eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine

So why, specifically, can I no longer get shipments in Kansas? What new Kansas law exists, or new interpretation from the Kansas state governing bodies, that has recently changed my ability to woot?
Specifically. In Kansas.

klezman


quality posts: 130 Private Messages klezman

Nobody truly knows. The best bet is that the laws are written in the same way as the NY law and/or the local liquor control boards have interpreted the laws in the same way. Otherwise, best you can do is (re)read the thread and/or pester your elected officials.

2014: 57 bottles. Last wine.woot: 2011 Wellington Cab & Merlot, Roessler 2009 Bluejay, 2010 Bell Cabernet
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

NascarDad


quality posts: 21 Private Messages NascarDad
cjsiege wrote:Same situation in Virginia.



Sadly, as I see a Wellington Zin mock me, going unsold for last 13 minutes.. the list of states has really shrunk!

rld513


quality posts: 4 Private Messages rld513
baristaboss58 wrote:Very sad in OHIO!!!



Ditto. And during a Woot-off at that!

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
klezman wrote:Nobody truly knows. The best bet is that the laws are written in the same way as the NY law and/or the local liquor control boards have interpreted the laws in the same way. Otherwise, best you can do is (re)read the thread and/or pester your elected officials.



Ok, so this is why it's pointless to direct people to this thread when they're asking questions. There are no answers here. And it's not unreasonable to stoke the clamor to try and get a response from woot itself. Furthermore, what am I gonna say when I contact whatever state official?

"Uhhh, hi. I used to be able to buy wine online from this one website, but now I can't. The other websites are fine though, just this one. Something something New York."

Let's stop pretending that when people ask, "what's going on?", or act incredulous that this has been so drawn out with no statements or answers from woot, that there is a simple place they can go where they will find all of the answers to their questions. After this long, it is not unreasonable to request specific info regarding all of the other states besides NY, and a projected time frame so that I can have an idea of when this might possibly be resolved. Because I'm sure without any info the process for a lot of people will be something like: check woot often and get frustrated. Complain. Check woot, wonder if it'll ever come back. Ask question, no answer. Stop checking woot.

WilfBrim


quality posts: 18 Private Messages WilfBrim
eluofthenine wrote:Ok, so this is why it's pointless to direct people to this thread when they're asking questions. There are no answers here. And it's not unreasonable to stoke the clamor to try and get a response from woot itself. Furthermore, what am I gonna say when I contact whatever state official?

"Uhhh, hi. I used to be able to buy wine online from this one website, but now I can't. The other websites are fine though, just this one. Something something New York."

Let's stop pretending that when people ask, "what's going on?", or act incredulous that this has been so drawn out with no statements or answers from woot, that there is a simple place they can go where they will find all of the answers to their questions. After this long, it is not unreasonable to request specific info regarding all of the other states besides NY, and a projected time frame so that I can have an idea of when this might possibly be resolved. Because I'm sure without any info the process for a lot of people will be something like: check woot often and get frustrated. Complain. Check woot, wonder if it'll ever come back. Ask question, no answer. Stop checking woot.



I came by to make this same point. I live in Georgia. I don't live in New York. I was born there, but my family (wisely) left when I was 10, and I beat feet out of the Northeast as soon as I could. I have no interest in New York. I wouldn't live there on a bet.

So why did a ruling by a New York regulatory body (whose opinions have precisely zero legal authority on Georgia) create this problem in so many other states? This isn't even a state court ruling which sometimes has influence on other state courts (but sometimes doesn't, too). This was a bunch of state bureaucrats who, it should be noted, have a reputation for being exceedingly broad in their interpretations of their own regulatory reach (IAW, power hungry).

Please explain why this makes a difference.

klezman


quality posts: 130 Private Messages klezman

a) people get directed here because it is all the knowledge we have. Period.
b) WD wants to sell wine to your state. It's his livelihood. Be assured he's working on it.
c) If you were embroiled in a potential legal issue, would you go discussing and explaining it in an open forum on the internet? Would your lawyers tell you that was a good idea?

