Okay, this is a bit of rant, but it has been incredibly frustrating to me over about the last 6-8 months, so I am hoping for some real answers to my question, preferable from WineDavid himself. I end up posting back on the threads of wines I am buying, with shipping related questions, sometimes answered, sometimes not. In hopes of eliminating future worries and needs for such posts, I am going to combine my various experience and questions into this one thread. This is relating only to wine and not non-wine items.

First of all, who ships the wine? It seems like we get told constantly that the wine is shipped by the winery, yet nearly every box I get comes from Wine Country Connect. Is woot/WCC providing the labels, postage, etc to the wineries and then they are shipping? I know and I have heard Scott Harvey and others say "I dropped the wine off to woot yesterday, or I'm dropping it off tomorrow, etc". I understand that say a Washington, or Oregon, or Michigan winery is probably going to ship it themselves, but I am just looking for a clarification here as to what the ACTUAL process is.

Going along with that, when and how are shipping labels/tracking numbers generated? I think this is the most frustrating part of the shipping for me and everyone else. I've noticed 3 or 4 total variations in the process.

1) I get an email from woot with tracking information, the packing was picked up and is now in route. Everything normal and is the way I would expect it to work, ship date and estimated arrival date is pretty much spot on (this is maybe 50% of the time if I am lucky).

2) I never receive a Fed Ex notification and the package just shows up. No, this was not caught in spam filter, etc, there was no email. Sometimes when this occurs, there is a tracking number listed in my account order history and I am able to track it there, but occasionally it is not even listed there. What is the issue here?

3) I receive an email from Woot with Fed Ex tracking, only to find out that the order shipped several days ago and is scheduled to arrive today, or tomorrow. Why don't I get this email a lot sooner?

4) I receive an email from Woot with tracking information. The information shows an estimated ship date and estimated arrival date but no actual movement. When this occurs, the package doesn't usually even leave or get "picked up" until nearly a week after the "estimated ship date". Why am I getting shipping information for something that isn't even shipped yet?

I'm just trying to understand why there are so many variations in the process and if there is a way for things to be simplified or better yet, corrected between woot, WCC, the wineries and Fed Ex. I know I am not the only one who is trying to get accurate and timely shipping information to determine when and where I will be receiving packages.

I generally have my orders shipped to either my office or to my Apartment, but depending on when they are going to arrive I often redirect them to a Fed Ex store for pickup (I work out of the office more often then not and there isn't always someone home to sign for a package). It is very difficult to coordinate this when I am getting inaccurate shipping information. Also, how am I suppose to redirect a package when I do even get tracking formation until the day the package is going to arrive?

I realize that I am not asking a simple question with a simple answer, but a detailed answer from someone who can actually answer the questions and explain the situations would go a very long way to answering the questions that get asked on a very regular basis. I typically follow other offers and see people's questions on a daily basis and will be happy to provide them with links to this thread of this questions actually get answered.

Thanks in advance for your time.

North316 (aka Dan)

North316 wrote:
I'm just trying to understand why there are so many variations in the process

I'm guessing it has something to do with $5 shipping. FWIW, I almost always get my e-mail notifications with a FedEx tracking number AFTER the shipment has been delivered. For me, it works fine. My admin just yells, "Hey, somebody has more wine to drink".

SmilingBoognish wrote:I'm guessing it has something to do with $5 shipping. FWIW, I almost always get my e-mail notifications with a FedEx tracking number AFTER the shipment has been delivered. For me, it works fine. My admin just yells, "Hey, somebody has more wine to drink".

It has nothing to do with the price paid for shipping, or at least it SHOULDN'T have anything to do with the price paid for shipping. I've ordered plenty of wine from other sites with free shipping and have had none of the shipping headaches I have experienced here. Not to mention, much fast shipping.

I realize that this process is unique from those other sites because they are essentially acting as distributors, whereas Woot is more-or-less just selling on behalf of the winery. I am just trying to understand the process to mitigate frustrations.

Woot handles the shipping for the vast majority of the wines sold. The winery is the seller of record (for shipping purposes) and WCC is essentially the "third party shipper". I think the only time that isn't true is for the few non west coast wines. That's why shipping is so varied with each offering. WCC handles the logistics though.

