cortot20 wrote:I bought plenty, I will gift it to myself for Xmas. Give your nephew a bottle.

Nice write up and it looks like you guys had some fun. I opened up a 2009 Black Zep. last night and was underwelmed. I don't think these should have been released this early. I'll save my other bottle for a few years down the road.

I typically think most dry reds need to be at least 3 years old before consuming. I've had enough young ones to come to this conclusion. I may just store this one for 6-12 before opening based on the rats. I do have enough other wine to keep me busy in the mean time....

MarkDaSpark wrote:Really depends on how much they made and have left. IIRC, one of the recent Woot Cellars sold out (D'Ontspille?) and hasn't made it to the Woot-Offs.

D'ontspille originally dropped on 10/8, and the reappeared again on 12/5 and 12/24.

mother wrote:I don't buy that.

I keep my really good wines that I plan to keep for many years in a cooler... But I doubt 70 is going to cook your wine in months...

I agree. The most important thing is to avoid significant temperature and humidity fluctuations. A steady 55, relatively humid, is ideal, but a steady 65 or even 70, will not destroy wines in months, or even a few years. What it will do is accelerate the aging process (probably losing some subtlety in the bargain) and mean a shorter life for a wine. A wine that might live to 30 stored in a dark, relatively humid, 55 degree cellar, could be dead at 20 if stored at 70. But, it won't be dead at 10, and, in fact, may be more drinkable at 10 than if it were stored at 55.

The people who most obsess about storage temperature and conditions are the people who sell wine storage stuff.

If you have the money and space for a wine fridge - great, get one. If not, do the best you can. Keeping wine in the woot styrofoam packs (on their sides) isn't a bad idea, because the insulating effect will tend to keep the temperature more stable.

I aoologize for late report. Birthdays and then moving into my new place. and in true Richard fashion, I am posting on my phone, errors and all.

This is pop and pour.
Friend: I love this nose. very cab without being told what it was.

Me: leather, and not much else.

SWMBO: loves the smell.

none of us got fruit. all of us got some funk.

Taste:
Friend: not a fruit bomb. likes it. nice tannins. taste like a cab. a litter green.

me: a little green. mild to moderate tannins. short finish. this is not the style of cab I personally enjoy but I think at $11 shipped, it is good for the style it is. I could see this being a $15 bdx easily.

SWMBO: likes it a lot. taste old world. notice my comment about bdx. I didnt prompted SWMBO at all.

I am not going to buy because this isn't my style. however, at $11, I think it is a good buy and will probably get better in a year or two.

again my friends, I apologize for the late, misspelled, and short rattage

if you like more classical styled cabs, this is a buy,.IMO.

mother wrote:I don't buy that.

I keep my really good wines that I plan to keep for many years in a cooler... But I doubt 70 is going to cook your wine in months...

Yep. Just Google using: keeping wine at 70

Storing Wine

This one indicates if it gets to 70°F, drink within 10 years. But I believe that for each month it's at that temp (or higher), it ages the wine (and not in a good way) as a year or more at the proper temp (45° to 55°F).

If the temperature rises to 70° F, be prepared to drink your red wines within 10 years. Under no circumstances should you store and cellar white wines more than 1-2 years at temperatures above 70° F.

This winery has Storage tips that agree that 70° is a no no for storing.

The comfortable 70°F that is common in most homes today can wreak havoc on wine. An ideal storage temperature ranges between 45°F and 55°F.

kylemittskus wrote:
I aoologize for late report. Birthdays and then moving into my new place. and in true Richard fashion, I am posting on my phone, errors and all.

This is pop and pour.
Friend: I love this nose. very cab without being told what it was.

Me: leather, and not much else.

SWMBO: loves the smell.

none of us got fruit. all of us got some funk.

Taste:
Friend: not a fruit bomb. likes it. nice tannins. taste like a cab. a litter green.

me: a little green. mild to moderate tannins. short finish. this is not the style of cab I personally enjoy but I think at $11 shipped, it is good for the style it is. I could see this being a $15 bdx easily.

SWMBO: likes it a lot. taste old world. notice my comment about bdx. I didnt prompted SWMBO at all.

I am not going to buy because this isn't my style. however, at $11, I think it is a good buy and will probably get better in a year or two.

again my friends, I apologize for the late, misspelled, and short rattage

if you like more classical styled cabs, this is a buy,.IMO.

Can you give me a little more detail please?

Chargerrt500 wrote:D'ontspille originally dropped on 10/8, and the reappeared again on 12/5 and 12/24.