2014: 57 bottles. Last wine.woot: 2011 Wellington Cab & Merlot, Roessler 2009 Bluejay, 2010 Bell Cabernet
2013: 66 bottles, 2012: 91 bottles, 2011: 92 bottles, 2010: 74 bottles, 2009: 30 bottles, 2008: 3 bottles My CT

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
klezman wrote:a) people get directed here because it is all the knowledge we have. Period.
b) WD wants to sell wine to your state. It's his livelihood. Be assured he's working on it.
c) If you were embroiled in a potential legal issue, would you go discussing and explaining it in an open forum on the internet? Would your lawyers tell you that was a good idea?



1. That's fine, but let's not pretend that it's a wealth of knowledge. There is literally NOTHING here but info on NY and speculation. Sorry, I have higher expectations when I search for answers.

2. I think WD seems like a nice guy when he posts, and the website was great for a long time to presumably his credit. But I don't know the guy and I don't think a lot of the "WD is working hard on this guys!!!" fan boys do either. So sorry if I don't put automatic faith in the efforts of the exulted WD. It's really irrelevant to me how hard some anonymous David guy is working on the issue when I have no idea why there is an issue (specifically for my state) and have no conception of a time frame for resolution. Indefinitely? Just say so.

3. ARE they embroiled in some sort of legal proceedings? That would add some credibility to this unfortunate situation. It seems like someone made a CYA policy for like 20 states based on some bs proceedings taking place in ONE state. Those two options are entirely different for people's understanding of the situation. Does woot need to come out and give us all the details if they are in fact involved in legal proceedings? Absolutely not. Do they need to do a better job of helping people understand the situation? Yes.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus

I'm just going to address #2: this is how WD makes money. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that he doesn't care at all about any of us or this community (completely and 100% false) or wether we drink swill or Burgundy. Why wouldn't he work to regain a substantial portion of his customer base back? You think he, and his staff, are ok with losing a bunch of customers, and therefore, a bunch of money? Be pissed; you should be. But stay logical at the same time.

Also, if I may soapbox very briefly. There seems to be a lot of acerbic posts directed at some wooters who, on their own time and for no other reason than to help, have created and updated this thread with everything that they know. Those of you complaining about what they have done: do something yourself then! Call your reps, do some of your own research, or shut up. Don't get pissy because this thread doesn't provide you the exact answer you want.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine

I don't care if he cares or not. People want piece of mind, and results. Yea, this site is great because of him and a bunch of other hard workers. Great.

And yea, the thread is a nice effort. Thanks for Mark for taking a small amount of his personal time to post up info (on NY). But no thanks is given to those who speculate on the other states and minimize the necessity for more information.

Edit:

kylemittskus wrote: or shut up. Don't get pissy because this thread doesn't provide you the exact answer you want.



So my options are to shut up, or to use this thread to satiate my need for exact answers? That's the disconnect here. I'm talking about a statement from somebody at woot. Direct answers. For such a dedicated consumer base I believe they should try damned hard to communicate to us why we can't participate (pay them). Stop defending this thread, and stop acting like it isn't a big deal that after all of this time nothing has been said besides, "we're working on it." You're creating a justification for the lack of information. I'm guessing that you are not affected by the shipping situation?

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
eluofthenine wrote:I don't care if he cares or not. People want piece of mind, and results. Yea, this site is great because of him and a bunch of other hard workers. Great.

And yea, the thread is a nice effort. Thanks for Mark for taking a small amount of his personal time to post up info (on NY). But no thanks is given to those who speculate on the other states and minimize the necessity for more information.



Your dismissing this site and it's "great"ness while complaining that you can't properly use it anymore.

