jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ScottHarveyWines wrote:[quote postid="2925265" user="jwink"]Scott:

Can you elaborate more about your arrangement with 45 North and how you’re selling their wines?

Having been trained as a cold climate winemaker and being a Riesling nut I just can't resist making a cold climate Riesling when I get the chance. I'm also a judge at the Michigan State Wine competition. In the the case with the Finger Lakes Riesling, having the grapes shipped to Napa proved to be to expensive and also labeling requirments don't allow the wine to have a vinatge or State Appellation on the bottle if you transport grapes across more than one state line. You have to label the wine with "American." So, I decided to make the next wine at a winery in Michigan. I realized from the judging that Shawn Walters is the best new young winemaker in Michigan. He had just started with 45 North when I got to know him. So he did all the work. I went to Travers City and picked out the vineyard for the wine. From there we did everything by overnight delivery. I showed Shawn the style of wine I wanted to make. He monitored the vineyard and he when thought the grapes were ready, he overnighted them to me. I tasted the grapes the next day and ran my lab test on them and then decided on when to pull the triger to pick. The winemaking process was done much the same way. By making the wine in Michigan I could label the wine with both the vinatge date and the appellation. The New york Riesling ended up being labeled with "Lot 20NY05" and I wrote "Empire State" on the label.
If you can get some of Shawn's wines from 45 North, they are well made. His fast growing medal count attest to this as well. Last year at the National orange Show we gave his Riesling best white of show.



Facinating way to may the wine by "proxy". I'm sure you had as much (if not more contact) with the crush and fermentation to get exactly what you wanted. Did you use your yeast strain or his?

Are you a regular judge for the MI show?

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jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
cheron98 wrote:Well I clearly missed something somewhere. I smell a Detroiter road trip to 45 North



Well more than just that one winery. ;-) L.Mawby makes some excellent sparklers (WD check it out) and has recieved national praise--pick up a bottle for the DTW tasting. Black Star also has some great wines too, along with an award winning cheese that was ranked as the best domestic cheese in the whole country.

Plus there is winery owned and run by Madonna's father which brings her fans to the area. Not to mention the dozen+ others wineries in Leelanau County.

For the rest of the group instered in the area check out this link: http://www.lpwines.com/

Cheron, if you want to work on a wooter experience for the summer I'd be happy to help, PM me.

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ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
jwink wrote:Facinating way to may the wine by "proxy". I'm sure you had as much (if not more contact) with the crush and fermentation to get exactly what you wanted. Did you use your yeast strain or his?

Are you a regular judge for the MI show?



I sent Shawn my yeast which was Lavin ICV-GRE from Scott Labs. I was the first to get this new Rheinsucht Hefe. I am a regular judge when my wine is not being judged. Last year I sat out because our 2007 Michigan Riesling was in the judging. It took a Gold thanks to the rest of the judges. This year I'm scheduled to judge again.

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98
ScottHarveyWines wrote:I sent Shawn my yeast which was Lavin ICV-GRE from Scott Labs. I was the first to get this new Rheinsucht Hefe. I am a regular judge when my wine is not being judged. Last year I sat out because our 2007 Michigan Riesling was in the judging. It took a Gold thanks to the rest of the judges. This year I'm scheduled to judge again.



Hmmmm... MI Wines trip... perhaps around the time of the competition? Perhaps being able to spend some time with Mr. Harvey? That would be awesome... jwink, let's do this!

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
cheron98 wrote:Hmmmm... MI Wines trip... perhaps around the time of the competition? Perhaps being able to spend some time with Mr. Harvey? That would be awesome... jwink, let's do this!



The Michigan Wine judging is held in Lancing on August 4th.

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98
ScottHarveyWines wrote:The Michigan Wine judging is held in Lancing on August 4th.



Looks like there's a reception for the gold medal winners on the 6th that's open to the public. Is the competition open?

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ScottHarveyWines wrote:I sent Shawn my yeast which was Lavin ICV-GRE from Scott Labs. I was the first to get this new Rheinsucht Hefe. I am a regular judge when my wine is not being judged. Last year I sat out because our 2007 Michigan Riesling was in the judging. It took a Gold thanks to the rest of the judges. This year I'm scheduled to judge again.



It looks like he made a dry riesling in 2007 as well, assuming the fermentation times were close to the same, and the wine was treated similiarly otherwise, which yeast did you like better?...you may have to PM me the answer hahaa don't want you to lose out on any potential wine sales.

