winesmith wrote:... a very cynical approach to crowd-pleasing a la Carol Doda that has nothing to do with terroir.

Not many of us on here are old enough to get this reference without doing some research.

Finances, specifically the lack of, preclude me from joining. Wellington hurt my wine buying recently. These wines sound amazing, and I know I will be kicking myself for not convincing myself to spend money I don't have.

This entire thread and discussion has been great, and reminds me of the "old" woot. There is a lot of good information, and great winemaker participation.

In for one:

Speed to First Woot: 3m 41.222s

First Sucker: Allieroon
Last Wooter to Woot: bsevern
Last Purchase: a few seconds ago

I've been on a quest for the "perfect" Chardonnay.

So far my two favorites are:

2007 Domaine Drouhin Oregon Chardonnay Arthur (very French in style)

2009 RustRidge Napa Valley Estate Chardonnay

North316 wrote:Oh yeah, forgot to mention, Clark get rid of the Wax! haha. I tried a suggestion from another winery when opening this bottle; just pull the cork through the wax they told me... Ended up with shattered wax and a broken cork, fail.

That's what I do - just ignore the wax and pull right through. The top of the wax will pop off. Now to be candid, the corks in the 2003, while in good shape, are somewhat soft after ten years and do have a tendency to split or crumble when you're opening. Draw the cork slowly or use an Ah-so. It's no biggie.

ddeuddeg wrote:I've started to get funny looks at both the FedEx and UPS locations.

That's why I am so glad to have my stuff shipped straight to a cellar. No weird looks or worry about picking it up THIS week. I have a Monty's leeway on pickup. It's great if you can swing it. Plus if you find the right place it can be comparable to the cost of powering a small wine fridge bottle for bottle.

losthighwayz wrote:still waiting for Kyle to comment on the wax enclosure... On a serious note, digging the winery p[articipation...learned a lot thus far and though chards not usually my cup of tea I am very intrigued...I have been trying to figure out the difference between minerality/fizz/acidity so maybe this can clarify or help me figure out the distinction?

An excellent question. Check out my Nov 2010 article in WInes and Vines http://bit.ly/gKzRCb.

In short, what I call minerality is an energetic buzz in the finish often mistaken for acidity, but in a different place in the mouth. Acidity is further forward on the tongue, except for acetic acid (vinegar), which is in the finish but has a different taste I'm sure you'll recognize.

We don't know whatcauses this sensation, but it's similar to licking a battery, and may actually be a static electrical discharge.

bsevern wrote:In for one:

Speed to First Woot: 3m 41.222s

First Sucker: Allieroon
Last Wooter to Woot: bsevern
Last Purchase: a few seconds ago

I've been on a quest for the "perfect" Chardonnay.

So far my two favorites are:

2007 Domaine Drouhin Oregon Chardonnay Arthur (very French in style)

2009 RustRidge Napa Valley Estate Chardonnay

Find and buy Ceritas chards maybe the best Cali chard available IMHO

losthighwayz wrote:I recall that recently Kyle and a few others commented on their dislike for wax for various reasons, among them making the bottle difficult to open. I agree completely. I find these enclosures visually offensive, difficult to handle, and as merely a marketing scheme..IMO they do not add anything to the wine though I may be wrong...

Yeah, okay, I hear you, guys. The thing is, I love this bowling pin bottle, and its top is so fat that nobody sells capsules for it. I personally like the had-dipped appearance that signals a small lot production.

Frankly, I don't think there's a winemaker left on the planet who wouldn't prefer to put everything in screwcaps. I took this wine to a consulting gig with 30 winemakers in Australia, and they didn't have a single corkscrew between them. Some of the younger ones didn't even know what is was.

However, with all the heat I get as a wine technology guy, this ultra-traditional look seemed a better idea at the time. Now that I'm among friends (you guys), I suppose I could relax.

Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

ScottHarveyWines wrote:Clark Smith has changed our winemaking possibilities more than any person alive today. I for one have greatly benefited from his work.

Thank you, Scott. You are a true gent.

winesmith wrote:Yeah, okay, I hear you, guys. The thing is, I love this bowling pin bottle, and its top is so fat that nobody sells capsules for it. I personally like the had-dipped appearance that signals a small lot production.

Frankly, I don't think there's a winemaker left on the planet who wouldn't prefer to put everything in screwcaps. I took this wine to a consulting gig with 30 winemakers in Australia, and they didn't have a single corkscrew between them. Some of the younger ones didn't even know what is was.

