rpm


quality posts: 210 Private Messages rpm
North316 wrote:So us newbies, no matter high up on the list, should likely make other summer plans?



I can only reiterate what I wrote in August 2014:

Preference will go to Veterans (+1s of Veterans ok) for sure. Consent of the Instructor will be needed for any newbies.

This Tour will be strictly limited to 30 (+ rpm and SWMBO, who vows she will make this Tour).

I apologize in advance for the 30 limit - the size of the group this year was really at the outer edge of manageability. Besides, we usually end up with about that number no matter how many people are on the list early on. It's always worked out that way. I'd love to include everyone who wants to go, but that would mean doing the whole thing twice. Can't take that much time off my law practice.

I understand some who haven't been able make a prior Tour are disappointed I'm giving a preference to Veterans. I have mixed feeling about that, but my intention is that this be a Tour at least at the level of the 2012 Veteran Tour Cabernet Seminar, or the in-depth Napa visits at Corison, Beringer, and Bell. Extensive experience in tasting, varietals, and familiarity with the material covered in at least one prior Tour will be assumed.



My point in preferring veterans is to ensure that the level of the Tour will be high, that participants will know what to expect and will have enough experience to both contribute and benefit commensurately. I'm not 'closed' to new participants, but I do need to be comfortable that new participants have the background and tasting experience equivalent (at least) to veterans of one or more of the earlier Tours.

Potential 'newbie' Tour participants who are serious about making the Tour (if their numbers are high enough or the waiting list shrinks to the point they think they might have a shot) should PM me for information on how to send me an 'wine experience' or 'wine tasting' resume that will let me get a good sense of their experience with serious tasting.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

wkdpanda


quality posts: 14 Private Messages wkdpanda

First - before I say anything else - Thank you to RPM and crew for organizing this tour.

Regardless of how the rest of my post sounds, I mean that.

Having said that (yes, good then bad), we are now at 6 months from the projected dates, and people need to plan vacation dates. The sooner we have an itinerary, the better. I have enough seniority, to be able to take the two weeks without an issue, but my +1 will have to beg for the time off. So the sooner we know, the sooner the requests can be made.

Next, given that we are looking at a preference for veterans for the tour, will there be a new list posted, with updated places in the list?

And finally, do we have a rough idea of the costs per person we should start budgeting for? Share of bus costs, meals, etc. I have a rough idea in my head, but it all adds up.

----------------
Andy the Wicked Panda

tytiger58


quality posts: 82 Private Messages tytiger58

Last resume I submitted 32 years ago was turned down, don't think I want to go through that again. Probably not good enough palate anyways.

What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch? ~ W. C. Fields

“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used” Hunter S Thompson




tiger7610


quality posts: 20 Private Messages tiger7610

Yeah its not looking very likely then especially with the amount of veterans up there. Oh well, I guess someday...

rjquillin


quality posts: 287 Private Messages rjquillin
tytiger58 wrote:Last resume I submitted 32 years ago was turned down, don't think I want to go through that again. Probably not good enough palate anyways.

yak!

CT

cortot20


quality posts: 295 Private Messages cortot20
tytiger58 wrote:Last resume I submitted 32 years ago was turned down, don't think I want to go through that again. Probably not good enough palate anyways.



Reading RPM's post reminded why I didn't put my name on the list to begin with. No chance of making it based on current structure. Oh well.

CT

tiger7610


quality posts: 20 Private Messages tiger7610

I will reiterate my problem with this tour. Now first of all, I applaud RPM for putting this together, and I think its going to be amazing. My problem is two fold: this will require taking 2 weeks off, and this will probably cost around 2k/person. Add to that the veteran requirement, and I'm pretty sure that I will not be making this tour. It is sad, because it does seem like this might be the last one that is run. Again this is not a criticism of RPM's idea or effort he is putting in. This is just my, and some other people's lament, because making this tour was our dream come true. Good luck to everyone who goes and have fun.

rpm


quality posts: 210 Private Messages rpm
tiger7610 wrote:I will reiterate my problem with this tour. Now first of all, I applaud RPM for putting this together, and I think its going to be amazing. My problem is two fold: this will require taking 2 weeks off, and this will probably cost around 2k/person. Add to that the veteran requirement, and I'm pretty sure that I will not be making this tour. It is sad, because it does seem like this might be the last one that is run. Again this is not a criticism of RPM's idea or effort he is putting in. This is just my, and some other people's lament, because making this tour was our dream come true. Good luck to everyone who goes and have fun.



