mopsie2002


quality posts: 4 Private Messages mopsie2002
Krugsters wrote:About a month or so after the twins come out my house is gonna be the place to be.
I am going on such a bender and opening great bottles due to the fact I've had such little wine for so long.

PS-Will trade wine for babysitting.



Keep in mind you're not supposed to drink while breast-feeding, either....

Oregonian through and through <3...even if I call North Carolina my home now.

jhudelson


quality posts: 3 Private Messages jhudelson

Okay y'all. I'm not quite sure who to blame for this because so many of you have contributed, but I just broke our wine budget.

My girl-twirl (love of my life, wonderous woman) just told me we had one of those yesterday when I told her I was about to buy more wine.

This is my 3rd Wine Woot buy. First was the Roessler Pinot Trio. Wow was that good! Next was the Mandolina case (it hasn't even arrived yet). And now, here we go with the Noceto. Can't wait to consume. Budgets are for whimps anyways, says I !!!!

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Temporary thread Hijack for tonight's very first Friday's Petite Fetê. Explanation below in quotes .....

Petite Fetê Friday (3/13/09) --- PolarBear on Crutches Attack on Friday the 13th


Okay. Not the grand blowout that Judy has scheduled, but our mini-virtual drinking thread. Compare what you are drinking with everyone else!

For our first Friday's Petite Fetê theme, we are celebrating PolarBear's successful surgery (and anyone else's this week). Thus we won't need to open those Woot EHP bottles of ours to fend him off, since he is none too mobile.

So post what you are enjoying this fine March Friday the 13!

Early for me on the Best Coast, so I'll pop in later .....



So head on over for the virtual tasting ......


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

txisheaven


quality posts: 0 Private Messages txisheaven
Krugsters wrote:Clearly illustrates the reason why I'm willing to trip over other people's wine boxes for babysitting.

Are you a fraternal or identical twin?



Fraternal-I have a twin brother. We're alike in many ways, yet very different in others. But above all we are the best of friends. I think being a twin is one of the greatest things that has happened to me

HitAnyKey42


quality posts: 29 Private Messages HitAnyKey42
Neuse101 wrote:In for three.


Neuse202 wrote:And so am I.



Classic! I love it, especially since you got both posts in a row. lol

My Cellar
In a Glorious Marriage.Woot with cheron98
NYC Tastings

subinsignia


quality posts: 9 Private Messages subinsignia

Here are my winery notes. Pardon the typos.

Wednesday, March 11, 2009

Well, Sonoma to Plymouth is two hours of driving but it was worth it as the first ever Noceto Winemaker’s dinner was that night at Taste. I went back to the bakery from Tuesday and picked up two fantastic boxes of baked goods and awaited the arrivial of the relatives and friends. We had coffee and baked goods as a tailgate and on the trip to Amador. I took Hwy 50 from Sac and then got off at the exit for Latrobe Road. We were taking that through the rolling hills to Old Sacramento Road, but the sign was down and we went to Hwy 16 then 49 into Plymouth. No bother at all. I recommend Latrobe to Old Sac Road to go into Plymouth. It’s better and more scenic than Hwys 16 and 49.

We drove out immediately to Noceto. I had hoped for an early start and sneaking into Dobra Zemlja’s quickly first, but it was too much to ask for. We got to Noceto at 11 as planned and went into the Tasting room. Bobby, the middle child of Jim and Suzy Gullett, was waiting and asked as I walked in, “Are you the Steve Jones from Cellar Tracker and the subinsignia guy from Woot?” I answered warily, “Well, it depends what I wrote.” We all got a chuckle and Bobby poured us a Pinot Grigio as he called Kevin O’Neil who was to be our guide. We got to talking about the new PG and also sampled the Rosato as Kevin made his way to the Tasting Room. We took our glasses as he arrived and made our way out into the vineyard. Kevin gave us a tour of these classic grape vines as we marched our way up to the winery. What an education in grapes! We talked bout the vines, water retention, the phyloxeria in the neighbors’ grapes that caused replanting, harvesting, crush, pruning, etc, etc. It was really fun to listen and ask questions. As we got to the winery, Kevin described the crush and fermentation processes in detail. My family and friends we enthralled. And then we got into the barrel room.

Kevin got out the wine thief and looked for wine for us to sample.
 2008 Rick Johnson northern block. It was rosey and fruity while the second sample was dark and closed; the second was from the South vineyard, right next door. There was a very striking contrast. This is the sangio that goes into the Reward Ranch bottling.
 2008 Noce Knoll was next. Dark and supple, this huge wine is a great one made in the tradition of its’ Brunello cousins. It is going to be a great one!
 2007 Rick Johnson blended wine was sampled next, with a nice nutty aroma and beautiful flavors.
 2007 Dos Oakies barrel was next, another intense, beautiful great big wine.
 2007 Hillside was elegant in its’ youth. Kevin commented he felt this Hillside block made wines that would age like fine Pinot Noirs.
 2007 OGP Zin was the next barrel, actually three barrels. Here he wanted to demonstrate variation between barrels. The first was deep and complex. The second was all fruit while the third was in between. He put the first in with the third remaining in our glasses and the wine transformed into something even better. Then the second went in with the other two and all 8 of us said, “Wow!” Surely no scientific but certainly close to that and fun.
 2008 sangio from Hollister, CA, a new component to the Normale. It is very close in fruitiness but lacked the spice that comes from some Noceto blocks. That will be factored in when bottled in a just over a year or so.

