Everything to do with the wine and the island.

Wine Matters: Madeira's following has spread around the globe

JOATMON wrote:Hmm. I have some Henriques & Henriques 15 year Bual, Malmsey, Verdelho, and Sercial that I haven't gotten around to trying out yet. Henriques & Henriques 5 year, on the other hand, was the best 5 year I've ever had; if you run across some, grab it!

I've not had blends, other than the Rare Wine Company VB.

Henriques & Henriques is one of the very few independent Madeira exporters left; most of the rest have been vacuumed up by the Madeira Wine Company. In my experience, the Henriques & Henriques 5 year seemed to be closer in taste to older vintage madeiras than any of the 5 years from other labels. However, my supplier of them dried up, I haven't found another, and I'm not about to order direct.

JOATMON wrote:There are 5 and 10 year Madeiras spottily available in some retail outlets, but I'd avoid them if possible. They are but pale shadows of decently aged Madeiras. And, there are domestically produced Madeiras available; unfortunately, unlike Champaign, there is no legal protection for the term Madeira.

JOATMON wrote:My one real regret on the RPM tour is that I chickened out and didn't bring a Madeira to share. It would have been perfect to end the dinner the last night.

In all things Madeira, Manny Berk of Rare Wine Company is the guy. He has been pushing all things Madeira for decades; he makes yearly buying trips to Madeira, and he tends to find stuff that everybody thought no longer existed.

Story of Madeira

What with the dollar in the dumpster, prices have only gone up. Vintage Madeiras are not cheap, however Rare Wine Company have created the Historic Series: three non-vintage Madeiras in the styles of the vintage ones. The three are: New York Malmsey, Boston Bual, and Charleston Sercial. Each are $45, and you can get a three-pack sampler for $125. (It turns out there is a fourth in the Historical Series: New Orleans Special Reserve, which was released to help raise funds for post-Katrina New Orleans; if you beg, they may have one or two left).

Start with those. If you want to get only one, I'd recommend the Malmsey; it's traditionally the richest style of Madeira. But your tastes may be different from mine; the descriptions on the page may steer you into something you would like.

If you like those, then the next step up are three vintage Madeiras from Barbeito that come in 500ml bottles for $35-$40 each; again, Rare Wine Company carries them.

If indeed you like those, then heaven help you. My introduction was with a cheap non-vintage Malmsey that couldn't have been older than three years that someone bought on Holiday in Madeira and brought back. I was hooked. It's been downhill and expensive ever since.

I have a 1964 Blandy Malmsey that's waiting for the right occasion.

Right next to my 30-year solera PX.

Oh, the humanity!

iByron wrote:I have a 1964 Blandy Malmsey that's waiting for the right occasion.

Right next to my 30-year solera PX.

Oh, the humanity!

i LOVE the drinking window for that puppy!

themostrighteous wrote:i LOVE the drinking window for that puppy!

Yeah, that is funny isn't it? 2000-2100!

JOATMON wrote:If indeed you like those, then heaven help you. My introduction was with a cheap non-vintage Malmsey that couldn't have been older than three years that someone bought on Holiday in Madeira and brought back. I was hooked. It's been downhill and expensive ever since.

And that's why I'm happy that I'm enjoying some 5 year old Blandy's Alvada (Bual-Malmsey blend). It's yummy, and I could afford to drink it every night.

I do have the three from Rare Wine Co. that you mentioned. And though you may pooh-pooh them, I've bought a bottle of 5-year in each of the four varieties to start working my way up the food chain.

-- T

Curiosity got the best of me. Today I took delivery of the Historic series as well as the New Orleans reserve. Joatmon, do I curse or thank you?

timbyrd wrote:And that's why I'm happy that I'm enjoying some 5 year old Blandy's Alvada (Bual-Malmsey blend). It's yummy, and I could afford to drink it every night.

I do have the three from Rare Wine Co. that you mentioned. And though you may pooh-pooh them, I've bought a bottle of 5-year in each of the four varieties to start working my way up the food chain.

-- T

Let me be clear here. I really enjoyed the 5 year Henriques & Henriques in all four types; if you find them anywhere, grab them!

For some reason, the Henriques & Henriques 5 years have been better than anybody else's 5 years.

luckyinla wrote:Curiosity got the best of me. Today I took delivery of the Historic series as well as the New Orleans reserve. Joatmon, do I curse or thank you?

Delivery, smhelivery. Have you tried them yet? Did you like them.

I fear that I've lead people down a path that they will find they do not like. I like Madeira; you may find that you do not.

If you don't like them, you may curse me for having spent something close to $200 on something you don't like. And I'll be unhappy that I misled you.

If you do like it, and you start buying the really good stuff, I may end up cursing you because the demand has increased, driving prices up.

But not really. The biggest kick I get is turning someone on to something that I know about that they end up really liking. Sharing is good.

JOATMON wrote:The biggest kick I get is turning someone on to something that I know about that they end up really liking. Sharing is good.

