Feedback to Pacific Rim
1. The tech specs on your website for your wines are confusing. Sometimes they do not appear to match the styling (dry, medium dry, etc.) in the text when either German or IRF rules are applied. For example, on one web page for the Solstice Riesling, there are two different sets of specs without clear reference to the vintage. This makes it very confusing for the buyer and leads a savvy buyer to doubt the rest of the Pacific Rim operation.
2. There is a lot of great information about Rieslings on your site - thank you. But the number of empty pages one runs into also leads one to doubt the quality of your operation and question whether you are really Riesling lovers or Riesling posers. I think you are the former, but I really wonder half the time whether you're doing it for the marketing hype.

Long story short - I am trying to like you since I truly love riesling, but it's hard.

Comments on this Wine
I have not tried this wine.

I am going to use the specs on the Woot offer (in the table, not the text) which are supported by the voicemail from Nicholas. I will ignore the specs on the website which I will assume apply to other vintages.

I do not know what the sugar at harvest was, so I do not know where to place it in the German scale: kabinett, spätlese, auslese, etc. My guess is that is was probably harvested at the spätlese (18-22 Brix) or auslese level (up to 24 Brix), fermented to the almost dryness to yield the alcohol and sugar levels.

The residual sugar and acid levels place this as a medium dry wine on the IRF scale and on the German scale (>9.0 g/L sugar), though it is right on the edge of the boundary between dry and medium-dry (half-dry or halbtrocken in German) at 9.3 g/L sugar and 9.3 g/L acid. The apparent low yield levels are similar to those found in German and Alsatian appellations and should result in concentrated flavors and allow the terroir show through. The high acid content and mineral content from the vineyard should allow this to age well over 10 or more years, I think. Fifteen years might be an experiment

Since I have not tasted the Solstice, I want to reference a Pac Rim wine I did try. The Pac Rim Dry Riesling was offered here not too long ago – at the same price as I could get it at my local liquor store. The marketing hype and poor handling of specs on the Pac Rim website completely turned me off. However, I wanted to see what the wine really tasted like. I forced myself to set aside the impression I had of the winery as a company. I got a bottle at my local store instead of buying six or whatever the offer was here at woot. I was quite surprised at the quality of the wine – I expected junk. That wine was definitely a medium dry wine, not truly “dry” in the Alsatian or German sense (or even the IRF scale, if I recall correctly, but again, the numbers were very confusing). At the $10/btl price point from my local store and decent balance between acid and sugar, I now keep a bottle or two on hand in the cellar. It is a well made wine with good balance, though a slightly sweeter style than I prefer. The Pac Rim Dry Riesling is sealed with a screw cap – a sign of progressive attention to ways to avoid cork taint and the extraction of flavors by the cork. I am very interested in how the science evolves here and how the screw-cap sealed wines really age in the real world. I would not have a problem with this resting in my cellar for five or more years.

So given the quality of the Pac Rim Dry Riesling, I expect this to be a very nice wine and align with the comments regarding acid/sugar balance that have been posted by the Nicholas and others.

Regarding the price – The Pac Rim Dry Riesling at $10/btl is a fair price. The Solstice is priced at $32 on the Pac Rim site (free shipping with six bottles). I have paid over $30 for quality German and Alsatian single vineyard gewürztraminers and Rieslings, but not often. This offer is $23.67 to my door. That is a 26% discount – not the best discount I have ever seen on woot, but brings it down to a point where I might consider it on the strength of the Pac Rim Dry experience.

Personally, I have a cellar that is pretty full right now with great representation from Rieslings, both old and new world. So I am on the fence unless I can get some reliable tasting notes comparing this to known German or Alsatian wines.

lbchomer wrote:Considering I'm just barely getting into whites and have never tried a Riesling, can you convince me to pay more for a white than I have for most reds on this site?

Christian Schiller's notes on this tasting of some powerhouse Rieslings are an interesting read and give a perspective on the breadth of wine that the Riesling grape is capable of.

