I am on the fence on this offering. It is hard to get into PN on a budget!
Of course, lab analysis often confirms a wooter's preliminary decision or forces reconsideration.

The only over $30. PN I have much recall about is Williams Selyem, Russian Valley.
Most of my purchases are forgettable,(not because they were not good) "best buys" in the $20. range.

Is a comparison poosible?

ddeuddeg wrote:Out of context, this remark, coming from one who has yet to taste these wines, nor any others that may be made in CA in the future, sounds like the words of a total wine snob. Just my 2¢.

Given that you were on the tour, I think that's a little bit of a cheap shot, especially since my comment was in the context of saying I was liking some California Pinot Noir better than I have in the past. Right now, very little California Pinot Noir is great. More than used to be, but most of the better ones still don't achieve greatness. In Burgundy, in good years, quite a number of wines regularly achieve greatness. It may well be that at some future date, California will regularly (in good years) produce a significant number of great Pinot Noir wines. I'm agnostic on the question. But, whatever it is, the wines still will be different than those made in Burgundy, just as California Cabernet Sauvignon -- which I do think regularly produces great wines in good years -- is not the same as Bordeaux.

rpm wrote:The NYC tasting crew labratted the Savoy Vineyard Pinot Noir. We tasted it after a 1998 S. Anderson Blanc de Blanc California sparkling wine and a 1998 Puligny-Montrachet 1er cru white burgundy, and before the 10+ year old reds.

I think Krugsters will be posting our combined notes, taken on modified Davis scorecards. I'd post my own notes, but I left them to be used in the group compiled notes.

Here are the NYC impressions of the 2006 Savoy:
WINE EVALUATION:

APPEARANCE (2 MAX): 1.5 - 'Clear to brilliantly clear.'

COLOR: (2 MAX): 2 -characteristic for this type.

AROMA / BOUQUET (6 MAX): 4.5 - Good + - 'Cherry, raspberry, strawberry candy.

ACIDITY (2 MAX) 2, excellent balance.

SWEETNESS (1 MAX) 1, appropriate.

BODY (1 MAX), 1

FLAVOR/ TASTE / TEXTURE (2 MAX): 1 - Good + - 'Characteristic grape-variety or wine-type flavor. Good balance. Smooth. May have minor imperfections." - Candy, spice, black pepper, woody, metallic.

BITTERNESS (1 MAX): 1 - Is the wine bitter? (not tannin)

ASTRINGENCY (1 MAX) Is the tannin level appropriate? .5

OVERALL IMPRESSION/GENERAL QUALITY (2 MAX): 1 - Good

TOTAL SCORE 15.5 + - Good to Excellent, Standard

I know that it's not even noon on the east coast yet, but there's no football today so can we have a clue to stave off the boredom WD?

Perhaps the NYC crew have a chance to add some comments about the Savoy.
I am one finger typing due to a cheese incident...

kylemittskus wrote:As suggested before, we would love you to stick around and participate weekly. Mr. Harvey does as does Peter Wellington. However, I think Scott has become a quasi-addict as well as a wine oracle. Stick around, but be warned, you may start buying.

I guess I have become a bit of an addict. The woot community is a lot of fun and Wine David's wine deals introduce me to a lot of wines I would not normanlly get and at wonderful prices.

ScottHarveyWines wrote:I guess I have become a bit of an addict. The woot community is a lot of fun and Wine David's wine deals introduce me to a lot of wines I would not normanlly get and at wonderful prices.

I pretty much assumed that there'd be a 'wine maker reciprocity' allowing you to get your hands on anything at around its distribution cost, at most, if not for par against your bottles.

Krugsters wrote:Perhaps the NYC crew have a chance to add some comments about the Savoy.
I am one finger typing due to a cheese incident...

I thought more than a few of us thought the Savoy needs some bottle age to realize its potential. It showed a much better bouquet after some swirling in the glass and air. But the flavor still seemed closed even after some air time.

I know I won't be opening mine until at least 2011.

So.... 18 hours later, what's the assessment of the first aid on the finger? Hope there won't be any complications.

Krugsters wrote:Here are the NYC impressions of the 2006 Savoy:
WINE EVALUATION:

APPEARANCE (2 MAX): 1.5 - 'Clear to brilliantly clear.'

