. rated 89 points, Retail $65.

I finally popped one of my 2002's this weekend to go with a nice steak dinner, and while thoroughly impressed, I wasn't utterly blown away (I decanted thoroughly and actually finished the last couple glasses the next night, and they were even better). Certainly a case of high expectations, but it was overall very, very good wine, especially for the price paid on Woot.

Ah, the price. While I'm not adverse to arguments that even though this is much costlier than last time, it's still well under the putative retail price and thus a good deal, it's nearly $50/bottle shipped. Even if it may be "worth it" in the grand scheme of things, that's beyond even the splurge range most Wooters (like myself) justify $30-35 bottles as falling into. Unfortunately, I just can't make that stretch, and others shouldn't be ashamed for not doing so either.

Good morning wooters!

A few random thoughts about making Cabernet in the Napa Valley and pricing it.

The European grapevine thrives and makes the best wine in a Mediterranean climate; 2% of the world is blessed with this climate. Cabernet is one of the last grapes harvested- it needs a lot of heat to ripen but doesn’t muster much color or complexity and loses key acidity in hot climates where the nights stay warm. There is a very small subset of the land in the world with a Mediterranean climate that also enjoys the huge diurnal temperature shift that allows the production of world-class Cabernet. The Napa Valley is a geological extension of the San Francisco bay and most summer days fog is sucked in through the golden gate as interior California heats up and fills the Napa Valley at night. This causes the temperature to plummet into the 50’s. This, in combination with the alluvial benchland soils between Rutherford and St. Helena, creates an amazing little corner of the world for Cabernet. I feel humbled and honored to have had the opportunity to make wine here. It’s been a chance to make wine that speaks of place, graces the table and enjoys a long, distinguished life. I so enjoy the chance these grapes afford me to walk the fine line between power and elegance in my winemaking.

It’s very expensive to make these wines. The grapes are rare and expensive, the wine is aged in French oak barrels and it takes more than three years to get my Cabernet to market.

Expensive? Yes? Good value? My wines have always been a good value, even at full price. I have never taken the price lurches that many Napa Cabs have.

Can I afford to drink wines in this price range every night? No.

Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

cathycorison wrote:Good morning wooters!

Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

Thanks for offering this. I have been begging, wishing and waiting for this WOOT.

Thank you for the lovely comments and taking time out of your morning, Cathy!

You pushed me over the edge, if I can get back to push the big gold button after leaving this comment. (Should have thought about my time sequence better!).

We are coming out to Napa in mid-August (midweek) and are looking forward to visiting and tasting. I have not had any of your wines, yet; however, based upon the acclaims from rpm and the rest of the group, we can hardly wait!

Cheers!

@Cathy: I have a few bottles of the '01, '02, and '03. You said that you feel the '03 is drinking well right now. If you don't mind, how are the other two doing? Time to drink? Or wait? Cheers!

cathycorison wrote:Good morning wooters!

Cathy,

I have a 2000 Cab that I haven't opened- your website suggests drinking by 2010. Is it passing it's prime? Can I hold it longer, or should I open it, now?

BTW- as you may have seen above, I've also been waiting and hoping for Corison on Woot and was thrilled when you began shipping to Tennessee. Now, to my dismay, I'm not sure my order from today will happen. Can you help?

This stuff is pretty great! From a amateur drinker's perspective, this is one of the few "black tie" wines I've ever bought and I really enjoyed it. I enjoy Cabernet in certain circumstances, but it's not my typical wine. I'm more of a petite syrah fan (these days). However, this walks that line of being bold and in your face, but still entirely drinkable down to the bottom of the bottle.

With my wedding in two weeks there is not a chance that I can afford this right now. So sad.

RRichmo wrote:Cathy,

I have a 2000 Cab that I haven't opened- your website suggests drinking by 2010. Is it passing it's prime? Can I hold it longer, or should I open it, now?

BTW- as you may have seen above, I've also been waiting and hoping for Corison on Woot and was thrilled when you began shipping to Tennessee. Now, to my dismay, I'm not sure my order from today will happen. Can you help?

I drank a bottle of 2000 Corison (not Kronos) a few months ago, and it was the first time a bottle of Corison has disappointed me. Do wines have a second dumb phase?

