Boy, would I love to rat this. If it taste anything like an ice wine we are in for a treat.

Just made my very first wine.woot purchase with this one! It sounds delicious!

doradaniels wrote:I live in Santa Cruz, and Bonny Doon is just up the hill.

Correction: they're in Santa Cruz - Ingalls St if I remember correctly. The original winery, which was up the hill, was sold to Beauregard Vineyards some time back.

Of course, if you're referring to Bonny Doon the place, then yeah, it's on fire.

Well I decided to be slightly fiscally responsible and went in for just 1.

Last wooter to woot: tommythecat78

What the heck. I don't have much really good dessert wine, so I'm in for 4 bottles.

Would love to rat this.

imipolex wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Beeswax Vineyard is indeed farmed biodynamically... and it's a shame you'd base your purchasing decision based on that alone. This is a fantastic wine.

I wonder if the wine tastes like honey, because they chop up little honey bees and sprinkle them in the vineyard(kidding)!

Hmmmm, Grenache Blanc. As a dry wine, it's incredibly aromatic, perhaps even moreso than Viognier. One can only imagine the fireworks from a late-harvest version of the grape . . . .

iByron wrote:It's 15% RS (with all of the caveats behind that statement) per the BD store. A typical Sauternes comes in at about 13%. This is not a dessert topping style (see the Shadow Canyon Paeonia at about 27%) but it doesn't have the sugar-mitigating factor of botrytis. You also won't get that "cakey" sensation that's found so often with botrytized wines.

This is good info, thanks! What's the typical range of ABV and TA for a Sauternes?

imipolex wrote:I assume you really want to be asking PetiteSirah that question and not me.

Biodynamics is completely made-up pseudoscience that comes to us from Austrian crackpot Rudolf Steiner. I like to think of it as organic farming + a bunch of made up ridiculousness circa 1920s Austria; it involves all kinds of crazy ranging from burned mice to manure packed in cow horns, much of which is then sprayed around in homeopathic (read: vanishingly small and/or nonexistent) doses.

Some folks are so repulsed by the utter quackery of biodynamics that they don't want to buy anything that was produced following Steiner's proscriptions, and I think that's a shame. Why? Simple: It tends to make good wine... although probably not because you're harnessing super sekrit energies from Gaia but rather because you're forced to farm much more carefully because the margin of error is so tiny if you've made the decision to farm your grapes that way.

Yes, it's crazy. On the other hand, what's in the bottle is what should count, right?

This is an exceptional wine, especially at this price (a few bucks cheaper than wine club member pricing). It's been a while since I've had any, but I have good memories of a rich, beautiful dessert wine with good supporting acidity and a phenomenal florality. I loved it. I suspect most of you would too, even if biodynamics are a big turnoff.

I tend to think that PS's position is more correct and socially responsible. If you don't agree with what the winery does, then you really shouldn't support them financially by buying their wines. It's not just "what's in the bottle", it's how it was created and whether it was done so responsibly. But that's just my two cents.

I wasn't able to surmise from the back-and-forth answers:

Is this wine biodynamically farmed or not?

Vin de paille? VIN DE PAILLE? ON WINE.WOOT?!

JOY!!!!!


My first ever in for TWO!

kylemittskus wrote:I wasn't able to surmise from the back-and-forth answers:

Is this wine biodynamically farmed or not?

To Loweel and anyone else who cares - what difference does it make whether this wine is bd farmed when you know that, as an organization, BD is philosophically supportive of BD farming?

imipolex wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Beeswax Vineyard is indeed farmed biodynamically... and it's a shame you'd base your purchasing decision based on that alone. This is a fantastic wine.

L O L
what I digg is the easy open twist off corks

imipolex wrote:I assume you really want to be asking PetiteSirah that question and not me.