And did you post anything helpful? Have you postulated any guesses about what's happening based on the research that you've done? If you don't like the info, don't read it. But being sarcastic towards those who are trying and about their work is childish and really quite rude. You want to know about KS? Then call your representative. I guarantee that WD/wine.woot/Amazon didn't decide to cut their customer base on a whim. Figure your own sh*t out if you don't like the answers others are trying to provide.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier

In the absence of specific information all we have is speculation and logical inference. What happened with NY post Aug 12 is fairly apparent. However, as of Sept 9 some 15+ states were removed from the shipping list. There has been no explanation of this policy nor any reporting in the media that would help one better understand. We are left to speculate this is a move taken in an abundance of caution. Bad news with no clear explanation or timeline for resolution must be very frustrating.

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
kylemittskus wrote:

And did you post anything helpful? Have you postulated any guesses about what's happening based on the r You want to know about KS? Then call your representative.



LOL, I'm not here for guesswork. That's what I don't want. What I and others want is factual information specifically oriented towards states besides NY. Glad you can be satisfied with guesswork, but I can't. So that is why I'm not going to look any harder for clues or search the KS wine import laws or any of that other crap. Because it's just going to be guesswork. And people want answers. And I think that the company can do a better job of getting us those. And that is my point.

Are you even affected by the new shipping restrictions? If not, then why are you even here having this argument?

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
eluofthenine wrote:Ok, so this is why it's pointless to direct people to this thread when they're asking questions. There are no answers here. And it's not unreasonable to stoke the clamor to try and get a response from woot itself. Furthermore, what am I gonna say when I contact whatever state official?

"Uhhh, hi. I used to be able to buy wine online from this one website, but now I can't. The other websites are fine though, just this one. Something something New York."

Let's stop pretending that when people ask, "what's going on?", or act incredulous that this has been so drawn out with no statements or answers from woot, that there is a simple place they can go where they will find all of the answers to their questions. After this long, it is not unreasonable to request specific info regarding all of the other states besides NY, and a projected time frame so that I can have an idea of when this might possibly be resolved. Because I'm sure without any info the process for a lot of people will be something like: check woot often and get frustrated. Complain. Check woot, wonder if it'll ever come back. Ask question, no answer. Stop checking woot.



I'm not going to respond to the other posts for the sake of my blood pressure, but as for directing people here, the answer is simply.

Every post is people whining like little cake is a liees asking why the wine can't ship to their state when they could order the wine last month, blah, blah, blah. They are being directed here because, ignoring all of the NY stuff, and other unknown stuff, this thread references WD's posts where is explicitly stated a number of states have been temporarily removed the ship-to list as they are working through some issues, PERIOD.

If people want to read the rest of thread containing other people's opinions and theories as to why this is being done, great, but regardless, the answer to their question "why did my state disappear from the list" is right here in this thread.

The reasoning behind all of this is only speculation, so yes, they can be mad that WD has not yet clarified that. For the people that read these forums on a daily basis, it is annoying as I like turtles! to have 12 lazy overly attached girlfriends every day asking the same question when the answer to their question is posted EVERYWHERE.

Does the lack of clarification from Woot on this subject suck? Absolutely. Does it surprise me that no information has been released yet? Not in the least bit. Amazon/Woot has millions of shareholders who are at stake in whatever the issue is here it. No way in hell are they going to be posting any information in a public forum until the issue is resolved, whether it is a good resolution or a bad resolution. If you can't understand that and still want to throw a fit, no one is forcing you stay around here. As you said there are plenty of places to buy wine, unfortunately the business model that made WW successful is likely what is causing the problem now. They don't operate the same way as all of the other online wine sites, so don't be surprised when they can't do the same things.

For me, this is a godsend. I don't need wine right now and I am saving a lot of money. The only downfall is all of the overly attached girlfriends coming out of the woodworks on a daily basis who are too lazy to look for any answers to their questions and expect everything to be spoonfed to them.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
eluofthenine wrote:LOL, I'm not here for guesswork. That's what I don't want. What I and others want is factual information specifically oriented towards states besides NY. Glad you can be satisfied with guesswork, but I can't. So that is why I'm not going to look any harder for clues or search the KS wine import laws or any of that other crap. Because it's just going to be guesswork. And people want answers. And I think that the company can do a better job of getting us those. And that is my point.