COLOR: (2 MAX): 2 -characteristic for this type.

AROMA / BOUQUET (6 MAX): 4.5 - Good + - 'Cherry, raspberry, strawberry candy.

ACIDITY (2 MAX) 2, excellent balance.

SWEETNESS (1 MAX) 1, appropriate.

BODY (1 MAX), 1

FLAVOR/ TASTE / TEXTURE (2 MAX): 1 - Good + - 'Characteristic grape-variety or wine-type flavor. Good balance. Smooth. May have minor imperfections." - Candy, spice, black pepper, woody, metallic.

BITTERNESS (1 MAX): 1 - Is the wine bitter? (not tannin)

ASTRINGENCY (1 MAX) Is the tannin level appropriate? .5

OVERALL IMPRESSION/GENERAL QUALITY (2 MAX): 1 - Good

TOTAL SCORE 15.5 + - Good to Excellent, Standard

I had a slightly higher opinion of the Savoy than the average, but agree that the weakness was in flavor and finish and the aroma was its strongest point. A little candy-ish for my personal taste. I would have liked to have been able to wait an hour and a half or so after opening for another taste to see if more (and more interesting) flavors would appear.

speedoo64 wrote:
So.... 18 hours later, what's the assessment of the first aid on the finger? Hope there won't be any complications.

Well, it hurts.... Thanks to Kttest & ThatGuy314 for medical assistance during the evening! I'm hoping it looks worse than it actually is.

I for one will be sad to see this day end. And not just because tomorrow will bring another opportunity to blow the budget.

Some winemakers don't participate in the discussions here very much, or do so poorly. Others, such as Peter and Scott, not only participate when their wines are offered but also share their expertise throughout the year. The Roessler crew has been exemplary - I've learned a lot and will remember far less, but have been very impressed by their approach to winemaking and their willingness, maybe even eagerness, to share it with all of us. Three cheers for a job well done, I hope you do stick around and offer more of your wines in the future, and I look forward to drinking the fruit of your vines.

themostrighteous wrote:funny you should ask...

VINO: 2006 Roessler Pinot Noir La Encantada Vineyard (USA, California, Central Coast, Santa Rita Hills)

LABRATS: Loweeel, Sparky, cheron, timbyrd, java, oppsie, oppsie's +1 & tmr

WINE EVALUATION:

APPEARANCE (3 MAX): 3 - Excellent - 'Brilliant with outstanding characteristic color.'

AROMA / BOUQUET (6 MAX): 4 1/4 - Good + - 'Characteristic aroma. Complex bouquet. Well balanced.' - candy apple coating & strawberry jolly rancher with a hint of bacon & Rice Chex / cardboard / popcorn & a distinct funk at first.

TASTE / TEXTURE (6 MAX): 4 + - Good + - 'Characteristic grape-variety or wine-type flavor. Good balance. Smooth. May have minor imperfections." - sour cherry leather till the cows come home, fruit roll-up galore & mushroom with herbal notes.

AFTERTASTE (3 MAX): 2 - Good - 'Pleasant aftertaste.' - slightly hollow midpalate yields to an acidic (in a good way) & medicinal (in a good way) finish.

OVERALL IMPRESSION (2 MAX): 1 - Good

TOTAL SCORE 14 1/4 + - Good to Excellent

OUR GROUP'S OVERALL IMPRESSION:

1 of 8 - not a PN person
2 of 8 - not my style of PN
2 of 8 - good
3 of 8 - good to excellent, acidity suggests that it would benefit quite a bit from pairing with food (which we did NOT have it with)

NOTE: the descriptions in quotes ('') for each point rating were copied from the Wine Evaluation Chart of the American Wine Society.

EDIT: on a personal note, i have 47 wine.woots to my name & have NEVER gifted myself an extra order in addition to my main order - until now.

posted to Labrat thread

Krugsters wrote:Here are the NYC impressions of the 2006 Savoy:
WINE EVALUATION:

APPEARANCE (2 MAX): 1.5 - 'Clear to brilliantly clear.'

COLOR: (2 MAX): 2 -characteristic for this type.