It really sounds like nothing I could do would make you happy: the tour's too long in your view, will cost too much, and I'm a bad guy for suggesting (all other things being equal) it is most appropriate for those who've already done at least one tour. From my perspective, most of your objections have their root in your not having done a prior tour.

What do you want?

A one week tour? That doesn't work doing two/three regions unless you do two days in one, move on Wednesday, two days in the other region. It also means asking people to fly on the week ends, which is more expensive. In the past, prospective Tourists have said they wanted to be able to fly on weekdays to lower costs.

A cheaper tour? TANSTAAFL

Two tours? I did that in 2012 and it was very hard on me, and the overlap day (necessary to get both tours in one week, since both Sunday and Saturday are so crowded with civilian tourists that wineries simply can't give a group the kind of attention we always get from them) shortchanged everyone. I swore to my wife I would not do that again before I retired (which I don't expect for about 10 years).

A "Newbie" tour? I'd really like to do something new to me this time.... While no two tours have been identical, there has been substantial overlap. I take my educational function seriously - ask the veterans - and really want this time to do more of what I did on the 2012 Cabernet Seminar/Veteran Tour and the Bell/Corison/Beringer portion of the 2014 tour. I suspect those who've done one or more tours, as much as they love a number of wineries we visit, would like to branch out a bit and add more depth to their experience.

A tour that accommodates 60-70 people after dropouts? That's just not manageable and won't give you the experience from the other tours? The wineries would hate it. Not going to happen.

I don't know. What would you want me to do? Be specific.

Perhaps it's all more trouble than it's worth. While my expenses are covered, I don't get paid for this. Assuming minimal billing in my law practice for the two weeks involved, it costs me over $15,000 in lost income and I spend money to buy wine.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

cortot20


quality posts: 295 Private Messages cortot20
rpm wrote:It really sounds like nothing I could do would make you happy: the tour's too long in your view, will cost too much, and I'm a bad guy for suggesting (all other things being equal) it is most appropriate for those who've already done at least one tour. From my perspective, most of your objections have their root in your not having done a prior tour.

What do you want?

A one week tour? That doesn't work doing two/three regions unless you do two days in one, move on Wednesday, two days in the other region. It also means asking people to fly on the week ends, which is more expensive. In the past, prospective Tourists have said they wanted to be able to fly on weekdays to lower costs.

A cheaper tour? TANSTAAFL

Two tours? I did that in 2012 and it was very hard on me, and the overlap day (necessary to get both tours in one week, since both Sunday and Saturday are so crowded with civilian tourists that wineries simply can't give a group the kind of attention we always get from them) shortchanged everyone. I swore to my wife I would not do that again before I retired (which I don't expect for about 10 years).

A "Newbie" tour? I'd really like to do something new to me this time.... While no two tours have been identical, there has been substantial overlap. I take my educational function seriously - ask the veterans - and really want this time to do more of what I did on the 2012 Cabernet Seminar/Veteran Tour and the Bell/Corison/Beringer portion of the 2014 tour. I suspect those who've done one or more tours, as much as they love a number of wineries we visit, would like to branch out a bit and add more depth to their experience.

A tour that accommodates 60-70 people after dropouts? That's just not manageable and won't give you the experience from the other tours? The wineries would hate it. Not going to happen.

I don't know. What would you want me to do? Be specific.

Perhaps it's all more trouble than it's worth. While my expenses are covered, I don't get paid for this. Assuming minimal billing in my law practice for the two weeks involved, it costs me over $15,000 in lost income and I spend money to buy wine.



Maybe a shortened timing between tours would work out. A 2017 Newbie only tour might get some traction and deflect a lot of the criticisms you are taking here. You could also take a hiatus afterwards and not plan on doing another one until 2019 if you so desired.

Just off the top of my head.

Thanks for engaging folks in a discussion on this no matter how painful it is.