Are you even affected by the new shipping restrictions? If not, then why are you even here having this argument?



He is here because he is trying to helpful rather than stand-offish and argumentative.

The company COULD do a better job of getting information to people, but they don't have to. They do not owe us anything. We are not under contract. We customers and can come and go as we please. If you don't like the way you are being treated, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:I'm not going to respond to the other posts for the sake of my blood pressure, but as for directing people here, the answer is simply.

Every post is people whining like little cake is a liees asking why the wine can't ship to their state when they could order the wine last month, blah, blah, blah. They are being directed here because, ignoring all of the NY stuff, and other unknown stuff, this thread references WD's posts where is explicitly stated a number of states have been temporarily removed the ship-to list as they are working through some issues, PERIOD.

If people want to read the rest of thread containing other people's opinions and theories as to why this is being done, great, but regardless, the answer to their question "why did my state disappear from the list" is right here in this thread.

The reasoning behind all of this is only speculation, so yes, they can be mad that WD has not yet clarified that. For the people that read these forums on a daily basis, it is annoying as I like turtles! to have 12 lazy overly attached girlfriends every day asking the same question when the answer to their question is posted EVERYWHERE.

Does the lack of clarification from Woot on this subject suck? Absolutely. Does it surprise me that no information has been released yet? Not in the least bit. Amazon/Woot has millions of shareholders who are at stake in whatever the issue is here it. No way in hell are they going to be posting any information in a public forum until the issue is resolved, whether it is a good resolution or a bad resolution. If you can't understand that and still want to throw a fit, no one is forcing you stay around here. As you said there are plenty of places to buy wine, unfortunately the business model that made WW successful is likely what is causing the problem now. They don't operate the same way as all of the other online wine sites, so don't be surprised when they can't do the same things.

For me, this is a godsend. I don't need wine right now and I am saving a lot of money. The only downfall is all of the overly attached girlfriends coming out of the woodworks on a daily basis who are too lazy to look for any answers to their questions and expect everything to be spoonfed to them.





Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine

There are two thought processes, I think. One who is unaffected by the change, or doesn't care. The other is affected and cares. I personally, don't think it's a bad thing for the dissatisfaction to be presented prolifically and frequently. It might bother those who don't care, but for those who do it's the only solution.

Your point about being spoon fed info is garbage. There is no info to be found. No fact out there says, "_____ happened so no wine.woot can no longer ship to a host of states." Inference is not acceptable. Information can only come from the source. I understand that a large company would seek to prevent vulnerability from liability, but I don't think that presenting more info is exclusive to that.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
dlschier wrote:In the absence of specific information all we have is speculation and logical inference. What happened with NY post Aug 12 is fairly apparent. However, as of Sept 9 some 15+ states were removed from the shipping list. There has been no explanation of this policy nor any reporting in the media that would help one better understand. We are left to speculate this is a move taken in an abundance of caution. Bad news with no clear explanation or timeline for resolution must be very frustrating.



I believe someone posted a logical speculation, i.e., that those states have a similar law/policy for their licensing authority to the NY ones. And until the NYSLA gets resolved, they will probably remain off the list.

I would also speculate that WD isn't behind this, but rather that the mothership is being conservative. Especially since if there is any penalties, they like to go after the ones with big pockets.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
MarkDaSpark wrote:
but rather that the mothership is being conservative. Especially since if there is any penalties, they like to go after the ones with big pockets.



Do you think it's a legal liability for them to just come out and say this?

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
eluofthenine wrote:There are two thought processes, I think. One whom is unaffected by the change, or doesn't care. The other is affected and cares. I personally, don't think it's a bad thing for the dissatisfaction to be presented prolifically and frequently. It might bother those who don't care, but for those who do it's the only solution.