Biodynamics is completely made-up pseudoscience that comes to us from Austrian crackpot Rudolf Steiner. I like to think of it as organic farming + a bunch of made up ridiculousness circa 1920s Austria; it involves all kinds of crazy ranging from burned mice to manure packed in cow horns, much of which is then sprayed around in homeopathic (read: vanishingly small and/or nonexistent) doses.

Some folks are so repulsed by the utter quackery of biodynamics that they don't want to buy anything that was produced following Steiner's proscriptions, and I think that's a shame. Why? Simple: It tends to make good wine... although probably not because you're harnessing super sekrit energies from Gaia but rather because you're forced to farm much more carefully because the margin of error is so tiny if you've made the decision to farm your grapes that way.

Yes, it's crazy. On the other hand, what's in the bottle is what should count, right?

This is an exceptional wine, especially at this price (a few bucks cheaper than wine club member pricing). It's been a while since I've had any, but I have good memories of a rich, beautiful dessert wine with good supporting acidity and a phenomenal florality. I loved it. I suspect most of you would too, even if biodynamics are a big turnoff.

BUT YOU ALL KEEP MISSING THE FACT THAT YOU CAN JUST TWIST OFF THAT CAP AND DRINK THESE BABIES DOWN !!!
REMINDES ME OF MY BOONS FARM DAYS YEEEUUUUMMMMM

EddieAngel333 wrote:BUT YOU ALL KEEP MISSING THE FACT THAT YOU CAN JUST TWIST OFF THAT CAP AND DRINK THESE BABIES DOWN !!!
REMINDES ME OF MY BOONS FARM DAYS YEEEUUUUMMMMM

I see you, baby. That's very nice.

canonizer wrote:
To Loweel and anyone else who cares - what difference does it make whether this wine is bd farmed when you know that, as an organization, BD is philosophically supportive of BD farming?

An interesting question.

At least some wineries are going biodynamic because they believe it will help them sell more, apprently. If enough people boycott the biodynamic wine but continue to buy the more 'traditional' stuff those operations may rethink their approach.

Whether it will have the same effect on true believers like Bonny Doon is debatable.

If they haven't been covered already, what are the winemaker's thoughts on aging? While there was some discussion on it in the last offering's thread, should I expect a wine like this to age differently with the non-cork closure? If so, how?

And for an oddball question, if I'm laying this down for a while and happen to be short on space in my winefridge, can I even store it upright?

So do you drink this as shots? For 12.68oz bottles at $17.50 each, it better be dammmmm good.

BONNY DOON IS ONE OF THE BEST!!!!

Long time wooter first time poster. I had to chime in because I have a wealth of knowledge to divulge. Be sure to read my whole post there's a lot of good info.

First off I would like to say this is a great price. The winery itself only offers deep discounts of this magnitude to large purchases (e.g. 1-11 bottles, save 15% 12-35 bottles, save 20% 36 bottles or more, save 25% off) and you must be a member to get these discounts. Regular price is 20 dollars a bottle for the Angel Paille. I bought 3 sets today.
______________________________________________
An earlier poster asked if Bonny Doon practices Biodynamics, their website indicates:

"Since early 2004, we have practiced strict adherence to Biodynamics..."
______________________________________________
Bonny Doon's wine's are all amazing in their own way, biodynamic or not.

More importantly if you like this particular dessert wine, you should try their "2007 Le Vol Des Anges". Without a doubt LVDA is the best dessert wine I have ever had. I can't stress that enough. I highly recommend you try it. It is 30 dollars a bottle, but you absolutely will regret not trying it. Their website describes it in better detail but LVDA is made from grapes on the same beeswax vineyard. Specifically in 2007 the vineyard was blessed with noble rot "Botrytis" making the LVDA very rich and flavorful with amazing mouthfeel. The Angel Paille will be close in comparison in flavor and similar to LVDA just not as rich. The beeswax aroma is an experience in itself. For the price you cannot go wrong.
______________________________________________
Lastly for those who might not know, Bonny Doon's vineyards are located in Bonny Doon which is currently experiencing a huge wild fire. According to the "Santa Cruz Sentinel" newspaper:
"The Martin Fire, which broke out Wednesday, has yet to touch the Bonny Doon Vineyard tasting room or any of the half dozen vineyards in the Santa Cruz Mountains around Empire Grade Road, Pine Flat Road and Bonny Doon Road, though its come precariously close. "It's gotten really close, close enough," Beauregard said Thursday." Hopefully Bonny Doon manages to avoid crop loss. Good Luck in fighting that fire.

