kylemittskus wrote:I'd prefer chemistry numbers on the bottle about 7,430 times mroe than the stupid, winery/marketing blurb on the back label.

Agree. Or even more illuminating would be the ingredients, which you see on some trailblazing bottles.

We still have some unanswered questions so hopefully the winemaker comes on board. To summarize, they are:

pH?
TA?
Brix at harvest?
Were these grapes always intended for rose' or is the juice left-over to increase the reds' concentration?
Reason for the price difference between the two vintages? (I assume this is to clear out the previous vintage.)
Where the hell is Jimmy Hoffa?!

Ok, I like stats (PH, Brix, etc) though not sure what to make of them exactly. Have a good idea and am learning BUT I also know what characteristics I enjoy in a wine and usually find out what I like by comparing a wine to others I have had. So, my questions are:

1. has anyone had this offering?
2. If yes, any other Roses you can compare to?
3. Is it a CA style fruit forward Rose with some fizz OR bone dry like your typical French Rose? Or in between?

losthighwayz wrote:Ok, I like stats (PH, Brix, etc) though not sure what to make of them exactly. Have a good idea and am learning BUT I also know what characteristics I enjoy in a wine and usually find out what I like by comparing a wine to others I have had. So, my questions are:

1. has anyone had this offering?
2. If yes, any other Roses you can compare to?
3. Is it a CA style fruit forward Rose with some fizz OR bone dry like your typical French Rose? Or in between?

1. no
2. no
3. fruit does not equate to dryness. it is already stated that this has no residual sugar, so bone dry it is. and without RS, doubtful any fizz.

kaolis wrote:3. fruit does not equate to dryness. it is already stated that this has no residual sugar, so bone dry it is. and without RS, doubtful any fizz.

This is totally true. However, sometimes, a completely dry wine (chemically) can come off as a bit sweet due to the presence of fruit.

kylemittskus wrote:This is totally true. However, sometimes, a completely dry wine (chemically) can come off as a bit sweet due to the presence of fruit.

...some people, many in fact, confuse fruitiness with sweetness.

kaolis wrote:...some people, many in fact, confuse fruitiness with sweetness.

True.

kaolis wrote:...some people, many in fact, confuse fruitiness with sweetness.

including my mother-in-law... ha!

StarM wrote:Thank you for your input, and more importantly, your wines. We've enjoyed several of your Cabernet Sauvignons and Merlots over the years, but haven't made it out to taste your Reserve Merlot and other smaller production wines -- didn't know you all make a Merlot Rosè. Definitely will visit next trip to Napa.

Cheers!

Pleased that you have enjoyed our wines. Hope you will enjoy this one as well.
Jt

klezman wrote:Hi John,
Thank you for the transparency. You've been here before, so you probably know that this group is very knowledgeable and wants to know all the nitty gritty details. My question about brix at harvest was partially to get at the ripeness/flavour profile, but also to get at the question of whether this is a rose grown and raised, or the leftovers from red wine production. One isn't clearly superior to the other, but you do tend to get different flavour and acidity profiles. I know the offer page says it had short skin contact time, partial ML and barrel age, etc, but that's not enough information to answer the question I ask. Your first answer indicated that this was a rose from ground to bottle, while your second answer said is was a saignee, which iirc is often used to concentrate red wine and increase extraction by increasing the skin:juice ratio. Any more specific information on the winemaking techniques for this rose would be greatly appreciated. It's also harder for white and rose since the techniques used are more variable than for most red wines. So we ask more questions

Thank you for your comments. Apologies if my answers seemed inconsistent.

This wine is made from our merlot and Cabernet Franc grapes that we use in the production of core wine, Rutherford Hill merlot. We purposefully wanted to craft a rose from these grapes, so I guess you could call it a hybrid method - We purposefully wanted to use these grapes for our rosé because they are flavorful,and come from some fantastic vineyards. So...while the method used was saignee (bleeding off some juice after contact) the purpose was not really saignee (to intensify the flavor of the remaining juice). The resulting impact on the remaining merlot is positive, yet minimal given the quantities bled off relative to the total amount produced.

