Winery web site is here.

Information about this particular wine is also available.

iByron

Chard-OH NO!!!

Writeup Monkeys wrote:A rich, buttery texture and ...

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! This descriptor, along with the 9 months in oak (hey at least it's not American Oak) sounds like it's an easy pass for me, especially at well above 14% ABV. I could just sprinkle some oak dust in the bottom of my movie theater popcorn bucket...

Question 1 for the winemaker -- what percentage of the oak was new?

CellarTracker

Info says its the Reserve, but labeling is a bit different. Looks... oaky?

Question 2 for the winemaker: Can we get some pH information (preferably in bottle, but we'll take harvest if you only have that.) How about Brix at harvest?

Looks like about a 36% savings...didn't see shipping on the official site.

St. Francis Behler Vineyard Chardonnay - Three Pack
$49.99 + $5 shipping
Condition: White
Product: 3 2006 Chardonnay
CT link above (non-reserve here)

Question 3 for the winemaker, on aging potential -- I assume that 3-5 years is from bottling (August 2007), correct? (i.e., you claim it would age until some time between August 2010 and August 2012)

It would be ... unusual, to say the least ... for a buttery, oak chard at 14.5% to age (as opposed to hold) 3-5 years from now, meaning that it would age 5.5-7.5 years from its bottling date and 6.5-8.5 years from its vintage.

White? wow finally. yay!

Winedavid39 wrote:Quality proven vineyard, meticulous wine making, very good price. Those who poo poo chardonnay outright probably have not had a top notch chardonnay. I like these guys.

I liked the Zahtila, I like Hagafen's Chard (or at least found it pleasant in '07 when I had the '05), I like Domaine du Castel's Blanc de Castel, and I like the few Macon whites I've sampled. I love love love Vincent Arroyo's (perhaps not coincidentally, right by Zahtila) based on the barrel sample, and that will probably be the first domestic chard that I order multiple bottles of.

But I've never liked any chard that touts its oak or butter. That includes "top notch" Chardonnay from Far Niente (which was pleasant, but I wouldn't seek it out, and especially not worth the absurd price) and all the ones that Pine Ridge poured in their tasting room for wine club members, thanks to ThatMom (each of which ended up in the dump bucket after several sip-and-swishes to try to get over my Chard allergy).

My wallet is safe. I'm into aromatic whites with enamel stripping acidity. Chard rarely fits that bill. Plus I already have a go-to Chard that I know is weighted towards lively fruit expression for a buck or two cheaper.

"Buttery" and "fragrant with new oak and vanilla" (their words, not mine) are pretty unambiguous descriptors.

Speaking of butter...

Question 4 for the Winemaker -- based on butter, I assume that you did Malolactic. Was it for all of the wine? Or did you do part and then blend.

I would love to hear more about the decision to do ML on Chard-oh-no! especially w/r/t the extent of ML and blending ML with non-ML batches for the final blend.

Winedavid39 wrote:
Quality proven vineyard, meticulous wine making, very good price. Those who poo poo chardonnay outright probably have not had a top notch chardonnay. I like these guys.

You rarely steer us wrong.

But nine months on oak? That seems to be everything many of us dislike in chardonnays.

To the winemakers - is this a 'classic' California chardonnay with strong oak influence?

How good is this deal?

Yup, you know what to expect by this point. Click the link, see the details ... buy the wine?

PetiteSirah wrote:But I've never liked any chard that touts its oak or butter.

I trust WD's selections as far as being great QPR for a given style. But even the well-balanced Cali-style Chards (i.e. the ones that aren't too thick or smell like vanilla gunsmoke) don't really do it for me.

Winedavid39 wrote:I think there is a "sideways" like bias against the butter and oak chardonnays out there. Reminds me of those who publicly trash John Denver (but secretly have his Muppet Christmas special on VCR) When crafted well, those characteristics can make for a beautiful wine.

There, i said it... and feel liberated !

I LOVE the John Denver Christmas Special, and I don't care WHO knows it!

Winedavid39 wrote:I think there is a "sideways" like bias against the butter and oak chardonnays out there. Reminds me of those who publicly trash John Denver (but secretly have his Muppet Christmas special on VCR) When crafted well, those characteristics can make for a beautiful wine.