Your point about being spoon fed info is garbage. There is no info to be found. No fact out there says, "_____ happened so no wine.woot can no longer ship to a host of states." Inference is not acceptable. Information can only come from the source. I understand that a large company would seek to prevent vulnerability from liability, but I don't think that presenting more info is exclusive to that.



Um, really? Only those two? When obviously there is the "Unaffected, but still cares" group. Which is a lot of us posting about this?


Do what some have done ... find someone in another state that still is on the list and wootleg via them.

Or rent a wine locker that accepts shipments and will put them in your wine locker. I believe there's a few that will do that for you. Sukieasa does that with a locker he shares here in CA. He flies in every so often to go thru them.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
eluofthenine wrote:Do you think it's a legal liability for them to just come out and say this?



In this day and age? When you have juries rewarding badger badger badgers for being badger badger badgers?

And badger badger badgeric Zero Tolerance policies everywhere (or so it seems)?

People sue at the drop of a hat, so of course companies want to protect themselves as best they can.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

rjquillin


quality posts: 189 Private Messages rjquillin
eluofthenine wrote:Are you even affected by the new shipping restrictions? If not, then why are you even here having this argument?

Likely the same reason Mark, Klez, Kyle and others also post here. We are all in CA, so we're not affected and could take the stance we don't give a rat's patootie about the other states, excepting for friends we've made that live in affected states, but that would be patently false, we post hopefully to add what we know for those that seem to know less.

It's in all our best interest to keep this venue healthy, but it is rather nice having less competition for prime offerings.

If you're not at least willing to contact your state and federal elected representatives, quit your cake is a lieing. Have you recently contacted any of them, for any reason?

Existing in limbo clearly is causing frustration for those that can't purchase. I've talked with WD recently at the wootception, and Neil. They're frustrated too, about this state issue. It's been said before, this is their livelihood; how would you like to take a ~40% (arbitrary number) hit in your wages and not really be able to do anything about it?

Would additional information change anything, would you then be able to purchase the offers you're now unable to? No. No change at all. However would some informed updates be appreciated? Absolutely.

Now, as one that has taken an employment hit from 100% to 43%, I'm going to see if I can find some additional work to support the wine I can purchase...



CT

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
MarkDaSpark wrote:In this day and age? When you have juries rewarding badger badger badgers for being badger badger badgers?

And badger badger badgeric Zero Tolerance policies everywhere (or so it seems)?

People sue at the drop of a hat, so of course companies want to protect themselves as best they can.



I don't want to believe that we live in a world where simply stating you don't want to get sued will get you sued. I guess I could see it, but it's pathetic.

I just wanted to present a skeptical viewpoint that I believe many posters and casual wooters out there share. I felt that the replies are too frequently optimistic and acquiescant up to this point. I think I've said enough, and personally I agree with you on at least one point: it's a great time to save your money!

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
eluofthenine wrote:I don't want to believe that we live in a world where simply stating you don't want to get sued will get you sued. I guess I could see it, but it's pathetic.

I just wanted to present a skeptical viewpoint that I believe many posters and casual wooters out there share. I felt that the replies are too frequently optimistic and acquiescant up to this point. I think I've said enough, and personally I agree with you on at least one point: it's a great time to save your money!



Skeptical is fine, but it seemed more of a whiny badger badger badger point of view at times.

And most of the points have been to contact your legislators about fixing the 3rd Party Marketing laws.

The NYSLA was basically saying that a winery had to have complete control over the entire process and shipments. The states removed probably have the same law.

An argument can be made that since WW packs up the wine to ship to us, it isn't under the "full control" of the winery. A stupid point, but let's face it, our politicians aren't playing with full decks most of the time.

So changes need to be made (or different interpretations) to those laws to allow WW to ship to your state. It's that simple.


Edit: I really wanted to see the badger thing again. So forgive me for leaving that part in.

Also:

Wine Library is a retail outlet not associated with wineries. Without a presence in NY, so they feel they can continue shipping without any consequences.

WTSO may work with the wineries, but since they don't have a physical presence in NY, they may feel the same way.