Now, as to why you get a shipping notice and then nothing. Well that depends on the time of year. When a label is generated, FedEx sends you notice. Doesn't mean it was picked up for shipment, just that a label was generated. If the wine is packed, stamped and then weather or timing makes it preferable to hold the wine a little longer at the climate controlled warehouse, that happens. Then you get this delay between a label generating and actual shipping. Sucks for you and me, but is best for the wine.

Now, why the wine gets delivered THEN you get the notice it shipped. That I hate, a lot. But I've learned to live with it.

North316 wrote:It has nothing to do with the price paid for shipping, or at least it SHOULDN'T have anything to do with the price paid for shipping. I've ordered plenty of wine from other sites with free shipping and have had none of the shipping headaches I have experienced here. Not to mention, much fast shipping.

I realize that this process is unique from those other sites because they are essentially acting as distributors, whereas Woot is more-or-less just selling on behalf of the winery. I am just trying to understand the process to mitigate frustrations.

bhodilee noted most it. I believe that the late emails are due to server glitches. That is, the emails are scheduled to go out, but due to a server issue, get delayed until there is a reboot of their email server.

Many was the time I wouldn't get emails from a non-Woot server until Monday morning, after the mail server was restarted at Midnight on Sunday/Monday. So I'm fairly certain that it's a similar issue on the late emails.


Part of the delays are due to the wineries. They have to get the wine to Woot (aka WCC), so any delays there cause delays in shipping to us. Thus the delay between the shipping label generation and the actual ship date.

Some of it is also due to the label being generated at WCC, and then sent to the winery for them to apply and ship (usually East Coast wineries).

Apropos, I don't know if you saw this post today on the thread from the recent Pedroncelli offer:

gerryak wrote:Just got a call from Fedex. My case will be delivered tomorrow (Western Washington). I didn't even know that it had been shipped...

I agree WW shipping notifications are not perfect and I often receive the emails on or after the day the wine arrives.

B/c of the crappy notifications I have learned to look up the tracking numbers myself by reference about 4-5 days after the purchase and then redirect the shipment to the fedex office near my work since my office will not receive non work related shipments. (the alcohol stickers do not help with this)

Part of the fun of wine.woot is figuring out the shipping yourself

90% of what I get from Wine.woot is packed and shipped by them for the winery.

So for me its definitely not perfect but I make it work and have not missed a shipment yet.

InFrom wrote:Apropos, I don't know if you saw this post today on the thread from the recent Pedroncelli offer:

Just got email today as well, delivery tomorrow. My default delivery location is the FedEx store. Right on the way home, cool storage inside, couldn't ask for more... And they call me when shipments arrive.

I got my Vineyard 1869 delivery last Thursday. I got the notice today. I was out of town and would have redirected it as well. Good thing my FedEx guy was nice enough to call and then leave it in front of my door. Otherwise it would have been cooked before I knew the shipment existed!

cortot20 wrote:I agree WW shipping notifications are not perfect and I often receive the emails on or after the day the wine arrives.

B/c of the crappy notifications I have learned to look up the tracking numbers myself by reference about 4-5 days after the purchase and then redirect the shipment to the fedex office near my work since my office will not receive non work related shipments. (the alcohol stickers do not help with this)

Part of the fun of wine.woot is figuring out the shipping yourself

90% of what I get from Wine.woot is packed and shipped by them for the winery.

So for me its definitely not perfect but I make it work and have not missed a shipment yet.

I know woot is quirky and that's great, but the back-end of a sale is not the place to be quirky. It's to the point where is bordering on bad customer service and honestly barks of very poor internal controls. I shouldn't have to guess when my packages are arriving and I shouldn't have to track down Fed ex information myself. It should be delivered consistently and accurately.

If the email servers are an issue, as someone mentioned above, a simple 3am daily reboot of that server would solve the problem. I doubt that is the case.

cortot20 wrote:I agree WW shipping notifications are not perfect and I often receive the emails on or after the day the wine arrives.

