Wall Cellars Chardonnay by Twenty Rows
$59.99 + $5 shipping
CONDITION: White
PRODUCT: 5 2009 Wall Cellars Chardonnay
CT link above

Winery website

My eternal question for Chards - how is the oak?

So this is a sub sub label?

These guys.....rumor has it they make good wine

bsevern wrote:These guys.....rumor has it they make good wine

Yeah, but ONLY rumor ... I can't find much.

2003-2005 were great years for both white and red wines in Napa Valley.

sdbcmr wrote:Yeah, but ONLY rumor ... I can't find much.

Look up twenty rows.
Several of their wines have been featured here and it's the same winery.
My wife loved their sb and we probably went through eight bottles of it last year or the year before.

HeartbreakRidge wrote:My eternal question for Chards - how is the oak?

Hey HeartbreakRidge,

This is Tim from Twenty Rows. We come from the white wine world of Sauvignon Blanc so when we started making a Chardonnay our oak management was a major brain storm. The Chardonnay is lightly oaked. 80% is stainless steel fermented, and 20% barrel fermented. We enjoy the crisp acidity that is preserved in stainless steel fermentation. The acid wakes up the taste buds and gives you apple and even some tropical fruits. You can definitely taste the oak but it is very mellow and has hints of butteriness.

cortot20 wrote:So this is a sub sub label?

Hey Cortot20,

This is Tim of Twenty Rows. Wall is a sub label of Twenty Rows. On the back of the label it reads Cellared and Bottled by Twenty Rows Winery. However, we are excited to showcase it to our Woot friends now because our next vintage will be the 2010 Twenty Rows Chardonnay and will no longer be bottled under the Wall label.

bsevern wrote:These guys.....rumor has it they make good wine

Hey bsevern,

We like to think that these rumors are true. With our Twenty Rows and Wall Cellars wines we like to pride ourselves at making wines with great integrity at very affordable price points.

Cheers,
Tim of Twenty Rows

cortot20 wrote:Look up twenty rows.
Several of their wines have been featured here and it's the same winery.
My wife loved their sb and we probably went through eight bottles of it last year or the year before.

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed our Sauvignon Blanc. We knick named it around here "Napa Valley Gatorade." If you liked the S.B I think you'll like the Chardonnay. We use many of our S.B wine making philosophies when making this Chardonnay.

Cheers,
Tim of Twenty Rows

Hey Wooters,

The is Tim Nuss of Twenty Rows. We've introduced you to our Twenty Rows label and now we gladly introduce you to our Wall Cellars label. Wall Cellars is cellared and bottled by Twenty Rows Winery. Wall Cellars is named after the road that leads you to our Twenty Rows estate hight above the Napa Valley in the Mt. Veeder Appelation.

The Chardonnay is grown on Atlas Peak. It is the mountain just east of the city of Napa. The vineyard blocks where it is sourced from are set upon a beautiful west facing slope and the soil is comprised primarily of volcanic soil.

The wine is 80% stainless steel fermented to preserve its crisp acidity and apple and tropical fruit flavors. 20% of the wine is oak fermented on used French Oak barrels. The barrels add some nice, smooth creaminess and softness to the end of the pallet. We use used oak barrels so less overall oak characteristics are extracted into the wine. We are more concerned with the chemistry of the maloactic fermentation then the actual oak flavors imparted in the wine.

We think that our Wall Cellars Chardonnay is one of the biggest wine steals at it's price points in the entire Napa Valley. The people who have been lucky enough to discover this wine treat it like fight club. They don't talk about it because they like to keep the small amount of production to themselves.

Lastly we are very excited to present it to you know, because when we release our 2010 next Fall; it will be coming out as our 2010 Twenty Rows Chardonnay. We are moving it up our wine hierarchy because we are so proud of the wine. So get it now while it's still at this steal of a price.

Cheers,
Tim Nuss

Excited to taste this chard. Thanks Tim!

In for one

Winery website appears to be broken. So tempted but I think I have to know what kind of deal this is before I pull the trigger.... Any info on the retail price of this wine Tim?