There, i said it... and feel liberated !

It's entirely possible that the style as a whole may be lost on me. I've never been a big fan of vanilla as a flavor in general, nor of buttery tastes, so it's probable that I just lack the capacity to appreciate that style and always will.

For me, it's not backlash -- I've never liked it. There's just something about the thin fruit combined with the oily mouth that doesn't sit well with me.

Sure, I did start with "steak reds" but you're the one (along with GV) who got me drinking whites (starting with NZ SB and the lovely Miss Viognier) and roses (thanks to DC summer). I'll probably always have that gap in my palate.

I fully realize that there are MANY people (*waving to CJ*) who like this style. Of course, some of those people have also in all seriousness admitted to enjoying the taste of furniture.

gcdyersb wrote:I trust WD's selections as far as being great QPR for a given style.

He's usually right on point. I'm sure this is one of those times.

We've come so far since the shocked LaVie, "BCC," and Sierra Club days... :-) But there's a learning curve in all things.

let me say it again, just to dispel any doubt:

I am as certain as I can be that this wine is quality, well-made, and a huge bargain. I strongly suspect, based on the information and descriptors available so far, that it will not agree with MY OWN individual, unique palate -- and let's remember, I am a tannin addict, unlike most of you. But I am even more sure that many people will like it, and that those of you who typically enjoy chardonnay will be well-served to go in on this deal.

jwhite6114 wrote:
I LOVE the John Denver Christmas Special, and I don't care WHO knows it!

< points and laughs >

About $17 bucks for a Chard seems a bit steep. No?

Also, the 9 months in oak I am concerned will mask the acid.

Winery: How is the acid in this wine?

jwhite6114 wrote:I LOVE the John Denver Christmas Special, and I don't care WHO knows it!

I had that on an LP.

And the VHS somewhere.

PetiteSirah wrote:Sure, I did start with "steak reds" but you're the one (along with GV) who got me drinking whites (starting with NZ SB and the lovely Miss Viognier) and roses (thanks to DC summer). I'll probably always have that gap in my palate.

Glad you brought up Sauv Blanc and Viognier. SB has face searing acidity usually. I like that. Viognier can be overwhelming on your palate or even just flat, but at least it smells like a million flowers exploded. For Chard prices, I'd go for a Viognier, even if it is over the top in its own unique way.

gcdyersb wrote:Glad you brought up Sauv Blanc and Viognier. SB has face searing acidity usually. I like that. Viognier can be overwhelming on your palate or even just flat, but at least it smells like a million flowers exploded. For Chard prices, I'd go for a Viognier, even if it is over the top in its own unique way.

Torrontes PLV!

PetiteSirah wrote:Torrontes PLV!

Right on. Susana Balbo Crios Torrontes is another go-to for me.

I'll bite, girlfriend loves Chard. Is that the John Denver special where they released all the butterflies that died minutes later due to the cold?

PetiteSirah wrote:I liked the Zahtila, I like Hagafen's Chard (or at least found it pleasant in '07 when I had the '05), I like Domaine du Castel's Blanc de Castel, and I like the few Macon whites I've sampled. I love love love Vincent Arroyo's (perhaps not coincidentally, right by Zahtila) based on the barrel sample, and that will probably be the first domestic chard that I order multiple bottles of.

But I've never liked any chard that touts its oak or butter. That includes "top notch" Chardonnay from Far Niente (which was pleasant, but I wouldn't seek it out, and especially not worth the absurd price) and all the ones that Pine Ridge poured in their tasting room for wine club members, thanks to ThatMom (each of which ended up in the dump bucket after several sip-and-swishes to try to get over my Chard allergy).

But there are others that do like the oak in Chardonnay. Just because you don't doesn't mean someone else won't like it.

Seems like you should be more forgiving with Chard lovers, especially with your love of PS, which is too much for some.

Haven't made up my mind yet as to which type I like, so may give this offer a try.

MarkDaSpark wrote:But there are others that do like the oak in Chardonnay. Just because you don't doesn't mean someone else won't like it.

Seems like you should be more forgiving with Chard lovers, especially with your love of PS, which is too much for some.

Haven't made up my mind yet as to which type I like, so may give this offer a try.