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jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
cheron98 wrote:Hmmmm... MI Wines trip... perhaps around the time of the competition? Perhaps being able to spend some time with Mr. Harvey? That would be awesome... jwink, let's do this!



Scott, cheron and me are up to no good formulating a plan behind the scenes Hypothetically speaking would you be willing/able to hang around with a bunch of w.wooters for a few days in Northern Michigan after the judging on August 6th?

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ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
jwink wrote:It looks like he made a dry riesling in 2007 as well, assuming the fermentation times were close to the same, and the wine was treated similiarly otherwise, which yeast did you like better?...you may have to PM me the answer hahaa don't want you to lose out on any potential wine sales.



The judging is not open to the public. I'll make it a point to be at the reception two days later.
Shawn did make a 45 North Riesling that is the one that won the Best of Show white at the national orange Show. He did use different yeast and a few other things where done differently that I should not talk about without Shawn being part of the conversation.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
jwink wrote:Scott, cheron and me are up to no good formulating a plan behind the scenes Hypothetically speaking would you be willing/able to hang around with a bunch of w.wooters for a few days in Northern Michigan after the judging on August 6th?



I think so, would be a lot of fun. I can take you to see Shawn and 45 North. Maybe we can set up a tasting where we taste both Rieslings side by side. I'm good friends with Wes at the Rowe Inn. Maybe we can set up a winemaker dinner with him. It's considered one of the best restaurants in the area.

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ScottHarveyWines wrote:I think so, would be a lot of fun. I can take you to see Shawn and 45 North. Maybe we can set up a tasting where we taste both Rieslings side by side. I'm good friends with Wes at the Rowe Inn. Maybe we can set up a winemaker dinner with him. It's considered one of the best restaurants in the area.



Wow if you have the pull with them for sure! You're understating the reputation though....it's one of the best restaurants in all of midwest.

I'll send you a PM with some more questions that cheron and I can work from as we are in the very early stages of our mischief.

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ddeuddeg


quality posts: 29 Private Messages ddeuddeg
jwink wrote:Wow if you have the pull with them for sure! You're understating the reputation though....it's one of the best restaurants in all of midwest.

I'll send you a PM with some more questions that cheron and I can work from as we are in the very early stages of our mischief.



There are Buffalonians already thinking about a trek to Michigan for an event like this. bahwm is actually considering cancelling her plans for the annual foreign language summer institute. Please keep us posted as plans evolve.

"Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge". - Hester Browne


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ddeuddeg wrote:There are Buffalonians already thinking about a trek to Michigan for an event like this. bahwm is actually considering cancelling her plans for the annual foreign language summer institute. Please keep us posted as plans evolve.



Will do, things are very preliminary...but we'll make it happen.

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SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 234 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
ScottHarveyWines wrote:You don't have to get new label approval if all your are changing is the vintage and alcohol if it stays within the same tax class. i.e. below or above 14%



Scott,

Thank you so much for taking this on. I've been feeling guilty about the long gap since my last blog - I've been so busy. I've been running my next one through my head for weeks (usually at 4 AM).

TTB (the agency formerly known as BATF) unfortunately tends to be an epitome of beaurocracy. Just a couple of examples:
1) You are required to enter the name of the winery "exactly as it appears on your Basic Permit". Our basic permit says Wellington Vineyards, Inc. (a California Corporation). So, guess what? I get an envelope from them addressed to A California Corporation, 11600 Dunbar Rd., Glen Ellen, CA.
2) After using the same back label for ten years and over 40 wines, I get a rejection because some of the letters in the "produced and bottled by" statement are slightly under 2 mm in heigth (Glen Ellen is in upper and lower case).
There are so many others... I was getting my approved labels back with burned, blackened edges after the anthrax episodes a few years ago. Apparently they were heating them just to combustion temp in some kind of device. My joke was, "Boy, if Ted Kaczynski (sp?) had been a winemaker...".

The people in this division, in general, seem to lack any imagination or common sense, and I think their job could have been performed by computers several decades ago - the programming would have been extremely simple.


There are a few other little bits you're allowed to change, if included on your label, such as varietal %s, appelation %s, harvest dates, RS, TA and pH...

Welcome aboard, Scott

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 234 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
ScottHarveyWines wrote:Wine shipping laws are way worse. We are dealing with 50 different counties. It is easier to ship wine frem Germany to England than it is to ship wine from California to Nevada.