Here is a posting about aging potential from the same symposium with comments by Jancis Robinson:
http://schiller-wine.blogspot.com/2010/12/aging-potential-of-riesling-wine.html
One comment that I love is about a 1990 Mosel Kabinett (kabinetts are generally not expected to age too long): "JR: Another treat from the Mosel, amazingly not yet ready to drink, single most ascertive wine so far, not yet middle age, very youthful, very dense, massive finish." This is riesling - 20 year old kabinett that is not yet ready to drink! I love this varietal!

Greg,

Thanks for the long note and the feedback on the website. Solstice was picked at 23.1 Brix in 2010 - Auslese picking ripeness levels. Acid at 0.93 and RS at 0.93 + pH at 3.11, this is a ratio of 1 on the IRF scale aka dry. Best,

Nicolas

liverman wrote:Feedback to Pacific Rim
1. The tech specs on your website for your wines are confusing. Sometimes they do not appear to match the styling (dry, medium dry, etc.) in the text when either German or IRF rules are applied. For example, on one web page for the Solstice Riesling, there are two different sets of specs without clear reference to the vintage. This makes it very confusing for the buyer and leads a savvy buyer to doubt the rest of the Pacific Rim operation.
2. There is a lot of great information about Rieslings on your site - thank you. But the number of empty pages one runs into also leads one to doubt the quality of your operation and question whether you are really Riesling lovers or Riesling posers. I think you are the former, but I really wonder half the time whether you're doing it for the marketing hype.

Long story short - I am trying to like you since I truly love riesling, but it's hard.

Comments on this Wine
I have not tried this wine.

I am going to use the specs on the Woot offer (in the table, not the text) which are supported by the voicemail from Nicholas. I will ignore the specs on the website which I will assume apply to other vintages.

I do not know what the sugar at harvest was, so I do not know where to place it in the German scale: kabinett, spätlese, auslese, etc. My guess is that is was probably harvested at the spätlese (18-22 Brix) or auslese level (up to 24 Brix), fermented to the almost dryness to yield the alcohol and sugar levels.

The residual sugar and acid levels place this as a medium dry wine on the IRF scale and on the German scale (>9.0 g/L sugar), though it is right on the edge of the boundary between dry and medium-dry (half-dry or halbtrocken in German) at 9.3 g/L sugar and 9.3 g/L acid. The apparent low yield levels are similar to those found in German and Alsatian appellations and should result in concentrated flavors and allow the terroir show through. The high acid content and mineral content from the vineyard should allow this to age well over 10 or more years, I think. Fifteen years might be an experiment

Since I have not tasted the Solstice, I want to reference a Pac Rim wine I did try. The Pac Rim Dry Riesling was offered here not too long ago – at the same price as I could get it at my local liquor store. The marketing hype and poor handling of specs on the Pac Rim website completely turned me off. However, I wanted to see what the wine really tasted like. I forced myself to set aside the impression I had of the winery as a company. I got a bottle at my local store instead of buying six or whatever the offer was here at woot. I was quite surprised at the quality of the wine – I expected junk. That wine was definitely a medium dry wine, not truly “dry” in the Alsatian or German sense (or even the IRF scale, if I recall correctly, but again, the numbers were very confusing). At the $10/btl price point from my local store and decent balance between acid and sugar, I now keep a bottle or two on hand in the cellar. It is a well made wine with good balance, though a slightly sweeter style than I prefer. The Pac Rim Dry Riesling is sealed with a screw cap – a sign of progressive attention to ways to avoid cork taint and the extraction of flavors by the cork. I am very interested in how the science evolves here and how the screw-cap sealed wines really age in the real world. I would not have a problem with this resting in my cellar for five or more years.

So given the quality of the Pac Rim Dry Riesling, I expect this to be a very nice wine and align with the comments regarding acid/sugar balance that have been posted by the Nicholas and others.