Thus the ? with it. So that wasn't it, which forced me to look. Keep thinking it was last year, but appears maybe I was thinking of 2009.

Appears it was the Woot Cellars Tøøthstejnn - 6 Pack that sold out and hasn't been seen since. 1930 woot sold, so around 965 cases.

MarkDaSpark wrote:

Holy hell Mark, could you possibly seek out sites that haven't been updated in longer? lol

ALL of the sites that come up seem to be referencing the same piece of literature, and none of it is the least bit scientific.

Even if you do believe that 70 is the magic temperature of ruination, those sites say it takes 1-2 years at that temperature.

I still don't really buy it. BTW You really need to get your wine out of seismically active California before it's totally ruined ;)

rpm wrote:I agree. The most important thing is to avoid significant temperature and humidity fluctuations. A steady 55, relatively humid, is ideal, but a steady 65 or even 70, will not destroy wines in months, or even a few years. What it will do is accelerate the aging process (probably losing some subtlety in the bargain) and mean a shorter life for a wine. A wine that might live to 30 stored in a dark, relatively humid, 55 degree cellar, could be dead at 20 if stored at 70. But, it won't be dead at 10, and, in fact, may be more drinkable at 10 than if it were stored at 55.

The people who most obsess about storage temperature and conditions are the people who sell wine storage stuff.

If you have the money and space for a wine fridge - great, get one. If not, do the best you can. Keeping wine in the woot styrofoam packs (on their sides) isn't a bad idea, because the insulating effect will tend to keep the temperature more stable.

Most of what I read indicated dead at 10 if kept at 70°, and from my experience it loses a lot when it hits that temp for a long time (month or more).

MarkDaSpark wrote:But I believe that for each month it's at that temp (or higher), it ages the wine (and not in a good way) as a year or more at the proper temp (45° to 55°F).

So if this Monkey Second Prize needs a few more years, then all I need to do is store it at 70 for a few months and it will be good to go, no?

Or am I not understanding something here?

mother wrote:Holy hell Mark, could you possibly seek out sites that haven't been updated in longer? lol

ALL of the sites that come up seem to be referencing the same piece of literature, and none of it is the least bit scientific.

Even if you do believe that 70 is the magic temperature of ruination, those sites say it takes 1-2 years at that temperature.

I still don't really buy it. BTW You really need to get your wine out of seismically active California before it's totally ruined ;)

My personal experience (which is completely unscientific) has been that storing at room temperature hasn't ruined any of the wines I've had. They have rather, gone just the way rpm described - aging faster, but never "cooked" or overtired way too early.

As I've posted earlier, I no longer cellar my wines for more than around 3 years; when I want older bottles, I pay more for them pre-aged from a few places I trust (I've also received some wonderful gifts). The reason I use a wine fridge is that the temperature in my basement fluctuates wildly during the summer, and sometimes goes way too high. It's an open basement, and I don't want to use an air conditioner all the time either.

On a different note, I just threw a birthday party for by beautiful wife, and guests brought a wide assortment of wines. The guests proceeded to open only the plonk!


edit:

mike808 wrote:So if this Monkey Second Prize needs a few more years, then all I need to do is store it at 70 for a few months and it will be good to go, no?

Or am I not understanding something here?

I don't know if anyone has done a scientific study on the temperature/aging ratio; maybe you can be the guinea pig (rat?). Obviously , some of us disagree on longer-term aging at room temp, but what do you have to lose by trying this at 6 months?

I would lose, when my basement climbed over 90 deg.

mother wrote:Holy hell Mark, could you possibly seek out sites that haven't been updated in longer? lol

ALL of the sites that come up seem to be referencing the same piece of literature, and none of it is the least bit scientific.

Even if you do believe that 70 is the magic temperature of ruination, those sites say it takes 1-2 years at that temperature.

I still don't really buy it. BTW You really need to get your wine out of seismically active California before it's totally ruined ;)

The first link (which I didn't use and should have) has a copyright of 2011. Most of the others don't indicate dates. And other links on that search also have copyrights up thru 2011.


But tell you what. You keep a bottle of 2005 Ty Caton Field Blend Red Caton Vineyard at 70 ° for a year or so (until next year's RPM Tour or Clambake), and I'll do the same, keeping one (well, all of them) in my wine locker. Then let the taste-off begin!!!!

mike808 wrote:So if this Monkey Second Prize needs a few more years, then all I need to do is store it at 70 for a few months and it will be good to go, no?

Or am I not understanding something here?

That would be a good experiment. Not sure how good it would be, but you're welcome to try it.

