mommadeb1 wrote:Thanks! As soon as the crush date is decided, I should have a better idea. Can I tell you last min. if I can make it?

Yes. You are welcome to throw out dates too, that's how we decide, when people are most available. This year the 8th is out because of Yom Kippur, and the 15th is out because of prior commitments, and sparky and a few others are busy on the 1st.

How about the 9th or 16th, both Sundays, or.....?

What about PS?

klezman wrote:What about PS?

You mean the varietal? ;)

We used that this last time, and I don't want to use it with the Syrah. What kind of blend would you be interested in with PS?

I've just pm'd everyone a form letter with payment info. If you didn't get one, that's because I'm OMGOMGOMGPONIESOMG PONIES! and can't count. You still have to pay ;), so pm me if you didn't get it.

Just catching up with all the blend talks... And I have to agree with comments about GSM. As much as I like CdP, and despite my fondness for Grenache Rose and TO's Grenache, it seems GSM is a tricky blend to get just right and I don't think we want to go there.

The Syrah-Viognier blend is something that seems to be becoming a standard, so I like the idea of us throwing in a little Mourvedre to make it our own unique twist - that seems to be what we've done well the last two times. Find something that's kind of standard and then say "How can we make this just a little different and more interesting?"

I still haven't had a chance to talk to Wendy about this except in passing - so I am definitely in for a half case for myself, and I will confirm with Wendy for the other half and get payment submitted.

cheron98 wrote:I still haven't had a chance to talk to Wendy about this except in passing - so I am definitely in for a half case for myself, and I will confirm with Wendy for the other half and get payment submitted.

If Wendy decides she doesn't want any, I'll split with you. I probably shouldn't be going for a full case again at this point.

Or if anyone else on the east coast (NY specifically) wants to split a case, let me know.

I'd like to clarify that a GSM blend was not suggested, especially since so many people are not in favor of such. It was primarily Syrah, with a couple boxes at most each of Grenache and Mouvedre.

I'm leaning towards the Syrah-Viognier Blend, or adding in some Mouvedre.

sanity wrote:I'd like to clarify that a GSM blend was not suggested, especially since so many people are not in favor of such. It was primarily Syrah, with a couple boxes at most each of Grenache and Mouvedre.

I'm leaning towards the Syrah-Viognier Blend, or adding in some Mouvedre.

I still prefer cj's suggestion of a super tuscan blend.

Imagine4vr wrote:I still prefer cj's suggestion of a super tuscan blend.

Weren't we discussing at Hash House in May that the next blend should be a Super Tuscan? There haven't really been many voices crying out saying they wanted the Syrah-Viognier option. Kind of feels like the other options that have been thrown out there have been largely ignored.

So far, what's been suggested:

CJ - Super Tuscan (Sangio-based)
Klezman - Sangio or Barbera
HAK - Sangio
Sparky - Cab/PS/Syrah/Malbec, PS/PV
Sanity - Syrah/Grenache/Mourvedre(/Viognier), Syrah/Viognier(/Mourvedre)

Gathered comments on these suggestions:
Klez, HAK, Imagine - support CJ's Sangio-based idea
ddeuddeg - semi-support of SGM
Klez - "OK" with SGM, but not top choice, would prefer MSG (that's bad for you, y'know), ok with SV
CJ - likes the SGM but wants more M, and even more M, and definitely some V. So like SMGV?
sanity - SV 1st choice, likes SMGV
me - I'm ok with SVM, but am intrigued (now looking back through) by the SMGV

So, yeah, after looking at the gathered comments, it appears the group is more interested in playing with the SMGV blend.

This sounds so very, very interesting. Can I get in on a half case? Hopefully I can help out on the other parts!

Yep, we did discuss a Super Tuscan. I'd be OK with a Super Tuscan; which varietals would we choose? That's a pretty broad descriptor.

I was throwing out the Syrah-blend based on my discussion with Charlie re quality of available fruit, estimated harvest, crush time, etc.

Great in-put everyone, let's keep it going.

random122 wrote:This sounds so very, very interesting. Can I get in on a half case? Hopefully I can help out on the other parts!

I've added you to the list and sent you a pm.

sanity wrote:Yep, we did discuss a Super Tuscan. I'd be OK with a Super Tuscan; which varietals would we choose? That's a pretty broad descriptor.

I was throwing out the Syrah-blend based on my discussion with Charlie re quality of available fruit, estimated harvest, crush time, etc.

Great in-put everyone, let's keep it going.

Yeah, given your discussions with Charlie, I'd definitely say let's go with the Syrah-based blend and save the SuperTuscan for a time when Sangio is really showing well. So, as of now, my vote is for the SMGV. I think that could be a really interesting blending.

For the quantities, 14/3/2/1? Just enough V to give it that lovely floral aroma that it's so good at?