B/c of the crappy notifications I have learned to look up the tracking numbers myself by reference about 4-5 days after the purchase and then redirect the shipment to the fedex office near my work since my office will not receive non work related shipments. (the alcohol stickers do not help with this)

Part of the fun of wine.woot is figuring out the shipping yourself

90% of what I get from Wine.woot is packed and shipped by them for the winery.

So for me its definitely not perfect but I make it work and have not missed a shipment yet.

Thanks, I had forgotten the "track by reference" trick. I see that my shipment was initiated a week ago and supposedly is being delivered today.

I used to have no problem getting wine delivered to my office, but since we moved to a new building I have been having it held for pickup, and either I or a colleague have been going to Fedex to get it. I don't know if it would be cool with this building's management, so I haven't chanced it, but today I just may find out whether it's really a problem.

In any case I'll give Fedex a call and see if they can tell me whether it's really on the truck for delivery today. I kind of doubt it, but you never know.

rjquillin wrote:Just got email today as well, delivery tomorrow. My default delivery location is the FedEx store. Right on the way home, cool storage inside, couldn't ask for more... And they call me when shipments arrive.

This is what I do, and it works really well. I appreciate the phone call from the FedEx/Kinkos office, because I can't remember the last time I received a shipping notice via email from woot.

Email notifications:
- Answer is simple..... FedEx commercial shipping will send out email notifications from them to the receiver. WW would simply have to supply the customers email and request the service. UPS, which is a much more reliable shipper, also offers this service through their Quantum View application.

- Another answer is for woot to get their parent company to properly manage their email. If you look at the email headers, you'll see that the first entry is designating the AWS SMTP server. From there you can draw one of two conclusions; either woot servers are unable to hand the mail off to the AWS smtp server or the smtp server is unable to empty it's queues in a timely fashion. The former being more likely. FYI, the half dozen or so tracking emails I checked were accepted by the google mail servers (I have Google Apps) 1 second after the message was sent.

Customer service:
- What I'd really like to know is why any shipping question sent to customer service gets the exact same reply that WW doesn't ship and that the wineries do, when we all know that is not the case.

I have received exactly two shipments that didn't originate at "SACRAMENTO, CA, US." One was a Jana Cathedral order where I requested an increase from 1 to 3 sets and was thus I guess was shipped by the winery and actual came via UPS, not FedEx. The other was a non west coast winery and had the WCC shipping label but different packaging.

So can woot customer service get their story straight, please.

To be honest, I don't care. For $5 shipping, I can have my packages held at a FedEx office, and it's not UPS. These three things, I love.

mschauber wrote:Email notifications:
- Answer is simple..... FedEx commercial shipping will send out email notifications from them to the receiver. WW would simply have to supply the customers email and request the service. UPS, which is a much more reliable shipper, also offers this service through their Quantum View application.

I've been a Quantum View customer for many years now and agree the notification works well, but so does the FedEx email notification system, when there is not a third party involved.

Regarding carriers in general, huge kudos for WW using FedEx;

[rant]

The FedEx customer service is -much- easier to deal with, and provides more accurate and timely information than UPS. Just today I called UPS looking for a NEXT DAY parcel that should have been delivered on Monday. They told me to come by the main center and pick it up. It was delivered ~30 minutes later, but two days late. UPS also lost one of two cartons in a wine shipment from Hunt Country, and the one that was delivered was three days past it's scheduled delivery date while they "searched" for it, over a weekend. Hunt replaced the other, using FedEx, about two weeks later.

FedEx does not charge for "hold at FedEx" as does UPS. Further with FedEx there doesn't have to be a failed delivery attempt before you can, as the receiver, redirect a shipment. With UPS only the shipper can redirect.

With FedEx the choice of hold at FedEx choices is much greater, with UPS it's a trip to the center.

The level of service and convenience with FedEx so exceed UPS now with the other sites we purchase from I demand FedEx and will not accept UPS, the occasional exception is GSO shipping, and my local FedEx store will now even accept those for me!

[/rant]

Also, for those that want to track, try faranow.com. Works with most carriers.

Got notified May 2nd that a label was created for Rebels of the Vine. No movement yet, so no telling where it is or when it will really be shipped.