Try a bottle each month after 4 months at 70° and let us know. Some say it won't hurt it, and some say it will affect parts of it. So experiment and let us know.


All I know is that keeping it at a steady temp is not available in SoCal unless you use your A/C constantly, which is unreliable during the summer months if SCE decides to brown-out your area.

MarkDaSpark wrote:Well, lots of info in the Coolers thread.

Depends on where you are and how hot it gets.

Ideal storage temp is around 55° IIRC for reds, with a little lower for whites/dessert wines. Warmer temps will tend to cook the wines over a period of time. So normal room temp (70°) will ruin a wine after months at that temp.

Also you need to check on the humidity. You don't want too low (dry out the cork) or too high (fungus issues).

So you don't want your wine next to your washer/dryer in the basement. But if you have a cool, medium humidity basement area, that might be fine.

Thank you everyone for the prompt replies and useful information. I do have a basement so it sounds like I will be storing it in my basement for now and on its side which is not something I would have thought of. I am in Chicago, so humidity in the summer can be a bit of a concern, but the basement tends to be a pretty constant temperature. Also, our washer and dryer are up on the second floor so there is no concern there with any extra humidity being put off by those.

I plan on buying a proper storage fridge soon, but it sounds like the basement should suffice for a month or two until I can get around to finding something proper.

Any thoughts on if Monkey 2nd Prize would go well with this cheese?

LSlipetz wrote:Thank you everyone for the prompt replies and useful information. I do have a basement so it sounds like I will be storing it in my basement for now and on its side which is not something I would have thought of. I am in Chicago, so humidity in the summer can be a bit of a concern, but the basement tends to be a pretty constant temperature. Also, our washer and dryer are up on the second floor so there is no concern there with any extra humidity being put off by those.

I plan on buying a proper storage fridge soon, but it sounds like the basement should suffice for a month or two until I can get around to finding something proper.

The main thing is a constant temp and medium humidity, so it sounds like you should be fine.

I have had bottles ruined in my kitchen, which to most is a no-duh moment. My kitchen has a nice 34 bottle built in rack on the opposite side of the kitchen from the stove. But through the pain of opening several cooked bottles I know that temp. fluctuations really kill wines pretty quickly. Since its a built in rack at cupboard height it gets all the hot air from the stove even though there is a ridge in the ceiling that in essence creates a heat well away from the wine.

One day after having the stove on for awhile I decided just to put my hand up near the ceiling above the rack and found that it was really warm, since then I have purchased a secondary rack (24) that fits in the bottom of my closet on the cooler side of my house and a 16 bottle wine fridge for the pricier bottles I want to hold for awhile.

I now only use the kitchen rack for immediate drinkers and wines under $10 a bottle. And I make sure I keep at the most only the bottom half full.

MarkDaSpark wrote:Most of what I read indicated dead at 10 if kept at 70°, and from my experience it loses a lot when it hits that temp for a long time (month or more).

I read that too, but my experience is reflected in what I wrote.

I'm somewhat surprised that this hasn't already sold out given the popularity of the original Monkey Prize....though there is a different winery involved this go-round....I guess it is selling well but an abundant supply was made.

Sorry for the delayed ratting. I tried to post this the first night, but the servers were crazy, and I've been away from my computer since then. Hopefully I can still help with the buying decisions.

The bottom line:

A mellow fruit, mild tannin, $10 Cabernet with a bit of Cab Franc funk thrown in for fun that makes a decent QPR and begs for some dark chocolate to consume alongside it. You can pop some of this wine now and some later, but I wouldn't hold it for more than a couple of years since IMHO this sort of structure doesn't beg for long term storage. This is in a similar wheelhouse to the Wellington Sonoma Cabernet from the mixed-pack woot although with less tart fruit in comparison.



Tasting detail:

One sip poured into the glass, and I've got the tasting wheel ready...


in 'like' at first sip
I got a nose of light cherry, a little pepper, leather, and herb. The first taste was plummy mixed with a bit or herbaciousness funk and mild pepper, this was actually my favorite sip. Surprisingly, the alcohol isn't overwhelming out of the bottle. The tannins are very subtle at this point. The Cab Franc in this blend really stuck with me on the finish.

Absolutely no gunk on the cork:


The remainder of the bottle went through my aerating decanter with the filter in place. As you can see from the pic, this wine left no sediment in the filter:


I didn't invent the rainy day, man. I just own the best umbrella.

