neilfindswine wrote:Welcome! Glad you'll be enjoying this wine when you visit your daughter in May. Perhaps you could save a bottle for the next Ozzy concert??!!

Hmmm, I don't know about Ozzy, but we are going to see Eric Clapton in Berlin shortly after I get back. Maybe wine diapers will be up between now and then and I can bring a bottle back with me...

This will be the third time I have seen Clapton, once in Korea and once in Germany. At the concert in Korea the only time Clapton talked was when he said it was his first time playing Korea, then he paused briefly and said it was also probably the last time! Oh well, I enjoyed my 2 1/2 years there. Maybe he doesn't care for very spicy food.

cmaldoon wrote:While I am certainly not an expert in such things, I have had a reasonable share of aged cabs and have found that if one does a pop and pour on a middle aged cab 10-20 years one can get 1 of 3 sets of flavors:

1) Mmmmm: congrats, this one drinks well on a pop and pour, enjoy. It will probably taste even better in 30-60 min.

2) Meh: your wine has not opened yet, wasn't a good quality wine to begin with, or is flawed. Wait 30-60 min and try again. Your wine will likely have significantly more flavor. If after 2 hours it still isn't there, it's most likely an off bottle or an off wine.

3) Yech: your wine has reductive characteristics to it or is flawed. Wait 30-60 min and try again. Your wine will likely have come out of its ugly duckling shell and shown itself for the swan it is. If not in 1 hour, try 2. If not 2, leave it overnight. If it still tastes awful then it is certainly flawed. (The longest I have had was a Petite Sirah that took 2 hours. It was horrific upon opening and at 30 min. I almost poured it down the drain. After 2 hours it was a stunning wine)

Notice a theme? I suggest planning to open a bottle in this age range 30 or more min before serving and decanting it (at very least pour it into a clean pitcher then back into the bottle). Leaving it in an open but unpoured bottle does not allow enough gas transfer. I generally taste upon opening out of curiosity but then set it aside.

Anyway, not an expert, just sharing my novice experience.

Hey, quick question..when you say flawed are you saying flawed as in Brett or SO2 etc present? Or are you meaning that the wine for your tastes is now over the hill? I'm thinking that might be what you are hetting at. Not trying to nitpick, although I guess I am kind of, but there is a difference.

That said, your list of options makes sense.

Cheers!

sphervey wrote:The reason many of us don't post even after buying wine and tasting it is that we feel a bit intimidated by our lack of knowledge and ability to critique a wine in a "quality post" manner. I didn't realize people received free wine until a couple of weeks ago and it has cooled my hand in terms of purchasing until I do further research outside of the Woot forum. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and should not be verbally picked on because of it. I appreciate what you were saying and did not take offense at it. I feel the reviewers are giving honest assessments as well. Perhaps if the wine is given out there should be a symbol or notice like Amazon Vine has. Winery participation is always appreciated. Those of us that live in "the Boonies" don't have gatherings to go to and I do sometimes miss living in California. I would have replied in the World of Woot Wine but couldn't find the thread. Anyway, I just wanted you to know everyone isn't hostile. As another poster said, we'd all like to get in on a bottle now and then. I think I've bought enough bottles to merit a crack at it - are you listening, Wine David???????????? I promise full disclosure in the review!!!!

Check your PMs please

sphervey wrote:The reason many of us don't post even after buying wine and tasting it is that we feel a bit intimidated by our lack of knowledge and ability to critique a wine in a "quality post" manner. I didn't realize people received free wine until a couple of weeks ago and it has cooled my hand in terms of purchasing until I do further research outside of the Woot forum. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and should not be verbally picked on because of it. I appreciate what you were saying and did not take offense at it. I feel the reviewers are giving honest assessments as well. Perhaps if the wine is given out there should be a symbol or notice like Amazon Vine has. Winery participation is always appreciated. Those of us that live in "the Boonies" don't have gatherings to go to and I do sometimes miss living in California. I would have replied in the World of Woot Wine but couldn't find the thread. Anyway, I just wanted you to know everyone isn't hostile. As another poster said, we'd all like to get in on a bottle now and then. I think I've bought enough bottles to merit a crack at it - are you listening, Wine David???????????? I promise full disclosure in the review!!!!