Which is why I'm still beating myself up for not bringing something on the RPM tour. Seeing someone liking something you've just turned them on to is really cool.

What glasses are you using for Madeira?

-- T

JOATMON wrote:Delivery, smhelivery. Have you tried them yet? Did you like them.

I fear that I've lead people down a path that they will find they do not like. I like Madeira; you may find that you do not.

If you don't like them, you may curse me for having spent something close to $200 on something you don't like. And I'll be unhappy that I misled you.

If you do like it, and you start buying the really good stuff, I may end up cursing you because the demand has increased, driving prices up.

But not really. The biggest kick I get is turning someone on to something that I know about that they end up really liking. Sharing is good.

is that really eeyore posting?!? :P

i can't wait to try mine. when they get here from TRWC. which they won't for another month or so.

JOATMON wrote:Delivery, smhelivery. Have you tried them yet? Did you like them.

I fear that I've lead people down a path that they will find they do not like. I like Madeira; you may find that you do not.

If you don't like them, you may curse me for having spent something close to $200 on something you don't like. And I'll be unhappy that I misled you.

If you do like it, and you start buying the really good stuff, I may end up cursing you because the demand has increased, driving prices up.

But not really. The biggest kick I get is turning someone on to something that I know about that they end up really liking. Sharing is good.

I plan on opening one this very weekend! I was thinking of my riedel port glasses...(I also have bordeaux,& burgundy glasses too)...so I'd like a glass recommendation as well. I read they should be enjoyed at room temperature. Now I just have to decide which to pop open first!

luckyinla wrote:I plan on opening one this very weekend! I was thinking of my riedel port glasses...(I also have bordeaux,& burgundy glasses too)...so I'd like a glass recommendation as well. I read they should be enjoyed at room temperature. Now I just have to decide which to pop open first!

The riedel glass for Madeira is the same as the port glass (tawny, vintage, LBV). The 416/60 Vinum.

Cesare wrote:The riedel glass for Madeira is the same as the port glass (tawny, vintage, LBV). The 416/60 Vinum.

That's what I was hoping. Thanks for your quick response, as well as the riedel link!

The four major traditional grapes for Madeira are Malmsey/Malvisia, Bual (or Boal), Verdelho, and Sercial (from sweet to dry). Modern Madeira plonk is probably made from Tinta Negra Mole. Some earlier Madeira was made from Terrantez, and there was even some made from Bastardo and Moscatel (the only red grape in the bunch), but those last ones are really rare.

themostrighteous wrote:i can't wait to try mine. when they get here from TRWC. which they won't for another month or so.

hey, JOAT, i'm getting a set of these next week. can you give me a sense of what their drinking windows are likely to be beyond 'forever'? how about storage conditions - horizontal or vertical, cellar or room temp? once opened, how would you preserve them - fridge or countertop - & how long will they last? i would appreciate any pointers that you may be able to provide.

EDIT: of course, if anybody else here has an answer to these questions, then by all means speak up!

themostrighteous wrote:hey, JOAT, i'm getting a set of these next week. can you give me a sense of what their drinking windows are likely to be beyond 'forever'? how about storage conditions - horizontal or vertical, cellar or room temp? once opened, how would you preserve them - fridge or countertop - & how long will they last? i would appreciate any pointers that you may be able to provide.

EDIT: of course, if anybody else here has an answer to these questions, then by all means speak up!

Let's see.

Drinking windows are pretty much now to forever. Like I've said before, there are some out there that have been in demijohn (glass carbouy) for over 100 years, and then in the bottle for another 50-100 years.

Store upright. Yep; that's the little detail that kick-started the whole Madeira discussion long ago in a galaxy far away.

Store in a cool place, but not too dry. Once open, store in a cool place, but not too dry. It should keep, once open, 6 months to a year; I have some bottles that have been open for several years on my countertop, and they're still yummy.

The one interesting to remember about Madeira and storage: regular wines are stored in a cool place because heat will age the wines too quickly, while Madeira was cooked in open vats specifically to make it Madeira. A little extra heat or oxygen isn't going to make much difference compared to the cooking they've already been through.

However, if you're going to store them for 50 years, then a wine cave would be just fine; a real cave would be even better. However, that upright storage position is something I've seen no wine cave be capable of.

JOATMON wrote:Let's see.

Drinking windows are pretty much now to forever. Like I've said before, there are some out there that have been in demijohn (glass carbouy) for over 100 years, and then in the bottle for another 50-100 years.

Store upright. Yep; that's the little detail that kick-started the whole Madeira discussion long ago in a galaxy far away.

Store in a cool place, but not too dry. Once open, store in a cool place, but not too dry. It should keep, once open, 6 months to a year; I have some bottles that have been open for several years on my countertop, and they're still yummy.

The one interesting to remember about Madeira and storage: regular wines are stored in a cool place because heat will age the wines too quickly, while Madeira was cooked in open vats specifically to make it Madeira. A little extra heat or oxygen isn't going to make much difference compared to the cooking they've already been through.