This wine was popped post-dinner, so instead of pairing with food, it got paired with one of the best movies ever: "Almost Famous" - the Director's Cut. As we started the movie, we let the Monkey mellow for a bit:


Listen to Tommy with a candle burning, and you'll see your entire future.

Decanting didn't seem to bring out much more in this wine besides mellow out an already mellow wine a bit more. I wasn't able to coax any more fruit out of this one. Still getting some Cab Franc funk out of this which stuck out more to me the more I drank it.


It's all happening!

The more I drank it, the more I wanted some chocolate cake or food to complement the flavors in the wine since the wine by itself got a little dull after a glass.

Time to bust out the Wellington

In preparation for my rattage, I tried to find the most similar bottle to this wine from my cellar and chose the Wellington 2007 Sonoma Cabernet Sauvignon from the Woot mixed case. It's a different vintage than the Monkey's Second Prize, but the blend and price point are somewhat comparable.

The Wellington was treated as a pop and pour, and I'd say these wines are definitely in the same class of wine. The Wellington has a bit more a tart fruit punch with more noticeable fruit in general and the Cab Franc is more subtle. The Monkey's Second Prize is more mellow, less fruit, and a little funky.

My friend who's not much of a wine drinker had a definite preference for the Monkey's Second Prize where I was torn more between the two. Neither would be a favorite, but both are good QPR at near $10.

Conclusion

The Monkey's Second Prize is a nice $10 bottle to open at a Tuesday night dinner or bring over to your neighbors house for a casual get together paired with something to munch on. Hopefully a little bottle age will help blend the flavors a bit more, but I wouldn't be too concerned with hoping for a lot of improvement here.

Is it that hard to make us look cool?

I'd like to thank the Academy, the Woot monkeys, Pedroncelli, and WD for this great ratting honor. I suppose I should also throw a thank you to the new Chief Monkey, Jeff Bezos (now that he owns Woot, he has a 98% stranglehold on my wallet)

Check out my full labratting picture gallery.

Winedavid39 wrote:holy Toledo, that's a doosey.

couple of stitches maybe?

i do not envy you the headache you will have...

Finally the riddle of what causes the red wine headache has been solved.

Corrado wrote:As stated, I don't but it either. Few wine shops keep their inventory in coolers and it sits out at ~70F for months on end. The chemical reactions that cause aging characteristics will occur at an increased pace. I think someone clearly needs to do a double-blind test of the same wine stored at 55F, 65F, and 75F for at least 9 mos.

EDIT: Didn't see the "next page" before I posted. Others said essentially the same thing. I don't think the '05 field blend is the idea choice. Maybe the '08 Racchus or 'TWAS. Something early in the aging cycle.

Well, that was the only wine I saw that I had in common with Mother. If only he would buy more from Woot!

Winedavid39 wrote:holy Toledo, that's a doosey.

couple of stitches maybe?

i do not envy you the headache you will have...

No stitches necessary. Slight cut. More blood would have indicated stitches were needed. I know from past experience (me at an early age and my son).

And luckily no headache. Got ice on it right away (while they moved my wine from the old 32 case locker to a new 48 case locker). Oh no! I just let WD know I have more room. I'm doomed!! Doomed!


Of course, with the new hazard pay ......

jeffandmonica wrote:Agreed, but by the second night 'Twas is a beautiful thing IMHO. I need to try a couple hour decant one of these days when I think that far ahead (it doesn't happen often).

I just had a bottle of 'Twas last night that was opened on Tuesday. I had poured a glass, deemed it too closed, and poured it back into the bottle, Vacu-Vinning it until yesterday (but surely there was some decent aeration from the poured/replaced glass's worth). Yesterday, I poured a glass around 2:00pm, and left it and the open bottle sitting out on the counter. The open glass was finally opening up and ruddy terrific around 9:00pm, and the stuff in the bottle was fantastic around midnight. It really does need that much time.

MarkDaSpark wrote:

Ideal storage temp is around 55° IIRC for reds, with a little lower for whites/dessert wines. Warmer temps will tend to cook the wines over a period of time. So normal room temp (70°) will ruin a wine after months at that temp.

Also you need to check on the humidity. You don't want too low (dry out the cork) or too high (fungus issues).

So you don't want your wine next to your washer/dryer in the basement. But if you have a cool, medium humidity basement area, that might be fine.

The notion of 55 as the ideal temp arises because that's the natural stable temp of the caves in France.

IMHO ... I agree with Mother and say that STABILITY of temperature and humidity is a more desirable trait. Your looking for a spot that gets no direct sunlight stays at the same temp all day and night. You are trying to minimize fluctuations. A few degrees change over the seasons is fine. Cycling 5-10 degrees a couple of times a day is not.