Flavor characteristics: this wine is full bodied given the fact that it is rose. Our model was chapoutier's Tavel rose rom the rhone - which is glorious and interesting.

Jt

Winedavid39 wrote:John, thanks very much for hanging out.

John is HIGHLY respected in this business. a real treat to have him join us.

Thank you for the kind words. I don't really qualify for the "highly respected" moniker just yet, but the compliment is appreciated none-the-less. I am fortunate to have been introduced to the wine industry by my father, and while we have spent a lifetime in the biz, we all still have a lot to learn. We'll give the "highly respected" kudos to my father. He has been at it the longest. Fair?

trifecta wrote:If we only compare case prices it is missing the point. We have a chance to try something with a 4 pack, with cheap shipping.

Not sure I have had a merlot rose before.... wonder if this would be a good palate cleanse during the Vintage Merlot night coming up. Hmm...

Should work. A sweet version might throw off some of ten great merlot's available in the market. This version, because it is dry could work. You might also try some bubbles as a cleanse. I enjoy that too!

kaolis wrote:...some people, many in fact, confuse fruitiness with sweetness.

I believe I've read, in one of rpm's suggested books, the presence of alcohol may also be perceived/confused as or enhance apparent sweetness.

Did I just miss the promised numbers?

..and there is always the Terlato lunch/dining room..still intact?

klezman wrote:I had a 10 year old Pinot Rose a couple years ago that was drinking beautifully. Very fresh, but with some secondary notes. So yeah, while rose can go almost directly from fermenter to bottle to gullet it can also hang out a while in between.

I happen to agree with both of these views. Again, it was Michel Chapoutier's Tavel Rose that was the inspiration for this wine. I happen to enjoy these wines young and after they have matured a little. From my perspective, this really is one of the aspects of the art of winemaking- to be able to produce wines that are attractive when young and are also able to age gracefully. Kind of like Grace Kelly or Sophia Lauren. From another generation but classic, timeless and enjoyed by many

kaolis wrote:..and there is always the Terlato lunch/dining room..still intact?

Yes it is and thank you for asking. One kind wine writer /critic was thoughtful enough to say in an article that "getting an invitation to the Terlato dining room is more difficult than getting a reservation at Taillevent". Quite an honor, but we are just preparing simple foods paired with some wonderful wines. Have I had the pleasure of meeting you in our dining room?

kylemittskus wrote:We still have some unanswered questions so hopefully the winemaker comes on board. To summarize, they are:

pH?
TA?
Brix at harvest?
Were these grapes always intended for rose' or is the juice left-over to increase the reds' concentration?
Reason for the price difference between the two vintages? (I assume this is to clear out the previous vintage.)
Where the hell is Jimmy Hoffa?!

Brix: 23.8
pH: 3.40
TA: 6.5 grams per liter
Price difference: 2010 was a cooler vintage and the yields were lower, hence higher per acre fruit costs, hence higher price.

I can not tell you where Jimmy Hoffa is, but I have answered the Wooters other questions.

Jt

Winedavid39 wrote:that settles it. next woot offer needs to be negotiated in person.. :-)

Happily

rjquillin wrote:I believe I've read, in one of rpm's suggested books, the presence of alcohol may also be perceived/confused as or enhance apparent sweetness.

Did I just miss the promised numbers?

Promised numbers sent.

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:Promised numbers sent.

See above

kaolis wrote:1. no
2. no
3. fruit does not equate to dryness. it is already stated that this has no residual sugar, so bone dry it is. and without RS, doubtful any fizz.

1. Never said fruit equates to dryness so not sure where you are going with this
2. I know there is no RS but there is this things known as perceived sweetness which is what I am referring to
Is fizz linked to RS? I am pretty sure the fizz I refer to is either CO2 or minerality....

Thanks though!

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:Yes it is and thank you for asking. One kind wine writer /critic was thoughtful enough to say in an article that "getting an invitation to the Terlato dining room is more difficult than getting a reservation at Taillevent". Quite an honor, but we are just preparing simple foods paired with some wonderful wines. Have I had the pleasure of meeting you in our dining room?

I was there once, lonnngggg time ago. (I'm closer to 60 than 50..can't believe I just said that) A friend of mine owned a retail shop west of Chicago.