AROMA / BOUQUET (6 MAX): 4.5 - Good + - 'Cherry, raspberry, strawberry candy.

ACIDITY (2 MAX) 2, excellent balance.

SWEETNESS (1 MAX) 1, appropriate.

BODY (1 MAX), 1

FLAVOR/ TASTE / TEXTURE (2 MAX): 1 - Good + - 'Characteristic grape-variety or wine-type flavor. Good balance. Smooth. May have minor imperfections." - Candy, spice, black pepper, woody, metallic.

BITTERNESS (1 MAX): 1 - Is the wine bitter? (not tannin)

ASTRINGENCY (1 MAX) Is the tannin level appropriate? .5

OVERALL IMPRESSION/GENERAL QUALITY (2 MAX): 1 - Good

TOTAL SCORE 15.5 + - Good to Excellent, Standard

Posted to Labrat thread

Josh784 wrote:Lab Report - La Encantada Vineyard

I made it home from work and popped the cork on this one at 11pm last night. Poured a glass ten minutes later and let it sit for half an hour. Room temperature was about 65 degrees, and I was using a Riedel Burgundy glass.

This wine has a powerful nose - spicier and more assertive than your typical Pinot Noir. Immediately I picked up on notes of raspberry and strawberry. Later in the night I picked up on small hints of that 'Burgundian' funk.

On the palate, the first thing that stands out for me about this wine is that it's significantly more tannic than your average PN. It has some spicy fruit along with your typical PN strawberry component. It's fairly weighty for a Pinot, in fact the mouthfeel reminds me of Syrah.

I only enjoyed a few glasses last night, so I will update this post tonight after I finish the rest of the bottle. I suspect that this wine might even be better on the second night, if the tannins are able to subside somewhat and integrate with the wine to create a more Pinor Noir-like structure. That's not to say I didn't enjoy drinking this last night, it's a very well crafted wine that makes you think as it is an unusual style for a PN.



Round Two - The Second Night

I left the bottle on the counter overnight and poured myself another sampling about an hour ago. On the first night, this wine almost demanded your attention via its uncanny style for wine made from Pinot Noir. I was unable to settle upon a conclusive assessment of its qualities on night one as it left some lingering questions regarding its structure and prominent characteristics.

Whether it's my palate or any number of other variables, from my perspective this wine has really pulled itself together by the second night. It has lost some dark fruit and alcohol on both the nose and palate, contributing to a less spicy, more Pinot Noir-like wine. The La Encantada is still a big wine by PN standards - it has a strong backbone - however it has evolved to encompass a degree of finesse that I was unable to find when I drank a few glasses last night. There is more of that funky, smelly socks component that I enjoy in my Pinot, and the tannins have subsided to create a softer, more elegant wine. From my point of view, the La Encantada was a bit off balance on night one, possibly due to 'bottle shock' from shipping (I did open it the day it was received, after all). By the second night, however, this has evolved into a wine that I can really appreciate. It's certainly a Pinot Noir, and possesses the elegance and subtleties of that varietal, but I think the terroir of the La Encantada vineyard lends it a very unique and thought provoking style.

Posted to labrat thread.

rpm wrote:I had a slightly higher opinion of the Savoy than the average, but agree that the weakness was in flavor and finish and the aroma was its strongest point. A little candy-ish for my personal taste. I would have liked to have been able to wait an hour and a half or so after opening for another taste to see if more (and more interesting) flavors would appear.

Tasted with the NYC crew: Thanks winedavid for the opportunity

I also thought the nose on the Savoy was great. The fruit was there but i did not think it was the dominant factor... there was a lot more going on: i got some nice minerality and iron and maybe hints of flower? and mint? . maybe im crazy but it reminded me of the nice perfumed nose of cool climate, that is,some northern rhone syrahs (violets probably)

On the palate it was well balanced but the flavors are not completely there yet, maybe because of the tannins/structure.. i just think it needs a bit of time to come together...would be nice to try it again in 6 months to a year maybe... again, great nose and nice structure and mouthfeel. well made

coynedj wrote:I for one will be sad to see this day end. And not just because tomorrow will bring another opportunity to blow the budget.