John or Dave, would either of you be interested in any of this? I'm interested, but don't think I need 5 bottles. I would be willing to part with 2 or 3 bottles if I bought it.

It's about time to have some quality whites offered. I purchased the Twenty Rows S. Blanc in october of 2010 and it was memorable and buttery and I am in for at least one woot today. I will see how much space I have, I might get two of them today. I hope they come in time for easter. You know the inlaws and the freak bro/sis in laws are coming down for their pilgrimage and this mama needs a little twenty rows to get her through!!!!!!!!
I just want to say to the makers your wines rock!!!!!!!!!

North316 wrote:John or Dave, would either of you be interested in any of this? I'm interested, but don't think I need 5 bottles. I would be willing to part with 2 or 3 bottles if I bought it.

I'm not a big Chard fan but I'd be willing to take a bottle off your hands if that helps at all.

flowerchild59 wrote:. I purchased the Twenty Rows S. Blanc in october of 2010 and it was memorable and buttery ...

Keeping in mind that I'm easily confused, this statement confuses me in light of what the winery has said.

Butteriness comes from malolactic fermentation correct? Or does it come from MF done in oak? Can you get butteriness from fermentation done in steel tanks?

I (perhaps mistakenly) associate stainless fermentation with bright flavors and a crisp mouthfeel, where the buttery thick feel comes from oak. Since this is only 20% oak treated, I would only expect a hint of butter.

Did I mention I'm easily confused?

yorknh wrote:Keeping in mind that I'm easily confused, this statement confuses me in light of what the winery has said.

Butteriness comes from malolactic fermentation correct? Or does it come from MF done in oak? Can you get butteriness from fermentation done in steel tanks?

I (perhaps mistakenly) associate stainless fermentation with bright flavors and a crisp mouthfeel, where the buttery thick feel comes from oak. Since this is only 20% oak treated, I would only expect a hint of butter.

Did I mention I'm easily confused?

The butter notes are a result of the malolactic fermentation. The amount and degree of butter flavor may change depending on steel vs. oak, but the cause of the butter flavor is the lactic acid. Malolactic fermentation is the process of changing malic acid to lactic acid using bacteria. Lactic acid is the acid found in milk and milk products. Ergo the butter flavor after malolactic fermentation. Wines that have undergone ML have a softer mouth feel, "rounder", buttery, less acidic, less sharp.


Here is a good explanation:
http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/ml.htm

liverman wrote:The butter notes are a result of the malolactic fermentation. The amount and degree of butter flavor may change depending on steel vs. oak, but the cause of the butter flavor is the lactic acid. Malolactic fermentation is the process of changing malic acid to lactic acid using bacteria. Lactic acid is the acid found in milk and milk products. Ergo the butter flavor after malolactic fermentation. Wines that have undergone ML have a softer mouth feel, "rounder", buttery, less acidic, less sharp.

You got me with the buttery-I like buttery

liverman wrote:
Here is a good explanation:
http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/ml.htm

yorknh wrote:

Butteriness comes from malolactic fermentation correct? Or does it come from MF done in oak? Can you get butteriness from fermentation done in steel tanks?

IIRC the oak will give the wine vanilla notes, not buttery ones. So at 20%, IF the barrels were used, there would not be a big vanilla component.

catfishhunters99 wrote:IIRC the oak will give the wine vanilla notes, not buttery ones. So at 20%, IF the barrels were used, there would not be a big vanilla component.

And as I recall, American oak is better known for it's vanilla component than French or other European oaks, but I too am easily confused and forgetful.

IMHO malolactic fermentation is highly overrated in CA. The best chardonnays on the planet are French Chablis and white Burgundy. I'll take dry, crisp and flinty any day over buttery with softer mouth feel. To each his own.

Winedavid39 wrote:Thanks for coming in Tim. Twenty rows is becoming a relied upon fixture here for solid QPR wines. Very glad you are back.

Winedavid! I see that your signature references labrattery.... Is that program starting back up?

Inquiring minds want to know.

North316 wrote:John or Dave, would either of you be interested in any of this? I'm interested, but don't think I need 5 bottles. I would be willing to part with 2 or 3 bottles if I bought it.