So we made our way after this back to the tasting room. We were a little in awe at this point but we were treated very well due to the Gullett’s generosity. So here are my tasting room notes:
 2008 Pinot Grigio. Intense, fruity, rich. A spectacular addition to the line. 88+ points.
 2007 Rosato di Sangiovese. Bright and rosey colored, the sangio flavor comes through a perfect summer quencher. 87 points.
 NY Nutz! Red Wine. Barbera and sangiovese blended into an Itlainesque style of every day wine. Perfect for quaffing. $99 a case for Big Nut members- what a deal. 87 points.
 2006 Noceto Regular “Normale” Sangiovese. Bright ripe cherries and musky earth with good hints of spice make the 2006 a winner and perhaps the best regular bottling I’ve had. This is a winner. 89-90 points.
 2006 Misto Sangiovese. The chianti field blend, with malvasia and trebbiano white grapes mixed in. What a great little wine with complexity. Lots of the Hillside block in this one. Beautiful and truly in a chianti style! 90 points.
 2006 Hillside Sangiovese. Soft, spicy and elegant. A beautiful rosiness along with their trademark sangio flavors. 91+ points.
 2006 Reward Ranch Sangiovese. Rich, dark, fruity. Exceptional wine. 91 points.
 2006 Riserva Sangiovese. Beuatiful juice. A wine that is musical in it’s rich yet subtle flavors. 91+ points.
 2006 Dos Oakies Sangiovese. Soft but intense. A super and ig sangio that was truly amazing. 92+ points.
 2006 Marmellata Sangiovese. Named for marmalade in Italian. This is hugely fruit forward and flavorful. I always love this and the Dos Oakies. 92 points.
 2005 Linsteadt Barbera. A nice barb that is drinking well and flavorful. 89 points.
 2006 Lindsteadt Barbera. Another wow wine. Darker, richer, more intense. A really nice barb! 92 points.
 2006 OGP Zinfandel. Better than the 2004, too. Big, luscious, wonderful wine. 93+ points.
 2006 Mistura 180 Degrees Selection. Now Petite Siurah and Alicante BOuschet make up 55% of this wine to make the flavors more recognizable, but the 45% Portuguese varietals are always fun and interesting. Dark, brooding, interesting. Great fruitiness and flavors. 91 points.
 Almirante Port. Named by a fellow Big Nut, this “Admiral” of ports is truly great. 92 points. A tanwy is being aged up the barrel, too. Woowee!
 2006 Noce Knoll. We missed this somehow and went back. It is not released and not ready yet. Dark and brooding, the flavors are not settled. No score yet.
 2008 Frivolo. If you don’t like this moscato then you would have to be dead. Flavorful light and just fantastic. We drank the 2007 for our toast at our wedding last year. 89+ points.

I wanted to go back and retaste but we were starved as it was after 2 PM by now! What great hospitality. We were really humbled by the Noceto folks. They spent over 3 hours educating us and allowing use to get a truly inside view of the winery. Many thanks to them!

Steve Jones

subinsignia


quality posts: 9 Private Messages subinsignia

A note on scores. I can be harsh on the high end. I've never had a wine I scored over 95 in my life I think.

Steve Jones

RustyF


quality posts: 11 Private Messages RustyF
INTLGerard wrote:Interesting that your journey began around the same time that Antinori came to Atlas Peak which some credit with revitalizing interest in producing Sangiovese in California. I’ve read that Antinori reported having a challenging time of it with Sangiovese early on and that many growers still share the sentiment that it requires too much attention in the vineyards. I remember being in Napa in the mid 90’s when it looked as though Sangiovese was starting to come into its own but progress in achieving consistent quality over time has yet to be seen. By all accounts here, it appears you have had very good success with Sangiovese over the years. Maybe you can touch on the early years and any challenges you’ve faced to achieve the level of quality others strive for. The loyal following you have developed here is a testament to that.



Maybe I can help out here, Sangiovese is a big challenge to grow. Jim and Suzy did there there homework in the early years over in Italy and aslo here talking to everyone that they could for advice as far as what clones to plant and also what root stock. I have been with Jim and Suzy for ten years I have had the pleasure or displeasure in being involved with the vineyard, after all that is where all the wine starts our 2009 Harvest has started kind of we have started to prune and with that that is the start of the new growing season.Sangiovese when it is young loves to grow and produce a huge crop 5-8 tons per acre or more depending on the soil.
In the early 90's I remember driving buy and seeing over 1/2 the crop being dropped on the ground, but as the vines mature they start to self regulate themselves we have to be carefull of how we prune and also how much fertilzer we give them and water too. We mow the rows instead of cultivating to create compitition for the vines. Our vine spaceing ranges from 9'x3' to 9'x6'. Our newest vineyard was planted in 1999 and is finally it is coming into it own. We still have to watch crop loads 2005 was a huge year and we had to thin a bunch. In other years we have to selected thining we might take the wings of the buches off or we might have to thin too 2 bunches per cane other words it is alot of hands on attention. we try to farm 3 tons per acre not to say you cannot do more but our soil will not handle it. We get some sangiovese from a vineyard in Holister that can handle 5 tons per acre easy it all depends on the soil. Sangiovese is very sight specific grape it will grow about anywhere but you might not liken what it produces. In farming and making wine there is no recipe just guidelines you have to be able adapt to to the year as it developes if you have been to the winery lately you will have seen that we cultivated every other row, the reason for that is lack of rain fall from the last 2 years and the way it looks we might be a bit short this year, the reason for this is to reduce the compitition or get rid of the grass so the vines can get the water if we see that we are getting the proper rain fall we will switch back to mowning again.
kind of a long respone but it is tough to explain everything I cannot type fast enough.

subinsignia


quality posts: 9 Private Messages subinsignia

Rusty,

Kevin mentioned the rows at half spacing produce about half that of the full spacing, so it was pretty much the same yield no matter what you do with spacing. I guess there is an ultimate spacing so big that things will not matter much. Finding that is probably not the point of experimenting. Smaller spacing would be good, but if it is linear who cares, I guess.