Sorry for the hijack again, Chris.

Three things.

First, please don't be intimidated and not post. We all started somewhere and posting is how we learn. Post something that sounds uneducated or newbie-ish? We don't care. It's when you post something asinine that we care. Segue into two.

I'm going to defend myself and others who are accused of being hostile. When someone says, "I don't like this so I'm never purchasing again," it's not a great place to start a dialogue. Our responses were, in my not humble opinion, completely in line with the tone of the conversation's inception. Not to mention, people are starting fires without understanding that they are doing so, you included. Which brings me to the third.

WD is always listening to us. Are you listening to him? As he said in his post, he has nothing to do with any of us having bottles. Neither does wine.woot proper, Neil, WineDrew, or the president of Russia. The failure to understand this is problematic, both for you "buying" a bottle from the winery before it's offered to post a review and for the rest of the community (see end of note 2 on fires).

If anyone wants clarification, PM me. But only if you're actually going to read what I, and others (WD is probably a good person to listen to), are saying.

kaolis wrote:Hey, quick question..when you say flawed are you saying flawed as in Brett or SO2 etc present? Or are you meaning that the wine for your tastes is now over the hill? I'm thinking that might be what you are hetting at. Not trying to nitpick, although I guess I am kind of, but there is a difference.

That said, your list of options makes sense.

Cheers!

Didn't you get mad at me a couple weeks ago for asking/saying the exact same thing to you?

funbunny wrote:Thanks to both you and Chris for giving us some background on your wine and the vintage dilemma or lack there off.
Just for my own curiosity, do either you or Chris recall your suggested cellaring or ideal drinking window for the this wine when it was released? Where did you think this vintage was going to be in 10 to 15+ years despite the season's problems? I was wondering if it is fairing as well or better than you anticipated.

The 97 vs 98 growing conditions and the initial accolades and criticism makes me wonder if I need to make adjustments to my cellar for other vintages with some of the same scenarios, as the article you referenced pointed out for 2011 and 2012.

Great Ask - At the time of the release of the 1998 we didn't publish a specific time frame but we are generally conservative saying something like 10 - 15 years. In 2000 when this wine was released, many of our early 80s cabernets were ageing well and already at 15 years plus - and we were confident that those wines had another 7-10 years on them - but we would still have forecasted conservatively since as discussed individual tastes vary so much.

In 2008 I wrote up the following:

The wine offers a nose of black cherry, plum, and spicy current fruit that is enhanced by toasty vanillin oak aromatics, it is well balanced and finishes long with sweet fruit and medium tannins on the palate.

The beauty of patience/ageing! Classic 10 Year Old Jefferson Cuvee Cabernet. Think Fleetwood Mac’s song Tusk but played by the USC Marching Band – Soften the outright percussion of a 5 member Rock and Roll Band and add in all the instruments of a marching band – same song but different presentation. The ageing process softens the tannins and the vibrancy of the fruit but now you can taste (hear) all the nuances of flavors that Cabernet brings to bear in a wine. Taste for yourself!

In furthering the metaphor at 15 years – I’d say the marching band is a now a philharmonic orchestra – perhaps more varied instruments playing but less percussion and less ‘brass’ – a kinder gentler but no less interesting rendition of the song.

I would say it is fairing consistently with our expectations for this wine and consistent with our Library Cabernets as a whole. We shared a 1982 CORLEY RESERVE over the holidays – that wine is 30 years old and still going. Will the 1998 go another 15? Maybe or Maybe not but it will be fun to ‘follow’ its continued progress.

