vaaccess


quality posts: 17 Private Messages vaaccess

So I've heard Peter and others talk about a wine going through a dumb phase as it ages and I'd like a little more on the topic.

Specifically: How would I know that a wine is going through a dumb phase versus it being past its peak? Why does it go through a dumb phase? Is there any way to project when it will enter/leave a dumb phase?

I'm guessing that this is going to be simliar to determining if the economy is in a recession...The only way to know is after-the-fact...

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dnarayanan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dnarayanan
vaaccess wrote:So I've heard Peter and others talk about a wine going through a dumb phase as it ages and I'd like a little more on the topic.

Specifically: How would I know that a wine is going through a dumb phase versus it being past its peak? Why does it go through a dumb phase? Is there any way to project when it will enter/leave a dumb phase?

I'm guessing that this is going to be simliar to determining if the economy is in a recession...The only way to know is after-the-fact...



just to clarify, does this mean that a wine approaches its peak, goes through a local minimum for a while after the peak, hits a secondary peak some years later, then really begins its dénouement?

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clayfu


quality posts: 10 Private Messages clayfu

a wine that's capable of being aged has severly phases.
Most of the reason why they are able to be aged so well is the abundant amount of tannins. As the tannins develop the wine becomes smoother and less acidic. THe problem is that part way into the growth the wine will shut down, hibernate if you will and suddenly explode in its prime!

There is no sure way of figuring this out, like you said its an after the fact type of deal. you can try looking at Robert Parker's vintage chart and see approximately where your wine is at, but the best way is really to use cellartracker.

This idea of "dumb phases" rarely applies to your everyday wine, so many wines have an early stage then a "prime" stage but no dumb phase, even if there was its so minimal you might not even have noticed it. Not nearly as pronounced as say a 20 year old bordeaux=)

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 232 Private Messages SonomaBouliste

Mike,

This is one wine's great mysteries. If there is a "logical" explanation, it might lay in the combination of redox potential and polyphenolic chemistry. If it only ocurred once in a wine's life, for a certain time after bottling it might be easier to explain. Most commonly, the wine becomes less aromatic and "closes down" starting a few months after bottling, reaches a nadir, and then "opens up" again after a few months or a few years. More confusingly, wines can go through more than one dumb phase.
I don't think it's easily confused with a wine being over the hill. We're just talking about a wine being less aromatic and less interesting, not oxidized, browning, smelling old.
The best way to know is if you're familiar with the wine in question, that is, you've had the wine on previous occasions and have a good taste memory. This is something that more typically happens with serious red wines made for longer aging.

amaizing


quality posts: 0 Private Messages amaizing

BUMP

I've noticed some chatter recently about "The Dumb Phase" in wine. I drank a 2006 Wellington Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Handal-Denier
last night and was dissappointed. The last bottle I had was in June and it was very good. This one seemed to have minimal aroma and a flat/dull taste. It wasn't decanted but consumed over a 3-4 hour period. It didn't seem like a bad bottle. Could it be in a dumb phase now? Can decanting a wine release it from a dumb phase?There are no tasting notes in CT but interestingly the drinking range is 2014-2019. I checked the other vintages and the most recent note was for a 2003 by PolarBear22 in August. I guess I should set aside the rest for a couple of years. This got me thinking of my other wines. I have many in the 2005-2007 range. I ran a report on CT and about 50% of my wines fall into this age range. Is this something I can expect to happen from time to time? Is there any new theories/opinions on this? I like drinking wines 2-4 years old as well as wines over 10 years old depending on the mood/company/meal. Unfortunately I don't have many wines in that group since I have only started accumulating wines over the past 3 years. I could keep on going with questions but I'll stop here.
TIA

cortot20


quality posts: 130 Private Messages cortot20
amaizing wrote:BUMP

I've noticed some chatter recently about "The Dumb Phase" in wine. I drank a 2006 Wellington Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Handal-Denier
last night and was dissappointed. The last bottle I had was in June and it was very good. This one seemed to have minimal aroma and a flat/dull taste. It wasn't decanted but consumed over a 3-4 hour period. It didn't seem like a bad bottle. Could it be in a dumb phase now? Can decanting a wine release it from a dumb phase?There are no tasting notes in CT but interestingly the drinking range is 2014-2019. I checked the other vintages and the most recent note was for a 2003 by PolarBear22 in August. I guess I should set aside the rest for a couple of years. This got me thinking of my other wines. I have many in the 2005-2007 range. I ran a report on CT and about 50% of my wines fall into this age range. Is this something I can expect to happen from time to time? Is there any new theories/opinions on this? I like drinking wines 2-4 years old as well as wines over 10 years old depending on the mood/company/meal. Unfortunately I don't have many wines in that group since I have only started accumulating wines over the past 3 years. I could keep on going with questions but I'll stop here.
TIA



What I have read is that the dumb phase for well made Cabernet is 8-10 years from vintage. Which is why they say drink them young or mature but let them rest during adolescence. I believe it's unique to Cabernet and maybe PS. I for one have never knowingly come across a wine is this phase so I can't describe it.

For the 06' victory, I opened one at a restraunt nearly 2 years ago and with no decant or Venturi I found it dull and lifeless as well and vowed to hold the rest for awhile. Maybe you had a storage issue or a shipping issue. The wine could just need a lot of time to unwind.
If you want to experiment, try opening one, pouring a little out so the neck is clear. Recork and try at 6 hour intervals (or whatever interval you choose) and try to find the wines sweet spot.

CT

rpm


quality posts: 167 Private Messages rpm
cortot20 wrote:What I have read is that the dumb phase for well made Cabernet is 8-10 years from vintage. Which is why they say drink them young or mature but let them rest during adolescence. I believe it's unique to Cabernet and maybe PS. I for one have never knowingly come across a wine is this phase so I can't describe it.

For the 06' victory, I opened one at a restraunt nearly 2 years ago and with no decant or Venturi I found it dull and lifeless as well and vowed to hold the rest for awhile. Maybe you had a storage issue or a shipping issue. The wine could just need a lot of time to unwind.
If you want to experiment, try opening one, pouring a little out so the neck is clear. Recork and try at 6 hour intervals (or whatever interval you choose) and try to find the wines sweet spot.



I would peg the typical dumb phase for high quality Cabernet as anywhere from `5-7 through ~9-10. That would put 06 Victory in the early phases of its adolescence, with another 3-4 years anticipated before it starts emerging from its cocoon as a mature wine.

Second level Cabs that have aging potential usually sleep sooner, 4-5, and emerge earlier, ~8-9.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

NedDawg


quality posts: 34 Private Messages NedDawg

Anybody have any recent experience with how "dumb" these Corison's are:
2002
2003
2004* Kronos
2005*

*I only have one each of these, so it would be bad if I opened them in their adolescence.

jawlz


quality posts: 12 Private Messages jawlz
NedDawg wrote:Anybody have any recent experience with how "dumb" these Corison's are:
2002
2003
2004* Kronos
2005*

*I only have one each of these, so it would be bad if I opened them in their adolescence.



I had an '03 Corison a little under a year ago and it was drinking well, so it should be good to go, though IMO the '02s were terrific from ~'08 on (though I haven't had one in 3 or 4 years now), so I would start with those, pending the first bottle being good.

cmaldoon


quality posts: 62 Private Messages cmaldoon
NedDawg wrote:Anybody have any recent experience with how "dumb" these Corison's are:
2002
2003
2004* Kronos
2005*

*I only have one each of these, so it would be bad if I opened them in their adolescence.



I had an 03 Two weeks ago and it was fantastic. I figure it's good from now till 10 years from now

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