Steve Jones

RustyF


quality posts: 11 Private Messages RustyF
subinsignia wrote:Rusty,

Kevin mentioned the rows at half spacing produce about half that of the full spacing, so it was pretty much the same yield no matter what you do with spacing. I guess there is an ultimate spacing so big that things will not matter much. Finding that is probably not the point of experimenting. Smaller spacing would be good, but if it is linear who cares, I guess.



That experiment happened with having bought to many Vines oops, But what we found out is that planting them at 9'x3' or closer does not make a differnce but if you larger then 9'x'6 say 10'x10 or even 10'x9' you will get vines out of control.

foobarski


quality posts: 2 Private Messages foobarski

OK, I'm definitely not thinking clearly here ...

I just today picked up from the UPS depot nine bottles of the Trinitas. And in the pipeline are 6 more bottles of Corison, followed closely by 12 bottles of Mandolina.

And yet ... having gone in for two of the previous Noceto offering, and being QUITE happy with the results, I've just gone and pushed the "I want 3" button on the current offering.

Three cases of wine in less than three weeks. Eep.

"Is there anything a man don't stand to lose, when the devil wants to take it all away?
Cherish well your thoughts, and keep a tight grip on your booze.
Cause thinkin' and drinkin' are all I have today."
-- John Perry Barlow / Bob Weir ("Mexicali Blues")

hardground


quality posts: 2 Private Messages hardground

Faux-rat follow-up:
Drank the rest of the bottle tonight. That's 24 hours later (in the fridge, brought to room temp for an hour). This wine is now singing. Excellent balance. A little fruity, earthy, spicy, with very smooth tannins. I'm looking forward to adding 3 more bottles of the normale to my collection and trying the riservas.

Thanks to Jim and Suzy.

Why is there so much wine left at the end of my money?

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
HitAnyKey42 wrote:Jim, let me reiterate 10-fold what everyone else has said about your participation this offering. All of you actually. Don’t think we’ve ever had three people from a winery chiming in during the same offering. That Noceto offering in Dec 07 was the very first offering on W.W that I went in for more than 2 sets. And for that one I was originally in for 1 set, then because of the winery participation and high praises from everyone I tried to up it to 3 but the order was already being processed. So I gifted myself another 3, and in actually was in for 4 sets for the first time. I realized I haven’t tried any of the Riserva’s from that offering yet (though I plan to very soon), but I’ve loved every bottle of the regular Sangio I’ve had.
I shouldn’t even have been buying this week as I really have too much wine (Gasp! I know that’s blasphemy! ), but just couldn’t not get any. I’m glad I did so as soon as the offering came out, because if I saw all the stuff you and others have been saying today then I’d surely be going in for 3 and my cellar and wallet can’t handle that right now.


Thank you for your kind comments.
Jim

kylemittskus


quality posts: 232 Private Messages kylemittskus
foobarski wrote:OK, I'm definitely not thinking clearly here ...

I just today picked up from the UPS depot nine bottles of the Trinitas. And in the pipeline are 6 more bottles of Corison, followed closely by 12 bottles of Mandolina.

And yet ... having gone in for two of the previous Noceto offering, and being QUITE happy with the results, I've just gone and pushed the "I want 3" button on the current offering.

Three cases of wine in less than three weeks. Eep.



AMAZING!!!!!

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
INTLGerard wrote:Interesting that your journey began around the same time that Antinori came to Atlas Peak which some credit with revitalizing interest in producing Sangiovese in California. I’ve read that Antinori reported having a challenging time of it with Sangiovese early on and that many growers still share the sentiment that it requires too much attention in the vineyards. I remember being in Napa in the mid 90’s when it looked as though Sangiovese was starting to come into its own but progress in achieving consistent quality over time has yet to be seen. By all accounts here, it appears you have had very good success with Sangiovese over the years. Maybe you can touch on the early years and any challenges you’ve faced to achieve the level of quality others strive for. The loyal following you have developed here is a testament to that.