As to your other wines and your expectations, we find the best way to cellar wines is to have enough of each wine to taste along the way! And enjoy the last few bottles in a final celebration with friends and family.

Stephen

PS My apologies to all musicians or music lovers, including my brother Chris, for my metaphors - my musical talent is limited ‘to playing’ the radio!

edlada wrote:Hmmm, I don't know about Ozzy, but we are going to see Eric Clapton in Berlin shortly after I get back. Maybe wine diapers will be up between now and then and I can bring a bottle back with me...

This will be the third time I have seen Clapton, once in Korea and once in Germany. At the concert in Korea the only time Clapton talked was when he said it was his first time playing Korea, then he paused briefly and said it was also probably the last time! Oh well, I enjoyed my 2 1/2 years there. Maybe he doesn't care for very spicy food.

Thanks for trying the wines! I know you'll be pleased with them. As it relates to Ozzy, well I've seen him in concert several times, both on his own and with the original lineup Black Sabbath reunion. Last time I saw him, I was impressed with the energy but he wasn't hitting his notes quite the same as he used to. I think this wine is probably a little more along the lines of Eric Clapton, in that it started out in a good groove and keeps getting smoother with age.

Cheers,
Chris Corley

kaolis wrote:Hey, quick question..when you say flawed are you saying flawed as in Brett or SO2 etc present? Or are you meaning that the wine for your tastes is now over the hill? I'm thinking that might be what you are hetting at. Not trying to nitpick, although I guess I am kind of, but there is a difference.

That said, your list of options makes sense.

Cheers!

I think both of you are on the right track. Knowing the distinction between a true flaw and a characteristic not to your liking is key, and a fundamental part of understanding wine. It does take time to discern the two though.

For example, I won't return wine in a restaurant if it simply is not to my liking. That's the chance I take when trying a new wine, which I do all the time. I will however return a wine (or at least bring it to the servers attention)if I believe it to be flawed.

One of the great pleasures of wine is that we are all learning in perpetuity. Our family realized some time ago that there really is no finish line when it comes to learning about wine! Just enjoy the trip ...

Cheers,
Chris Corley

kylemittskus wrote:Didn't you get mad at me a couple weeks ago for asking/saying the exact same thing to you?

hmmm...trying to remember what wine offer prompted that exchange?..hell to get old(er)!

and speaking of older, never mad, just opinionated and ornery once in awhile.... O:-)

monticellovineyards wrote:
PS My apologies to all musicians or music lovers, including my brother Chris, for my metaphors - my musical talent is limited ‘to playing’ the radio!

Thank you Stephen for all the helpful insight to your wine and it's vintage. No apologies necessary on the musical metaphors, I live with a musician and have no musical talent what so ever. I had to laugh at your use of Fleetwood Mac's TUSK as an example. My husband worked for a number of years at a company by that name. Every year at the Christmas party, the DJ had to roll out that song at least once.

sphervey wrote:The reason many of us don't post even after buying wine and tasting it is that we feel a bit intimidated by our lack of knowledge and ability to critique a wine in a "quality post" manner. I didn't realize people received free wine until a couple of weeks ago and it has cooled my hand in terms of purchasing until I do further research outside of the Woot forum. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and should not be verbally picked on because of it. I appreciate what you were saying and did not take offense at it. I feel the reviewers are giving honest assessments as well. Perhaps if the wine is given out there should be a symbol or notice like Amazon Vine has. Winery participation is always appreciated. Those of us that live in "the Boonies" don't have gatherings to go to and I do sometimes miss living in California. I would have replied in the World of Woot Wine but couldn't find the thread. Anyway, I just wanted you to know everyone isn't hostile. As another poster said, we'd all like to get in on a bottle now and then. I think I've bought enough bottles to merit a crack at it - are you listening, Wine David???????????? I promise full disclosure in the review!!!!

Don't worry about not posting (about the wine that is)! You really learn by following along, and by tasting.