However, with all the heat I get as a wine technology guy, this ultra-traditional look seemed a better idea at the time. Now that I'm among friends (you guys), I suppose I could relax.

Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

we like screwcaps around here, because we understand (though RMP will fairly vehemently disagree on that one). I also like bottles with no foil on them. Just bottle and cork. I generally see no need for wax on my bottle unless its a good looking large format bottle, then it adds some style, ala Scott Harvey's 3L Jana Cathedral.

keithnowak7 wrote:Finances, specifically the lack of, preclude me from joining. Wellington hurt my wine buying recently. These wines sound amazing, and I know I will be kicking myself for not convincing myself to spend money I don't have.

This entire thread and discussion has been great, and reminds me of the "old" woot. There is a lot of good information, and great winemaker participation.

This describes my (sad) situation exactly, right down to the Wellington. Cheers to winemaker participation! Always my favorite part of wine.woot.

I will be debating still buying this regardless for the rest of the day, and am not sure where I'll land.

cmaldoon wrote:That's why I am so glad to have my stuff shipped straight to a cellar. No weird looks or worry about picking it up THIS week.

I, like many others I am sure, have established a good relationship with the FedEx Office folks. They will hold mine much longer (longest has been 2.5 weeks). I have even been invited to the employee holiday parties, BBQs etc... The motivation is clear that they want to try what I am buying.

cmaldoon wrote:Plus if you find the right place it can be comparable to the cost of powering a small wine fridge bottle for bottle.

I would love to see the math on this. Have you measured how much energy your fridge is using? The only place this may ring true is if you compare unequal quantities, i.e. comparing the per bottle cost from a 28 bottle fridge to a 20 case locker per bottle. If you compare something like a large vinotheque to a comparable sized locker I'm pretty sure you will find that the cabinet is much cheaper per bottle. As always the ratio will change based on where you live, ambient temps, etc...

My 288 barely runs in the cooler months and at worst runs 8 hours per day in the summer. 3A 120V, so worst case lets round up to 3kW-hrs per day. Even the worst months run less than 50 cents a day for 24 cases. I haven't ever seen a locker for less than that. Average that down for the months it runs less, or not at all and it comes down to less than 20 cents per day for 24 cases.

Of course this doesn't factor in the capital costs. There are definite motivations for lockers such as no room, accepted shipments, etc... I just wouldn't go as far as to say the costs (operating) are comparable.

winesmith wrote:Yeah, okay, I hear you, guys. The thing is, I love this bowling pin bottle, and its top is so fat that nobody sells capsules for it. I personally like the had-dipped appearance that signals a small lot production.

Frankly, I don't think there's a winemaker left on the planet who wouldn't prefer to put everything in screwcaps. I took this wine to a consulting gig with 30 winemakers in Australia, and they didn't have a single corkscrew between them. Some of the younger ones didn't even know what is was.

However, with all the heat I get as a wine technology guy, this ultra-traditional look seemed a better idea at the time. Now that I'm among friends (you guys), I suppose I could relax.

Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

The look, yes. I'm all about the retro. But in practice? I've only had one waxy bottle lately, something from Washington state, and what a bear it was to open! Ugh. Give me a nice screw-top any time.

BTW, in for one, looking forward to trying them! The conversation today definitely put me over the edge. I notice that the seniority of purchasers skews strongly toward those here >1 year. No surprise, as someone else noted, today's board is more like the wine.woot of yore, the one that sucked me in so effectively a few years ago. Ah yes, I remember it well...

winesmith wrote:Thank you, Scott. You are a true gent.

Some say he's a scholar AND a gentleman.

spammie wrote:I don't need more wine. I don't even want more wine. But I'm a sucker for a winemaker who comes on-site & provides so much information.

Speed to first woot: 3m 41.222s
First sucker:Allieroon
Last wooter to woot:spammie

If I used my funds to pay off my debt, I would be better off financially. Then again, I won't have any wine, either.

North316 wrote:we like screwcaps around here, because we understand (though RMP will fairly vehemently disagree on that one). I also like bottles with no foil on them. Just bottle and cork. I generally see no need for wax on my bottle unless its a good looking large format bottle, then it adds some style, ala Scott Harvey's 3L Jana Cathedral.

I also am not a huge fan of the bottle shape, but that is due to my wine cooler. Pyramid stacking of bottles with non-parallel side-walls does not usually work so well.

I got a private message asking if there is a book in me.

There is! It will be out in June from UC Press, entitled Postmodern Winemaking. See http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520275195.