Ah, another of Jim's perspective treatises with more information than anyone cares to know.
We, Atlas Peak, and Robert Pepi all started within a year or so of each other. To some degree, most give those three credit for the revival of Sangiovese in California. In fact, Caprone in Paso Robles was ahead of all of us, bottling wine labelled as Brunello from the cuttings at our neighbor, Montevina. Alceo di Napoli, late founder and owner of Castello dei Rampola, smuggled the cuttings over in a brief case for Cary Gott, soon to be famous winemaker then at Montevina. Most of Caprone's Brunello was sold at Trader Joe's throughout California until recently. Cuttings from these 9 Sangiovese Grosso/Brunello vines at Montevina from the winter of 1985-6 is what Suzy and I propogated at our Bay Area home to get us started.)
Anyhow, both Atlas Peak and Robert Pepi were able to secure Brunello cuttings from different sources. Pepi's came from Biondi Sante and, I'm told, Atlas Peak's came from Il Pioggione. We were able to get cuttings from Isole e Olena, a top Chianti Classico producer. At about the same time or slightly later, another very small Napa producer got
IeO cuttings. Atlas Peak and Pepi grafted their buds onto existing vines; we first grew a number of vines on their own roots (no rootstock) from which we harvested cuttings for grafting onto rootstock for planting in 1988. This put Atlas Peak and Pepi a vintage or two ahead of Noceto. We discarded a tiny, first 1989 vintage, while Atlas Peak and Pepi put commercial wine on market with some fanfare. Our 1989 vintage was made at Santino by Scott Harvey; everyone stopped to sample the one barrel, which was topped with Barbera. Soon it was oxidized beyond reason and bore little resimblance to Sangiovese. I[m pretty sure our compatriots had a first discard vintage, also. Scott made our first commercial vintage 110 cases for 1990, as well as the next four vintages.
Bob Pepi, son of Robert, was two years behind me at Pomona College. By chance we knew each other from the football team -- he played guard and I was a statistician. We swapped Brunello buds. Our Pepi is bottled as Marmellata and the Il Pioggione as Dos Oakies -- we used to have two gorgeous, ancient oaks. One fell in January 2007!
Anyhow, over time Napa proved a difficult place for Sangiovese. I believe economics are a big part: a winery can grow and make a lot more Cabernet per acre for 1.5-3 times the bottle price than Sangiovese in Napa Valley. It's very site specific in character, if not quality. Crop management is critical; we farm to 7-8 pounds of fruit per vine -- that's just over 3 tons/acre. Further, Sangiovese has proven as hard to make as to grow. It requires gentle care to preserve its floral aspects and feminine flavors. It's that way in Italy, too.
So, why struggle for less $$s for Sangiovese over world class, $$$ Cabernet? I also believe elevation has some impact: most of the Chianti and Brunello regions are 300-600 meters. That's 1000-1800 feet -- ah ha, our elevation is 1500 feet and that fits
So, a few Napa producers produce some Sangiovese for the restaurant trade and their wine clubs.
Paso Robles and nearby appellations have begun to produce significant Sangioveses. Most, including some otherwise excellent wines, lack much Italian character for my taste. Why make an odd variety without showing off its uniqueness? (Despite the absolute strength of my view on this, the counter argument is not without some validity.)
But I think the future for Sangiovese is for a somewhat warm regions with poor soils and mostly cool nights. Some elevation helps, too. This matches much of the Foothills.
Time will tell.
Jim

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto

Also, I understand the vines at Atlas Peak have been budded back to Cabernet. I'm sad that has occurred.
Jim

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto

Further, Cathy Corison, whose wine several of you appeared to "woot," also went to Pomona College, although somewhat after Bob Pepi and me.

SuzyGullett


quality posts: 5 Private Messages SuzyGullett
skout23 wrote:ha! July 4th 2007, Really hot day. I happened to be at this vineyard, with a small group of friends avoiding the normal 4th of July events. Had a blast with some friends, checking out various vineyards in Amador County. As we were leaving Vino Noceto, we noticed a small open flame on a wood pile dangerously close to a large gas tank. We put out the fire with bucket that was nearby and a water hose. We saved the day. Also loved the wine

Cheers,
Scott



Scott,
I certainly remember you! Cool, calm & collected while I freaked out. Thank you for identifying yourself. I had no idea you were a wooter.
Suzy

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
txmusicman49 wrote:Jim did you ever consider bagging and selling the chips on Woot as a side deal? I'm sure ?WD would help with shipping costs...



Sort of. We haven't successfully calculated the Workers' Compensation impact of running a chipper or a saw to make the chips to sell.
Maybe Woot has an insurance program?
Ah, yes, the opportunities for a small, integrated business.
Jim

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
pengu1n wrote:Glad you used recent pricing too. It is even a better deal when you consider that when it first comes out the Riserva is $24 a bottle. jwhite6114 used the sale price that was offered not too long ago which is probably the correct comparison to use.

Also, for those who love Zinfandel, Noceto makes an OGP Zin that is probably my favorite wine of all time. Waiting until next year when the 2007 are released to see how they turned out and may get a few magnums for my daughter's birth year.



The 2007 OGP will be out next April. I suggest you not wait too long if you want it. It appears our OGP Zin is now in big demand. We sold out of the 2005 last year, so have a several months hiatus on it -- a first for the wine. Also, I believe the 2006 and 2007 wines are especially good across the board, the OGP Zin's included.
Jim

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
pengu1n wrote:Wanted to clarify what I mean by harsh. For those who have had Noceto, they can all attest to the smoothness and balance of the wine.

Backstory....
The 2006 Sangiovese came out last Sept and I was in Livermore for work so Suzy (owner) let me drive out pick up my club case a month early. My post in the forums about the Noceto Visit

And Noceto Pictures

Anyways, back to harshness. I waited a few weeks after getting home and was so excited that I had a case before anyone and I had to try it out. Great ruby color to the wine, great nose, but when I took a sip, WOW, sour cherries! And not much more. The wine was very very tart, and I was pretty disappointed. Figuring it needed time to develop, I let it sit until just recently (few weeks ago). Now it has a much smoother mouthfeel and is drinkable without that mouth puckering tartness. I may even let it sit a few more months before trying again.
Guess it's one of the benefits of having a case, you can try it at different stages to find the sweet spot. I don't think it's there yet, but it is becoming a good wine.