As well as needing a Gatherings Tab (so we can find those WW gatherings close or far), maybe we also need a "FAQ/FA" Info Tab with the following threads:

A Cat Died in My Mouth! (or) How To Develop The Professional Palate YOU Want! -- Handy tips on developing your wine palate.

Tasting Wine - The RPM Method

WINE TASTING for Newbies @ wine.woot -- Created by our own Mod, ThunderThighs


RPM’s Highly Idiosyncratic Annotated Wine Bibliography -- (Note that 2 of the 3 books in the Tasting and Appreciation (mostly formal tasting) section (Amerine/Roessler and Peynaud) were the books brought by RPM the first night of the 2012 Newbie Tour for them to look at.


All have been very helpful!



Edit: And sometimes, you have to travel to the Gatherings! (Buffalo, Denver, Chicago, NoCal, NoVA/DC, & Vegas) have all been fun to go to. I still want to go to Atlanta, Dallas (or TX), Seattle, and NYC gatherings.

I suppose Minnesota and Nebraska too.

kaolis wrote:Hey, quick question..when you say flawed are you saying flawed as in Brett or SO2 etc present? Or are you meaning that the wine for your tastes is now over the hill? I'm thinking that might be what you are hetting at. Not trying to nitpick, although I guess I am kind of, but there is a difference.

That said, your list of options makes sense.

Cheers!

By flawed, I was intending to denote corked or cooked, or oxidized or in some way not what the winemaker intended to have in the bottle.

There are of course as you noted, perfectly normal flavors that can be in high quality wine that are less enjoyable to some people ( Pinot Barnyard Funk for me)

monticellowinemaker wrote:I think both of you are on the right track. Knowing the distinction between a true flaw and a characteristic not to your liking is key, and a fundamental part of understanding wine. It does take time to discern the two though.

One of the great pleasures of wine is that we are all learning in perpetuity. Our family realized some time ago that there really is no finish line when it comes to learning about wine! Just enjoy the trip ...

Cheers,
Chris Corley

Well said, thank you

Chris,
Thanks for all the great participation. We love to hear from the winemakers and as you can tell, we love asking questions.
I'll apologize for helping to get parts of this discussion off-topic and thank you for your patience and continued presence through it all. I am a new fan of Monticello Vineyards for sure.
Also FWIW, I found the article on the 97 & 98 vintages truly enlightening. I have heard rpm say something similar regarding 72 and 73 (is that right?). I believe 72 was more heralded at the time, but the 73's stood the test of time and drank well into their 20's.
Someone correct me if I have the wrong years here....

kylemittskus wrote:[...] It's when you post something asinine that we care. Segue into two.

I did not attack anyone or call anyone's opinions asinine. Can you say the same thing?

kylemittskus wrote:I'm going to defend myself and others who are accused of being hostile. When someone says, "I don't like this so I'm never purchasing again," it's not a great place to start a dialogue.

Actually, what I originally said was that not disclosing how the reviewers are getting wine is a "poor practice" and that "I don't think I'll be buying any more wine here until woot changes that practice." Which is pretty different that what you seem to think I said (i.e. the word "never").

kylemittskus wrote: Our responses were, in my not humble opinion, completely in line with the tone of the conversation's inception. Not to mention, people are starting fires without understanding that they are doing so, you included. Which brings me to the third.

(1) Based on your paraphrasing, I think it's pretty clear you misunderstood the tone of my original post. (2) Sorry for not "understanding what I was doing", but this kind of was my point. I would like better transparency so people, including new users, can understand how these reviews are coming to be.

kylemittskus wrote:WD is always listening to us. Are you listening to him? As he said in his post, he has nothing to do with any of us having bottles. Neither does wine.woot proper, [...]

OK, if the reviewers are getting the bottles directly from the winery, that should be disclosed.

kylemittskus wrote:[...]
If anyone wants clarification, PM me. But only if you're actually going to read what I, and others (WD is probably a good person to listen to), are saying.