For you super enogeeks and aspiring winemakers, my next weekend class on Fundamentals of Wine Chemistry http://winemaking411.com/wine-chemistry is May 10-11 in Santa Rosa.

ddeuddeg wrote:
Not many of us on here are old enough to get this reference without doing some research.

I am certainly showing myself to be an old fart. Who would be the modern equivalent?

InFrom wrote:Ah yes, I remember it well...

Now if you're going to go quoting Maurice Chevalier, I guess I'm not the only old fart on this board!

winesmith wrote:...
Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

Love the look, but I despise wax tops when having to deal with opening them!

The fat bottles are a PITA to cellar (I have one wine fridge specifically for Pinot because they tend to use similarly shaped bottles, but the larger size significantly diminishes it's storage capacity).

winesmith wrote:Yeah, okay, I hear you, guys. The thing is, I love this bowling pin bottle, and its top is so fat that nobody sells capsules for it. I personally like the had-dipped appearance that signals a small lot production.

Frankly, I don't think there's a winemaker left on the planet who wouldn't prefer to put everything in screwcaps. I took this wine to a consulting gig with 30 winemakers in Australia, and they didn't have a single corkscrew between them. Some of the younger ones didn't even know what is was.

However, with all the heat I get as a wine technology guy, this ultra-traditional look seemed a better idea at the time. Now that I'm among friends (you guys), I suppose I could relax.

Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

Yes, I like the wax look. I don't mind having to chip through it but I've had occasional bouts of frustration with similarly capped bottles before.

Had to jump in even though I have to have it sent elsewhere because live in Virginia. The winemaker's participation has been awesome and yes, I too like the look but hate the wax.

winesmith wrote:Now if you're going to go quoting Maurice Chevalier, I guess I'm not the only old fart on this board!

Ha! Guilty as charged. (I gather we're around the same age -- is that really old? Say it ain't so!)

I haven't stopped buying current music, but I do love the old stuff. Hmm, maybe that does make me an old f...

klezman wrote:Yes, I like the wax look. I don't mind having to chip through it but I've had occasional bouts of frustration with similarly capped bottles before.

I just hit it with a blow torch for a couple of seconds and it come off nice and clean

klezman wrote:Yes, I like the wax look. I don't mind having to chip through it but I've had occasional bouts of frustration with similarly capped bottles before.

I don't mind the wax, and i like the look. I think folks just need to carry a decent pocket knife (or a sharp knife in the kitchen) and it's not a problem. I've opened many and haven't had an issue. I guess if you use a butter knife or the crappy foil blade on a corkscrew I can see where it would be a pain and result in a chipping process.

winesmith wrote:An excellent question. Check out my Nov 2010 article in WInes and Vines http://bit.ly/gKzRCb.

In short, what I call minerality is an energetic buzz in the finish often mistaken for acidity, but in a different place in the mouth. Acidity is further forward on the tongue, except for acetic acid (vinegar), which is in the finish but has a different taste I'm sure you'll recognize.

We don't know whatcauses this sensation, but it's similar to licking a battery, and may actually be a static electrical discharge.

Thanks for replying and will check out your articlein a bit. In the meantime, am I correct to call the slight fizzinnes I detect on the mid-sides of my tongue as minerality? This always happens with some SBs or Rose's...

Anyone in LA-Area (preferably SGV) willing to split?

winesmith wrote:Is there anybody out there who actually likes the look I'm using?

Look, schmook. The wax is a PITA - of course, I think that capsules are a waste too. I also think the wax opens you up to a certain amount of liability with folks punching a knife through their palm trying to get it off the bottle. I wish you could just paint the top of the bottle to look like it had a capsule and be done with it. And since you asked (you did, didn't you?) they should make screw tops that completely get removed from the bottle so that glass recyclers wouldn't have to deal with the metal ring left behind.

And ...

Many thanks for making this style of chard! I so really enjoy the lack of butter and the bracing minerality. Keep it up!

trifecta wrote:I don't mind the wax, and i like the look. I think folks just need to carry a decent pocket knife (or a sharp knife in the kitchen) and it's not a problem. I've opened many and haven't had an issue. I guess if you use a butter knife or the crappy foil blade on a corkscrew I can see where it would be a pain and result in a chipping process.

Guilty! But I never want to use a nice blade on a wax capsule. I have chipped, dinged and dulled enough blades on things I would have never thought would be an issue to try my them on a glass bottle covered in wax. But, I have one in mind that I may give a try when these arrive...