Let's see, that would be 70% Syrah, 15% Mourvedre, 10% Grenache, and 5% Viognier.

sanity wrote:Yep, we did discuss a Super Tuscan. I'd be OK with a Super Tuscan; which varietals would we choose? That's a pretty broad descriptor.

I was throwing out the Syrah-blend based on my discussion with Charlie re quality of available fruit, estimated harvest, crush time, etc.

Great in-put everyone, let's keep it going.

What was Charlie's run down on available fruit? Sounds like he's suggesting a late-ripening varietal...or is he saying that most will come in late regardless? With the weather out here being nice and cool/moderate I wouldn't be surprised if the CA grapes are well behind "normal" schedule.

Which appelations are we drawing fruit from, anyway? I think that is a consideration we've largely ignored so far. e.g. I'd be more interested in Anderson Valley Syrah than Paso Robles (not that I assume either of those are options anyway).

For Cat's blend suggestion, I'm actually curious what folks would think of a 10/9/1 M/S/V blend. Although I still like the Super Tuscan idea.

cheron98 wrote:Yeah, given your discussions with Charlie, I'd definitely say let's go with the Syrah-based blend and save the SuperTuscan for a time when Sangio is really showing well. So, as of now, my vote is for the SMGV. I think that could be a really interesting blending.

For the quantities, 14/3/2/1? Just enough V to give it that lovely floral aroma that it's so good at?

Let's see, that would be 70% Syrah, 15% Mourvedre, 10% Grenache, and 5% Viognier.

Sounds interesting, but in what style would this be made? French Hermitage - lower alc, terrior-driven, food friendly? Or Aussie fruit bomb - higher alc, big fruit, sweet-like (but still dry), drink on its own? I know the first Publend went over 17% alcohol, so the potential is there.

If I decide to go in on this, I'll just get 2 or 3 from Sparky, since he said he wants to split his case if you go GSM/SMGV.

klezman wrote:What was Charlie's run down on available fruit? Sounds like he's suggesting a late-ripening varietal...or is he saying that most will come in late regardless? With the weather out here being nice and cool/moderate I wouldn't be surprised if the CA grapes are well behind "normal" schedule.

Which appelations are we drawing fruit from, anyway? I think that is a consideration we've largely ignored so far. e.g. I'd be more interested in Anderson Valley Syrah than Paso Robles (not that I assume either of those are options anyway).

For Cat's blend suggestion, I'm actually curious what folks would think of a 10/9/1 M/S/V blend. Although I still like the Super Tuscan idea.

Yes, according to the trades, and discussion with Charlie, harvest is expected to be a little later this year. My goal is to choose fruit that ripens around the same time, so we don't have some of our fruit sitting in cold storage for weeks longer than other fruit (whether it's in storage in CA or NV).

Almost all of the fruit comes from Suisin Valley.

edit: We don't have a choice with appellation, etc.; Charlie is going to get the best deal that allows him to make a profit and us to make a decent wine.

I'd love to be able to go to a vineyard and source my own fruit and use his or another facility and have more input into how it's made from start to finish. I know that would more costly than our current method.

Here is my 2 cents worth... I like dry and can taste the fruit, not necessarily a fruit bomb, med. tannins... smooth... .... I do like shiraz but am not sure if I know what the M is? I don't like leather or tobacco in my wine..
If this helps any in our selection...

mommadeb1 wrote:Here is my 2 cents worth... I like dry and can taste the fruit, not necessarily a fruit bomb, med. tannins... smooth... .... I do like shiraz but am not sure if I know what the M is? I don't like leather or tobacco in my wine..
If this helps any in our selection...

The M is for Mourvèdre.

Bandied about have been several suggestions, check out Cat's post for a quick poll.

sanity wrote:The M is for Mourvèdre.

Bandied about have been several suggestions, check out Cat's post for a quick poll.

Excuse my newbie question about Mouryedre... I am not too familiar with that one... can anyone enlighten me please?

mommadeb1 wrote:Excuse my newbie question about Mouryedre... I am not too familiar with that one... can anyone enlighten me please?

It's a Rhone grape varietal. Here, lmgtfy!

sanity wrote:It's a Rhone grape varietal. Here, lmgtfy!

Thanks, guess I could have done that!

I guess what I meant was, how would one describe the flavors? I am just not a fan of leather or tobacco or dirt aka earth in my wine

mommadeb1 wrote:Thanks, guess I could have done that!

I guess what I meant was, how would one describe the flavors? I am just not a fan of leather or tobacco or dirt aka earth in my wine

With mouvedre that's exactly what you get, the leather and earth, a little gamey flavour, red fruit flavour and aroma, minus the tobacco.