Some winemakers don't participate in the discussions here very much, or do so poorly. Others, such as Peter and Scott, not only participate when their wines are offered but also share their expertise throughout the year. The Roessler crew has been exemplary - I've learned a lot and will remember far less, but have been very impressed by their approach to winemaking and their willingness, maybe even eagerness, to share it with all of us. Three cheers for a job well done, I hope you do stick around and offer more of your wines in the future, and I look forward to drinking the fruit of your vines.

Here here!!!

Can those of us who keep track of such things somewhat scientifically share with us what kind of offerings we are "due" for?

Winedavid39 wrote:Clue?

Theodoric.

As in "Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber?"

Lighter wrote:As in "Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber?"

Theodoric of York: Well, I'll do everything humanly possible. Unfortunately, we barbers aren't gods. You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter's was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach.

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77rtheodoric.phtml

rpm wrote:Right now, very little California Pinot Noir is great. More than used to be, but most of the better ones still don't achieve greatness. In Burgundy, in good years, quite a number of wines regularly achieve greatness. It may well be that at some future date, California will regularly (in good years) produce a significant number of great Pinot Noir wines. I'm agnostic on the question. But, whatever it is, the wines still will be different than those made in Burgundy, just as California Cabernet Sauvignon -- which I do think regularly produces great wines in good years -- is not the same as Bordeaux.

Actually, I am happy that this particular "discussion" came up. I have been wondering what sets a CA Cab apart from a Bordeaux, and a CA PN apart from a Burgundy. It has given me some inspiration for a comparative tasting experience.

Lighter wrote:Theodoric of York: Well, I'll do everything humanly possible. Unfortunately, we barbers aren't gods. You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter's was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach.

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77rtheodoric.phtml

York . . . . York Creek Vineyards? I hope not, because I'd be very tempted to buy.

Ste. Michelle Wine has a CEO named Theodor. It's "the largest and most acclaimed wine company in the Pacific Northwest."

Edit: It looks like they have 14 separate labels. I think I'm WRONG.

Double edit: They own Stag's Leap. That sounds familiar. Have we seen that before?

Lighter wrote:As in "Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber?"

One more url and then I'll leave the weekly quiz solution for the ribs kids.

After a commercial this is the entire skit on Hulu:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/3529/saturday-night-live-theodoric-of-york

Lighter wrote:One more url and then I'll leave the weekly quiz solution for the ribs kids.

After a commercial this is the entire skit on Hulu:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/3529/saturday-night-live-theodoric-of-york

Bill Murray hurt himself after drinking too much mead...

woopdedoo wrote:Actually, I am happy that this particular "discussion" came up. I have been wondering what sets a CA Cab apart from a Bordeaux, and a CA PN apart from a Burgundy. It has given me some inspiration for a comparative tasting experience.

This is a huge subject that I won't even try to answer right now -- other than to note that at our NYC tasting yesterday we had two old California Cabernets (1971 Pedroncelli and 1973 Inglenook Cask) and a old Bordeaux (admittedly mostly merlot and cabernet franc - 1979 Clos L'eglise) from Pomerol. Of the three wines, the Pedroncelli was in the best shape, with a little more life in it, the Inglenook was definitely past its prime, but showing a noseful of Rutherford Dust (recognizable to any Tourist...) and the Pomerol was almost completely dried out. In fairness, 1979 was only an OK year, rather variable, but generally considered more successful in Pomerol and Saint-Emilion than in the Medoc and Graves. On the other hand, 1971 was only an OK year in California, overshadowed by the spectacular 1970, and 1973 was an above average year overshadowed by 1974, which was thought spectacular at the time, though not in retrospect.

gcdyersb wrote:York . . . . York Creek Vineyards? I hope not, because I'd be very tempted to buy.

Maybe York Mountain (now owned by Martin & Weyrich)? Not bad, but would be better if more (any?) of their current offerings came from the York Mountain AVA.

Ron Barber is the winery chef at St. Supery Vineyards

gcdyersb wrote:York . . . . York Creek Vineyards? I hope not, because I'd be very tempted to buy.

If it is, I would expect WD to make some sort of repair man joke, since York Creek is owned by Fritz Maytag, of Anchor Brewing fame. Cathy Corison made some of York Creek's earlier wines, I don't know if she's still involved in their more recent bottlings.