I read what you wrote in your PM. Are you reading what I'm writing here publicly? In order for me to respect a review, the origin of the reviewers' bottles should be disclosed, especially in a community driven forum.

shencken wrote:I read what you wrote in your PM. Are you reading what I'm writing here publicly? In order for me to respect a review, the origin of the reviewers' bottles should be disclosed, especially in a community driven forum.

So don't respect the reviews! No one is saying you should or need to. You obviously didn't read what I wrote in your PM or understand what WD said. And I thought you were going to start a different thread in WOW. Want me to start it for you? I don't think we need to take any more winery space.

MarkDaSpark wrote:Don't worry about not posting (about the wine that is)! You really learn by following along, and by tasting.

As well as needing a Gatherings Tab (so we can find those WW gatherings close or far), maybe we also need a "FAQ/FA" Info Tab with the following threads:

A Cat Died in My Mouth! (or) How To Develop The Professional Palate YOU Want! -- Handy tips on developing your wine palate.

Tasting Wine - The RPM Method

WINE TASTING for Newbies @ wine.woot -- Created by our own Mod, ThunderThighs


RPM’s Highly Idiosyncratic Annotated Wine Bibliography -- (Note that 2 of the 3 books in the Tasting and Appreciation (mostly formal tasting) section (Amerine/Roessler and Peynaud) were the books brought by RPM the first night of the 2012 Newbie Tour for them to look at.


All have been very helpful!



Edit: And sometimes, you have to travel to the Gatherings! (Buffalo, Denver, Chicago, NoCal, NoVA/DC, & Vegas) have all been fun to go to. I still want to go to Atlanta, Dallas (or TX), Seattle, and NYC gatherings.

I suppose Minnesota and Nebraska too.

Thanks, Mark! I have looked in my area but there is nothing. I appreciate the tips and I did look into buying a tasting kit and reviewed old threads on Woot about one they sold. Unfortunately, the really good ones are SO expensive. I just follow along and try to see if what I smell and taste matches up with the postings. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't but I have a giant wine cave in my closet now and we will enjoy wading through all of it and comparing our opinions with fellow Wooters.

sphervey wrote:Thanks, Mark! I have looked in my area but there is nothing. I appreciate the tips and I did look into buying a tasting kit and reviewed old threads on Woot about one they sold. Unfortunately, the really good ones are SO expensive. I just follow along and try to see if what I smell and taste matches up with the postings. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't but I have a giant wine cave in my closet now and we will enjoy wading through all of it and comparing our opinions with fellow Wooters.

Start an interest thread! You never know who may be close or willing to travel.

neilfindswine wrote:...you know Fleetwood Mac will always have a place in my playlist; The Rumours album is a classic. But I've never been able to wrap my head around "Tusk". If it ever comes on, I just push the 'next track' button (which is not a comment on this wine, to be clear!)

With u on both counts

kylemittskus wrote:I don't think we need to take any more winery space.

As you just did (eyes roll).
I for one appreciate the winery offering a sample bottle to our fellow WW'ers (senior or else wise.) Allowing rattage in this manner is a first rate method of gathering primary consumer input, and is in keeping with a long standing tradition here in the forum. We are all able to read between the lines and know there will exist a bias (who doesn't like a free glass of wine?), but the reviews I have read to date - there are many - unanimously strive to be fair, and often existential. I love hearing first hand experience, from pro to novice, it gives me a reference point to go to should I query on a nuance after a purchase. These are all good things.
But if a forum member wishes to question the veracity of the reviews due to the fact they are unsure where/or how the wine became compensated for the review, that is well within their right. There is hostility in this thread today, and to my view it is not warranted. WD issued a slight apology, but alluded to not continuing voluntary winery initiated lab-rattage. I hope that is not the outcome of all this.
Monticello Vineyards suggested that they welcome all input. In their participation they show confidence this wine sale will stand on it's own. I understand why, their input suggest this wine is of the quality we would expect of WW, and the early reports seem overall positive (irrespective of any existing bias).