Got notified tonight that the case of Pedroncelli was being shipped. There is no Fedex number for this when I check my order history. It was delivered today.

So, I agree with North316 that there should be uniformity and accuracy with the shipping. I or a family member cannot always be home so this method of notification needs to be corrected. I do not have these shipping issues with Lot18, Invino or WTSO.

Faranow.com is good, but often misses updates. I've used it since it's early days as packagetrackr.com. For a free service, it's about as good as you can get.

As for the UPS vs FedEx debate... Maybe it has to do with where one lives, but in 25+ years of receiving and sending 300-500 packages a year from the NYC area, I have rarely had issues with UPS. The drivers are great, often making two attempts in one day when I wasn't home the first time or leaving boxes in predetermined places. Of course that was when I lived in a house. Now that I live in a doorman building, there is someone here 24/7 to accept packages. Through the years I have had numerous packages returned to sender by FedEx for no reason. FedEx ground shipping is 1 to 2 days slower from CA to NYC than UPS. FedEx unreliably notifies me about packages (the phone call about an 18 years or older person able to sign.) FedEx has shown packages (WINE) 'on truck out for delivery' from Friday evening to delivery Monday afternoon. Nice way to bake wine. Most recently FedEx had my order of Brix chocolate and Monterrey Jack cheese sitting in their truck for 3 days.

So while some may feel FedEx is the better choice, it's not for everyone.

BTW, Quantum View is a free application from UPS for businesses. They may charge for non-commercial use, but I can't speak to that, nor can I speak to their online version as I still use the local Windows software.

rjquillin wrote:I've been a Quantum View customer for many years now and agree the notification works well, but so does the FedEx email notification system, when there is not a third party involved.

Regarding carriers in general, huge kudos for WW using FedEx;

[rant]

The FedEx customer service is -much- easier to deal with, and provides more accurate and timely information than UPS. Just today I called UPS looking for a NEXT DAY parcel that should have been delivered on Monday. They told me to come by the main center and pick it up. It was delivered ~30 minutes later, but two days late. UPS also lost one of two cartons in a wine shipment from Hunt Country, and the one that was delivered was three days past it's scheduled delivery date while they "searched" for it, over a weekend. Hunt replaced the other, using FedEx, about two weeks later.

FedEx does not charge for "hold at FedEx" as does UPS. Further with FedEx there doesn't have to be a failed delivery attempt before you can, as the receiver, redirect a shipment. With UPS only the shipper can redirect.

With FedEx the choice of hold at FedEx choices is much greater, with UPS it's a trip to the center.

The level of service and convenience with FedEx so exceed UPS now with the other sites we purchase from I demand FedEx and will not accept UPS, the occasional exception is GSO shipping, and my local FedEx store will now even accept those for me!

[/rant]

Also, for those that want to track, try faranow.com. Works with most carriers.

mschauber wrote:BTW, Quantum View is a free application from UPS for businesses. They may charge for non-commercial use, but I can't speak to that, nor can I speak to their online version as I still use the local Windows software.

Agree, it appears service varies wildly based on location.

However:
UPS -charges for hold at UPS- here in CA!
Additional charges the recipient pays if the parcel is redirected, and only after a failed delivery attempt. For me, totally unacceptable.

Four notices this evening from the woot shipping bot. Two were delivered, today, to my FedEx store, the other two scheduled for tomorrow. No stress here, except where to store them.

Just a few minutes ago I received notification from woot about an order that actually originated in NJ (home.woot order.) Received by SmartPost facility today and scheduled for delivery tomorrow. That's almost as fast as Newegg/UPS shipping which 1/2 the time I receive the same day I order it ;)

rjquillin wrote:Agree, it appears service varies wildly based on location.

However:
UPS -charges for hold at UPS- here in CA!
Additional charges the recipient pays if the parcel is redirected, and only after a failed delivery attempt. For me, totally unacceptable.

Four notices this evening from the woot shipping bot. Two were delivered, today, to my FedEx store, the other two scheduled for tomorrow. No stress here, except where to store them.