Ridge also makes a number of wines from the York Creek vineyards. Despite their relatively epic availability, Ridge would certainly be a coup for WW.

SonomaBouliste wrote:You're right, you shouldn't ask

Fair enough!

After some reflection this reminded me of a theater critics comment on the radio. He said he wouldn't be a good critic if he just told us us what he liked or if we should like it. His job was to describe the atmosphere and experience so we could make our own decision.

andyduncan wrote: Ridge would certainly be a coup for WW.

I don't think I could resist Ridge.

annsalisbury wrote:Maybe York Mountain (now owned by Martin & Weyrich)? Not bad, but would be better if more (any?) of their current offerings came from the York Mountain AVA.

Yorkville?

speedoo64 wrote:Well, rpm and I disagree (strongly) on some things, but I can say without hesitation that he is no wine snob. And this combined with his immense knowledge of wine make his opinions of great value to many of us. His comment on Burgundy vs. new world PN is one that many would agree with, I would guess.

I know perfectly well that rpm is no wine snob. I don't even find myself disagreeing with him all that much. Indeed, I owe a great deal of my own wine education to his posts here, and his very much appreciated presence on last summer's tour. I don't personally have that great wealth of experience with Burgundy to be able to make a meaningful comparison to Cali PN, which was precisely my point.

I'm not alone in that I rely on what I read here for at least part of my education. There are a lot of people who read these posts with some regularity, and some of them have expressed the feeling in recent weeks that it often seems to be a bit of a closed group, with a great lot of inside jokes and banter that can be difficult or impossible to interpret if you haven't kept careful track of it for some time. In that context, I think that such comments as the one I remarked on could get a hasty reading from a reader who would then possibly be totally turned off to the current offer, which was clearly not rpm's intent.

woopdedoo wrote:Actually, I am happy that this particular "discussion" came up. I have been wondering what sets a CA Cab apart from a Bordeaux, and a CA PN apart from a Burgundy. It has given me some inspiration for a comparative tasting experience.

You'll need to pull lots of corks
As you know, there is a fairly epic range of California Cabs and this holds true for other types and regions. Just look at the disparity of descriptions of the Roessler by the labrats and you'll see that people's reference points and expectations of a wine type can be highly variable. I'm reminded of the group of blind men describing an elephant by each touching a different body part.
Although climate change and "international style" winemaking have combined to lessen the overall distinction between regions there are still differences. Even an experienced taster can occasionally confuse Burgundy with new world Pinot. Purportedly famed English wine writer Hugh Johnson was once asked if he had ever mistaken Burgundy for Bordeaux and replied, "Not since lunch".

Winedavid39 wrote:Clue?

Theodoric.

If not York Mountain as has been previously mentioned, what about York Creek?

Any chance that either way we can get a non-Cabernet offering?

davirom wrote:Ron Barber is the winery chef at St. Supery Vineyards

virtu and elu would surely light some fires in the wallet

Winedavid39 wrote:Clue?

Theodoric.

Theodor- one of the chipmunks. Ross Bagdasarian Sr. creator, bought a winery, Sierra Wine Corp. August "Joe" Briggs started making wines with SWC and now August Briggs Winery

Lighter wrote:As in "Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber?"

See this is why I'm no good at this.
So "Theodoric of York" = Steve Martin = either "The Muppet Movie" or "The Jerk."

Following that logic I end up with either:
- Camas Prairie Sweet Sparkling [Sparkling Muscat from Idaho]
or
- Beaujolais Nuevo ["No more of this old stuff"]

And I'm [thankfully] sure that I'm wrong

PS Also found out that a "Steve Martin" is running the project to build Roessler's new winery

Anyone else watching this 60 Minutes piece on Red Wine and the possibility of creating a pill from some of the chemicals in the wine that will give you a couple more decades of viable life??

Bring on the red grapes.

jwink wrote:Anyone else watching this 60 Minutes piece on Red Wine and the possibility of creating a pill from some of the chemicals in the wine that will give you a couple more decades of viable life??

Bring on the red grapes.

Feh. What's the fun of a pill?

{That said, I fully understand that there are those who can't, or shouldn't, imbibe.}