And perhaps more importantly, I've got a bottle of 2000 Kronos as well that I was saving for Christmas. Should I worry about it?

cathycorison wrote:Good morning wooters!

A few random thoughts about making Cabernet in the Napa Valley and pricing it.

The European grapevine thrives and makes the best wine in a Mediterranean climate; 2% of the world is blessed with this climate. Cabernet is one of the last grapes harvested- it needs a lot of heat to ripen but doesn’t muster much color or complexity and loses key acidity in hot climates where the nights stay warm. There is a very small subset of the land in the world with a Mediterranean climate that also enjoys the huge diurnal temperature shift that allows the production of world-class Cabernet. The Napa Valley is a geological extension of the San Francisco bay and most summer days fog is sucked in through the golden gate as interior California heats up and fills the Napa Valley at night. This causes the temperature to plummet into the 50’s. This, in combination with the alluvial benchland soils between Rutherford and St. Helena, creates an amazing little corner of the world for Cabernet. I feel humbled and honored to have had the opportunity to make wine here. It’s been a chance to make wine that speaks of place, graces the table and enjoys a long, distinguished life. I so enjoy the chance these grapes afford me to walk the fine line between power and elegance in my winemaking.

It’s very expensive to make these wines. The grapes are rare and expensive, the wine is aged in French oak barrels and it takes more than three years to get my Cabernet to market.

Expensive? Yes? Good value? My wines have always been a good value, even at full price. I have never taken the price lurches that many Napa Cabs have.

Can I afford to drink wines in this price range every night? No.

Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

Cathy -

Thanks for stopping by. Your comments make me glad that I've got two bottles of the 2003 in the cellar!

One suggestion: on your site, would it be possible to have occasional updates on how the wines are drinking today? It wouldn't even have to be regimented or scheduled... (Of course, posting those to CellarTracker would be even more fantastic!)

Regards,
Michael

P.S. Sorry that we missed you when we came to visit the winery back in December, but we really had an incredible experience. I'd encourage anyone to arrange an appointment at Corison if they're anywhere in the area and haven't been. (And make sure to mention that you're a Wooter!)

StarM wrote:Thank you for the lovely comments and taking time out of your morning, Cathy!

You pushed me over the edge, if I can get back to push the big gold button after leaving this comment. (Should have thought about my time sequence better!).

We are coming out to Napa in mid-August (midweek) and are looking forward to visiting and tasting. I have not had any of your wines, yet; however, based upon the acclaims from rpm and the rest of the group, we can hardly wait!

Cheers!

Please give us a call at the winery prior to your visit. We would love to show you around.

If I can get any wine that I love for 25 dollars off the regular price per bottle or the equivalent percentage 30 percent or so I think that is a smoking deal. The question is do I love Cathy's wine....you bet I do!

cathycorison wrote:Good morning wooters!

snip

Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

Dadgummit! SIBWM blown to smithereens (what is a smithereen...I'll have to google that) because of that one statement! No, not "good morning wooters".

@Cathy: any chance of a second offering today? if so and you are not allowed to say so, just give us a wink. I don't want to miss it.

cathycorison wrote:Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

I went in for one just because of this... I was trying to hold off on drinking my last bottle, but now that I don't have to let it sit anymore, I can drink without worry!

I opened one bottle (of the two I had) for Christmas 2010 and it was beyond amazing after an hour of decanting. My sister and father loved it as well. Even at the higher price, it is worth it.

dfstineh wrote:Exactly what I was thinking - although kicking myself that I never managed to get in on the deal previously. In for one.

I'm assuming this is for two bottles of the 2003, even though the picture has a 2002 and 2003, right?

yes, the pic is from an older woot. it's 2x 03.

Others, just as Cathy has said, say this is open and perfect now... I don't think Cathy believes in the dumb periods that rpm talks of! I am going to open anothr bottle soon to see. It may vary a little depending on how it's been handled, of course. Mine had been across the Atlantic. Certainly the 01/02/03 Magnums we had at her winery were perfectly good.

This isn't blow-your-socks-off Rutherford Cab. If you want raw power, look elsewhere. It's a lot better than that, but more elegant, lower pH, and will go well with more foods than just barbecue steak.

