WootBot


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Schooled in winemaking in both Germany and California, winemaker Scott Harvey was crucial to putting Amador County on the California wine map in the 1980s. After years spent propelling such wineries as Santino, Renwood, and Folie a Deux to success, he launched his own Scott Harvey Wines with his wife Jana in 2004. We're thrilled to have him take over the regular Wine.Woot guest blogger position. Peter Wellington will continue as an occasional contributor.

Since I’ve had such a good time participating on the Wine Woot blog, WineDavid asked me if I would submit fun and informational blogs like Peter Wellington has in his wonderful Random Ramblings. His will be a hard act to follow.

For the last week I’ve been working on getting label approvals from the TTB (Tax & Trade Bureau). All wine labels have to be inspected and approved by the federal government. As with most federal bureaus these days, they are extremely over worked. I have submitted labels they have previously approved, only to be rejected this time. It seems a lot is left to interpretation by the individual inspector. I have also had rejected labels, where I waited a month to send them in again, come back with the TTB stamp of approval. You learn not to argue with them. Just do what they ask and be very polite. Kind of like in-laws.

A good example is our fortified wine we call Forté. It is a fortified wine made just like you would make Port in Portugal from all Portuguese varieties. As a European trained wine maker I will not use European place names on our wines. So we call the wine “Forté” rather than Port. In 2004 when I first obtained label approval for this wine the back label said “A California Port Style Wine.” This time the term “A California Port Style Wine” was rejected. They said I had to use “Red Table Wine”. I said, “It is not red table wine, it is a fortified wine”. They said I could not use the word fortified on a wine label so therefore had to use “Red Table Wine” I pointed out to them that that would be lying to the consumer. They didn’t seem to care, stating that was the regulation.

Potayto, Potahto
Knowing that using “Red Table Wine” on this wine would be a marketing nightmare, I politely ask what other alternatives there were. TTB said I could list the varieties and their percentages. So I re-submitted the label with the percentages and the varieties. It was again rejected. I again politely called them and asked them why. They said one of the varieties “Sousao” did not exist in their list of accepted wine varieties. I’m thinking that’s odd, it is a fairly common variety in Portugal. I was thinking, it has to exist and kept questioning the inspector for a good 20 minutes, before I finally asked if he had a variety on the list spelled somewhat like Sousao. He looked at the list and said there is one spelled Souzao. I go great, I’ll re-submit with Souzao and it was finally approved.

Another example of a label coming before different inspectors with their telling me I had to do contradicting things is with our Napa Valley Old Vine Riesling. I moved the production of this wine to one of Cosentino’s Wineries in Lockeford which is near Lodi. I wanted the produced and bottled by statement on the back of the bottle to reflect that we are a Napa Valley Company. Rather than just saying “Produced and Bottled by Jana Winery, Lockeford, CA” I had the statement read “Produced and bottled by Jana Winery, Lockeford, CA for Jana Winery, Napa Valley, CA.” On the first bottling this statement was accepted. The next year when I sent it in the new inspector rejected it. Again, after a 20 minute polite phone call I finally got it out of the inspector why he was rejecting it. He decided that the place had to be a city not a place, so Napa Valley was unacceptable since it carries no postal address. Luckily, there is a town in Napa Valley by the name of Napa. So I asked him if I dropped the Valley off of it to read “Produced and bottled by Jana Winery, Lockeford, CA for Jana Winery Napa, Ca” if that was okay. I sent it in again hoping he would get the application and not the first inspector that approved the previous one. He got it and it was approved.

For another label story, more dealing with the development of our Angel Ice Riesling, check out this post on our blog about what we went through to develop the art work and name for the wine.

The regulatory world is quite complicated for wineries, and always a learning experience. Makes me glad I’m not a lawyer!

WineDavid, thanks for this opportunity to further reach out to the wine woot community.


andyduncan


quality posts: 32 Private Messages andyduncan

Scott who? I'm sure nobody on this site is aware of this Mr. Harvey.

I'm putting WD's kids through college.

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj

Never heard of the guy.





