klezman


quality posts: 130 Private Messages klezman
otolith wrote:Thanks for the insights, everyone. My son speaks pretty good German, so he'll survive.

Unfortunately, SWMBO decided he can't go, as it will overlap with the date her younger sister is getting married, and he'll get to go in another couple years, anyway...I don't think it'll be the end of the world if he misses the wedding, as none of us are really looking forward to it (a real long story). So, do you think it would be a big deal if he missed the wedding? He's 12. I'd appreciate any insight into this little curve ball.



I generally agree that family comes first, but each family is different. I claim no knowledge of your family's dynamics or what would be appropriate in that situation. All I have is the notion that discussing it with swmbo thoroughly is the best way forward.

2014: 57 bottles. Last wine.woot: 2011 Wellington Cab & Merlot, Roessler 2009 Bluejay, 2010 Bell Cabernet
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

otolith


quality posts: 24 Private Messages otolith
MarkDaSpark wrote:Yes. It's a family milestone. Family is more important than the trip, especially if he will get a chance to go when he's a little bit older.



bhodilee wrote:His attendance will not be noticed at what is apparently a farce anyway. Mom rules this one though, and this may come down from grandma.




I love this! I'm not going to push it, but I don't want the idea to die just yet, as it would be great for him to go.

What are the 2 greatest things you can give to your children? Roots, and Wings.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
--John Muir

ddeuddeg


quality posts: 35 Private Messages ddeuddeg
otolith wrote:I love this! I'm not going to push it, but I don't want the idea to die just yet, as it would be great for him to go.

What are the 2 greatest things you can give to your children? Roots, and Wings.

Seriously, I can't see the need for a 12-year-old to be required to attend the wedding, but it all needs to be weighed against the need to maintain peace and harmony. I mean, they don't call her SWMBO for nuthin'.

"Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge". - Hester Browne


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
otolith wrote:Thanks for the insights, everyone. My son speaks pretty good German, so he'll survive.

Unfortunately, SWMBO decided he can't go, as it will overlap with the date her younger sister is getting married, and he'll get to go in another couple years, anyway...I don't think it'll be the end of the world if he misses the wedding, as none of us are really looking forward to it (a real long story). So, do you think it would be a big deal if he missed the wedding? He's 12. I'd appreciate any insight into this little curve ball.



world travel trumps wedding!!

mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
bhodilee wrote:So will he need to go to the divorce proceedings also?



good question!!

mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
otolith wrote:I love this! I'm not going to push it, but I don't want the idea to die just yet, as it would be great for him to go.

What are the 2 greatest things you can give to your children? Roots, and Wings.



my son has missed family weddings... I don't feel the need to drag my son to 1. something he has no interest in and will be miserable...2. I am a firm believer in not passing up opportunities...... you say he can go in a couple of years? what happens if that doesn't work out? he missed out on a really cool opportunity!! just sayin .... as a mom of a boy about the same age.....

pseudogourmet98


quality posts: 19 Private Messages pseudogourmet98
bhodilee wrote:This phrase is reserved exclusively for biscuits and gravy. Please insert a quarter and try again.


Well, clearly I stepped on something sacred here. Would "sex on a fork" be acceptable (or is that reserved as well)?

Regarding biscuits 'n gravy: here in the south you can find lots of tasty "heaven". Maybe that's why they call the South "God's country".

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
otolith wrote:I love this! I'm not going to push it, but I don't want the idea to die just yet, as it would be great for him to go.

What are the 2 greatest things you can give to your children? Roots, and Wings.



This is a no-brainer. Germany trumps wedding, period. If anyone has the gall to be upset that your 12 year-old son missed the opportunity to spend two weeks in Germany to attend a 30 minute ceremony and a 4 hour reception then that is just a few less people you have to invite to his wedding when the day comes.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
bhodilee wrote:So will he need to go to the divorce proceedings also?



Of course!! Besides, the judge will ask him which parent he can wheedle the most goodies out of!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
otolith wrote:I love this! I'm not going to push it, but I don't want the idea to die just yet, as it would be great for him to go.