I know cj and I both enjoy that in our wines, but I don't know that the majority would for our project here. Mouvedre is commonly blended with Syrah (spice and black fruit) and Grenache (purple fruit). By blending SMG, with emphasis on the Syrah, I believe we'd get a wine with some complexity; not too fruit forward, not too gamey, but lots going on with fruit, spice, tannins.

sanity wrote:I'd like to clarify that a GSM blend was not suggested, especially since so many people are not in favor of such. It was primarily Syrah, with a couple boxes at most each of Grenache and Mouvedre.

I'm leaning towards the Syrah-Viognier Blend, or adding in some Mouvedre.

I'd probably still be in for a case of the SV blend, but only 1/2 if Mouvedre thrown in. Something about it just doesn't appeal to me.

sanity wrote:With mouvedre that's exactly what you get, the leather and earth, a little gamey flavour, red fruit flavour and aroma, minus the tobacco.

I know cj and I both enjoy that in our wines, but I don't know that the majority would for our project here. Mouvedre is commonly blended with Syrah (spice and black fruit) and Grenache (purple fruit). By blending SMG, with emphasis on the Syrah, I believe we'd get a wine with some complexity; not too fruit forward, not too gamey, but lots going on with fruit, spice, tannins.

Your descriptions make me pine even more for a Mourvedre-based blend I looked at El Jefe's wines for a quick reference, and Mourvedre-based (2006 @#$@! - 50% M, River of Skulls - 90% M, Parcel 17 - 46% M, Murgatroyd - 32% M and 30% CS) blends are clearly my favourites of his. And that Sir-Ron-Yea we tasted from the tank was amazing as well, but completely different.

Of course, that's all Calaveras fruit, and I don't know the characteristics of Suisun Valley fruit at all. I'm not even entirely sure where it is...a little east of Napa, iirc?

klezman wrote:Your descriptions make me pine even more for a Mourvedre-based blend I looked at El Jefe's wines for a quick reference, and Mourvedre-based (2006 @#$@! - 50% M, River of Skulls - 90% M, Parcel 17 - 46% M, Murgatroyd - 32% M and 30% CS) blends are clearly my favourites of his. And that Sir-Ron-Yea we tasted from the tank was amazing as well, but completely different.

Of course, that's all Calaveras fruit, and I don't know the characteristics of Suisun Valley fruit at all. I'm not even entirely sure where it is...a little east of Napa, iirc?

sigh...I can still taste and smell that Sir-Ron-Yea. My first choice here would be to do the Syrah-Viognier blend. I think.

That's why I enjoy so many of TO's wines, too. They are earthier than many out there, and also have a good fruit structure.

Suisun Valley is south and east, here's a map.

Here are two other sites of interest:
Suisun Valley Vintners & Growers Association

A Suisun Valley Marketing site.

sanity wrote:With mouvedre that's exactly what you get, the leather and earth, a little gamey flavour, red fruit flavour and aroma, minus the tobacco.

I know cj and I both enjoy that in our wines, but I don't know that the majority would for our project here. Mouvedre is commonly blended with Syrah (spice and black fruit) and Grenache (purple fruit). By blending SMG, with emphasis on the Syrah, I believe we'd get a wine with some complexity; not too fruit forward, not too gamey, but lots going on with fruit, spice, tannins.

I'm with you and cj - I prefer more earthy, leather/tobacco then fruity bombs.

Imagine4vr wrote:I'm with you and cj - I prefer more earthy, leather/tobacco then fruity bombs.

Me too. In fact, the Mourvèdre we picked up at Quivira last October at their wine release party is one of my favorite reds, although not as versatile as the Southern Rhone style blends.
That said, I'm in for whatever the consensus decision turns out to be.

Pretty open on blends but fyi on dates, the JT concert is finally set for 10/1 but the lineup is so odd (old school rap) my friend's wife actually isn't that interested this year so we may pick another weekend.

Mourvedre also tends to lend a smoky note to the wine, which normally works really nicely with syrah. Just wave that crispy bacon slice over your glass...

tenuki wrote:Pretty open on blends but fyi on dates, the JT concert is finally set for 10/1 but the lineup is so odd (old school rap) my friend's wife actually isn't that interested this year so we may pick another weekend.

Charlie just phoned. He can promise fruit by October 20 if we need to set a date for people coming from out-of-town. Is anyone interested in coming out October 22?

cjsiege wrote:Mourvedre also tends to lend a smoky note to the wine, which normally works really nicely with syrah. Just wave that crispy bacon slice over your glass...

yum....

Wouldn't it be interesting to blend pinotage and mouvedre and...?

MarkDaSpark wrote:I'd probably still be in for a case of the SV blend, but only 1/2 if Mouvedre thrown in. Something about it just doesn't appeal to me.