CT

tiger7610


quality posts: 20 Private Messages tiger7610

RPM due to the limitations of the internet, I'm aware that the post came off as harsh. That was never my intention, I was just putting out complains that I heard from other people. As for suggestions I will give it some though, and maybe other people have it as well. Again this was not a criticism of you at all.

klezman


quality posts: 174 Private Messages klezman
tytiger58 wrote:Last resume I submitted 32 years ago was turned down, don't think I want to go through that again. Probably not good enough palate anyways.



You've got some good references for this one though

I stopped counting bottles. My CT

North316


quality posts: 108 Private Messages North316


A one week tour? Nope, timing is fine as long as enough advance notice is given for planning. Being one, I think that there would be less newbies if the last tour had been lined up earlier.

A cheaper tour? Nope, this is fine too, again if known far enough in advance.

Two tours? Not necessary, though I never understood why they had to be back-to-back, other than to minimize your own time consumption.

A "Newbie" tour? I think this is the heart of the problem. I think I speak for many on this issue. I drink wine. I understand wine. I enjoy education and learning. I would love such a once-and-a-lifetime opportunity that you are providing people with here. Are we wine experts? Nope. Do we judge wines? Nope. Would I consider putting together a "wine resume"? Not in a million years. Would I benefit from, learn, grow, etc from an event like this without embarrassing myself or the group? Absolutely.

A tour that accommodates 60-70 people after dropouts? We certainly understand all of your struggles here. It just sucks being those on the outside looking in, now with additional barriers and knowing that those barriers will only continue to grow because we were "unable to get in at the ground level" so to speak.

I digress, knowing that I don't meet the criteria. Two years ago I had hoped to be in, but details came out too late. I thought, well in two years this would be a perfect 5 year anniversary trip. Looks we are going to Disney World instead. There's always next time...hopefully.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

rpm


quality posts: 210 Private Messages rpm

PM for you

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

chipgreen


quality posts: 286 Private Messages chipgreen

It will be an amazing experience for those able to make it, although you all know that already since it will be a veterans tour, haha.

We are not especially high on the list (64/65) but might as well bow out now as it is just not going to happen for us this summer, for various reasons.

aces219


quality posts: 6 Private Messages aces219

Sounds amazing but I need to save up dumping my kids on someone for that long for our 10 year anniversary in 2017 when we are thinking Maldives. Am far down on the list anyway. Please leave us on though in case something miraculous happens.

We are headed to Healdsburg on 1/29 - 2/1, can't wait! We won free airfare to STS at Taste Washington last year.

jawlz


quality posts: 13 Private Messages jawlz

Interesting discussion...

My wife and I (#s 36 and 37 on the list) remain interested, pending dates being finalized. Having missed all previous tours, however, we would be newbies (albeit newbies with roughly a decade of experience in drinking wine at least somewhat thoughtfully).

Given our position on the list, I suppose I'd be interested in how to obtain the consent of the instructor, though we also will not feel put out if preference is given to veterans who are 'behind' us on the waiting list.

klezman


quality posts: 174 Private Messages klezman
chipgreen wrote:It will be an amazing experience for those able to make it, although you all know that already since it will be a veterans tour, haha.

We are not especially high on the list (64/65) but might as well bow out now as it is just not going to happen for us this summer, for various reasons.



Aw, boo.
You'll just have to make it out to SoCal instead so we can all rendezvous!

I stopped counting bottles. My CT

rpm


quality posts: 210 Private Messages rpm
jawlz wrote:Interesting discussion...

My wife and I (#s 36 and 37 on the list) remain interested, pending dates being finalized. Having missed all previous tours, however, we would be newbies (albeit newbies with roughly a decade of experience in drinking wine at least somewhat thoughtfully).

Given our position on the list, I suppose I'd be interested in how to obtain the consent of the instructor, though we also will not feel put out if preference is given to veterans who are 'behind' us on the waiting list.



PM me....

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

protease


quality posts: 1 Private Messages protease

Please add protease and protease +1
We will be 109 and 110.
Wish we can be there

mwfielder


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mwfielder

mwfielder, #80 & 81 on the list.