What are the 2 greatest things you can give to your children? Roots, and Wings.



True, but without stable roots (Family), those wings won't help.

It would be different if this was a once in a lifetime trip, that he will never go there again. But you said he will go in a couple of years, so family trumps trip.


North316 wrote:This is a no-brainer. Germany trumps wedding, period. If anyone has the gall to be upset that your 12 year-old son missed the opportunity to spend two weeks in Germany to attend a 30 minute ceremony and a 4 hour reception then that is just a few less people you have to invite to his wedding when the day comes.



Actually, it would mean he had no brain to let him go, if SWMBO is insisting. He's 12 ... Germany is not going to mean that much. Believe me, I've been there.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
MarkDaSpark wrote:Actually, it would mean he had no brain to let him go, if SWMBO is insisting. He's 12 ... Germany is not going to mean that much. Believe me, I've been there.



It's going to mean a heck of a lot more than a wedding of his aunt. Wedding of brother, sister, maybe even a close cousin, different story. Aunt = Germany wins. Different folks different strokes.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

chemvictim


quality posts: 4 Private Messages chemvictim

Heh...childless-person random opinion again, but nobody gives a flip whether a 12-year-old misses a wedding. Seriously. There might or might not have been kids in attendance at my wedding and I give zero peanut butter jelly times. A trip to Germamy, however, is not to be missed and cannot be made up, will never be "the same" at some later age. I was sheltered as a kid and never allowed to go anywhere, do anything. I grew up a timid creature and I am still a timid creature and trying to overcome it all the time. A trip to Germany will make you brave. It's a great opportunity.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:It's going to mean a heck of a lot more than a wedding of his aunt. Wedding of brother, sister, maybe even a close cousin, different story. Aunt = Germany wins. Different folks different strokes.



Yes, we see that in the Occupy movement. Me more important than family or anyone else. Me, me, me, me.

What if this is the last time he sees his grandma? More special than Germany?

Too many people nowadays put themselves first over everyone else, including family. And expect it.

If this was a birthday (unless grandma's or a decade one), then probably let him go to Germany. But weddings are bigger. It's the time you see family you hardly ever see, and a chance to connect or re-connect with them.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
MarkDaSpark wrote:Yes, we see that in the Occupy movement. Me more important than family or anyone else. Me, me, me, me.

What if this is the last time he sees his grandma? More special than Germany?

Too many people nowadays put themselves first over everyone else, including family. And expect it.

If this was a birthday (unless grandma's or a decade one), then probably let him go to Germany. But weddings are bigger. It's the time you see family you hardly ever see, and a chance to connect or re-connect with them.



ahhh, but grasshopper.... what if seeing this family is not all that important? what if this family is seen all the time?

actually, in our family, they completely understand if you have a great opportunity to take it...

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
pseudogourmet98 wrote:Well, clearly I stepped on something sacred here. Would "sex on a fork" be acceptable (or is that reserved as well)?

Regarding biscuits 'n gravy: here in the south you can find lots of tasty "heaven". Maybe that's why they call the South "God's country".



I KNOW! Plus inbreeding!

Edit: Seriously, the teachers here will love this (and be thankful I was never their student), when I was a Junior they made us read Grapes of Wrath (hated it, Steinbeck is a wordy loser). Anyway, so we're talking in class and having this serious "discussion" about how hard life was during the depression and I was tired of said "discussion" so I decided to bring it to a screeching halt by asking how, exactly, their life was hard when they ate biscuits and gravy every morning, meanwhile I'm just sitting here in this classroom listening to you pretend to know what you're talking about and be "deep and insightful". The "discussion" may have continued, but at that point I was excused from being part of it and spent an hour in the principal's office drinking mountain dew and talking Baseball.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
MarkDaSpark wrote:Of course!! Besides, the judge will ask him which parent he can wheedle the most goodies out of!



I was referring to the sister's divorce proceeding, as that will also be a family milestone.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

HitAnyKey42


quality posts: 29 Private Messages HitAnyKey42
otolith wrote:Thanks for the insights, everyone. My son speaks pretty good German, so he'll survive.