I've never requested UPS to hold or redirect a package, so I can't speak to that. I can see there being a real need if you don't have a local FedEx or UPS store where you can have items delivered to (or a doorman or neighbor who can sign for you.)

It appears as if there are some people who at least share in frustrations, and the rest of you "just live with it". What I don't understand is why we have to just live it? I'm some changes could be made in the process to prevent at least some of these headaches.

I currently have 3 orders with an anticipated shipping date of 5/2 and one on 5/7, with absolutely no movement noted, not even a pickup notice. Tracking information on all four 4 of these orders was received nowhere near the anticipated ship date (which I'm assuming is when the label was created).

I'm still hoping that WD can chime in on this thread at some point.

North316 wrote:It appears as if there are some people who at least share in frustrations, and the rest of you "just live with it". What I don't understand is why we have to just live it? I'm some changes could be made in the process to prevent at least some of these headaches.

I currently have 3 orders with an anticipated shipping date of 5/2 and one on 5/7, with absolutely no movement noted, not even a pickup notice. Tracking information on all four 4 of these orders was received nowhere near the anticipated ship date (which I'm assuming is when the label was created).

I'm still hoping that WD can chime in on this thread at some point.

you're deifnitely not 'just living with it'... and i do believe that it's within our rights as consumers to reflect upon current business practices...

but also note that most of the folks on here who 'are ok with' this current shipping scheme have a little black square by their usernames... woot may very well point to the fact that there is no need to change since they have built up some brand loyalty... and that the decision to order is entirely up to us, the consumer (probably not the best business decision, but look at the soup man)...

personally, while i do believe that woot notification is not good, i'm not sure if i would trade it for an increase in shipping price, or to have great notification but have lousy replacement policy (current wine woot return policy on cooked or leaking bottle is awesome)

The FedEx vs UPS debate is honestly a waste of time. We will have no control over that since part of WD's business model is securing massive volume discounts that are no doubt better if you commit to using a single carrier.

The only major issue, imo, is the delays in shipping notification. The email should be sent immediately upon label printing. If it takes 3 days to start moving from the shipper then c'est la vie. The important thing would seem to be the ability to manage your deliveries. Receiving shipping notices after a package arrives doesn't help with that.

klezman wrote:The FedEx vs UPS debate is honestly a waste of time. We will have no control over that since part of WD's business model is securing massive volume discounts that are no doubt better if you commit to using a single carrier.

The only major issue, imo, is the delays in shipping notification. The email should be sent immediately upon label printing. If it takes 3 days to start moving from the shipper then c'est la vie. The important thing would seem to be the ability to manage your deliveries. Receiving shipping notices after a package arrives doesn't help with that.

I would agree with that. I frankly don't believe I have ever received a package before I actually received the notification (except in cases where I never actually received a notification, but it was still available under 'my account') but receiving it the day of the day before receiving shipment often doesn't give me the option to hold at a fed ex location prior to one failed delivery attempt.

North316 wrote:What I don't understand is why we have to just live it?

Because of the screaming good deals. You could just go to your local wine store and have no shipping issues whatsoever. ;)

SmilingBoognish wrote:Because of the screaming good deals. You could just go to your local wine store and have no shipping issues whatsoever. ;)

I have been able to get some SH Inzinerator for $7.50 a bottle that way...but that was a lucky one.

Winedavid39 wrote:on the subject of who ships the wine.

In all cases the winery is the seller and the responsible party for shipping the wine.

In most all cases, WCC (WineCountryConnect) ships the wine on behalf of the winery. Taking possession of the wine without taking ownership of the wine.

In no instance does woot ship the wine.

Huh?

jmdavidson wrote:Huh?

Translation: If you are a lawyer and read this thread woot is not a wine retailer. Wine.woot is a third party shipper and the winery sells directly to the recipient.

klezman wrote:Translation: If you are a lawyer and read this thread woot is not a wine retailer. Wine.woot is a third party shipper and the winery sells directly to the recipient.

Got it. Who's shipping the wine? The winery from their location? Or wine woot from their location? I don't care who creates the label. I remember seeing various wineries talk about delivering their wines to WW. So, why do we receive/not receive correct notifications about when the wine ships? That's the $M question.

jmdavidson wrote:Got it. Who's shipping the wine?