However, since WW is a subsidiary of Amazon, which probably has a presence in NY (and other states), they have to be more careful.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

noslensj


quality posts: 47 Private Messages noslensj
MarkDaSpark wrote:
WTSO may work with the wineries, but since they don't have a physical presence in NY, they may feel the same way.



I've understood that WTSO actually owns the juice it offers. If so it would be a retailer and thus not affected by NYSLA opinion.

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier

Sorry to change the subject a bit but I am kinda new here and was wondering if a three day woot off is a common occurrence or if this is a means of dealing with the (temporary??) loss of customer base. Ironically, it seems to be exacerbating the situation.

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
dlschier wrote:Sorry to change the subject a bit but I am kinda new here and was wondering if a three day woot off is a common occurrence or if this is a means of dealing with the (temporary??) loss of customer base. Ironically, it seems to be acerbating the situation.



Not uncommon, but it has been a little while since they had a 3 day one. The 3-day woot-off would have nothing to do the current wine.woot shipping issue, as this is really a very small segment of the overall woot family and the woot-off is ongoing for all of the sites.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
noslensj wrote:I've understood that WTSO actually owns the juice it offers. If so it would be a retailer and thus not affected by NYSLA opinion.



Actually, they would be in the same boat as Wine Library, who got a Cease & Desist order from the NYSLA. And thus would be affected by the opinion (which dealt with more than just 3rd Party Marketeers).


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:Not uncommon, but it has been a little while since they had a 3 day one. The 3-day woot-off would have nothing to do the current wine.woot shipping issue, as this is really a very small segment of the overall woot family and the woot-off is ongoing for all of the sites.



Actually, the 3-day WO have been the standard for most of this year, and probably last year as well. It used to only be a 1-day WO, then went to 2-day ones. Then the "Troubles" (2nd Website redesign) began, and so did the 3-day WO's.

IIRC, sometimes WW has only been 2 days while the main site goes 3 days.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
MarkDaSpark wrote:Actually, the 3-day WO have been the standard for most of this year, and probably last year as well. It used to only be a 1-day WO, then went to 2-day ones. Then the "Troubles" (2nd Website redesign) began, and so did the 3-day WO's.

IIRC, sometimes WW has only been 2 days while the main site goes 3 days.



You don't recall correctly. June, July and August woot-offs, all two days. Probably the same going much farther back, but I didn't feel like checking.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
dlschier wrote:Sorry to change the subject a bit but I am kinda new here and was wondering if a three day woot off is a common occurrence or if this is a means of dealing with the (temporary??) loss of customer base. Ironically, it seems to be exacerbating the situation.



I checked my facts and it does look like 2 day is the norm. This is the first wine Woot Off since the Sept 9 shipping shrink. Seems to be fanning the flames of crabbiness all around.

kylemittskus


quality posts: 233 Private Messages kylemittskus
MarkDaSpark wrote:Skeptical is fine, but it seemed more of a whiny badger badger badger point of view at times.

And most of the points have been to contact your legislators about fixing the 3rd Party Marketing laws.

The NYSLA was basically saying that a winery had to have complete control over the entire process and shipments. The states removed probably have the same law.

An argument can be made that since WW packs up the wine to ship to us, it isn't under the "full control" of the winery. A stupid point, but let's face it, our politicians aren't playing with full decks most of the time.

So changes need to be made (or different interpretations) to those laws to allow WW to ship to your state. It's that simple.


Edit: I really wanted to see the badger thing again. So forgive me for leaving that part in.

Also:

Wine Library is a retail outlet not associated with wineries. Without a presence in NY, so they feel they can continue shipping without any consequences.

WTSO may work with the wineries, but since they don't have a physical presence in NY, they may feel the same way.

However, since WW is a subsidiary of Amazon, which probably has a presence in NY (and other states), they have to be more careful.



All of this.

Complain about the issue, be upset that things changed and we don't know why. However, posting about this thread in particular which exists solely as a place to try to help sure as hell isn't helping and it pisses me off that you're denegrating the efforts of others.