Unfortunately, SWMBO decided he can't go, as it will overlap with the date her younger sister is getting married, and he'll get to go in another couple years, anyway...I don't think it'll be the end of the world if he misses the wedding, as none of us are really looking forward to it (a real long story). So, do you think it would be a big deal if he missed the wedding? He's 12. I'd appreciate any insight into this little curve ball.



I do agree with some of the other comments about how every family has different dynamics (such as you saying that none of you are looking forward to this wedding).
But speaking as someone who just got married, and had a brother who refused to bring his 3 daughters, I'm still rather annoyed at him about it. But in this regard, he had no "good" excuse. Then again, he didn't even end up bringing his wife. And I think that's probably where it stemmed from, since she's a cake is a lie and seems to have no desire to be involved at all with our side of the family. I ended up having to ask my cousin to come up with her two daughters to be my flower girls, which I'm at least happy to say turned out wonderfully.

I think I got a little off topic here. Suffice to say, if the sister of SWMBO wants the children there, I would suggest doing so to keep family tensions down.
Though a trip to Germany is a good excuse, and (if any of his kids were old enough) if that was the reason one of his wouldn't make it, I would have been fine with it.
Also, has your son been to multiple family weddings? Would the family wedding be a somewhat new experience for him? If this would be his first, or so, then I would also say the wedding trumps Germany.

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North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
MarkDaSpark wrote:Yes, we see that in the Occupy movement. Me more important than family or anyone else. Me, me, me, me.

What if this is the last time he sees his grandma? More special than Germany?

Too many people nowadays put themselves first over everyone else, including family. And expect it.



That's the worst argument you've had yet. I've heard of "live like its your last day", but never "live like it is someone else's last day". You can't not live your life because it could be the last time you see someone. If that were the case, you can't miss anymore woot gatherings, ever, because it might be the last time you see those people.....OR you can't ever go to a woot event again and leave your family, because it could be the last time you see them. See how ridiculous that is?

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:That's the worst argument you've had yet. I've heard of "live like its your last day", but never "live like it is someone else's last day". You can't not live your life because it could be the last time you see someone. If that were the case, you can't miss anymore woot gatherings, ever, because it might be the last time you see those people.....OR you can't ever go to a woot event again and leave your family, because it could be the last time you see them. See how ridiculous that is?



???? Where's Trollface Hiding?? I think you pulled that out of someplace where the sun don't shine. Talk about ridiculous.


I'm saying that as we raise our kids to be selfish, don't be surprised when they ARE selfish.

Put it this way ... I've missed more events these past 2 years that I would have loved to go to, because my parents had medical/health/other problems over the last two years. But because I was raised to love others more than myself, it wasn't a burden.

If I had been a selfish forever alone, then I would have been going to Woot events left and right, as well as other friends' events.

I never said live like it's someone else's last day, but rather teach your kids to treasure family while they can. I had lost every grandparent before I was 10.

I still treasure the time I had with them, and wish I'd had more time with them. Not being a selfish forever alone that some people are today (see Occupy Movement).


Oh, and by the way, don't you think that your stance is YOLO? You only live once, so go to Germany and forget your family?


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
MarkDaSpark wrote:Oh, and by the way, don't you think that your stance is YOLO? You only live once, so go to Germany and forget your family?



I've always thought that anyone who utters that phrase should get to test that theory immediately.

Also, I think it's more selfish of the sister to demand he be there instead of going on this trip (if that's the case, I don't know the circumstances). I honestly don't remember what kids were at my wedding,hell I don't remember which adults were at my wedding, hell the whole wedding is kind of hazy if truth be told. My wedding wasn't about the people that came, it was about the person I married. I wanted to do it at a resort in Jamaica, just the two of us, but we got guilted into doing it Omaha, and I'm still bitter about it!

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

InFrom


quality posts: 34 Private Messages InFrom
North316 wrote:That's the worst argument you've had yet. I've heard of "live like its your last day", but never "live like it is someone else's last day". You can't not live your life because it could be the last time you see someone. If that were the case, you can't miss anymore woot gatherings, ever, because it might be the last time you see those people.....OR you can't ever go to a woot event again and leave your family, because it could be the last time you see them. See how ridiculous that is?