We're tour newbies, but still interested!

zero, count 'em, zero quality posts...

joelsisk


quality posts: 11 Private Messages joelsisk

Do we have any more clarity on the dates and/or a schedule for non-refundable deposits?

We are running into the same issue as last year, in that we are now within 4 months, and some of us need to book vacations if we have any hope to have time off. (particularly in July)

Especially as someone outside the initial spots, it gets harder to "trickle down" if we don't start the process.

thanks!

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 234 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Go ahead and remove my +3 & +4 from the list.

Thanks.


Edit: "Swish and Spit" is required while tasting. And those two can't seem to grasp it.

       x20             
Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

chemvictim


quality posts: 4 Private Messages chemvictim

We're pretty far down the list, but go ahead and strike us off. I can't imagine how we'd make it work. I did manage to bring cats along one year, but it turns out babies are more demanding than kitties.

HitAnyKey42


quality posts: 32 Private Messages HitAnyKey42

You can take us off the list as well. We're going to Costa Rica in May and then we have two weddings this summer, and various other stuff in life. So we've decided it's just not going to happen this year.

My Cellar
In a Glorious Marriage.Woot with cheron98
NYC Tastings

ddeuddeg


quality posts: 68 Private Messages ddeuddeg
joelsisk wrote:Do we have any more clarity on the dates?
We are running into the same issue as last year, in that we are now within 4 months, and some of us need to book vacations if we have any hope to have time off. (particularly in July)

Especially as someone outside the initial spots, it gets harder to "trickle down" if we don't start the process.

thanks!

We've heard nothing specific about tour dates in months. Even those of us who have no problem getting time off in the summer still have other things to coordinate, and airline flights are starting to fill up and become more expensive. For those of us flying from the East Coast (Buffalo, in particular), 4 days in Amador/Lodi, with a pre-tour gathering on the evening of July 11th means getting a 5:15AM flight to get there in time. Next flight is substantially more expensive or unavailable, depending on which airport we choose to fly into, and the one after that gets us there too late. Or we leave at a more reasonable hour on Sunday, and pay more for the flight, and an extra night in a hotel.
We really need things to be more fleshed out, date-wise, and the sooner, the better.
People on all parts of the list need information on which to base decisions.

Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge. - Hester Browne
Filmmaker/winemaker Francis Ford Coppola says his two professions are almost the same and that each depends on source material and takes a lot of time to perfect.
The big difference: "Today's winemakers still worry about quality."


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

tomatillo


quality posts: 14 Private Messages tomatillo

regrets from tomatillo +1, #91and92.
Shorten your list.

mommadeb1


quality posts: 27 Private Messages mommadeb1

With our daughter going to College in August...I need to save $$$ I sadly ask to have my name taken off the list.....

JOATMON


quality posts: 20 Private Messages JOATMON
mommadeb1 wrote:With our daughter going to College in August...I need to save $$$ I sadly ask to have my name taken off the list.....



Does that also include your +1?

Juvie: 30+24+4; Sellout: 6+7+0
Rags: 3+2+3
Drunk: 69+94+15 wine, 20+29+4 non-wine
Rugrat: 0+0+0; Refunded: 2+3+1
(as of 2011-03-02)

txmusicman49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages txmusicman49

With regrets, and as a gift to my liver, #89 txmusicman49 and #90 txmusicman49+1 need to be de-listed. Too much stuff in the way to take that much time off, although I'm sure it'll be great, as it always has been.

mommadeb1


quality posts: 27 Private Messages mommadeb1
JOATMON wrote:Does that also include your +1?



ha ha ... yes that includes my +1

wkdpanda


quality posts: 14 Private Messages wkdpanda

And while I would love to have made this tour, at this point, we must withdraw from the wait list. Please remove wkdpanda and my +1.

When the tour does go off, I expect daily updates and pictures to be jealous over!!

----------------
Andy the Wicked Panda

kkv123


quality posts: 12 Private Messages kkv123

If you are on the bubble, please watch this space regularly for updates. We are quickly approaching the 'point of no return' where it will no longer be possible to obtain travel arrangements that are fiscally feasible. So with each passing day, there is an increasing likelihood that two more slots will be open.