Thanks for reading!

-Nick

canonizer wrote:To Loweel and anyone else who cares - what difference does it make whether this wine is bd farmed when you know that, as an organization, BD is philosophically supportive of BD farming?

Excellent point. Another thing to chew on, what about the non BD winery that sources grapes from a BD vineyard because they're good grapes? If you're gonna do it, go whole hog. The non BD winery is supporting the BD practice by purchasing the grapes so you shouldn't support ANY of their products. Seems like if you're going to feel this strongly you need to find these things out. I wonder how many producers you'd have to cut out?

If I remember right, one of Ty's wines comes from a BD vineyard.

yumitori wrote:At least some wineries are going biodynamic because they believe it will help them sell more, apprently. If enough people boycott the biodynamic wine but continue to buy the more 'traditional' stuff those operations may rethink their approach.

I missed the discussion of biodynamics earlier this week, but am moved to dip my oar in briefly at this juncture.
As religions go, the belief in biodynamics may do less harm than most - after all, at least the organic farming methods incorporated improve biodiversity and do less harm to the environment. The quackery of the beliefs, though, is disturbing. Douglass Smith and Jesus Barquin do a decent job of debunking biodynamics for The Skeptical Inquirer.
While I am generally in favor of agricultural practices that rely less on chemicals and have a smaller impact on the environment, I am decidedly not in favor of encouraging the marketing of debunked pseodoscience. Smith and Barquin stated my position fairly well in the following excerpt from their article:
"...our critical attitude toward the esoteric aspects of biodynamics does not interfere with our appreciation of many of its wines. Many biodynamic winemakers are indeed talented. The problem resides in the extension of disbelief in empirical technique, and in substituting for it beliefs in unscientific practices like astrology and homeopathy, as well as voodoo-style rituals and even 'geo-acupuncture.' We must confront this problem, not just as wine lovers and wine writers, but also as citizens who do not wish to live in, nor present to our children, a society in which pseudoscience and esoteric fantasies are considered reality. Irrational thinking, or reliance on mystical gurus with claims of clairvoyant intuition, does great harm to society. The best research studies to date have not found any distinction between biodynamics and the organic agriculture of which it is a part. The esoterica, it seems, add nothing. And we, as supporters of clarity and rationalism, are dismayed by the disconnect between belief and research. Our hope is that one day, under the clear light of understanding, better-grounded winemakers will dispense with biodynamics for good. Let us raise a glass to reason, and to that day."
So, what do I do when a wine I think I would like is marketed as "biodynamic"? If I lived with the courage of my convictions, I would not buy it on principal. In fact, though, I often do not act consistent with my beliefs. If I think I would like the wine and if it does not appear that I am paying too high a premium for the phony marketing mumbo-jumbo, I would probably go ahead and buy it. I just hope the more vocal, even strident, non-believers will ultimately help turn the tide against what I think is wrong-headed practices.

bhodilee wrote:Excellent point. Another thing to chew on, what about the non BD winery that sources grapes from a BD vineyard because they're good grapes? If you're gonna do it, go whole hog. The non BD winery is supporting the BD practice by purchasing the grapes so you shouldn't support ANY of their products. Seems like if you're going to feel this strongly you need to find these things out. I wonder how many producers you'd have to cut out?

If I remember right, one of Ty's wines comes from a BD vineyard.