Hopefully Jim and Suzy don't cancel my Big Nut membership because of this writeup.
If only they would have had the Frivolo or Nutz wine in this, I would have gotten some more just to try something I haven't had from them.

-Pengu1n



Our style of Sangiovese is delicate, feminine, and complex. Thus, it often doesn't travel well. In fact, it is very subject to bottle shock. Thus, the Noceto or Normale Sangiovese is bottle aged for 6 months before release, the Riserva line of wines including the OGP Zin at least 10 months. Thus, if you can, wait a couple weeks before popping. Or, if you can't, open it and let it sit even an hour or two before trying. I know that can be hard, but. . . .
Jim

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
canonizer wrote:Had a delightful Estancia Sangiovese from 1994/alexander valley last weekend. Really enjoyed the last offering and, while I like zin, I'm not sorry this is only sangiovese.

Could you discuss old world/new world "issue" w/r/t sangiovese? Does it fly a little bit less under the radar since so little acreage is devoted to sangiovese compared to French varietals? Did you ever consider calling your wines chianti (did trade barriers or other restrictions keep you from doing so?)?

I'm definitely available, cough cough, and remember really enjoying last time but offering tardy notes.



We are trying to make an overtly Tuscan/Chianti style wine from California grapes. The result is we get a somewhat riper, fruitier wine with the floral elements of a Tuscan Sangiovese. You may have read some of my commentary on Sangiovese that was already posted.
French grapes have gotten first attention from American growers -- where the climate allows them -- because we historically favor French foods and are more familiar with French wines. It's tempting to suggest French wines are historically superior, but I would argue that German wines are equal in almost any discussion of quality except for diversity. (For example, Germany has essentially no world beater red wines, period.) Italian and Spanish wines are getting lots of attention now, but when we started they were almost unknowns in the marketplace except for a few mediocre wines -- remember Chianti in the straw flascha or Mateus (which may have been Portuguese)? I remember being entertained by a vendor at a very nice restaurant in 1973 and he ordered Mateus and was very proud of it. . . . Italy began its most recent wine Renaisance in the late 1970's which picked up steam in the 80's; Spain and maybe Portugal started at least ten years later. And we have barely touched Greek and other, good regional wines.
When Sangiovese got started in California in the late 80's or early 90's, it was billed as the next Merlot. It hasn't worked out that way. Sangiovese's economic realities versus other varieties and the difficulty of growing and making it has limited its New World appeal. Also, many Americans find Italian varieties made in an Italian style too acidic or even astringent. From Vino Noceto's perspective that high acid is what makes Sangiovese such a versital and wonderful food wine. It also helps it age.
See some of my other commentary for more commentary. I believe when your Estancia Sangiovese was produced when Estancia was part of Franciscan in Napa. Today the Estancia label is in Soledad, loosely in-land from Monterey, probably central coast appellation. Neither Franciscan or Estancia list a Sangiovese.
Even when we started we could call the wine Chianti only if we were making basically a jug wine. Today we could not even get that approved. In fact, we can barely mention Tuscany or Italy on the label -- as classic Tuscan varietal -- much less Chianti or Brunello. These are the rules which have been expanded by recent EU - USA trade agreements.
Jim
Jim



JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
PetiteSirah wrote:Winemaker -- can you comment on Sangio Grosso vs. Sangio Piccolo? What does each bring to the table?


Sangiovese Grosso versus Piccolo. Generally speaking, Sangiovese Grosso equals Brunello, theoretically larger berries and larger bunches. Sangiovese Piccolo equals Sangioveto or Sangiovese della Toscanna, the grape in Chianti. And the same grape is called Morellino in coastal Tuscany and Prugnolo Gentile in Montepulciano in south-central Tuscany, to name a few synonyms.
Much discussion centers around the superiority of each clone. Conventional wisdom suggests superior color and intensity in the Grosso, despite its larger berries and clusters! From the Piccolo smaller berries and clusters will provide firmer, fruitier wine with higher acid. While the wine results parallel the expectation defined above, berry and cluster sizes are more often than not contrary to the expectations! So. . . .
At the macro level, Sangiovese has proven (in our and many others' opinions) to be more site specific than clone specific. Berry and cluster size as well as sensory and wine qualities and styles do not follow a strict a simple guideline. Many growers and vintners find this frustrating -- for us it's fun and a challenge.
Not that it will end the debate, but part of the motivation for the Chianti 2000 experiment in Tuscany was to assess the many selections or clones of Sangiovese. The Chianti 2000 program scoured the countryside of Italy for Sangiovese clones. About 1000 were identified, planted in controlled (but not identical) vineyards, and six barrels of wine produced and aged for several years. A committee judged these wines for quality.
This was no small undertaking, but thought to be critical for the continued upgrading of central Italian, Sangiovese-based wines. As I understand it, out of the 1000 samples in the trial, 100 winners and 600 losers emerged with a couple hundred left undecided. Most new or replanted Italian Sangiovese vineyards are planted from the winners.
A number of the winners are now available in the US. We have R-19. It was originally from the Abbruzzi province on the Adriatic side of Italy opposite Tuscany. A neighbor grows R-10 which originated from Tuscany I believe.
It appears to us that the R-10 will consistently contribute to the Noceto or Normale Sangiovese -- some is in the 2006 wine in this Woot offering. It's too early to tell for the R-19, but early returns indicate it may produce superior results in our vineyard. A couple more vintages are needed to tell.
Hope that helped.
Jim

kyle83uw


quality posts: 4 Private Messages kyle83uw

Ok, here’s the promised labrat report. The 05 Riserva had been opened for about 1.5 hours prior to tasting.