Seems pretty clear:
In most all cases, WCC (WineCountryConnect) ships the wine on behalf of the winery.

Everyone also needs to keep in mind that as spring warms up the wine shipments slow down. A label may be printed but there will not be any movement on the wine until it cools off. W.W. does not want to field a bunch of emails about spoiled wine.

When $7 shipping starts then most of the country gets the fridge trucks coming to your FedEx hub except those of us on the west coast who get the ice packs. Weather becomes less of a delay at this point.

cortot20 wrote:Everyone also needs to keep in mind that as spring warms up the wine shipments slow down. A label may be printed but there will not be any movement on the wine until it cools off. W.W. does not want to field a bunch of emails about spoiled wine.

When $7 shipping starts then most of the country gets the fridge trucks coming to your FedEx hub except those of us on the west coast who get the ice packs. Weather becomes less of a delay at this point.

I asked in a # of offer threads but never received an answer...

When does summer shipping start?

That greatly affects whether or not I place some orders now since I know the wine will sit in delivery trucks at minimum for a few hours and often a few days.

mschauber wrote:I asked in a # of offer threads but never received an answer...

When does summer shipping start?

That greatly affects whether or not I place some orders now since I know the wine will sit in delivery trucks at minimum for a few hours and often a few days.

It usually starts sometime in June.
You will notice the $ increase in shipping and there is also usually a woot staffer post concerning its specifics.

I would guess that the most spoilage happens during the the several weeks leading up to Summer shipping starting.

Winedavid39 wrote:Hello. I can assure you I/we are reading this thread with great interest. We're looking closely at our tracking notification system, and how the emails can be accelerated - stay tuned on that subject.

More generally, the producer-direct model we started way back when is optimized for a great end price for the customer, and to stay above board from a compliance/regulatory standpoint. This high bar standard can and does generate behind-the-scenes complexity that is not widely discussed. That said, thanks to this thread for raising visibility on this tracking-notification issue. Keep it coming, this is good (no, really...).

David, thanks for your response. I figured you were looking in and just had not commented yet. I fully understand that there are many different things at play here. I am in no way asking for faster shipping, as that really isn't an issue for me. I typically let the wine sit another few weeks to a month after shipping anyway before I open them, so the timing isn't the issues, the tracking is the big issue. It seems like it should be such a simple fix, but like a good wine, it also probably has several layers of complexity to it. I trust that you guys are looking into and will find a solution. I have no problem receiving notifications well in advance of actual shipment, but it just is not acceptable to receive them the day before or after shipment, and that I am sure you can understand.

klezman wrote:Translation: If you are a lawyer and read this thread woot is not a wine retailer. Wine.woot is a third party shipper and the winery sells directly to the recipient.

I think it's even more convoluted than that. Wine.woot only offers the portal and the space. The winery sells and ships directly to the recipient. WCC is not woot and handles the logistics of the shipping, basically acting as a third (fourth) party. So basically, woot has nothing to do with the sale/shipping, they only offer a "space". The winery sells and ships, but they contract WCC to do the shipping part (usually).

So...if my train has not derailed you can basically think of WW as WD's PT job.

woot shipping is ridiculously slow to new york, but after you know that you decide if you want to buy and since woot usually has the best prices i dont mine the wait. today i recieved 2 tracking # for the pedroncelli and all they say is initiated yet some of you have already recieved your deliveries (west coast i expect).the one time i was upset with woot was with the truchard offer that was supposed to have a guaranteed delivery for thanksgiving but came the next week .

bhodilee wrote:I think it's even more convoluted than that. Wine.woot only offers the portal and the space. The winery sells and ships directly to the recipient. WCC is not woot and handles the logistics of the shipping, basically acting as a third (fourth) party. So basically, woot has nothing to do with the sale/shipping, they only offer a "space". The winery sells and ships, but they contract WCC to do the shipping part (usually).

So...if my train has not derailed you can basically think of WW as WD's PT job.

Now you're just going all semantic on us