I think that's an inversion of how the relationship normally would work. It's too expensive to grow grapes biodynamically unless a winemaker contracted them that way to start. Even RG discussed his contracts for sourcing BD grapes in the previous woot, which was predicated on his desire to make BD wines.

I can only see a non-BD winery buying BD grapes/juice if it becomes available at a huge discount to what the original grower/vintner anticipated collecting.

I have trouble believing that they would notice you voting with your dollars through the purchase of organic or conventionally (l'sigh) grown grapes when you're theoretically still buying their sauce.

canonizer wrote:I think that's an inversion of how the relationship normally would work. It's too expensive to grow grapes biodynamically unless a winemaker contracted them that way to start. Even RG discussed his contracts for sourcing BD grapes in the previous woot, which was predicated on his desire to make BD wines.

I can only see a non-BD winery buying BD grapes/juice if it becomes available at a huge discount to what the original grower/vintner anticipated collecting.

Premium grapes prices mean premium bottle prices though so while unusual I'm sure it does happen. If you don't have your own vineyard and you're buying, it may be worthwhile to you to buy from a respected vineyard and pay that premium for your flagship wine. Plus you can stick BD on the bottle and ask for even more and you didn't have to do anything but buy the grape, even if you think it's poppycock.

yumitori wrote:... At least some wineries are going biodynamic because they believe it will help them sell more ...

I find this logic incredibly hard to swallow.

Considering the wine makers that I've come to know are doing what they do because they are staunch believers in themselves, how they approach things, how they learn things, and their work habits. I can't think of one non-BD wine maker that would look at BD practices and say to themselves "Sure, I can fill a few animal horns with dung and plant them during a full moon if it helps me sell more wine".

I just can't picture any wine maker having that conversation with themselves. These are people that step into the arena and give it their best shot in order to be judged by the critics and buying public. That takes some cahones my friend, and I respect every one of them for doing it (even if I don't happen to enjoy or buy their wines). This is not an easily swayed personality type.

I just cannot see "marketing strategy" trumping the DNA that causes a wine maker to become a wine maker in the first place.

Now, if they see some logic/benefit/satisfaction in BD practices, then I can see why they might change over. But for pure marketing purposes? Just can't see it.

LmaO
NOT ONLY ARE THESE TWIST OFFS !!!
BUT.. THESE ARE HALF BOTTLES
Condition: 375ml Dessert
SO IN REALITY THIS IS $35 DOLLARS A BOTTLE

I've had Bouteille Call by Bonny Doon before and really enjoyed it...but probably the only similarity between the two is being desert wines...and the wine maker.

I'm thinking positive thoughts for all the folks who live in the namesake of this winery. I've got a friend who evacuated his wife and daughter already.

dayoff53 wrote:I missed the discussion of biodynamics earlier this week, but am moved to dip my oar in briefly at this juncture.
As religions go, the belief in biodynamics may do less harm than most - after all, at least the organic farming methods incorporated improve biodiversity and do less harm to the environment.

This may not be true though!!! Organic foods may not be good for the enviroment overall. It takes 2x as much land to farm "organically" and some (20%) of organic food comes from China, and China is consistently killing the environment. I tend towards cynicism, but it just bothers me when people make blanket statements without taking into account all the factors.

EddieAngel333 wrote:LmaO
NOT ONLY ARE THESE TWIST OFFS !!!
BUT.. THESE ARE HALF BOTTLES
Condition: 375ml Dessert
SO IN REALITY THIS IS $35 DOLLARS A BOTTLE

This ain't Boone's Farm.

gcdyersb wrote:This ain't Boone's Farm.

What?! I'm outta here!!!

EddieAngel333 wrote:LmaO
NOT ONLY ARE THESE TWIST OFFS !!!
BUT.. THESE ARE HALF BOTTLES
Condition: 375ml Dessert
SO IN REALITY THIS IS $35 DOLLARS A BOTTLE

As far as the twist off debate goes, I purchased the Peaonia desert wine Woot offering a while back, and the super-wax coat they put on that bottle was a royal pain you-know-where to remove! In my opinion, a twist-off in that case would have added more to the product, and the wax/cork seal really detracted from its enjoyment.

yumitori wrote:An interesting question.