I agree. I might want to switch to 1/2 a case if the wine had more Mouvedre... I REALLY don't like drinking dirty leathery tobacco! which is prob. why I am not familiar it... I like the sound of the SV blend... just my 2 cents... but who knows... I am still learning and taste can change!!!

sanity wrote:yum....

Wouldn't it be interesting to blend pinotage and mouvedre and...?

Yes! And...Gamay? I saw that they grow Gamay over there and I also have an affinity for the Crus Beaujolais, which are all Gamay based. Or Pinotage/Mourvedre/Barbera!

I do like the general consensus of taking a "standard" blend and spicing it up with some other off the wall varietal. Syrah-Viognier is very standard (although less so in CA, it seems) but Syrah-Mourvedre-Viognier could be excellent. I'd still vote for 50-45-5, since it appears we get 5% increments in fruit. What would really be excellent is having the ability to taste and adjust as we go! Then we'd need two barrels, I suppose.

klezman wrote:Yes! And...Gamay? I saw that they grow Gamay over there and I also have an affinity for the Crus Beaujolais, which are all Gamay based. Or Pinotage/Mourvedre/Barbera!

I do like the general consensus of taking a "standard" blend and spicing it up with some other off the wall varietal. Syrah-Viognier is very standard (although less so in CA, it seems) but Syrah-Mourvedre-Viognier could be excellent. I'd still vote for 50-45-5, since it appears we get 5% increments in fruit. What would really be excellent is having the ability to taste and adjust as we go! Then we'd need two barrels, I suppose.

Interesting choice. There is a wine, Alamaden pinotage & gamay that has been on my "look for" list for a couple years. Gooogling, I find it, but not in the US. I do think Viognier would be an interesting varietal to mix with pinotage.

We may buy an extra couple boxes of fruit to achieve the balance we want. I did speak with Charlie last week about doing 2 barrels, he agreed to a discount of $100, because he says his prices have gone up 40% this year. If we do this again next year, it will definitely be more than $2400 for the barrel.

How about 11 syrah, 9 mouvedre, 2 viognier? (2 extra boxes of fruit)

sanity wrote:We may buy an extra couple boxes of fruit to achieve the balance we want. I did speak with Charlie last week about doing 2 barrels, he agreed to a discount of $100, because he says his prices have gone up 40% this year. If we do this again next year, it will definitely be more than $2400 for the barrel.

How about 11 syrah, 9 mouvedre, 2 viognier? (2 extra boxes of fruit)

Do we then get to use the extra vino to top up our barrel as we go? Or just bottle a bit extra at the end? Seems like a nice place to start for our bastardized Cote-Rotie style blend.

Why have his prices gone up so much? That's disheartening.

sanity wrote:Interesting choice. There is a wine, Alamaden pinotage & gamay that has been on my "look for" list for a couple years. Gooogling, I find it, but not in the US. I do think Viognier would be an interesting varietal to mix with pinotage.

We may buy an extra couple boxes of fruit to achieve the balance we want. I did speak with Charlie last week about doing 2 barrels, he agreed to a discount of $100, because he says his prices have gone up 40% this year. If we do this again next year, it will definitely be more than $2400 for the barrel.

How about 11 syrah, 9 mouvedre, 2 viognier? (2 extra boxes of fruit)

As the newbie I will go for whatever the majority want. As long as it isn't straight Dirty leather tobacco flavored! Ha Ha. I will stay with a case of whatever is decided on. Oct. 22 looks good for me as of right now.

pm for you sanity.

klezman wrote:Yes! And...Gamay? I saw that they grow Gamay over there and I also have an affinity for the Crus Beaujolais, which are all Gamay based. Or Pinotage/Mourvedre/Barbera!

I do like the general consensus of taking a "standard" blend and spicing it up with some other off the wall varietal. Syrah-Viognier is very standard (although less so in CA, it seems) but Syrah-Mourvedre-Viognier could be excellent. I'd still vote for 50-45-5, since it appears we get 5% increments in fruit. What would really be excellent is having the ability to taste and adjust as we go! Then we'd need two barrels, I suppose.

Not a big fan of the Gamay grape, in general. Beaujolais wines are among my least favorite. Just sayin'.

ddeuddeg wrote:Not a big fan of the Gamay grape, in general. Beaujolais wines are among my least favorite. Just sayin'.

Sorry, we got sidetracked talking about pinotage and blending. ;)

ddeuddeg wrote:Not a big fan of the Gamay grape, in general. Beaujolais wines are among my least favorite. Just sayin'.

Region and village level Beaujolais I agree tend to be uninteresting. Have you ever had the top level Crus Beaujolais, though? Like Morgon, Brouilly, etc? Wines of a different colour compared to the Jadot Beaujolais, or even worse, Beaujolais Nouveaux.

Either way, just saw it on the list of grapes available to us, so thought I'd throw it out there. Never had a CA Gamay, either.