Well, OK, maybe I have. Welcome, and I look forward to reading your blogs!

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

joekerjr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages joekerjr

Yeah, great thanks Something else to do at work other than work. Read your post here Scott, theeeeeeeen I read your blog on Angel Ice. NOW I want to buy some. So yeah, great, thanks Something else to spend money on.

Cesare


quality posts: 1674 Private Messages Cesare

Welcome Scott! Your label stories are interesting. I think you mentioned having trouble with the Superhero InZinerator labels, maybe you could tell us about that.
Being a winemaker isn't just about making the wine as we have learned from Peter in the past. Glad you decided to blog here.

-il Cesare
Sole Absolute Triple
Exalted High Tastemaster Supreme
“In the entire world there are only a few sounds that bring joy to all but the most jaded. One is the murmur of a kitten purring. Another is the thwack of a well-pitched baseball hitting a perfectly swung bat. And the third is the pop of a cork being pulled from a bottle of wine.” —George Taber

boaz38


quality posts: 2 Private Messages boaz38

Welcome Scott, I will be padding your account very soon, purchasing a case of Inzinerator but am on the fence. The question is how different is the 06 from the 04? Everyone in my house loves the 04 but when I told them you had only a few cases left, "mutiny" was the cry. Help me, help you. cheers

yumitori


quality posts: 22 Private Messages yumitori


I have friends who make commercial fruit wines, and I recall some of their stories about the difficulties in getting their labels approved. But I don't recall them talking about going through the process every year. Maybe the pain is too much to talk about.

Is it typical to have to have your labels re-approved every year, or are you make changes to them? If the latter, how much of a change triggers the process? Can you use just the new vintage year and change nothing else to avoid resubmitting for approval?


themostrighteous


quality posts: 12 Private Messages themostrighteous

welcome, Scott!!! first Peter, now you. awesome coup, WD!!!!

do you know... what biodynamics is?

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98

So would you say the label approval process is more or less convoluted than the wine shipping laws?

Welcome to the blogosphere, Scott!!

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

bhodilee


quality posts: 32 Private Messages bhodilee
andyduncan wrote:Scott who? I'm sure nobody on this site is aware of this Mr. Harvey.



six foot tall, big ears, invisible. how could you miss him?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

rpm


quality posts: 177 Private Messages rpm

Scott, Welcome! Great label stories. Next explain the process of getting labels approved in each state.... (sigh!)

Great to see you here!!

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

coynedj


quality posts: 7 Private Messages coynedj
rpm wrote:
Great to see you here!!



Not if he's invisible:

bhodilee wrote:six foot tall, big ears, invisible. how could you miss him?


I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff. Bob Dylan, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues

How on earth did I get 7 QPs?

hookajoe


quality posts: 11 Private Messages hookajoe

Great to hear more from you Scott. I love reading about how you make it happen behind the scenes!

By the way, my wife and I ordered your Mountain Selection postcard deal a while back, and that Syrah blew our socks off! We got your email today, and are now trying to decide how many more bottles to order! Thanks again!

MaskedMarvel


quality posts: 11 Private Messages MaskedMarvel
rpm wrote:Scott, Welcome! Great label stories. Next explain the process of getting labels approved in each state.... (sigh!)

Great to see you here!!



First of all- I'm very excited about Scott blogging for us. I've benefited heavily from Peter's writing, and I can't wait for another perspective.

Secondly - to reply to RPM's post - INDEED! I was really saddened when the InZinerator (superhero label) was unavailable to NC'ers due to the label, alone. I'd never heard of a label's IMAGE being the reasoning behind the exclusion. I feel I really missed out on that one..


canonizer


quality posts: 22 Private Messages canonizer

Scott, thank you for joining us. Could talk about planting and using Italian varietals in Ca?

signed.

borisgoodenough


quality posts: 4 Private Messages borisgoodenough

Hi Scott,

Speaking of your adventures in label-making, how about retelling the story behind a certain Santino TBA Riesling?

Still one 375 of the '86 in the cellar...