MarkDaSpark wrote:
Edit: And sometimes, you have to travel to the Gatherings! (Buffalo, Denver, Chicago, NoCal, NoVA/DC, & Vegas) have all been fun to go to. I still want to go to Atlanta, Dallas (or TX), Seattle, and NYC gatherings.

I suppose Minnesota and Nebraska too.

Hmmm Ohio seems missing in your list.... To make clear any chance to see you April 19? Wooster is a quaint little village, that and well, SH will be there..., need I say more?
Chip I am on the maybe\probably list for now. Truly regretted missing last years dinner.

p2002 wrote:Hmmm Ohio seems missing in your list.... To make clear any chance to see you April 19? Wooster is a quaint little village, that and well, SH will be there..., need I say more?
Chip I am on the maybe\probably list for now. Truly regretted missing last years dinner.

I've put your name on the "maybe" list for the Scott & Jana Harvey Ohio Wine Dinner.

Hope you can make it!

chipgreen wrote:I've put your name on the "maybe" list for the Scott & Jana Harvey Ohio Wine Dinner.

Hope you can make it!

Awesome, thanks neighbor!

In for one.

I'm in for a set out of curiosity - based on a an aged Napa cab at this price.

I love the first hand wine reports - it's essential to the buying process in this type of sales format. Particularly when not too much information is available - for example in CT.

For me Wine.Woot is all about finding those unknown gems that aren't well written about. How else would we know what the unknown is like??

I really doubt the folk putting the reviews up are swayed by a bottle of wine (in comparison to the extent of their wine collection). I've seen them say none to positive things - if only sometimes gently disguised.

I also find it somewhat easy to tell by the lead in to the review.

Seriously - give them a break as they are doing us all a favor with their insight and time spent to write a meaningful review.

And as someone previously said - fingers crossed for another Ardente like find.

sphervey wrote:Thanks, Mark! I have looked in my area but there is nothing. I appreciate the tips and I did look into buying a tasting kit and reviewed old threads on Woot about one they sold. Unfortunately, the really good ones are SO expensive. I just follow along and try to see if what I smell and taste matches up with the postings. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't but I have a giant wine cave in my closet now and we will enjoy wading through all of it and comparing our opinions with fellow Wooters.

As kyle mentioned, start one if none are around. Or plan a vacation around one that needs help. Sometimes (SparkClaus comes to town) all a gathering needs is someone from out of town visiting (as some from Denver and elsewhere can testify - both me going there and them coming to SoCal).

D&D (PS) is always around this time of year, the RPM Tour will hopefully show up again next summer (2014), and there should be others.

p2002 wrote:Hmmm Ohio seems missing in your list.... To make clear any chance to see you April 19? Wooster is a quaint little village, that and well, SH will be there..., need I say more?
Chip I am on the maybe\probably list for now. Truly regretted missing last years dinner.

Sadly, family concerns limit how much travel there will be this year (especially since there's this bridezilla thing I need to see blow up in August).

Maybe next year in Wooster?

Damn it, with the winery participation as good as it is and my love for aged cabs I'm in.

Edlada, you didn't help either. I don't care for your politics but I believe you have a keen sense on wine. Good to have you back in the country even for just a visit.
Speed to first woot: 0m 22.229s
First sucker:MarkDaSpark
Last wooter to woot:ERMD
Last purchase:14 minutes ago
And sparky as first, mark do you ever drink your wine?

Tough crowd today. I had some comments on the new reviews myself recently wondering what was up. But it seems that whatever reviews are going on now are not much different than the old rattage..bottle of wine is delivered and a review is posted. Apparently a different path to the reviewer, I have no idea, but all in all a pretty similar end result. When rats went away, many were disappointed, now when reviews come back, the reaction seems worse. After reading all the posts today pretty sure there is just an honest attempt at getting some info out to the community.