My first impressions w/ the 2005 Riserva, and some comparisons to the 04-
The 05 is noticeably lighter than the 2004- possibly due to the lack of the syrah that the 04 has? Beautiful light red color
Nose- first thought = cherries + earth- seemed very similar on the nose to what I remembered for the regular sang. Some heat on the nose, but not as much as I remembered last night for the 04 when I was just opened. As I let it breathe for a bit in the glass, I started to pick up another red fruit- hard to pinpoint what it is- first thought was strawberry, possibly raspberry. My initial impression was that the nose reminded me a bit of an Oregon pinot noir w/ the earthy notes.

Taste- sour cherries, possibly cranberry? Definitely lighter fruits than the 04- not picking up any of the dark cherries/dark fruit that I notice in the 04. Not picking up much of the earthiness that I noticed on the nose. There are tannins present, but they are smooth, and in no way overpowering- more tannins than what I remember in the regular sang. I went and peeked at pengu1n’s notes @ this point to compare- I actually picked up more chocolate w/ the 04 than w/ the 05, but I agree that this is a light wine, much more so than the 04- which is not a bad thing, but there are noticeable differences.

*edit* - I take that back- I am getting a bit of an earthy taste in the 05
2nd edit- now 3hrs open- just picked up some charcoal on the nose- any heat that was present is gone.

I’d consider the 04 a bit more complex, could hold up to heavier foods, but in terms of deliciousness w/in an hour or two of being opened, I’d give the 05 the upper hand- the 04 needed a bit more time to open up. That being said, the 04 has now been open for 24hrs and really has become wonderful- very full mouth feel, and much more subdued tannins, no heat at all.

Those are my first thoughts- I’ll post an update if it opens up or changes significantly- might also pair it w/ some sharp cheddar later.

Very happy I went in for 3

Again- a huge *thank you* to WD- now it's back to the wine- I'm sitting here w/ 1/4 bottle 04 and 3/4 bottle 05 Vino Noceto sang's....*droool* =)

hinrgman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages hinrgman

This is another great offer. I'm in.

joannevicious


quality posts: 4 Private Messages joannevicious
mopsie2002 wrote:Keep in mind you're not supposed to drink while breast-feeding, either....



That's actually not entirely true! (And I've been doing tons of research given that I'm about two weeks out from daughter #2 joining us!) As long as you don't breast feed while drunk, and maintain the one glass with dinner/food, and allow about two hours per glass to clear your system all is well. Breast feed just before or while enjoying the glass of wine and the wine won't be in your milk. Wine while breastfeeding is much safer than while pregnant, and even that's ok with moderation.

Congrats to all the other pregnito-winos! And major kudos and positive energies to the twins.

Back on topic: Nocetto was one of my first winery loves when I got into the whole wine-loving business years ago, but that damned PhD student budget is killing me (yeah, I know, finishing a PhD with two kids? yes, I am known to be an over-achieving nut, which is why I need the wine--to mellow the crazy). Also, I think hubby picked up that Mandolina case for me for my birthday (hopefully he isn't following this thread b/c I haven't mentioned my suspicion). Maybe we'll make the 2-hour trip for the 4/18 festivities as his birthday celebration (we're in Berkeley)! But the fanaticism around this winery is pulling me.

ps,
birthday is St. Pat's (Tuesday)! Have one or two or three for me please since my volumes will be measured only in sips. (Ironic that I got into wine and was never interested in beer.)

animallover


quality posts: 6 Private Messages animallover

I was so surprised and ELATED when there was a knock on the door yesterday afternoon and the labrat golden ticket & 2006 Vino Noceto Sangiovese arrived! What a way to end a week...and on Friday the 13th!

The neighbors could not make it, so my husband and I set about our first comparison tasting. Like kyle83uw, we are also also new to describing tastings.

We had the 2006 Sangiovese (Thank you WineDavid!), the 2005 Sangiovese and the 2004 Riserva Sangiovese from previous wine woot offerings.

We opened all three at the same time and tried each straight after opening, cleansing our palates in between tastings. We worked on a project between subsequent tastings to keep us busy (and keep our minds off of the wine) until the next tasting! Here are our notes:

6:45pm
2006 Sangiovese
Me: Tiny bit of sharpness/heat, very fruity (fruit forward?), touch of oak. Warm, not hot - could feel it warming my mouth and throat as it went down.

Hubby: Smooth, good bouquet/nose, strong and lasting finish, felt it needed to breathe

2005 Sangiovese
Me: Beautiful color, no sharpness, slightly heavier and very fruity nose. Good finish.

Hubby: Very smooth for right out of the bottle, less bouquet and mild finish.

2004 Riserva Sangiovese
Me: Very light, no sharpness, smoky and nice finish.

Hubby: Stronger, slightly edgy, less bouquet, mild finish.

8PM
2006 Sangiovese
Me: Little bit smoother, nice bouquet, still warm.