Joel from MichWine

Tourigaman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Tourigaman

Welcome Scott! Been drinking your wines for many years and met you at a UCD extension class years ago. Look forward to your comments.

Steve from Folsom,CA
Home Winegrower & consumer!

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink

Scott:
Thanks for carrying the educational torch for the woot community; should we call this “Ramblings 102” and SB would be “101” or are we progressing to 200 level courses in our studies?

I digress, anyway I wanted to relay a brief and somewhat parallel story with another government agency that your story about the Sousao/Souzao reminded me of. It seems that with most government entities they are limited to one of two answers, “yes” or “no”. There typically isn’t a “no, but if you change it to ‘this’ then it’s a yes” in their lexicon. From the patent office, to the trademark office or even the FAA it’s “approved” or “rejected” no middle ground.

Where my story is going is I was flying in a Cessna 172 with a flight instructor, and we were attempting to take a short cut across some Class B airspace (think of a big major airport) close enough to the airport where the airspace went all the way down to the surface; [for those of you who are pilots you know about the tiered “upside-down wedding cake” where you can fly under the controlled airspace depending how close you are to the Class B airport.]

When it comes to flying in controlled airspace Air Traffic Control is king, and what they say goes. Well, we radioed in our intentions upon approaching the airspace and this happened to be occurring during a lull between “pushes” of the cycle of arrivals and departures many airports have. There was some traffic but they weren’t lined up for approach on parallel runways 4-5 deep miles out. The initial reply was “negative”, we radioed back with another variant of the request, and again the answer was “negative”. Finally my instructor radioed and simply asked something to the effect, “Tower, are there any options that will allow us to traverse on or close to our current vector?” And then we go a reply along the lines of “If you decrease altitude to zero-two-five (2500 feet) you can maintain current course and heading.” Our next call was “Tower, request decent to two-thousand-five-hundred feet”, to which the response was “Approved, decent to two-thousand-five-hundred, and maintain current heading.”

Air Traffic Controllers are some of the nicest people in the world, in reality their job is to help expedite you to where YOU have decided to go (as in an ending point) sometimes they have to vector you for safety purposes but they will almost always give you help if you ask for it properly. He could have easily asked us to go around the airspace but he had us go to an altitude where we would not affect any current airport operations as we made our journey.
Scott, had you not asked if there was a close or different spelling it would still be rejected, when they get into that robot mode it’s a 1 or a 0 it can never be 1.5 where they can think for themselves and provide feedback.

I have another similar story as a passenger in a small jet trying to get into a “bee-hive” major airport where they approved us to land without an initial clearance, but that’s a bit longer and for another day.

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damightyanteater


quality posts: 12 Private Messages damightyanteater

Welcome Mr. Harvey!

Great fist blog and I look forward to reading more.

    My last 5 woots:
  • Robert Craig Mount Veeder Cabernet Sauvignon x2
  • Woot Cellars Boss Monster Zinfandel Six - Pack
  • Armida Winery Poizin Trio
  • Olivestri Siloro olio nuovo
  • Wellington Vineyard Designate Cabernet Trio

ddeuddeg


quality posts: 32 Private Messages ddeuddeg

Scott,
It's a real thrill to see you joining the blog on a regular basis, even if it might cost me a bit more in the long run. After visiting you in July, tasting a lot of really terrific wine, even getting to play guinea pig as you were tinkering with the pH on one of your upcoming releases, I've developed such a respect for your wines, and thus for your opinions, that I haven't been able to resist an offer once you come on the board with a positive comment. I'm looking forward to learning more and more with you making a regular contribution here. Welcome!

"Always keep a bottle of Champagne in the fridge for special occasions. Sometimes the special occasion is that you've got a bottle of Champagne in the fridge". - Hester Browne


Ddeuddeg's Cheesecake Cookbook

spdrcr05


quality posts: 30 Private Messages spdrcr05

Scott,

Very much looking forward to your more "formal" contributions. You active participation in the forums has been most welcome!