Reminds me of the time I got a call from someone in NJ who had just had a bottle of... and wanted to order a couple more. My response was, "It'd be easier for me to ship you an Uzi, and I'm not joking". Isn't it nice that our government works so hard to keep us safe?

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
SonomaBouliste wrote:Scott,

Thank you so much for taking this on. I've been feeling guilty about the long gap since my last blog - I've been so busy. I've been running my next one through my head for weeks (usually at 4 AM).

TTB (the agency formerly known as BATF) unfortunately tends to be an epitome of beaurocracy. Just a couple of examples:
1) You are required to enter the name of the winery "exactly as it appears on your Basic Permit". Our basic permit says Wellington Vineyards, Inc. (a California Corporation). So, guess what? I get an envelope from them addressed to A California Corporation, 11600 Dunbar Rd., Glen Ellen, CA.
2) After using the same back label for ten years and over 40 wines, I get a rejection because some of the letters in the "produced and bottled by" statement are slightly under 2 mm in heigth (Glen Ellen is in upper and lower case).
There are so many others... I was getting my approved labels back with burned, blackened edges after the anthrax episodes a few years ago. Apparently they were heating them just to combustion temp in some kind of device. My joke was, "Boy, if Ted Kaczynski (sp?) had been a winemaker...".

The people in this division, in general, seem to lack any imagination or common sense, and I think their job could have been performed by computers several decades ago - the programming would have been extremely simple.


There are a few other little bits you're allowed to change, if included on your label, such as varietal %s, appelation %s, harvest dates, RS, TA and pH...

Welcome aboard, Scott



Hence why I call them Those Thieving Bastards. I also have a mad hatred for FSA, I feel badly for you if you have to deal with them on a regular basis. I will spare you the name I have come up with for FSA

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 234 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
ScottHarveyWines wrote:Back in 1986 I made a trokenbeerenauslese Riesling harvested from the Madronna vineyard I helped plant in 1972. The grapes where 100% botrytis infected and the brix started out at 65 brix. It was a true Trokenbeerenauslese on the high end. Legally we can not use the term trokenbeerenaulese, only wine from Germany is allowed to use the term. I had no problem with that so on the fornt label I just put the letters "TBA". On the back label I wrote "Totally Botrytis Affected" The inspector, not having any knowlege of German wines, approved the label.



You were lucky. I heard they didn't buy some dude's uncle Arrowood's "botrytis affected" for BA and "totally..." for TBA.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines

Hi Peter,
Thanks, hopefully I can add some intersting things to all the great information your blogs give the wooters. Looking forward to enjoying your wines I ordered recently.
Scott

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98

Hey Scott: You have a PM or two

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Interesting article just came out today: Wine judges are rather unsteady, study finds.

Any thoughts about it?


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 234 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
MarkDaSpark wrote:Interesting article just came out today: Wine judges are rather unsteady, study finds.

Any thoughts about it?



This isn't really news. The number of wines tasted in a limited time frame makes it virtually impossible for any judge or wine critic to be consistent. Trained panels, like the California State Fair and Orange County Fair are more consistent than the collections of writers and wine buyers used by most competitions. Single person judgements (Parker, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast...) are even more subject to variation, and exemplify the shortcomings of attempting to quantify wine quality.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 181 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
SonomaBouliste wrote:This isn't really news. The number of wines tasted in a limited time frame makes it virtually impossible for any judge or wine critic to be consistent. Trained panels, like the California State Fair and Orange County Fair are more consistent than the collections of writers and wine buyers used by most competitions. Single person judgements (Parker, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast...) are even more subject to variation, and exemplify the shortcomings of attempting to quantify wine quality.



I think the article was about a four year study at California State Fair competitions.

Sounded like they are going to lower the amount of wine tasted per day from 150 to 75. 75???? I think we were getting palate fatigue during fewer tastings per day during the RPM tour.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 234 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
MarkDaSpark wrote:I think the article was about a four year study at California State Fair competitions.

Sounded like they are going to lower the amount of wine tasted per day from 150 to 75. 75???? I think we were getting palette fatigue during fewer tastings per day during the RPM tour.




It takes me at least a half hour to seriously assess 6-8 wines. Both palate fatigue and the amount of energy required to concentrate and fully focus limit the number of flights I could possibly taste in a session and be at or near my best. 75 is a huge improvement from 150, but even fewer would be better.

aces219


quality posts: 5 Private Messages aces219

The moral of the story is that winemaking is a lot like insurance: 50 states to deal with, all with their own approval process, vague objections to filings, and ultimately most of the regulation just hurts the consumer.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
MarkDaSpark wrote:Interesting article just came out today: Wine judges are rather unsteady, study finds.