Cheers!

kaolis wrote:Tough crowd today. I had some comments on the new reviews myself recently wondering what was up. But it seems that whatever reviews are going on now are not much different than the old rattage..bottle of wine is delivered and a review is posted. Apparently a different path to the reviewer, I have no idea, but all in all a pretty similar end result. When rats went away, many were disappointed, now when reviews come back, the reaction seems worse. After reading all the posts today pretty sure there is just an honest attempt at getting some info out to the community.

Cheers!

Amen!

Day 2 notes.

This held up nicely. Fruit is mostly gone but getting some secondary notes of cedar, leather, spice, I guess that adds up to cigar box :} I get a hint of the fruit it had on the nose but not palate. Still great body and acid, good with food again. None of that second day nastiness that sometimes happen to lower quality wines. This was really good to begin with and already aged so no reason to think it wouldn't be bad the next day.
All this leads me to believe it will have a decent further shelf life - properly stored. It will still be good but just different like it is now compared to before. Fruit changes and fades, tannins soften, aromas and flavors change as molecules and VOCs combine and form new ones. Wines like this with complex flavors, good tannins, acidity, oak, not to mention good winemaking, and proper cellaring are built to last. Will there be a peak? Sure. Peak of balanced fruit, acid, tannins integrated but not gone, and oak including its associated flavors. Not a glass of burnt wood flavored alcohol. Not a glass of brown acidic water (not vinegar).
I would say this is at or before peak but not having had this before I'm not sure.
Very enjoyable interesting solid wine. And it's already aged for you! Properly! You saved money by not keeping these around 15 years and since they are offered here at a good price we win.

Some people mentioned Ardente. I only tried the 97 so far but comparing the two is difficult even though they are close in age they are different vintages and mountain fruit vs valley fruit. Another thing is I feel Ardente is more old world style and Monticello leans into new world a little more.
That said I think the Ardente was more esoteric. It also tasted "older" with darker fruit and darker (browner) color and if I recall it had some herbal notes. It also had a ton of sediment. The Monticello is more straightforward and seems to have more life left in it.

Cesare wrote:Some people mentioned Ardente. I only tried the 97 so far but comparing the two is difficult even though they are close in age they are different vintages and mountain fruit vs valley fruit. Another thing is I feel Ardente is more old world style and Monticello leans into new world a little more.
That said I think the Ardente was more esoteric. It also tasted "older" with darker fruit and darker (browner) color and if I recall it had some herbal notes. It also had a ton of sediment. The Monticello is more straightforward and seems to have more life left in it.

I didn't need to hear this, in for a another woot.

rjquillin wrote:I didn't need to hear this, in for a another woot.

Money saving idea for WD - combine like orders

rjquillin wrote:Really appreciate Chris and the winery chiming in with additional info, to supplement the TN's we've had today.

I was a bit hesitant due to the vintage.
I like older cabs.
I'm really trying to enforce my SIWBM, as D&D is this weekend.
I've failed miserably.
Looking forward to the arrival of these.

If these are anything like the Ardente sets, I'm going to be quite *!$$'d I didn't get more.

+1 !!

I feel very happy after reading all the ups and downs of this daily wine.woot posts that my name is in bright lights with MarkDaSpark. Last Wooter to woot:

Speed to First Woot: 0m 22.229s
First Sucker:MarkDaSpark
Last Wooter to Woot:jimjacks66
Last Purchase:2 minutes ago

Absolute garbage. We opened two bottles. Both corks were falling apart. The wine was vinegar. Woot should be ashamed that they tried to pass this rot gut off as wine.

mikefeiman wrote:Absolute garbage. We opened two bottles. Both corks were falling apart. The wine was vinegar. Woot should be ashamed that they tried to pass this rot gut off as wine.

Contact support, you'll get your money back. The bottle I opened earlier was perfectly fine.