In periods of profound change, the most dangerous thing is to incrementalize yourself into the future -- Thomas Edision

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
Cesare wrote:Welcome Scott! Your label stories are interesting. I think you mentioned having trouble with the Superhero InZinerator labels, maybe you could tell us about that.
Being a winemaker isn't just about making the wine as we have learned from Peter in the past. Glad you decided to blog here.



The Inzinerator was approved by the TTB but outlawed in the state of North Carolina. They said the label was to much like Joe Camel.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
boaz38 wrote:Welcome Scott, I will be padding your account very soon, purchasing a case of Inzinerator but am on the fence. The question is how different is the 06 from the 04? Everyone in my house loves the 04 but when I told them you had only a few cases left, "mutiny" was the cry. Help me, help you. cheers



The 04 Inzinerator is 76% Zinfandel and 24% Barbera. It has .8% residual suager which is from grape concentrate. The 06 is 76% zinfandel, 21% Syrah and 3% Forte. It has 2% residual sugar that comes from our port style wine we call Forte. So the 06 has higher residual sugar that is beter integrated because it is from the Forte. The Syrah gives the wine a richer more extractive center palate. Concentrate adds a carmel or cooked character because that is how it is made. By using our Forte I've avoided that character in the 06.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
yumitori wrote:I have friends who make commercial fruit wines, and I recall some of their stories about the difficulties in getting their labels approved. But I don't recall them talking about going through the process every year. Maybe the pain is too much to talk about.

Is it typical to have to have your labels re-approved every year, or are you make changes to them? If the latter, how much of a change triggers the process? Can you use just the new vintage year and change nothing else to avoid resubmitting for approval?



You don't have to get new label approval if all your are changing is the vintage and alcohol if it stays within the same tax class. i.e. below or above 14%

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
cheron98 wrote:So would you say the label approval process is more or less convoluted than the wine shipping laws?

Welcome to the blogosphere, Scott!!



Wine shipping laws are way worse. We are dealing with 50 different counties. It is easier to ship wine frem Germany to England than it is to ship wine from California to Nevada.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
rpm wrote:Scott, Welcome! Great label stories. Next explain the process of getting labels approved in each state.... (sigh!)

Great to see you here!!



I leave that up to our competent office manager, Carla. Every state is different. Some states require it and some do not and it is always changing.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
canonizer wrote:Scott, thank you for joining us. Could talk about planting and using Italian varietals in Ca?



Great idea for the next blog, Thanks.

jwhite6114


quality posts: 119 Private Messages jwhite6114
ScottHarveyWines wrote:The Inzinerator was approved by the TTB but outlawed in the state of North Carolina. They said the label was to much like Joe Camel.



I'd say there is some irony in North Carolina rejecting your label because it was like "Joe Camel", but they've probably become a little gun-shy since the whole Joe Camel marketing campaign.

I do want to echo others' comments welcoming you to the blogosphere! It was a tremendous pleasure to meet you last summer, and I look forward to reading more of your stories over the coming months.

CT | | | | | |

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
borisgoodenough wrote:Hi Scott,

Speaking of your adventures in label-making, how about retelling the story behind a certain Santino TBA Riesling?

Still one 375 of the '86 in the cellar...

Joel from MichWine



Back in 1986 I made a trokenbeerenauslese Riesling harvested from the Madronna vineyard I helped plant in 1972. The grapes where 100% botrytis infected and the brix started out at 65 brix. It was a true Trokenbeerenauslese on the high end. Legally we can not use the term trokenbeerenaulese, only wine from Germany is allowed to use the term. I had no problem with that so on the fornt label I just put the letters "TBA". On the back label I wrote "Totally Botrytis Affected" The inspector, not having any knowlege of German wines, approved the label.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines

[quote postid="2923269" user="jwink"]Scott:
Thanks for carrying the educational torch for the woot community; should we call this “Ramblings 102” and SB would be “101” or are we progressing to 200 level courses in our studies?

I don't know what we should call this bog. Let's have the wooters make suggestions and have Wine David pick one. The one that Wine David picks I'll send a signed magnum of the InZinerator too. That is, if Wine David agrees to it and if it is leagl.