Any thoughts about it?



I sit on the Califronia State Fair Wine Judging board of directors, so have been involved with this study from the start. You are right, it was over four years ago that we decided to start judging the judges. What the data shows is that a single judge is not always consistent, but a group or panel of judges is much more consistent. The first few years we started this it was my Folie a Deux Cabernet that was used. I think it important to keep judging the judges. The personal results per judge are only known to the Judging administrator. I think that it makes judges do a better job when they know they are being judged and also it allows the administrator to not invite back those judges that are continually not consistent.

Lighter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Lighter
bhodilee wrote:I also have a mad hatred for FSA, . . . I will spare you the name I have come up with for FSA




"I'll take acronyms for one hundred, Alex."

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
Lighter wrote:"I'll take acronyms for one hundred, Alex."



Farm Services Agency. I work in Gov. So acronyms are second nature. In fact, no joke, at the first meeting of a study it is everyone's job to think up four possible acronyms to name the study for the next meeting. I've always thought that was bizarre.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

Cesare


quality posts: 1613 Private Messages Cesare
bhodilee wrote:Farm Services Agency. I work in Gov. So acronyms are second nature. In fact, no joke, at the first meeting of a study it is everyone's job to think up four possible acronyms to name the study for the next meeting. I've always thought that was bizarre.



I love acronyms! Even here, we like to use them. We don't call TMR themostrighteous, and we don't call HAK hitanykey42, we call them TMR and HAK.
Man... I think I've been around computers too long.

-il Cesare
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“In the entire world there are only a few sounds that bring joy to all but the most jaded. One is the murmur of a kitten purring. Another is the thwack of a well-pitched baseball hitting a perfectly swung bat. And the third is the pop of a cork being pulled from a bottle of wine.” —George Taber

JOATMON


quality posts: 19 Private Messages JOATMON
Cesare wrote:I love acronyms! Even here, we like to use them. We don't call TMR themostrighteous, and we don't call HAK hitanykey42, we call them TMR and HAK.
Man... I think I've been around computers too long.



And JOATMON, as well.

Juvie: 30+24+4; Sellout: 6+7+0
Rags: 3+2+3
Drunk: 69+94+15 wine, 20+29+4 non-wine
Rugrat: 0+0+0; Refunded: 2+3+1
(as of 2011-03-02)

javadrinker


quality posts: 4 Private Messages javadrinker

Gratuitous x-post from the pub:

javadrinker wrote:Hanging out at the Sacramento airport an hour before my flight. They have a Vino Volo wine bar here now and they offer (pricey) wine flights. I'm having the Sierra Reds which includes Scott Harvey's Old Vine Zin (2005). Tasty stuff although much pepperier than I expected (is that even a word?). I, of course, mentioned that I had a bottle at home and they countered by saying that Scott and his wife stop here all the time. The consensus is that they are really great people...who knew? Oh, right, we did.



I better be on the lookout for Hawaiian shirts.

And the path to drunken poverty continues... Java's Stash at CT

  • Wine.woots: um, lost count.
  • Other woots: um, lost count too. I might have a problem.

chriscameron


quality posts: 5 Private Messages chriscameron

quote postid="2948015" user="SonomaBouliste"]This isn't really news. The number of wines tasted in a limited time frame makes it virtually impossible for any judge or wine critic to be consistent. Trained panels, like the California State Fair and Orange County Fair are more consistent than the collections of writers and wine buyers used by most competitions. Single person judgements (Parker, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast...) are even more subject to variation, and exemplify the shortcomings of attempting to quantify wine quality.[/quote []

I'm brand new to this and will have wines available here in the very near future. I have had the pleasure of meeting Scott Harvey on a number of occasions and shared the odd bottle of wine with him....very cool guy!
I am an Australian winemaker of some 30 odd years experienced and have been trained in the show judging system in Australian. It is a rigorous and detailed program that literally takes years to master. The Australian show system is judged entirely by well trained and qualified judges which invariably leads to greater consistency.
I judged last year at the California Mid State fair and easily see why inconsistency reigns supreme. I met some great people who really enjoyed the experience but were clearly unprepared for the task at hand.
The chair of our panel for example pushed for a particular Chardonnay for a gold medal on the basis of its "beautifully balanced oak" (his deciding vote confirmed the award). My notes reflected the fact that it had "pinking" (evidence of oxidised phenolics), was thin and hard "a poor attempt at an unoaked Chardonnay"
The result: the wine was in fact, unoaked and that particular chairman is the senior buyer for one of the largest "fine wine" retailers on the west coast.
I have been asked by the Mid State Fair to assist in re-evaluating their competition and they have been very receptive.