However, if you're going to store them for 50 years, then a wine cave would be just fine; a real cave would be even better. However, that upright storage position is something I've seen no wine cave be capable of.

awesome. thanks for the tips. seriously.

EDIT: and, yes, i do remember that upright storage was what kick-started this whole thing.

As I type this, I am sipping a 5yo Blandy Verdelho. It reminds me a little bit of the Amontillado I opened recently, except I find the Amontillado has a sour note that takes some getting used to.

I also have an order in at the Rare Wine Co. - so chalk up another bit of influence. J.

-- T
(Good Heavens! I'm even considering getting one of the Madeiras in their recent newsletter, which is impressive since I haven't been so tempted to buy a bottle of pre-ban absinthe.)

timbyrd wrote:(Good Heavens! I'm even considering getting one of the Madeiras in their recent newsletter, which is impressive since I haven't been so tempted to buy a bottle of pre-ban absinthe.)

Um, don't bother. When I called Rare Wine Company at 10am PDT Monday, the Grand Old Boal was already sold out, and they had only one of the W.S. Bual left.

The Imperial Malmsey does look yummy; I did order a bottle of that.

Sweet Madeira Stands In For Port

JOATMON wrote:Sweet Madeira Stands In For Port

Interesting. I see the WL sells many of those. Any you would reccommend? (I'm guessing you would say the New York)

Cesare wrote:Interesting. I see the WL sells many of those. Any you would reccommend? (I'm guessing you would say the New York)

The only one I've personally tasted is the New York Malmsey, and I've really liked it.

JOATMON wrote:The only one I've personally tasted is the New York Malmsey, and I've really liked it.

and C, not that you care, but the score & review that WL lists is from WE & not from WA.

i think i might have to try this soon...

themostrighteous wrote:and C, not that you care, but the score & review that WL lists is from WE & not from WA.

i think i might have to try this soon...

Does WL have any deals on shipping? Like drinkupny has free shipping for orders of $100 or more. (And occasionally has a 10% off sale.)

Tonight, i am drinking the Rare Wine Co Charleston Sercial.

-- T

timbyrd wrote:Does WL have any deals on shipping? Like drinkupny has free shipping for orders of $100 or more. (And occasionally has a 10% off sale.)

Tonight, i am drinking the Rare Wine Co Charleston Sercial.

-- T

Please let us know what you think of it.

timbyrd wrote:Does WL have any deals on shipping? Like drinkupny has free shipping for orders of $100 or more. (And occasionally has a 10% off sale.)

Tonight, i am drinking the Rare Wine Co Charleston Sercial.

-- T

Yes, let us know what you think!
WL has free shipping codes occasionally. There was just one a couple of weeks ago that lasted only 1 day. I can let you know when another one comes up. They also post deals and codes in this thread.

Cesare wrote:WL has free shipping codes occasionally. There was just one a couple of weeks ago that lasted only 1 day. I can let you know when another one comes up. They also post deals and codes in this thread.

what C said.

JOATMON wrote:Please let us know what you think of it.

finally had the RWC New York Malmsey last night. very nice. reminiscent of a PX Solera but lighter in body, color & RS.

timbyrd wrote:Does WL have any deals on shipping? Like drinkupny has free shipping for orders of $100 or more. (And occasionally has a 10% off sale.)

Tonight, i am drinking the Rare Wine Co Charleston Sercial.

-- T

Java and I are supposed to post our notes about this wine that TB shared with us. As well as two more. Too late right now, but will follow-up with the report soon.

Rare Wine Company is having a sale on Madeira. Not much of a sale: 10% off if you buy 6 bottles or more.

Madeira - From the Grapes of Sloth blog

Rare Wine Company offered an opportunity to taste 14 rare Madeiras. It's sold out, but heck yeah, I went for it.

I do have one question, though. To spit or not to spit?

JOATMON wrote:Rare Wine Company offered an opportunity to taste 14 rare Madeiras. It's sold out, but heck yeah, I went for it.

I do have one question, though. To spit or not to spit?

For $500? You better be licking the inside of your glass!

Cesare wrote:For $500? You better be licking the inside of your glass!

But that will lead to burnout after the third or fourth Madeira. And the point, I'm assuming, is to taste these puppies.

My question is serious. It's the only chance I will ever get to taste these Madeiras, and I'd hate to waste that chance.

On the other hand, yeah, it is expensive. And I have no idea how small the pours will be.

It's going to be an interesting afternoon, that's for sure.

JOATMON wrote:But that will lead to burnout after the third or fourth Madeira. And the point, I'm assuming, is to taste these puppies.

It's going to be an interesting afternoon, that's for sure.

Yeah you're right of course. Standard rules are, you taste and spit through each one and go back later for the ones you liked the most and drink those. If there is anything left...
Plus you have to drive home after and they're not supplying anything substantial to eat. Although you could hang out around there and sober up, have dinner, etc.