This whole discussion has been an interesting example of how we extrapolate from our own experiences to draw conclusions about how others should act or feel in a particular situation. Sparky, unless you know more about Oto's family than I do, it seemed you were assuming that Grammy is elderly or in fragile health, and that each family visit with her may be the last. But what if that's not the case?

Without knowing a whole lot more about the family dynamics, we're all just taking a shot in the dark. Maybe the bride is like Chem, who isn't particularly interested in having the kiddies around, or maybe the bride is like HAK, who was disappointed that part of his family didn't attend, or maybe she's like one of those Bridezillas who insists that everything stop for her special day, where the failure of a 12-y-o nephew to attend causes major issues. Ya gotta figure that Mrs. Oto has a reliable sense of how her sister and/or mom would react to Sonny's absence. It just may not be worth the drama to let him go. Which would be a shame, IMO, but it's a calculation the family needs to make, knowing the players involved.

PS Sparky, Injecting a rant at the "Me Generation"/Occupy movement into this conversation about Doc O's family seemed a bit of a stretch to me... Were you really saying that those of us who support the kid going overseas instead of to the wedding are all some kind of selfish radicals?


InFrom


quality posts: 34 Private Messages InFrom
MarkDaSpark wrote:Oh, and by the way, don't you think that your stance is YOLO?

Dude, we do only live once -- start drinking down that cellar(s) of yours!

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
InFrom wrote:This whole discussion has been an interesting example of how we extrapolate from our own experiences to draw conclusions about how others should act or feel in a particular situation. Sparky, unless you know more about Oto's family than I do, it seemed you were assuming that Grammy is elderly or in fragile health, and that each family visit with her may be the last. But what if that's not the case?

Without knowing a whole lot more about the family dynamics, we're all just taking a shot in the dark. Maybe the bride is like Chem, who isn't particularly interested in having the kiddies around, or maybe the bride is like HAK, who was disappointed that part of his family didn't attend, or maybe she's like one of those Bridezillas who insists that everything stop for her special day, where the failure of a 12-y-o nephew to attend causes major issues. Ya gotta figure that Mrs. Oto has a reliable sense of how her sister and/or mom would react to Sonny's absence. It just may not be worth the drama to let him go. Which would be a shame, IMO, but it's a calculation the family needs to make, knowing the players involved.

PS Sparky, Injecting a rant at the "Me Generation"/Occupy movement into this conversation about Doc O's family seemed a bit of a stretch to me... Were you really saying that those of us who support the kid going overseas instead of to the wedding are all some kind of selfish radicals?



I'm not assuming Grammy's is elderly or in fragile health. We don't know much about the bride.

We do know that Oto's wife wants her son to be there, and not in Germany. We also know that this will not be his only chance to go to Germany.


And I'm including the rants about the Occupy movement because to me, that's the result of years of catering to kids. Putting their "wants" (not "needs") over family.

Contrast the kids in the Occupy movement with the "kids" in our military.

The trip to Germany is a "want", not a "need". As long as it doesn't conflict with the wedding, I would be for it.


It all comes down to "roots" and "wings". You want to give your child the room to grow their own wings and fly, but to do so, you need to make sure they have strong "roots" to do so.

IMO, too many parents were/are giving too much room for "wings" and not enough "roots". Family is part of a strong root system.

As Chem noted, you don't want to keep them too close and stunt their "wings", but you do want to give them strong "roots" so they can spread their "wings".

Trip to Germany = Want / "wings"

Family Wedding = Need / "roots"


Just remember, Icarus flew too close to the sun because he wasn't prepared enough. You need those roots to have strong wings.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
InFrom wrote:Dude, we do only live once -- start drinking down that cellar(s) of yours!



Not me! I'm coming back as a sparkling Vampire!!!


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

chemvictim


quality posts: 4 Private Messages chemvictim

Look what you've done, Doc O. I hope you're happy!