Keep reading, Sparky, I'm several steps (and posts) ahead of you.

My point was in responding to WD that I have, in fact, had a decent variety of chards, some of which were "top-notch". My point in listing the ones I like is to give people more of an idea of my palate so they can ignore me if they're not fans of the chards I like.

Public Service Announcement:

Just a reminder that we still need a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 13 people to confirm for the Sip & Sail-Summer Wine Tasting Cruise Around Manhattan (in July) by Friday. There are wooters flying in from all over for this special event in July.

See *Octocat* and her 8 arms in action!

See *Sole Triple Exalted Tastemaster* Cesare!

See *InShadows* (normally in the shadows)!

See *PettySirah vs. Sparkles* !





End

I think someone--make that a couple someones--needs to open a bottle of wine and drink it, stat. ;)

[/offtopic]

I've had Franciscan chard before (a woman in my department has a wine-and-cheese party every year). I typically buy reds, but I remember that I was really impressed--enough to go back and check the bottle for the name. It wasn't a reserve, either; this is probably more complex.

Still not convinced I liked it enough for three bottles--it was good but the buttery/oaky thing has me a little wary. I typically like a crisper white than that.

(And I thought Chard-oh-no was a filter at first, 'cos several people used it.)

[quote postid="3166691" user="kylemittskus"]About $17 bucks for a Chard seems a bit steep. No?

If someone is selling a BMW for 36% off MSRP, it's still a bargain, even if you personally don't like Beemers.

bardolator wrote:

I've had Franciscan chard before

Franciscan ≠ St. Francis

OH Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Anything
But
Chardonnay

(I may be thinking sideways here but, I'd rather drink Merlot)

PetiteSirah wrote:on aging potential -- I assume that 3-5 years is from bottling (August 2007), correct?

Scott Harvey, for example, quotes aging potential from vintage date. What's your basis for this assumption?

Winedavid39 wrote:I think there is a "sideways" like bias against the butter and oak chardonnays out there. Reminds me of those who publicly trash John Denver (but secretly have his Muppet Christmas special on VCR) When crafted well, those characteristics can make for a beautiful wine.

There, i said it... and feel liberated !

Stated with great elequance W.D.

I like wine. I like it all. Hell, one of the best wines I have ever tasted was Boonesfarm Strawberry Hill (the first wine that I ever caught a buzz on). The buzz is a beautiful thing and seems to be ignored by so many here who wax poetically and argue vehemently for their preferred characteristics.

Don't like Chardonnay? Fine. Don't buy it. Me, I'm not real picky. I just like wine. I'll be buying in on this deal most likely. I'll await some more info. from all the informed folks out there.

Chow baby!

p.s. John Denver was a fantastic artist. All the whiners who make fun of him couldn't come close to his talent, his will to succeed and his compassionate, good-willed nature. Beautiful man, wonderful artist. The last decade or so I've even heard Dan Fogelberg being talked at that way. The extent of human ignorance can be astounding at times.

PetiteSirah wrote:Speaking of butter...

Question 4 for the Winemaker -- based on butter,

I got the point a few posts back and I'm a dim-wit. I'm not going to buy, but I'm not taking this offering as a personal challenge to my tongue, either.

In for 2. Got some fresh clams and muscles in the fridge so willing to labrat.

Wow, my wallet is safe. I always thought I just disliked chards until I tried Sierra Vista's Unoaked Chardonnay. It wasn't the grape, it was the oak. So now I look for unoaked versions (there are more around all the time)or stick to SB, Reisling, Viognier, Chenin Blanc. I guess all I'm saying is don't hate the grape(Chard-no-way), just give it a try without the woodwork included, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I'm usually just a lurker, but I'm a little surprised/disappointed by some of the tone of this thread. I have to say I'm really glad to see some variety in the offerings and I really like a good chardonnay - thanks woot!

I'm also not turned off by the vanilla/buttery style chards. I keep several around for the right mood and food pairings. I also have several family members that adore them, so they're popular at many of our dinners.

The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is the price point. Maybe some rats can turn me, but there are just several labels I can get locally that sound similar and fill my vanilla/buttery chard needs for closer to $10 a bottle. Would love to try something new, but gambling on three at almost 2x that makes me hesitate.