Agreed. You should move closer to me in NM so we can start splitting. Or maybe in the next 1.5 - 2 years I will move closer to some wooters that will split when we move.

yorknh wrote:Keeping in mind that I'm easily confused, this statement confuses me in light of what the winery has said.

Butteriness comes from malolactic fermentation correct? Or does it come from MF done in oak? Can you get butteriness from fermentation done in steel tanks?

I (perhaps mistakenly) associate stainless fermentation with bright flavors and a crisp mouthfeel, where the buttery thick feel comes from oak. Since this is only 20% oak treated, I would only expect a hint of butter.

Did I mention I'm easily confused?

I'm also confused by the previous post that the sb was buttery. I was under the impression that sb was not a grape that buttery was considered a positive. Regardless this chard looks interesting and might be nice for a summer wine though five bottles is quite a lot for me. I'm still on the fence on this one.

catfishhunters99 wrote:IIRC the oak will give the wine vanilla notes, not buttery ones. So at 20%, IF the barrels were used, there would not be a big vanilla component.

Actually a I did know that, I think what has confused me is that the whites that I have had that have undergone substantial MF have also tended to be oaky. So perhaps I've erroneously associated oak time (for whites) with MF, and stainless steel with wine that hasn't undergone MF.

Is that totally off the mark, or is it that oak time and MF tend to go hand in hand because they complement each other?

And actually to the point of how this relates to this offering, the winemaker has said they have treated this similar to their SB, but flowerchild commented on it being buttery. So I'm trying to reconcile that comment with the wine being offered today, since they were treated similarly.

Spring is...springing! Time to stock up on some whites for warm weather enjoyment.

I'm in for one.

BTW: MLF takes the tart malic acid (think green apples) that's naturally in the grape and converts it to the softer lactic acid. That's where the buttery characteristic comes in.

I really like the balance of mostly stainless fermentation to keep the Chardonnay grape characteristics but with a touch of softness and a hint of oak. Can't wait to enjoy these.

North316 wrote:John or Dave, would either of you be interested in any of this? I'm interested, but don't think I need 5 bottles. I would be willing to part with 2 or 3 bottles if I bought it.

I just went in on 5 bottles. My wife and I love Twenty Rows wine.

By the way Tim Nuss...We are waiting for the return of your sauv blanc and The Grappler. Please bring them back to Woot soon.

Anyone in NYC up for a split?

Winedavid39 wrote:Thanks for coming in Tim. Twenty rows is becoming a relied upon fixture here for solid QPR wines. Very glad you are back.

We are glad to be back. Thank you for supporting our wines.

ksieczka wrote:Spring is...springing! Time to stock up on some whites for warm weather enjoyment.

I'm in for one.

BTW: MLF takes the tart malic acid (think green apples) that's naturally in the grape and converts it to the softer lactic acid. That's where the buttery characteristic comes in.

I really like the balance of mostly stainless fermentation to keep the Chardonnay grape characteristics but with a touch of softness and a hint of oak. Can't wait to enjoy these.

We truly hope it doesn't disappoint, and look for the Twenty Rows Chardonnay in the future.

Winedavid39 wrote:i find the subject of chardonnay styles very interesting from my perspective. almost every winery we've talked to about chards, it seems in the last couple of years, starts the conversation off by saying something similar, " this isn't an oak butter bomb (insert negative tone), this is a crisp, bergundian..."


the backlash of "oak butter bombs" within the industry is akin to the Merlot backlash.

and i'm not sure why.

We have nothing against Chardonnays that are oaked more than our Wall Cellars. The world of Chardonnay is a world of many different styles and philosophies. We enjoy many Napa Valley Chards as well as White Bergundies with a passion. We stay towards less oak because we truly enjoy the attributes preserved in stainless steel fermentation, and it's closer to our Sauvignon Blanc roots.

Cheers,
Tim of Twenty Rows

bella12977 wrote:
Winedavid! I see that your signature references labrattery.... Is that program starting back up?

Winedavid39 wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know.
I personally believe it will be back relatively soon. very much working on it.

Fingers crossed - I assume we don't have to hit your link and sign up everytime we see your tag line