Not my ideal situation, but it is what it is.

[Edit: In rereading my post, I am struck by the thought that "on the bubble" sounds like a wonderfully prolonged champagne binge!]

ltraffis


quality posts: 9 Private Messages ltraffis
North316 wrote:A one week tour? Nope, timing is fine as long as enough advance notice is given for planning. Being one, I think that there would be less newbies if the last tour had been lined up earlier.

A cheaper tour? Nope, this is fine too, again if known far enough in advance.

Two tours? Not necessary, though I never understood why they had to be back-to-back, other than to minimize your own time consumption.

A "Newbie" tour? I think this is the heart of the problem. I think I speak for many on this issue. I drink wine. I understand wine. I enjoy education and learning. I would love such a once-and-a-lifetime opportunity that you are providing people with here. Are we wine experts? Nope. Do we judge wines? Nope. Would I consider putting together a "wine resume"? Not in a million years. Would I benefit from, learn, grow, etc from an event like this without embarrassing myself or the group? Absolutely.

A tour that accommodates 60-70 people after dropouts? We certainly understand all of your struggles here. It just sucks being those on the outside looking in, now with additional barriers and knowing that those barriers will only continue to grow because we were "unable to get in at the ground level" so to speak.

I digress, knowing that I don't meet the criteria. Two years ago I had hoped to be in, but details came out too late. I thought, well in two years this would be a perfect 5 year anniversary trip. Looks we are going to Disney World instead. There's always next time...hopefully.



North316..That was spot on!! I've been lurking in the shadow of all the tours because I wanted to wait until I retired. Although it's RPMs tour, I would think a nice blend of young/old and new/experienced wine aficionados would make a great tour. Having a group of guzzlers/pukers or just swishers/spitters would make the tour regrettable for me and maybe the g/p's are what RPM is trying to avoid. Asking for a wine resume is a little over the top and could be construed as insulting. Determining who has experience and doesn't have experience seems too subjective to me. I've been drinking wine since the 70's while stationed in Germany and touring Italy and four other countries, buying PX German wine and from local farmers; then beer and Crown Royal on the rocks through the 80's & 90's; and back to wine and IPAs in the 2000s. Since keeping my CellarTracker populated, I've consumed 600+ bottles following RPM recommendation of "popping a lot of corks" and have 100's of bottles stored in my cool basement. BUT I probably would be classified as a "Tour Rookie" and not a "Tour Veteran", even though I had a "Tour Experience" in the military!!! LOL. My final bucket list includes spending some time in CA, OR,& WA checking out my favorite Woot Wineries, others that come up along the path, and also taking a nice Alaskan salmon fishing trip to the Copper River area and out into the bay area for Halibut. So the order isn't important, it's just how, when, and with whom I do it with regardless of any status!! Have fun all, drink a lot of wine, and enjoy life without strings attached to it!!

Hope to see some Wooters at the April 15th Scott and Jana Wine Diner is Wooster, OH.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 234 Private Messages MarkDaSpark




Happy Anniversary to WineFarm and WineDavid39!!!


       x20             
Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

North316


quality posts: 108 Private Messages North316
ltraffis wrote: Asking for a wine resume is a little over the top and could be construed as insulting. Determining who has experience and doesn't have experience seems too subjective to me.



This.

And the lack of update in 3 months...alternative plans have been made. Would have loved to have made this a 5 year anniversary trip, but instead it will be spent at the Magical Kingdom.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

JOATMON


quality posts: 20 Private Messages JOATMON
North316 wrote:This.

And the lack of update in 3 months...alternative plans have been made. Would have loved to have made this a 5 year anniversary trip, but instead it will be spent at the Magical Kingdom.



Shall I then put you on the list as "regrets"?

Juvie: 30+24+4; Sellout: 6+7+0
Rags: 3+2+3
Drunk: 69+94+15 wine, 20+29+4 non-wine
Rugrat: 0+0+0; Refunded: 2+3+1
(as of 2011-03-02)

North316


quality posts: 108 Private Messages North316
JOATMON wrote:Shall I then put you on the list as "regrets"?



I don't regret my decision, so your call.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

otolith


quality posts: 26 Private Messages otolith
North316 wrote:I don't regret my decision, so your call.