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 617 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

mommadeb1 wrote:.


PM



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kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus

Going to a family wedding is a need?

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

otolith


quality posts: 24 Private Messages otolith
chemvictim wrote:Look what you've done, Doc O. I hope you're happy!



Ha!

It's a lively discussion, and I'm glad to see polarizing views.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
--John Muir

otolith


quality posts: 24 Private Messages otolith
kylemittskus wrote:Going to a family wedding is a need?



I think seeing family that you may not see that often is more of a need.

OK, I have to operate, now. I'll reply later when I have more time.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe."
--John Muir

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
kylemittskus wrote:Going to a family wedding is a need?



Exactly. No need there. That is more of a Want by the wife/bride, etc, than going to Germany is, imho. I certainly used enough hyperbole in my last post, but that was for effect. I just don't see how a wedding is much of a "specially family event" for a 12 year old child. Honestly, if the wedding is that much about "the kid needs to see his family and spend time with them", and it if it is that important, than the family should probably take a step back and assess what else is going in their lives that their children don't get to see their family on a regular basis. Yeah, sure, it is "memories", but who really has some great family memories from a wedding they went to in their pre-teens?

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
otolith wrote:I think seeing family that you may not see that often is more of a need.

OK, I have to operate, now. I'll reply later when I have more time.



That's why I invented Skype and Al Gore invented the internet.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj

Oto's SWMBO MBO. If it's truly that important to her and her family, then that's the way it goes. With my family the decision would have been different, and we even still all get along, but other families take a different approach to things.

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:Exactly. No need there. That is more of a Want by the wife/bride, etc, than going to Germany is, imho. I certainly used enough hyperbole in my last post, but that was for effect. I just don't see how a wedding is much of a "specially family event" for a 12 year old child. Honestly, if the wedding is that much about "the kid needs to see his family and spend time with them", and it if it is that important, than the family should probably take a step back and assess what else is going in their lives that their children don't get to see their family on a regular basis. Yeah, sure, it is "memories", but who really has some great family memories from a wedding they went to in their pre-teens?



I do. And so did my Dad, and Mom, and Aunt & Uncle. And my cousins.


Of course, my parents were married. For 62 years. And my Aunt & Uncle have now been married for 62 years. And my grandparents were married for almost 50 years, til my grandmother died at 66 (when I was 6).

There are a lot of good memories (and funny ones) associated with weddings and family events. Even as a pre-teen.

Yes, my trip to Europe was great, but I would trade all of those good memories for more time with my grandparents.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother
Itwdswafo wrote:Amen.... And I can't find anywhere (or anywhere decent) that has it in the northeast. WHY!?




Ground pork grizzle bechamel over short soda bread. Yum.

I can understand why people without access to clams would waste heavy cream in such an application, but in the northeast? pshaw. compared with our savory starch thickened heavy cream food- New England Clam Chowder.

(Besides we're north of the bagel-biscuit line!)

mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
ThunderThighs wrote:PM



if you haven't left yet...replied...

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
mommadeb1 wrote:if you haven't left yet...replied...



I think she already left ... her sig line shows ... on Vacation.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

mother


quality posts: 15 Private Messages mother

Alles machts nichts wenn mutter hat gesprochen!

I was 14 when I was an exchange student in Germany. Was a very formative and positive experience (except for the amount I spend to travel as an adult, I guess...). You never know what a few years from now will bring in life.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 617 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

MarkDaSpark wrote:I think she already left ... her sig line shows ... on Vacation.

Van is loaded with first load and now we rest in the hotel.

Plus, been watching for MD's reply.



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mommadeb1


quality posts: 18 Private Messages mommadeb1
ThunderThighs wrote:Van is loaded with first load and now we rest in the hotel.

Plus, been watching for MD's reply.



Replied!!! Thank you!!!!
Now go on your trip!!!!

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 617 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

mommadeb1 wrote:Replied!!! Thank you!!!!
Now go on your trip!!!!


Already here. The van is filled with stuff from storage. We store all his stuff over the summer rather than bringing it home.

Glad it worked out!



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