Regarding the price – The Pac Rim Dry Riesling at $10/btl is a fair price. The Solstice is priced at $32 on the Pac Rim site (free shipping with six bottles). I have paid over $30 for quality German and Alsatian single vineyard gewürztraminers and Rieslings, but not often. This offer is $23.67 to my door. That is a 26% discount – not the best discount I have ever seen on woot, but brings it down to a point where I might consider it on the strength of the Pac Rim Dry experience.

Personally, I have a cellar that is pretty full right now with great representation from Rieslings, both old and new world. So I am on the fence unless I can get some reliable tasting notes comparing this to known German or Alsatian wines.

Greg,

Thanks for the long note and the feedback on the website. Solstice was picked at 23.1 Brix in 2010 - Auslese picking ripeness levels. Acid at 0.93 and RS at 0.93 + pH at 3.11, this is a ratio of 1 on the IRF scale aka dry. Best,

Nicolas

Have not had this particular one, but I do love a Northwest riesling. Might be in for 1.

I've seen Pacific Rim Riesling at Safeway (I believe the same one that was offered here a few months back). Given the label I wasn't too sure it would be a serious wine, but the feedback on this thread would indicate that these guys are serious and it's a good wine for the paltry $10 entry. I'll definitely pick up a bottle to try out.

One question - what is it that people look for in a good Riesling? What taste profile does a Riesling go for?

nicoriesling wrote:Greg,

Thanks for the long note and the feedback on the website. Solstice was picked at 23.1 Brix in 2010 - Auslese picking ripeness levels. Acid at 0.93 and RS at 0.93 + pH at 3.11, this is a ratio of 1 on the IRF scale aka dry. Best,

Nicolas

Nicholas - please take this in an attempt to improve your IRF documents.

If you read the chart, it clearly states that dry requires a ratio of sugar/acid that is LESS than 1.0 "<1.0".

If you read the text below the chart on this webpage, it states: "Dry. All wines carrying this designation will have a sugar-to-acid ratio not exceeding 1.0". Which indicates that a ratio of 1.0 is dry.

I take it I should use the text instead if the chart? If you have some pull with the IRF , maybe you could get them to update the chart?

Thanks!

bsevern wrote:

One question - what is it that people look for in a good Riesling? What taste profile does a Riesling go for?

Rieslings are all over the scale, from bone dry granite and lime, to spatelese peaches, up to honeyed TBAs, and everything in between.
A great riesling is all about the balance between the residual sugar and the acidity (which generally needs to be blazingly high to balance the RS).

After updating my CT recently, I realized that nearly 50% of my cellar is devoted to Mosel Rieslings ... I love 'em. The low alcohol drinkability, the huge acidity, the minerality, the balance, the affordability, the terroir.

liverman wrote:Feedback to Pacific Rim
1. The tech specs on your website for your wines are confusing. Sometimes they do not appear to match the styling (dry, medium dry, etc.) in the text when either German or IRF rules are applied. For example, on one web page for the Solstice Riesling, there are two different sets of specs without clear reference to the vintage. This makes it very confusing for the buyer and leads a savvy buyer to doubt the rest of the Pacific Rim operation ...

... Personally, I have a cellar that is pretty full right now with great representation from Rieslings, both old and new world. So I am on the fence unless I can get some reliable tasting notes comparing this to known German or Alsatian wines.

You've performed a real service here, both to us Woot'rs and to the winemaker.

Thanks.

bsevern wrote:I've seen Pacific Rim Riesling at Safeway (I believe the same one that was offered here a few months back). Given the label I wasn't too sure it would be a serious wine, but the feedback on this thread would indicate that these guys are serious and it's a good wine for the paltry $10 entry. I'll definitely pick up a bottle to try out.

One question - what is it that people look for in a good Riesling? What taste profile does a Riesling go for?

When you look in the market, pay attention as there are three Pac Rim Rieslings: "Dry Riesling", "Reisling" and "Sweet Riesling". The one I commented on is the "Dry Riesling". The other two have more residual sugar and will taste sweeter.