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:
I can not tell you where Jimmy Hoffa is, but I have answered the Wooters other questions.

Jt

found him alive and well in Oregon

losthighwayz wrote:1. Never said fruit equates to dryness so not sure where you are going with this
2. I know there is no RS but there is this things known as perceived sweetness which is what I am referring to
Is fizz linked to RS? I am pretty sure the fizz I refer to is either CO2 or minerality....

Thanks though!

1. Sorry, but your question was "Is it a CA style fruit forward Rose with some fizz OR bone dry like your typical French Rose?" So I thought you meant CA fruit forward meant not bone dry...

2. I get that

3. As I know it, and I am NOT an expert..it takes residual sugar, not converted to alcohol,and as you said carbon dioxide, whether intended or not intended, to create a bubble. If I recall. malolactic fermentation, or what degree of, can play a part as well. But I really don't know the exacts. Maybe someone can chime in and help me out or tell me I'm off base.

Not sure what you mean by minerality as it relates to "fizz"

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:Promised numbers sent.

And you just made my life more difficult with those.
Appreciate them, although my wallet may not.

First time in a while no one has acknowledged Mill as first sucker. That is quite an endorsement. i am in for one with Mill being the deciding factor.

Apropos of nothing I can add that Rutherford Hill merlot was responsible for my wine ah-ha moment somewhere around 25 years ago. A colleague ordered some with dinner and it made me wonder what else I had been missing out on. I guess I should see if the Rosé can have the same effect.

Last wooter to woot:UBlink
Last purchase:a minute ago

UBlink wrote:Apropos of nothing I can add that Rutherford Hill merlot was responsible for my wine ah-ha moment somewhere around 25 years ago. A colleague ordered some with dinner and it made me wonder what else I had been missing out on. I guess I should see if the Rosé can have the same effect.

Last wooter to woot:UBlink
Last purchase:a minute ago

Ublink. Send me your address. Want to send you a signed bottle of RH wine as a thank you for being a supporter and because RH wine provided your ah ha moment. Hope you enjoy the rosé
Jt

rjquillin wrote:And you just made my life more difficult with those.
Appreciate them, although my wallet may not.

Enjoy it. Life is not a practice round. .
Jt

Thank you Wooters. I enjoyed answering your queries and participating in the discussion and I hope you will enjoy my family's wines in good health.

Come visit with us at Rutherford Hill Winery sometime - enjoy our views, enjoy our wines - and enjoy life. It's all good.

Regards,
John Terlato

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:Unlink. Send me your address. Want to send you a signed bottle of RH wine as a thank you for being a supporter and because RH wine provided your ah ha moment. Hoe you enjoy the rosé
Jt

All the pricing and chemistry quabbles aside, things like this are what make wine.woot such a cool thing. Top notch Mr. Terlato!

jhrdy724 wrote:All the pricing and chemistry quabbles aside, things like this are what make wine.woot such a cool thing. Top notch Mr. Terlato!

My pleasure. Thanks for the kind words.
John

kaolis wrote:
3. As I know it, and I am NOT an expert..it takes residual sugar, not converted to alcohol,and as you said carbon dioxide, whether intended or not intended, to create a bubble. If I recall. malolactic fermentation, or what degree of, can play a part as well. But I really don't know the exacts. Maybe someone can chime in and help me out or tell me I'm off base.

Not sure what you mean by minerality as it relates to "fizz"

Having RS is not a requirement to create fizziness in wine; there are many ways to get that fizz naturally and artificially. Artificially speaking, some wineries purposely dissolve CO2 into the wine during bottling to give it a brighter sensation on the tongue.

The sensation of minerality on the tounge is similar to that of CO2(fizz), in small quantities.

terlatofamilyvineyards wrote:Thank you Wooters. I enjoyed answering your queries and participating in the discussion and I hope you will enjoy my family's wines in good health.

Come visit with us at Rutherford Hill Winery sometime - enjoy our views, enjoy our wines - and enjoy life. It's all good.

Regards,
John Terlato

Thanks for coming back and answering all those questions! Appreciate the info and explanations - sorry I was gone the rest of the day. I would have probably been in based on your answers.

Cheers!