If you prefer a blunderbuss to an épée, then perhaps this is not for you...

90 bucks? damn that's steep for any wine 2 pack. i've had amazing bottles for 10 euros. i wouldn't pay 45 for 2 bottles. i mean. dang that's more expensive than 2 blow up dolls...

richardhod wrote:yes, the pic is from an older woot. it's 2x 03.

Others, just as Cathy has said, say this is open and perfect now... I don't think Cathy believes in the dumb periods that rpm talks of! I am going to open anothr bottle soon to see. It may vary a little depending on how it's been handled, of course. Mine had been across the Atlantic. Certainly the 01/02/03 Magnums we had at her winery were perfectly good.

This isn't blow-your-socks-off Rutherford Cab. If you want raw power, look elsewhere. It's a lot better than that, but more elegant, lower pH, and will go well with more foods than just barbecue steak.

If you prefer a blunderbuss to an épée, then perhaps this is not for you...

Just because of the epee comment I'm getting one.

cathycorison wrote:Good morning wooters!

A few random thoughts about making Cabernet in the Napa Valley and pricing it.

The European grapevine thrives and makes the best wine in a Mediterranean climate; 2% of the world is blessed with this climate. Cabernet is one of the last grapes harvested- it needs a lot of heat to ripen but doesn’t muster much color or complexity and loses key acidity in hot climates where the nights stay warm. There is a very small subset of the land in the world with a Mediterranean climate that also enjoys the huge diurnal temperature shift that allows the production of world-class Cabernet. The Napa Valley is a geological extension of the San Francisco bay and most summer days fog is sucked in through the golden gate as interior California heats up and fills the Napa Valley at night. This causes the temperature to plummet into the 50’s. This, in combination with the alluvial benchland soils between Rutherford and St. Helena, creates an amazing little corner of the world for Cabernet. I feel humbled and honored to have had the opportunity to make wine here. It’s been a chance to make wine that speaks of place, graces the table and enjoys a long, distinguished life. I so enjoy the chance these grapes afford me to walk the fine line between power and elegance in my winemaking.

It’s very expensive to make these wines. The grapes are rare and expensive, the wine is aged in French oak barrels and it takes more than three years to get my Cabernet to market.

Expensive? Yes? Good value? My wines have always been a good value, even at full price. I have never taken the price lurches that many Napa Cabs have.

Can I afford to drink wines in this price range every night? No.

Oh, about the 2003- We’re loving it at the winery. It moved into full blossom a few months ago.

Thank you Cathy! Every time you post, we learn something new. Now I know why some winemakers boast about their coastal fog in Central Coast, RRV, or even Oregon. That's what they're after: long warm mildy sunny days, and cool nights. with rain here and there, but nothing mad.

Bordeaux in a good year... but which Napa gets most years. Except when people waste that climate with high Brix...

cheron98 wrote:
Just sayin', if you still have that other bottle, maybe try decanting it for a while before drinking it.

And the headache - well, if your body was telling you to stop drinking and you forced it down anyway, that's your own fault

Actually, I decanted for about 30 minutes before first my first sip and then drank it over the course of a few hours, so it had a sufficient decanting window.

Regarding the headache, my standard wine enjoyment over the course of an evening is to consume a full bottle of wine and a full bottle of the Davis Family Cab/Syrah did not give me a headache, nor did a full bottle of the Shug Cab. This is how I ferret out poor tannin management in the winemaking and this Corison did not pass my test. AAMOF, I can have a full bottle of Spring Valley Vineyards Uriah w/a 14.9% alcohol content and never have a headache.

My body's resistance was due to it being too jammy. It was like having to eat another cookie when you are cookied-out. Fortunately I was on the last glass, so I finished it instead of pouring it down the drain which I seriously considered.

zyria wrote:Actually, I decanted for about 30 minutes before first my first sip and then drank it over the course of a few hours, so it had a sufficient decanting window.

Regarding the headache, my standard wine enjoyment over the course of an evening is to consume a full bottle of wine and a full bottle of the Davis Family Cab/Syrah did not give me a headache, nor did a full bottle of the Shug Cab. This is how I ferret out poor tannin management in the winemaking and this Corison did not pass my test. AAMOF, I can have a full bottle of Spring Valley Vineyards Uriah w/a 14.9% alcohol content and never have a headache.