What do I look for in a Riesling? For a normal harvest wine, I look for a wine where the aromas and flavors of the grape are evident (high quality, correctly ripened fruit) and not clouded by the winemaking. Riesling transmits the nuances of the vineyard (terroir) and the vintage (seasonal weather) very well, so I look for a wine where that is not clouded by the way the wine was made.

Both acid and sugar can overwhelm the delicate riesling and terroir notes, so they must be balanced. I believe, that a dry riesling allows the native riesling and terroir flavors to shine through better than sweet wines. I look for Reislings labeled "dry" or "half dry".

For late and selected harvest wines, I look for all those things plus the unique qualities imparted to the Reisling by the Botrytis cinerea or "noble rot" fungus. Botrytis causes the berries to loose moisture and dry out which concentrates flavors, acids and sugars inside the berry on the vine. In addition, there are some unique flavor notes imparted by the botrytis. Because of the concetration of other flavors, the immense sweetness of these wines is not so much of an issue.

My favorite types of rieslings are ones harvested at higher ripeness levels "spätlese" and "auslese" but prepared so the residual or remaining sugar after fermentation is low: dry or medium dry wine. The winemaker has fermnented out the sugar and left the flavor behind with only enough sugar to balance the acid.

The Pacific Rim Solstice has the hallmarks of that kind of wine.

Other thing that they might take a look at would be to ship to more than 15-odd states...just sayin...

Add another shipping complaint from Tennessee.

liverman wrote:Feedback to Pacific Rim...

I appreciate what you bring to the woot forums. Thank you.

liverman wrote:Nicholas - please take this in an attempt to improve your IRF documents.

If you read the chart, it clearly states that dry requires a ratio of sugar/acid that is LESS than 1.0 "<1.0".

If you read the text below the chart on this webpage, it states: "Dry. All wines carrying this designation will have a sugar-to-acid ratio not exceeding 1.0". Which indicates that a ratio of 1.0 is dry.

I take it I should use the text instead if the chart? If you have some pull with the IRF , maybe you could get them to update the chart?

Thanks!

Greg, Alright you got us - are you an engineer? ;-)

I am the Vice President of the International Riesling Foundation - should be able to update the table if the Germans agree!

Nicolas,

When are these wines going to be on the store shelves for those of us that are not on the ship to list, but have stores that carry your wines?

liverman wrote:Christian Schiller's notes on this tasting of some powerhouse Rieslings are an interesting read and give a perspective on the breadth of wine that the Riesling grape is capable of.

Here is a posting about aging potential from the same symposium with comments by Jancis Robinson:
http://schiller-wine.blogspot.com/2010/12/aging-potential-of-riesling-wine.html
One comment that I love is about a 1990 Mosel Kabinett (kabinetts are generally not expected to age too long): "JR: Another treat from the Mosel, amazingly not yet ready to drink, single most ascertive wine so far, not yet middle age, very youthful, very dense, massive finish." This is riesling - 20 year old kabinett that is not yet ready to drink! I love this varietal!

I just had a 2006 Leonard Kreusch Kabinett that was delicious and could probably go another year or two although it certainly wouldn't stand up to the Mosel. But for $5.99 on sale at the local wine shop, I am not complaining! Can't wait to try their Auselse and Spatlese that I still have stashed away and will be keeping an eye out for LK Rieslings from now on.

bkarlan wrote:Nicolas,

When are these wines going to be on the store shelves for those of us that are not on the ship to list, but have stores that carry your wines?

Well, we don't make much of the Solstice. What State are you in that we don't ship into? I can check if anyone carries it.

tkastorff wrote:Garbage. No one is comparing Pacific Rim woot wine to 1/2 bottle of Germany's finest $450 item. Give me a break man. The worst comparison you have ever made in this forum.

For the average Riesling consumer, this is a very expensive offering. Riesling is the wine that initially got me hooked so I like to think I have drank quite a few and at different price points.

You can get some really high quality stuff, including German, at Costco for much less than this, as well as much more than this. But it is easy to find $5-15 bottles that are delicious.