MarkDaSpark wrote:Well, that was the only wine I saw that I had in common with Mother. If only he would buy more from Woot!

One more gargleblaster You're kidding right? lol

MarkDaSpark wrote:Most of what I read indicated dead at 10 if kept at 70°, and from my experience it loses a lot when it hits that temp for a long time (month or more).

Well, my experience is somewhat limited, but my storage "solution" consists of a free-standing rack on the back wall of the bedroom in my basement apartment (that is, it's essentially below ground level, and on the wall closest to earth). We keep the apartment generally around a constant 70 (but occasionally fluctuating between 68 and 72), with the lights usually off in the bedroom, and reasonable humidity. Other than a couple oddly spritzy bottles of Racchus, I've never had any issues with dead or over-aged wine (other than ones which were obviously on their last legs anyway), even those stored for over a year on the rack.

My suspicion is that heartier, younger wines - the Caton Petite Sirahs, Wellington Syrahs, and Keating Malbecs of the world - are able to handle temperatures around 70 with little to no problem. That is, the higher temperature doesn't substantially speed up the transformation of very young, closed wine to middle-aged, expressive wine. However, for lighter, more delicate wines - Rasmussen Pinots and Noceto Sangioveses are the best Woot examples that come to mind - higher temperatures may have slightly more of an effect. Finally, I think the biggest effect 70-range temperatures have is on already mature or close-to-mature wines - the 2001 Corisons, etc. My guess is that for wines at their absolute peak or starting to roll downhill a bit, temperatures around 70 significantly accelerate that deterioration.

In other words, there's not really a direct "one month at 70 = one year at 55" conversion factor, but rather the variance depends on what stage of its life the relevant wine is at. Of course, there's no scientific basis for these thoughts, but as a general rule, I think the more delicate a wine is, the more susceptible it is to "harsher" treatment.

redwinefan wrote:

Conclusion

The Monkey's Second Prize is a nice $10 bottle to open at a Tuesday night dinner or bring over to your neighbors house for a casual get together paired with something to munch on.

That's all I needed to hear (read?) to make my very first Wine.Woot purchase. Of course, the fact that there's a monkey on the label didn't hurt.

Peace and chicken grease.

How close is this wine to the Copa Del Rey Cabernet? It seems rather similar based on the Lab Reports.

Okay, this post is mostly for humor, but I'll keep it nominally on topic by pointing out that it makes a good case for buying Woot Cellars:

I mentioned that our guests opened all the plonk yesterday. One was so galling that I refused to even complete a sniff - a lovely Frey Organic Red Table wine. I just now decided to see if there was anything at CT about it. The humble table wine didn't rate a CT appearance, but their lofty varietals did, so I clicked on the first one - a "2008 Frey Cabernet Sauvignon Organic Wine," and found the following review, which I just had to share:

"Tasted by PIntag on 1/28/2011 & rated 50 points: Easily the worst wine I have ever tasted. The nose and palate reeked of puke and fake, plasticy fruit. I'm amazed that anyone would have the gall to bottle this wine -- they should be ashamed of themselves. Awful, horrid stuff. The five of us could not even stand to smell this."

I'm still chuckling at this. I think they might have had a different definition of "organic" than most vintners do.

MarkDaSpark wrote:No stitches necessary. Slight cut. More blood would have indicated stitches were needed. I know from past experience (me at an early age and my son).

And luckily no headache. Got ice on it right away (while they moved my wine from the old 32 case locker to a new 48 case locker). Oh no! I just let WD know I have more room. I'm doomed!! Doomed!


Of course, with the new hazard pay ......

You are such a wuss. At the OWWT#1 I took 25 stitches in the knee! No hazard pay here either.

NightGhost wrote:... I think they might have had a different definition of "organic" than most vintners do.

Perhaps Monkey 2nd Prize Feces Throwing Organic?

Darnit...if this wine were not in bottles with the Monkey labels, it's be a pass....but I have the feeling I'll be buying some labels before long.


Joe

So we have all the labrat reports we are going to get, I assume.

speedoo wrote:So we have all the labrat reports we are going to get, I assume.

You need more? It's already quite an infestation.

TooOldForThis wrote:I would imagine that getting them to grab the bottles is the easy part....

Gotta love that $10 price point!

mike808 wrote:Any thoughts on if Monkey 2nd Prize would go well with this cheese?

man that's some stinky cheese ;) I hope he hasn't made a habit of that