I'm in CA so it doesn't affect me but I do care. Where does that fit into your "two thought processes"?

I hope you've called your reps instead of just complaining about others' attempts to help.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

eluofthenine


quality posts: 8 Private Messages eluofthenine
kylemittskus wrote:All of this.

Complain about the issue, be upset that things changed and we don't know why. However, posting about this thread in particular which exists solely as a place to try to help sure as hell isn't helping and it pisses me off that you're denegrating the efforts of others.

I'm in CA so it doesn't affect me but I do care. Where does that fit into your "two thought processes"?

I hope you've called your reps instead of just complaining about others' attempts to help.



I believe that given an indefinite amount of time (which seems equivalent to the amount of time that this shipping issue will be in effect according to the communication, or lack thereof from woot), that badgering and complaining out in the open will yield better results than speculating and guessing based on a limited amount of information from one state. I don't really think that this thread is all that helpful to those of us in the affected states as of 9/15, and I'm sorry if that hurts some of your feelings. I do agree that this thread contains all of the information that is available at this time, both a small statement from WD and the NY info. I don't think that there is any merit in exploring the intricacies of state to state laws on third party alcohol sales and further convoluting the matter with speculation. I also don't feel that it will be useful of my time or in any way effective to randomly call some state representative and complain that my wine hobby is being affected and then trying to relate some speculative assertion involving the state of New York. The day I call someone involved in state policy to complain about wine.woot is the day that wine.woot tells me what's going on and how I can help. You and your assertions of what is right and how to react are utterly meaningless to me.

And to be honest, that's all I think is necessary is to tell us exactly what is going on. The argument that uses litigation as an excuse to keep us in the dark has one fallacy. Assuming that there is legal counsel being given, wouldn't they (the legal team) be able to craft a statement able to be posted to the public with no negative legal implications?

So let's not go there anymore. It's not that hard to say, "hey guys, here's what's going on. here's what you can expect, and here's how you can help."


kylemittskus wrote:I'm in CA so it doesn't affect me but I do care. Where does that fit into your "two thought processes"?



eluofthenine wrote: One who is unaffected by the change, OR doesn't care. The other is affected and cares.



I think that ultimately, my point was that if you weren't arbitrarily shut out from shipping, you don't share the same frustrations that some of us do.

I apologize if the "badgering" is annoying, but I believe that keeping the effect visible as often as possible is a good strategy for information and possibly change given a long enough period of time. And truly, I think I've made maybe 2-3 posts in the normal threads since 9/15 regarding shipping, and none of them soap-boxy or long winded. I chose to come in here and display another point of view because I thought a lot of the ideas I had are shared by many, and lacking in this conversation. People like to link to this thread as if it has all of the answers, and it certainly doesn't. I just wanted to express that. At length apparently.

North316


quality posts: 107 Private Messages North316
eluofthenine wrote:I think that ultimately, my point was that if you weren't arbitrarily shut out from shipping, you don't share the same frustrations that some of us do.

I apologize if the "badgering" is annoying, but I believe that keeping the effect visible as often as possible is a good strategy for information and possibly change given a long enough period of time. And truly, I think I've made maybe 2-3 posts in the normal threads since 9/15 regarding shipping, and none of them soap-boxy or long winded. I chose to come in here and display another point of view because I thought a lot of the ideas I had are shared by many, and lacking in this conversation. People like to link to this thread as if it has all of the answers, and it certainly doesn't. I just wanted to express that. At length apparently.



WD doesn't need anything other than the huge loss of sales/business to keep the effect visible. Badgering is just that, and it's childish IMHO.

My CT
"Trust your homies on the net", Clark Smith.
R.I.P. Inkycatz - Feb. 2013

random122


quality posts: 6 Private Messages random122
eluofthenine wrote:People like to link to this thread as if it has all of the answers



It may not have ALL of the answers, but it has enough for one to make a logical connection. I don't understand the need to have someone "official" come out and tell you what's staring you right in the face. Even if you don't want to speculate, there are things you already know. Current state: wine.woot is not shipping to a lot of states. What you can expect in the future: wine.woot will continue not shipping to those states until their internal issue/s have been resolved, and WD is "working on it."