I can sometimes be greedy when it comes to conveniences, which probably is the source of the complaint for me All in all, it took me about 15~20 seconds when I can normally get one off in less than a second by hand or with a foil cutter.

Not the biggest deal in the world, but consider it a nuisance over the standard foil capsules or no capsule at all. It was good to see Clark's explanation, that it is due to the bottle shape he likes so much and the small lot look. Good enough for me, I'll survive.

I agree with others that I do like the look as well, but prefer the convenience over the aesthetics.

losthighwayz wrote:Anyone in LA-Area (preferably SGV) willing to split?

If your coming over on the 30th I will split mine with you.

losthighwayz wrote:Thanks for replying and will check out your articlein a bit. In the meantime, am I correct to call the slight fizzinnes I detect on the mid-sides of my tongue as minerality? This always happens with some SBs or Rose's...

A tough question. Many winemakers like to bottle whites and roses with slightly elevated subliminal levels of CO2, which is an acid and gives a tingle. Minerality doesn't really occur on the sides of the tongue, but we would need to taste together to be sure. (We should do that!) But this Chardonnay has low CO2, so you'll have one example that's clear cut.

InFrom wrote:Ha! Guilty as charged. (I gather we're around the same age -- is that really old? Say it ain't so!)

I haven't stopped buying current music, but I do love the old stuff. Hmm, maybe that does make me an old f...

Nah. The old stuff was just better, that's all.

woopdedoo wrote:I also think the wax opens you up to a certain amount of liability with folks punching a knife through their palm trying to get it off the bottle.

Well, I am learning from you guys too. I certainly don't want anybody slicing themselves open on my behalf. I really recommend just ignoring the wax and going through it with your corkscrew. It may be a little messy, but it's safe. I do it every day.

It's hard for me to think of these convenience issues. From my point of view, it took ten years to bring this wine to you so we could share an hour together, and if the opening of this archaic a minute or two, I guess I'm kind of pleased about that.

One mustn't underestimate the value of presentation and ritual. I love the convenience of my iPod, but frankly I felt the album art that came with vinyl was half the fun, so I look at an MP3 as a ripoff in terms of intimacy with the artist.

Things happen really slow in winemaking, and that's a good thing. I actually wrote a song on my CD (released later this year) about this issue called "If I Could Be The Wine." Invite me to a party and I'll play it for you.

Just got the second one of these.


Speed to First Woot: 3m 41.222s

First Sucker:Allieroon

Last Wooter to Woot:councile

Last Purchase:2 minutes ago

winesmith wrote:Thanks for chiming in anyhow. Not to press, but you might discover that being persuaded to dribble down-court and shoot this wine's basket instead of expecting it to shoot yours can expand your notion of the possible. I love to pour this for people who say they don't like white wine. It usually turns out they just don't like bad white wine.

I do like white wine, just have never found a chard. that I liked..... and I have tried... really I have....

huh, that's the first time i've ever seen tax on wine shipped here to NY.. is this something new to expect from now on?

winesmith wrote:Well, I am learning from you guys too. I certainly don't want anybody slicing themselves open on my behalf. I really recommend just ignoring the wax and going through it with your corkscrew. It may be a little messy, but it's safe. I do it every day.

It's hard for me to think of these convenience issues. From my point of view, it took ten years to bring this wine to you. Things happen really slow in winemaking, and that's a good thing.

I actually wrote a song on my CD (released later this year) about this issue called "If I Could Be The Wine." Invite me to a party and I'll play it for you.

These are the details. I think that at the end of the day, those that have tried these are more than willing to deal with it to enjoy the contents and I'm sure those that have ordered it for the first time to try will follow suit. When the only real thing we have to moan about is a capsule, that is a win!

Thank you for speaking about it so candidly and listening to the feedback. Fun day on the WW boards.

deecue wrote:huh, that's the first time i've ever seen tax on wine shipped here to NY.. is this something new to expect from now on?

We were always paying tax before, but it was built into the price. Now they have lowered the price slightly and charge separate tax so everyone only pays their due share instead of non tax or low tax states covering for the states that have higher tax rates.

winesmith wrote:I actually wrote a song on my CD (released later this year) about this issue called "If I Could Be The Wine." Invite me to a party and I'll play it for you.

You are hereby invited to the Minnesota Woot gathering on March 22.

In Minneapolis.

ddeuddeg wrote:Trust me: You've never tasted this "type of wine." You should.

enablers!!