My body's resistance was due to it being too jammy. It was like having to eat another cookie when you are cookied-out. Fortunately I was on the last glass, so I finished it instead of pouring it down the drain which I seriously considered.

Fair enough. You just have somewhat weird taste then. ;)

dsapp wrote:@Cathy: any chance of a second offering today? if so and you are not allowed to say so, just give us a wink. I don't want to miss it.

you want the Second Coming? This could be it.. unless she has too much stock of the 04. We've sold out a lot of Cathy's unsold stock here..

PhilSandifer wrote:I drank a bottle of 2000 Corison (not Kronos) a few months ago, and it was the first time a bottle of Corison has disappointed me. Do wines have a second dumb phase?

And perhaps more importantly, I've got a bottle of 2000 Kronos as well that I was saving for Christmas. Should I worry about it?

More likely that it hadn't woken up again yet ... and Kronos is an entirely different animal, good for 20+ years of aging IMO... and better for it. I've got 2 that I'm sitting on for a few more years yet.

aces219 wrote:It is interesting that the 2003 is going through a dumb period (which I also experienced). I had the 2004 Kronos 18 mos ago and it was absolutely lovely. Different grapes and different vintage. And I think the 2000 Kronos is almost dead. I guess that is what makes wine fun...it is living and breathing. Sadly I have been so busy with work lately that I haven't had brainpower to spend on drinking wine...seems silly but it is at its best when its a cerebral thing for me.

IMHO, the 2000 Kronos should not even be close to dead. Not having much personal experience with her Kronos wines (aside from a handful of various tastings at her winery and elsewhere), this is mostly just an assumption on my part and based on my experience with her regular cabs, the 2000 Kronos should last for MANY more years.

For example (and this should answer a bunch of other wooters recent questions), just last month myself & cheron98 had a bottle of the 1989 Cab and it was simply marvelous. I still have a bottle of '97 in my cellar too, which I'm expecting to be just as good whenever I get around to drinking it.
I also have a near-vertical of her Kronos from '99 through '06, and I won't be touching any of those even for at least another 5-10 years minimum based on experience and statements from both rpm & Cathy.

Basically, her wines age wonderfully.

jmdavidson wrote:The November 24th offering was (1) 2000 Kronos CS and (1) 2006 Kronos CS. So perhaps you are recommending a NO BUY on something different than this one!!

Your right, I'm recommending a NO BUY based upon the Corison Cabernet offer on November 30, 2010:

http://wine.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=4247018


Corison Cabernet - Two Pack
Current numbers (updated each minute)
First sucker: jscavoni
Speed to first woot: 1m 1.673s
Wooter to blame for sellout: pusmore
Sellout time: Tuesday, November 30, 2010, 2:17:23 PM Central Time
Order pace: 0m 9.054s
Woot wage: $23,856.78 (revenue per hour)
Total woots: 325

zyria wrote:Actually, I decanted for about 30 minutes before first my first sip and then drank it over the course of a few hours, so it had a sufficient decanting window.

Regarding the headache, my standard wine enjoyment over the course of an evening is to consume a full bottle of wine and a full bottle of the Davis Family Cab/Syrah did not give me a headache, nor did a full bottle of the Shug Cab. This is how I ferret out poor tannin management in the winemaking and this Corison did not pass my test. AAMOF, I can have a full bottle of Spring Valley Vineyards Uriah w/a 14.9% alcohol content and never have a headache.

My body's resistance was due to it being too jammy. It was like having to eat another cookie when you are cookied-out. Fortunately I was on the last glass, so I finished it instead of pouring it down the drain which I seriously considered.

I may not be the wine, but that on that day you were due a headache. With any wine. Or perhaps even without it. I don't think cathy's a big additive monster. Is it Organic or close?

Don't blame that on the wine. Perhaps you had a bottle that had been heated / badly kept: I had one like that and it was tight, then after a while a bit too fruity. Weird things happen when very fine wines are accidentally heat-treated! Re the taste, that's my suspicion.