Is it really that hard to accept the fact that they're trying to fix whatever this problem is?

chipgreen


quality posts: 207 Private Messages chipgreen

As someone who is affected, I care a lot and I agree that the lack of updates and continued inability to purchase is frustrating but I also have complete confidence that WD will restore as many states as possible, as quickly as possible.

This situation is a lot worse for him and his business than it is for any of us. Also, I have met David personally, as have many of the people posting in this thread. He's not anonymous or exalted, he's just a straight-shooter trying to do the right thing.

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark
North316 wrote:You don't recall correctly. June, July and August woot-offs, all two days. Probably the same going much farther back, but I didn't feel like checking.



Technically, I am correct. Pacific & Mountain time zones Woot-Offs begin on Tuesdays (10 & 11 PM), and end on Thursdays. Tuesday, Wednesday, & Thursday count 3 days. Although East Coast are about the same as us ... start at 1 AM Wednesday and end at 1 AM Friday.

It just seems like 3 full days!

Sorry, I forget they start at 12 midnight Central Time, since they start at 10 PM on Tuesdays out here.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

WilfBrim


quality posts: 18 Private Messages WilfBrim

Well, it would appear that no information is forthcoming. I'm out. No point in looking at wines that I can't buy. Somebody let me know if the situation changes.

dlschier


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dlschier
MarkDaSpark wrote:Technically, I am correct. Pacific & Mountain time zones Woot-Offs begin on Tuesdays (10 & 11 PM), and end on Thursdays. Tuesday, Wednesday, & Thursday count 3 days. Although East Coast are about the same as us ... start at 1 AM Wednesday and end at 1 AM Friday.

It just seems like 3 full days!

Sorry, I forget they start at 12 midnight Central Time, since they start at 10 PM on Tuesdays out here.



Master spin artist eh?

andreaserben


quality posts: 21 Private Messages andreaserben
eluofthenine wrote:1. That's fine, but let's not pretend that it's a wealth of knowledge. There is literally NOTHING here but info on NY and speculation. Sorry, I have higher expectations when I search for answers.

2. I think WD seems like a nice guy when he posts, and the website was great for a long time to presumably his credit. But I don't know the guy and I don't think a lot of the "WD is working hard on this guys!!!" fan boys do either. So sorry if I don't put automatic faith in the efforts of the exulted WD. It's really irrelevant to me how hard some anonymous David guy is working on the issue when I have no idea why there is an issue (specifically for my state) and have no conception of a time frame for resolution. Indefinitely? Just say so.

3. ARE they embroiled in some sort of legal proceedings? That would add some credibility to this unfortunate situation. It seems like someone made a CYA policy for like 20 states based on some bs proceedings taking place in ONE state. Those two options are entirely different for people's understanding of the situation. Does woot need to come out and give us all the details if they are in fact involved in legal proceedings? Absolutely not. Do they need to do a better job of helping people understand the situation? Yes.



I am not happy with the situation myself.
I can attest that WD is a nice guy. I went out of my way and paid them a visit when I was in the area. It was nice to put a face to the name.
They are passionate about wine, passionate about getting wine to people, passionate about small winemakers and getting the words out, passionate about new business models. and yes, also of course they like to make money.
So they will want to ship to as many places as they possibly can without getting into legal troubles.
I do not comprehend the current situation since I have not heard anything regarding some of the states changing anything.
That said - in parallel to this, we see a tighter integration into Amazon now... and Amazon e.g. booted all affiliates in some states so they do not need to pay sales tax. My uninformed guess (really just a guess) that this is more Amazon policy related and they are trying to figure out how to fit this in the Amazon business model and legal construct of Amazon.
Does Amazon charge sales tax in Texas btw?
... since woot is there.