I'd love to try this but not for 3 at $70. Bummer.

And I agree, the posted mission statement is a bit awkward - you don't scream about brand loyalty to the consumer's face. Not usually.

Hi there, can you recommend some Rieslings offered at Costco? I've never tried a Riesling and would like to start off with a less expensive offering.

Nate650 wrote:Hi there, can you recommend some Rieslings offered at Costco? I've never tried a Riesling and would like to start off with a less expensive offering.

I may get stabbed with a corkscrew from the other commenters, but I am fond of Chateau Ste. Michelle's Riesling ($5.99 a bottle at Costsco #1). I like a light wine that is just barely sweet, and this one screams warm summer evening to me. A mixed case of that and their Gewurztraminer will get me through the month or so of summer we get in Seattle.

*ducks for cover*

michaepf wrote:Winery, just some unsolicited advice: while I understand and appreciate the value of having a focused mission statement to guide internal decision-making, yours may not be framed in such a way that you want to broadcast it to customers...

[Edit: To be fair, the description is probably for distributors, resellers, etc. I bet they didn't even know we'd be able to see it.]

Winery mission statement for the trade now has been changed to a marketing statement aimed at the consumer.... wines may be be great, but that was certainly an odd way to go about it...

Nate650 wrote:Hi there, can you recommend some Rieslings offered at Costco? I've never tried a Riesling and would like to start off with a less expensive offering.

Safeway sells the Pacific Rim Riesling that was offered here a few months ago for something like $8.99 or $9.99/bottle. After all the positive posts about it today I'm going to try a bottle so I can snap up the next wine.woot Pacific Rim Riesling deal!

American Riesling = Finger Lakes

pazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

neilfindswine wrote:Nicolas- Thanks for joining us and for offering up this wine. I imagine one doesn't become the Vice President of the International Riesling Foundation unless one knows a thing or two about.... Riesling....? (and growing it and making it into wine)

Your contributions to today's discussion are appreciated...

The Riesling Foundation is a bit like your neighborhood association, you just have to show up and soon you are in charge ;-)

nicoriesling wrote:Well, we don't make much of the Solstice. What State are you in that we don't ship into? I can check if anyone carries it.

Albuquerque, NM.

texacaliali wrote:sorry, typing in from the iPhone tonight so in short, I only comment on wines that I strongly believe in and no, I don't say anything negative about wines that I don't care for, however I do correct false or misguided information on here when I can. As for this offer, I would rarely say such a strong positive statement about a domestic riesling, my experience is deep set in German and Alsace Riesling producers for many years. To this, the Solstice is a tremendous example of a single vineyard site, a few layers more complex than the former dry rieslings offered from Esterlina, but as enjoyable.

You sold me, I really enjoyed the Esterlina and Pacific Rim Rieslings. Plus I'm a freak when it comes to German Riesling - Peter Lauer, A.J. Adam, Immich to name a few faves.

Very surprised that only 47 of these sold

Spent my money on the Ty offer on rue else would've been in for 2, had the biodynamic riesling and it was amazing...

nicoriesling wrote:Greg, Alright you got us - are you an engineer? ;-)

I am the Vice President of the International Riesling Foundation - should be able to update the table if the Germans agree!

Chemical physics. The rocket scientists were in the lab next door . I do work with a lot of engineers now .

I learned about Rieslings while at the Max Plank Institut für Quantenoptik in Garching. I know how the Germans like to be precise

Good luck with getting the Germans to agree

We can agree for the time being that at 1.0 the wine could be styled as either dry or medium dry and leave it at that.

bkarlan wrote:Albuquerque, NM.

Hello bkarlan...Nicolas had asked me to search for some Solstice in NM. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't look like we have any out there right now.

bsevern wrote:Very surprised that only 47 of these sold

I would imagine that the fact that the wine was available for shipping to a very limited number of states (18) had an impact on sales. Although I was initially curious about the wine, my interest was significantly dampened once I realized that I was unable to complete a purchase.