Best of luck Scott, hope to catch up soon.

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98

Hey Scott,

We found one of your Zins in a local shop here - WineStyles This makes me happy. And of course, we all purchased some

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines

I'm brand new to this and will have wines available here in the very near future. I have had the pleasure of meeting Scott Harvey on a number of occasions and shared the odd bottle of wine with him....very cool guy!

Best of luck Scott, hope to catch up soon.[/quote]

Hi Chris,
Great to see you on the blog. You'll enjoy these wooters. I agree with you 100% on your judging remarks and have always been impressed with the Australian system. That is why at the California State Fair we decided to start judging the judges. Look forward to getting some of your wines when they come up on wine.woot.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
cheron98 wrote:Hey Scott,

We found one of your Zins in a local shop here - WineStyles This makes me happy. And of course, we all purchased some



Really? I have those here as well, National Chain. Looks like I'm heading there in the near future.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

ddeuddeg


quality posts: 29 Private Messages ddeuddeg
cheron98 wrote:Hey Scott,

We found one of your Zins in a local shop here - WineStyles This makes me happy. And of course, we all purchased some



As one of those purchasers, I'll add the note that it was the '06 Amador County Zin. I'm looking forward to comparing to one of the bottles of the '05 from my cellar. Wish we could get it in NY.

"Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge". - Hester Browne


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 152 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
bhodilee wrote:Really? I have those here as well, National Chain. Looks like I'm heading there in the near future.



We are not in all the Winestyles, just those that order it individually. Maybe I can get WD to offer some in the future.

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ScottHarveyWines wrote:We are not in all the Winestyles, just those that order it individually. Maybe I can get WD to offer some in the future.



Somehow I think that will be in the future. And I should do a better job of reading my email, missed out on the V-day trio you were offering.

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jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
chriscameron wrote:quote postid="2948015" user="SonomaBouliste"]This isn't really news. The number of wines tasted in a limited time frame makes it virtually impossible for any judge or wine critic to be consistent. Trained panels, like the California State Fair and Orange County Fair are more consistent than the collections of writers and wine buyers used by most competitions. Single person judgements (Parker, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast...) are even more subject to variation, and exemplify the shortcomings of attempting to quantify wine quality.[/quote []

I'm brand new to this and will have wines available here in the very near future. I have had the pleasure of meeting Scott Harvey on a number of occasions and shared the odd bottle of wine with him....very cool guy!
I am an Australian winemaker of some 30 odd years experienced and have been trained in the show judging system in Australian. It is a rigorous and detailed program that literally takes years to master. The Australian show system is judged entirely by well trained and qualified judges which invariably leads to greater consistency.
I judged last year at the California Mid State fair and easily see why inconsistency reigns supreme. I met some great people who really enjoyed the experience but were clearly unprepared for the task at hand.
The chair of our panel for example pushed for a particular Chardonnay for a gold medal on the basis of its "beautifully balanced oak" (his deciding vote confirmed the award). My notes reflected the fact that it had "pinking" (evidence of oxidised phenolics), was thin and hard "a poor attempt at an unoaked Chardonnay"
The result: the wine was in fact, unoaked and that particular chairman is the senior buyer for one of the largest "fine wine" retailers on the west coast.
I have been asked by the Mid State Fair to assist in re-evaluating their competition and they have been very receptive.

Best of luck Scott, hope to catch up soon.




Googled up your main winery, looking forward to the opportunity (hopefully) to get some of that considering the extremely limited case prodcution wines you make with your name on it, I assume you're still selling fruit to other winemakers? Found this article as well: http://www.zwinesusa.com/Wines-USA.asp?DocID=44

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canonizer


quality posts: 22 Private Messages canonizer

Mr. Harvey, any clues about when your next post is going to drop and what you are choosing to write about?

signed.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
ScottHarveyWines wrote:We are not in all the Winestyles, just those that order it individually. Maybe I can get WD to offer some in the future.



I will make that request of my franchise owner then. He's pretty good about that kind of thing.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)