At least some wineries are going biodynamic because they believe it will help them sell more, apprently. If enough people boycott the biodynamic wine but continue to buy the more 'traditional' stuff those operations may rethink their approach.

Whether it will have the same effect on true believers like Bonny Doon is debatable.

This raises another interesting question. to those that shun BioD as marketing, do you also shun wineries that use other forms of marketing that artificially raise the price of wine? if not, what's the difference?

burrnini wrote:This raises another interesting question. to those that shun BioD as marketing, do you also shun wineries that use other forms of marketing that artificially raise the price of wine? if not, what's the difference?

For me, the difference is the "science" behind biodynamics. I have this problem where I hate illogical things. I can't stand people to believe things that are wrong. I know it's none of my business, but it bothers me soooo much. So, that's why I dislike biodynamics so much. It is a belief in something that changes the way they make and market the wine. And that something defies both science and logic.

nickels84 wrote:"The Martin Fire, which broke out Wednesday, has yet to touch the Bonny Doon Vineyard tasting room or any of the half dozen vineyards in the Santa Cruz Mountains around Empire Grade Road, Pine Flat Road and Bonny Doon Road, though it's come precariously close."

That quote is actually from a 2008 article about last year's Bonny Doon wildfires. Bonny Doon (the winery) has since moved to Santa Cruz proper and they don't (I believe) have any vineyards up by Bonny Doon (the town).

BTW, the Ryan Beauregard quoted in that article one of the Beauregards whose Beauregard Vineyards now occupy the original Bonny Doon tasting room in Bonny Doon (the town).

MSNBC has an unsettling picture of smoke encroaching on a vineyard - this can't be good for local winemakers. As Victorian winemakers know from bitter experience, wildfires can ruin your crop with off flavors even if your vines aren't burned. I'm really bummed to see this.

INTLGerard wrote:One must sacrifice many grapes to achieve this style of wine. In Hermitage, Vin de Paille (made from Marsanne) can command $150 - $300 per bottle! OK, this is not Hermitage, but nonetheless is an excellent opportunity for many to try a style of wine that is rarely seen, is hard to find and for most, unaffordable. Also, the grapes are sourced from Arroyo Seco which is a highly acclaimed AVA in Monterey. Rhone varietals have been receiving excellent praise from this region. Tablas Creek has also makes some fine Vin de Paille which is also a blended version, but not at this price.

To put the price into perspective, from Tablas as a VINsider (Wine Club), all of them 375ml:

• Vin de Paille 2005 - $52.00 -
  (34% Roussanne, 29% Grenache Blanc, 24% Viognier, 13% Marsanne) approx. 17.4% RS
  
• Vin de Paille Quintessence 2006 - $68.00 - (100% Roussanne ) approx. 28.0% RS
  
• Vin de Paille Sacrerouge 2006 - $36.00 - - (100% Mourvedre) approx. 12.4% RS
  

Woody1 wrote:So do you drink this as shots?

Of course not. That's absurd. I mean really, are you trying to add to this conversation or just fill up the boards? Everyone knows you drink it out of a wine bong.

andyduncan wrote:Of course not. That's absurd. I mean really, are you trying to add to this conversation or just fill up the boards? Everyone knows you drink it out of a wine bong.

I think we've found the theme for our next wine.woot "tasting"...

afranke wrote:I think we've found the theme for our next wine.woot "tasting"...

I still want to rock your wine pong game one of these days.

andyduncan wrote:Of course not. That's absurd. I mean really, are you trying to add to this conversation or just fill up the boards? Everyone knows you drink it out of a wine bong.

These crackpots have to do all the high-fiving right away, because once the wine kicks in, they'll be out of commission.