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98

So I was reading the "Experiencing Wine for Dummies" book that was on during the woot-off a time or two back, and it said something along the lines of:

Wines at 14% ABV and below are considered "Table Wines"
Wines at 14.1% ABV and above are considered "Dessert Wines"

And that according to the US Regulations, must be labeled as such. Now, I know I've seen wines > 14% ABV labeled as "Table Wines". The book was printed in 2005 - did the regulations change since then, or is the book just full of bs?

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

yumitori


quality posts: 22 Private Messages yumitori
ScottHarveyWines wrote:

I don't know what we should call this bog. Let's have the wooters make suggestions and have Wine David pick one. The one that Wine David picks I'll send a signed magnum of the InZinerator too. That is, if Wine David agrees to it and if it is leagl.



My vote is for Great Scott!!



ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
cheron98 wrote:So I was reading the "Experiencing Wine for Dummies" book that was on during the woot-off a time or two back, and it said something along the lines of:

Wines at 14% ABV and below are considered "Table Wines"
Wines at 14.1% ABV and above are considered "Dessert Wines"

And that according to the US Regulations, must be labeled as such. Now, I know I've seen wines > 14% ABV labeled as "Table Wines". The book was printed in 2005 - did the regulations change since then, or is the book just full of bs?



I just filed for three label approvals on a wine we produce called "One Last Kiss" Two were for a 2007 and 2008 Rose and one for a 2006 Red Blend. The Rose's are both under 14% alcohol while the red blend is over 14%. On the Rose's I put "Rose Table Wine" and on the red blend I put "Red Table Wine". I found out his morning the Rose's were both approved but the red blend was rejected. Because the red blend is over 14% and they deem that desert wine I'm not allowed to write "Red Tabel Wine" but only allowed to say "Red Wine" or "Red Desert Wine" This time they told me how to fix it without me having to call them.

jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink

Scott:

Can you elaborate more about your arrangement with 45 North and how you’re selling their wines? They are a newer winery to the county. I know the Leelanau Peninsula all too well it’s truly is my second home with my parents now living in the county essentially full-time.

Do you guys do a “wine exchange”, did they have surplus they were looking to help sell? On the Finger Lakes board you mentioned you got some Riesling grapes and made it in Napa, was this just a straight rebranding situation? Just curious to learn even more how this all came about (beyond what is in the description). I agree that that appellation could ultimately rival Germany for Riesling quality because of the climate…...it’s just too bad there aren’t more dry versions available as you know most tend to be the sweet dessert variety. I haven’t had this one yet, I’m guessing there is one in a 45 North bottle? I should be able to find it locally if there is.

IMO I don’t think there is any better ice wine than what comes from Leelanau County or Old Mission Peninsula; yes I’m a homer when it comes to that. Let us know if you make regular trips to Northern Michigan, I’m sure we could find a sizable group (probably headed by cheron) to meet up with you and show you around.

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jwink


quality posts: 39 Private Messages jwink
ScottHarveyWines wrote:[quote postid="2923269" user="jwink"]Scott:
Thanks for carrying the educational torch for the woot community; should we call this “Ramblings 102” and SB would be “101” or are we progressing to 200 level courses in our studies?

I don't know what we should call this bog. Let's have the wooters make suggestions and have Wine David pick one. The one that Wine David picks I'll send a signed magnum of the InZinerator too. That is, if Wine David agrees to it and if it is leagl.



WD my suggestions for your consideration are:

1) Random Wineblings v.2 (take off of the original name)
2) Winemaking 102 (or 201)
3) 'Don"JANA"ow' or 'Don't "Jana" know' or 'dohJANAow'. Trying to say "don't yah know" using a play on the Jana brand and Scott's wife. It can be altered slightly but I think you get the idea.
4) Wooter? Winemaker? BOTH!
5) Harvey's Huffs

Possibly more to come if I ponder further.