Hubby: Smoother after breathing, other qualities same as first tasting.

2005 Sangiovese
Me: Slighly smoother, not as much fruit, great finish.

Hubby: Very smooth, nice finish. A great time for this vintage (year and time to breathe)

2004 Riserva Sangiovese
Me: Light sharpness, more fruity. Still a nice finish.

Hubby: Same as first tasting, no changes after breathing for 1 hour.

9:30pm
2006 Sangiovese
Me: Much softer, low warmth/spicy. Still warming my mouth and throat on the way down.

Hubby: Smoother than the second tasting, good bouquet/nose and still a strong finish.

2005 Sangiovese
Me: Short burst of fruit in my nose, still very smooth, great finish.

Hubby: Lost some fruitiness.

2004 Riserva Sangiovese
Me: Seems stronger and sharper - good finish.

Hubby: Same as second tasting still strong and edgy.

We then each choose a wine to have with our dinners (chicken & pasta with red sauce and garlic bread). We used the Vinturi wine aerator while pouring to see if it made any noticeable differences from the last tasting. It did not appear to, perhaps because the wine had a few hours to breathe on it's own.

Me: Chose the 2006 Sangiovese. It matched well with dinner and seemed even smoother. The warmth stayed with it and I've taken a liking to it!

Hubby: Chose the 2004 Riserva Sangiovese. Felt it would hold up well against the sauce and spices and that the others would do well for enjoying tomorrow with some cheese (and he can't wait). Very pleased with results with dinner.


We then ranked the wines and came up with the same list:
#1 2005 Sangiovese - this wine has aged well and is great to drink with or without food.

#2 2004 Riserva - this wine is great with food.

#3 2006 Sangiovese - we both feel that this wine is good now, but will improve with some aging to become as great as the 2005 Sangiovese.

We're both looking forward to trying the second 1/2 bottle of each tonight. And I think we're going to become Big Nuts. We each were in for 3 when this came up for sale, but you can never have enough!

This was a fun experience and we're now interested in getting one of those kits that help you separate the flavors of wines. Perhaps there might be one in the next wootoff?

Big Thanks and hope our experience entices others to give this wine a try. If you don't...you're going to regret it!

kylemittskus


quality posts: 232 Private Messages kylemittskus

This was a great offering because:

A) The three winery participants were intelligent, full of fun facts and loquacious answers, and all around great people.
B) The labrats were amazing this week.
C) The volrats were amazing this week.

So, thank you Noceto crew and rats for doing a damn good job.

"If drinking is bitter, change yourself to wine." -Rainer Maria Rilke

"Champagne is a very kind and friendly thing on a rainy night." -Isak Dinesen

McMalbec


quality posts: 8 Private Messages McMalbec

Suprised this offering has not sold out. May have to do some gifting!

bardolator


quality posts: 3 Private Messages bardolator

In for one and hoping I'm able to have UPS hold it (whenever it comes) and deliver during my Spring Break so I don't have to drive forever to get it.

(Asked my mom if I could have it redelivered to my folks' house if I'm not home--I was just hesitant 'cos my dad doesn't understand why anyone would buy three bottles of wine at a time. Yes, really. He'll enjoy what I share with them, though.... XD)

psmurf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages psmurf
kylemittskus wrote:This was a great offering because:

A) The three winery participants were intelligent, full of fun facts and loquacious answers, and all around great people.
B) The labrats were amazing this week.
C) The volrats were amazing this week.

So, thank you Noceto crew and rats for doing a damn good job.



All that and the juice looks to be good.
~In for a couple sets~

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
Neil Peart(of Rush)

subinsignia


quality posts: 9 Private Messages subinsignia

For those interested in Noceto-Taste dinner...

At 6 pm we made our way to Taste for the Library and New Release Dinner. We were greeted at the door by Jum Gullett and were handed the 2008 Frivolo to sip as we mingled. Suzy, Rusty, Bobby, Kevin and Tracy were there and maybe more of the Noceto crowd that I may have missed. We made out way to our table and Kevin joined us as Pam was ill and could not make the day trip with us.
 2008 Frivolo. Just a great quaffer. 89+ points.
 2008 Pinot Grigio with Grilled Prawns with Shaved Fennel, Carrot and Cumin. Spectacular dish and the wine was a great match. The sublte seasoning with a hint of spice and the PG coupled for well. 88+ points.
 1995 & 2006 Sangiovese Normale with Pork Tenderloin, Red Wine Braised Le Puy Lentils, Sweet Onion Puree. Wow. What a dish and what wines. I preferred the 1995, very Dos Oakies in its stature. Still deeply red, full flavored and perhaps the best normale I’ve ever had. The youthful 2006 also coupled well with this, the spicy component adding something to the flavorful dish. 91+ for the 1995, 89-90 for the 2006.
 2004 Noce Knoll and 2003 Marmellata with Roasted Game Hen, Black and White Truffle Gnocchi. I liked the Noce Knoll with the hen and the Marmellata with the gnocchi. What beautiful flavors on the hen the hint of fattiness in the meat and the fullness of the Noce Knoll were spectacular together. The jammy and fruity Marmellata was a better counterpoint to the intense and beautiful truffle flavors on the gnocchi. Mmm, good! 91 on both wines.
 2002 & 2006 OGP Zinfandel and Braised Hoisen Lamb, Maitake Mushrooms, Asian Noodle and Scallion. Mixed together or with just the meat, I preferred the older zin. Quite noble and intense. Huge flavors, very complex, the age is doing it well. The noodles alone were better with the 2006 zin, the youth and fruit pairing with the seared and almost sweet hoisen sauce on the noodes. What a dish. Great lamb, micely prepared. 94-95 points on the 2002, 93 points on the 2006.
 NV Almirante Dessert Wine (Port) with Bellweather Farms Pepato Cheese, Candied and Cured Walnuts. Another great dish. The hard cheese and candied walnuts were great but the cured walnut was from Armenia and looked like a date or fig. Very interesting and port accompanied all with great aplomb. 92 points.
What a great dinner amd what great wines. We had a blast talking and kidding with Kevin and meeting Jim and Suzy for the first time. All these visits and I never met them before! We were in awe and full. It was shortly after 10 as we left and the two hour ride was filled with great memories and conversation before the riders all went to sleep! We got back in exactly two hours. Tired but happy, sleep came quickly.