I won't regret this decision, either, but it is not going to work this year.

Might try to make it out there on our own at some point.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
--John Muir

ddeuddeg


quality posts: 68 Private Messages ddeuddeg
ltraffis wrote:Asking for a wine resume is a little over the top and could be construed as insulting. Determining who has experience and doesn't have experience seems too subjective to me.
North316 wrote:This.

And the lack of update in 3 months...alternative plans have been made. Would have loved to have made this a 5 year anniversary trip, but instead it will be spent at the Magical Kingdom.

If I were looking for a way to assess someone's tasting experience, I might have chosen a different word than résumé. The post you and ltraffis refer to here does come across as perhaps a bit heavy-handed. That said, I'm in a position this year of teaching Pre-Calculus (I call it Algebra 3) to a group of students with wide-ranging abilities, several of whom would be hard-pressed to pass an Algebra 1 exam right now. I don't get to assess these students prior to their enrolling; ostensibly they are qualified to take the class based on having "successfully completed" the Algebra 2/Trig course, but somehow I have to teach them all without watering down the course so much that it becomes worthless for the ones who can handle the material, and without leaving the least capable in the dust. And believe me, the parents who are paying significant tuition for their sons to attend this school will complain loudly if they don't like the results. This despite the fact that most of them are Seniors, a number of whom feel that even minimal effort is beneath them, even though failing the class will mean they won't graduate next month.
Rpm takes his role as an educator on these tours very seriously, and has a great deal to offer. That's clear from the 4 previous tours bahwm and I have enjoyed, and during which we've learned a great deal. I don't mean to try to speak for him here, but I think it's fair to say that with the limitations imposed by the need to keep the group to a manageable size, and the rather considerable expense involved, he feels a deep personal obligation to give the participants their money's worth. It would be difficult to do that at the level he considers acceptable with a number of people who have no significant serious tasting experience at all, and to do less would short-change the ones who do have the level of experience he feels necessary to appreciate what he's trying to accomplish for us.

By the way, this is what you posted on August 8, 2016.

North316 wrote:As long as we know some details more than a month in advance, all will be well.

Of course, things change, and I share the frustration of not knowing enough to plan for this trip, especially since at the moment, there are 18 or 19 people ahead of us on the waiting list, but we had been looking forward to seeing you guys. Sooner or later, you'll be able make the Icewine trip again, and/or we'll all be able to get to Wooster.

Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge. - Hester Browne
Filmmaker/winemaker Francis Ford Coppola says his two professions are almost the same and that each depends on source material and takes a lot of time to perfect.
The big difference: "Today's winemakers still worry about quality."


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

ltraffis


quality posts: 9 Private Messages ltraffis
ddeuddeg wrote:...people who have no significant serious tasting experience at all...



Hey ddeuddeg, Sorry to hear that you and bawhm won't be making the Wooster Inn wine dinner next Friday!! I know RPM is very passionate about his tours and it's great that he takes time away from work to do it! Since it's his tour, he has every right to set some standards. I just thought it was strange to ask for a "resume"; talk about how much money he's losing being away from his practice; and send "PMs" off the open forum to some that had concerns. Gosh, he starting to sound like a LAWYER!!! LOL...LOL!

I enjoy great wine and I am always looking for new information on all phases of the wine industry. I'm sure his tours are a great learning experience!

Now don't get me going on education! The entire system needs to be revamped. I feel sorry for teachers in today's world!! Teachers are not baby sitters and parents need to support and help both teachers and their children while young minds are shaped into Engineers, Doctors, Auto Techs, Medical Techs, Machinists, Welders, Teachers, Lawyers, Business Leaders, etc.! Yet, I know personally how great teachers help those that struggle with a course. I had great teachers that were demanding and spent after hours helping until we understood. I continue to remember and respect them because I learned more from them than the easy graders. I was a student that HATED Calculus! I left HS wanting to become a Veterinarian, and finished in Business Management focusing on Quality and Safety.

Enough about education, I'm thirsty. Time to go downstairs and grab a bottle of wine for another experience! Take care ddeuddeg and be sure to say "HI" to bawhm!