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Collegebob


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Collegebob

Hi Scott glad to see you on wine.woot. They forgot to mention your start at Montevina back in the 70's. I have followed you since then. I know that whatever comments you make are to be believed as you are a man of integrity. Your stories about labeling reminded me of several stories by some dude's uncle Arrowood regarding his select late harvest wines and labeling problems with BATF. Like your examples it shows the ignorance of those approving our wine labels. Looking forwards to your posts. Bob Miller(former WINO Director)

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines

[quote postid="2925265" user="jwink"]Scott:

Can you elaborate more about your arrangement with 45 North and how you’re selling their wines?

Having been trained as a cold climate winemaker and being a Riesling nut I just can't resist making a cold climate Riesling when I get the chance. I'm also a judge at the Michigan State Wine competition. In the the case with the Finger Lakes Riesling, having the grapes shipped to Napa proved to be to expensive and also labeling requirments don't allow the wine to have a vinatge or State Appellation on the bottle if you transport grapes across more than one state line. You have to label the wine with "American." So, I decided to make the next wine at a winery in Michigan. I realized from the judging that Shawn Walters is the best new young winemaker in Michigan. He had just started with 45 North when I got to know him. So he did all the work. I went to Travers City and picked out the vineyard for the wine. From there we did everything by overnight delivery. I showed Shawn the style of wine I wanted to make. He monitored the vineyard and he when thought the grapes were ready, he overnighted them to me. I tasted the grapes the next day and ran my lab test on them and then decided on when to pull the triger to pick. The winemaking process was done much the same way. By making the wine in Michigan I could label the wine with both the vinatge date and the appellation. The New york Riesling ended up being labeled with "Lot 20NY05" and I wrote "Empire State" on the label.
If you can get some of Shawn's wines from 45 North, they are well made. His fast growing medal count attest to this as well. Last year at the National orange Show we gave his Riesling best white of show.

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines
Collegebob wrote:Hi Scott glad to see you on wine.woot. They forgot to mention your start at Montevina back in the 70's. I have followed you since then. I know that whatever comments you make are to be believed as you are a man of integrity. Your stories about labeling reminded me of several stories by some dude's uncle Arrowood regarding his select late harvest wines and labeling problems with BATF. Like your examples it shows the ignorance of those approving our wine labels. Looking forwards to your posts. Bob Miller(former WINO Director)




Hi Bob,
I think it was some dude's uncle Arrowood who first used the letters TBA on a bottle of late harvest wine.

cheron98


quality posts: 123 Private Messages cheron98
ScottHarveyWines wrote:Having been trained as a cold climate winemaker and being a Riesling nut I just can't resist making a cold climate Riesling when I get the chance. I'm also a judge at the Michigan State Wine competition. In the the case with the Finger Lakes Riesling, having the grapes shipped to Napa proved to be to expensive and also labeling requirments don't allow the wine to have a vinatge or State Appellation on the bottle if you transport grapes across more than one state line. You have to label the wine with "American." So, I decided to make the next wine at a winery in Michigan. I realized from the judging that Shawn Walters is the best new young winemaker in Michigan. He had just started with 45 North when I got to know him. So he did all the work. I went to Travers City and picked out the vineyard for the wine. From there we did everything by overnight delivery. I showed Shawn the style of wine I wanted to make. He monitored the vineyard and he when thought the grapes were ready, he overnighted them to me. I tasted the grapes the next day and ran my lab test on them and then decided on when to pull the triger to pick. The winemaking process was done much the same way. By making the wine in Michigan I could label the wine with both the vinatge date and the appellation. The New york Riesling ended up being labeled with "Lot 20NY05" and I wrote "Empire State" on the label.
If you can get some of Shawn's wines from 45 North, they are well made. His fast growing medal count attest to this as well. Last year at the National orange Show we gave his Riesling best white of show.



Well I clearly missed something somewhere. I smell a Detroiter road trip to 45 North

I saw HitAnyKey42 on wine.woot! and clicked "I want one!"

ScottHarveyWines


quality posts: 157 Private Messages ScottHarveyWines

Hi Bob,
I think it was Richard Arrowood who first used the letters TBA on a bottle of late harvest wine.