Steve Jones

MarkDaSpark


quality posts: 187 Private Messages MarkDaSpark

Is anyone from Vino Noceto going to be at Family Winemakers tomorrow in Del Mar (San Diego)? A couple of us wooters are going to visit.


Someone has to put WD's kids thru college, but why does it have to be me!
*This post is for purposes of enabling only, and does not constitute any promise of helping pay for said enabling. It does indicate willingness to assist in drinking said wine.

duck833


quality posts: 0 Private Messages duck833

Just gifted a three pack to a friend of mine that is currently slumming it in Palm Springs. He owns a small Villa and vineyard south of Tuscany and produces a small amount of wine for personal use. His entire vineyard is Sangiovese so of course he is always looking to taste other wine makers product. Should be interesting to hear his comments.

good food, good wine, bad girl = great evening

JimofNoceto


quality posts: 23 Private Messages JimofNoceto
MarkDaSpark wrote:Is anyone from Vino Noceto going to be at Family Winemakers tomorrow in Del Mar (San Diego)? A couple of us wooters are going to visit.


Yes, Suzy, co-owner of Vino Noceto and my wife, and our daughter will be serving. I'm tied to the computer at home due to a recent knee replacement.
We'll have a pretty good cross section of our wines. Please introduce yourself!
I'm also chair of Family Winemakers of California. So, I especially hope you have a great time.
Jim Gullett

polarbear22


quality posts: 35 Private Messages polarbear22
JimofNoceto wrote:Yes, Suzy, co-owner of Vino Noceto and my wife, and our daughter will be serving. I'm tied to the computer at home due to a recent knee replacement.
We'll have a pretty good cross section of our wines. Please introduce yourself!
I'm also chair of Family Winemakers of California. So, I especially hope you have a great time.
Jim Gullett


Hope your knee replacement heals up nicely for you. I hear from everyone I know that had one that they are very happy with it. I just had some more knee repair (cartilage mainly). I think a knee replacement is likely in my future.

Thanks for all your time posting. I guess we are glad that we caught you chained to your desk. I have to go back and read all your posts. I was not reading too closely after I bought, but just scanning this page indicates that there is a lot of information worth capturing. (Copy to a Word document.)

Now to check out the wine club. You may have really hooked me.

Polar bears are meant to be clever, very clever. They are the Einsteins of the bear community. - Anonymous
Please donate to the 2014 MS Bike Ride
Want to read what SonomaBouliste has to say about wine?
Ddeuddeg Cheesecake Cookbook
My Cellar

txmusicman49


quality posts: 3 Private Messages txmusicman49

Jim / Suzy
I enjoyed and appreciated your comments and input this week, and I always enjoy your wines. Next weekend (21st &22nd) I will be in San Jose (actually will be there for the whole week after) and I have some friends that live in Sacramento. We have gone to Amador County several times in the past, mostly before I had a clue about wines. I am trying to set up a meet with them, possibly at Vino Noceto sometime during the weekend. Not sure if I can make it happen or not, but wanted to verify that the tasting room would be open either or both days. Thanks again for your involvement and providing very helpful and educational responses to the many questions. Hope to meet some of you next weekend.

Tony

clayjars


quality posts: 0 Private Messages clayjars

I find it's best to be honest. I have zero knowledge of wine. On the topic, I can only say with assurance that I have NOT enjoyed the few dry wines I've tried. From the reviews it sounds like these offerings aren't dry and lean toward the sweet variety. Am I right?

Many have said these are the ones to buy. I'm on the fence but could be convinced to purchase if someone would be kind enough to give a real newbie a little more information. Thanks so much for any help you can provide!

BTW, what the heck is a labrat?!

marekny7


quality posts: 0 Private Messages marekny7
clayjars wrote:I find it's best to be honest. I have zero knowledge of wine. On the topic, I can only say with assurance that I have NOT enjoyed the few dry wines I've tried. From the reviews it sounds like these offerings aren't dry and lean toward the sweet variety. Am I right?

Many have said these are the ones to buy. I'm on the fence but could be convinced to purchase if someone would be kind enough to give a real newbie a little more information. Thanks so much for any help you can provide!

BTW, what the heck is a labrat?!



Here is a wikipedia description of labrat

CT

clayjars


quality posts: 0 Private Messages clayjars
marekny7 wrote:Here is a wikipedia description of labrat




Thank you for the link! Now if someone will provide more info on the wine offering, I'll be thrilled!