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El Brujo - Fri. June 20, 2008

It’s official, this has been the driest spring in N. California recorded history. It’s also been one of the coolest, so the vines aren’t showing any signs of moisture stress yet. Shoot growth is well below normal for this time of year in all the vineyards I’ve looked at in Sonoma Valley and bloom is later than usual. It’s been a lot windier than normal, too. Farmers always talk about the weather anyway, but it sure has been a strange year so far. I don’t have any idea of what’s in store for the rest of the growing season because I don’t have my own personal weather forecaster anymore.

Enrico “Joe” Gallo sold us our vineyard in 1986. His father-in-law, Ben Biehler, had planted it, starting in 1892, and Joe started working with Ben when he married Ben’s daughter in 1933. Joe lived in wine country all his life, and right across the street from our winery from 1935 until his passing ten years ago. I have never met an American who was more in tune with the earth than Joe. He knew which doe had given birth to twins the previous year, when and where certain mushrooms would appear, etc. He paid attention to bird, animal and plant behavior and used that, along with other signs, to predict both short and long term weather with startling precision. Several of the old-time growers in the area asked him regularly for predictions. His predictions made the NWS look like they were using a ouija board.

Over the years Joe taught me where the worst frost spots were, ripening sequences, soil variations and how to identify all the grape varieties. He offered wisdom, opinion, a lot of history and lore, and his two cents worth on politics, sports, sex and religion. He was individualistic and open-minded and had strong moral values that combined very socialistic left wing ideas with a bit of far-right libertarianism. He doused wells, including ours (seemingly unlimited), scared away government employees, and, best of all, predicted the weather so well that my vineyard guys took to calling him El Brujo.

Joe used to come over and tell me it was going to rain on such and such a date, and I only half way paid attention, thinking it was just the ramblings of my retired, somewhat bored neighbor. After a couple of years I started paying more attention because it seemed like he was often right. Once I started writing down his predictions I realized he had abnormal abilities and was pretty much always right. Time after time he predicted rain weeks in advance, to the day, or, at worst, one day off. Droughts, floods, date of last frost – he didn’t predict, he knew. I’ll never forget Oct.3rd the year before he died. He drove over on a very warm, cloudless afternoon (he wasn’t walking much at that point) to apologize for the mistaken prediction he had made in late August that we would have our first real rain of the season on Oct. 3rd. A storm had passed well north of Sonoma and was headed over the Sierra Nevada on its way east. The NWS was predicting clear and warm for the next week plus. Oct. 4th we awoke to heavy rain; in a rare occurrence the storm had come back from the east. I once asked Joe, very diplomatically, if he would consider sharing his methods with me, passing them on to another generation. He had already told me of 3 day and 7 day cycles, moon phases, watching the migratory birds and the oak trees, but I asked him if he might describe how he integrated all those factors. He came back the next day and said he had started to write stuff down but got to the point where he realized “ultimately it comes from here” (touching his heart). I still miss you, Rico.
 

Take My Wine, Please - Tues. July 1, 2008

Thanks to Penkauskasd for the following questions: “I'm particularly interested in your distribution channels and the regulations you struggle under. Who can you sell to? (distributors, restaurants, direct to consumers, w00t, retail stores, etc,) Why would you sell in that channel? What are the regulations? Why do the regulations differ? Who benefits from restricting your channels?”

In California, our state winemaking license allows us to sell retail (from a maximum of two locations), direct to restaurants and retailers and to distributors. When prohibition was repealed by constitutional amendment in 1933, the states were directed to write their own liquor laws, including drinking age limitations and how, when, where, and by whom alcohol could be sold. Naturally, in every state, distributors “influenced” their legislators to write laws that gave them as much of a monopoly as possible under the law. Illinois is the first state to reverse this policy at all, with a “self distribution” law that went into effect June 1, 2008, allowing small out-of-state wineries to sell direct to restaurants and retailers. Until the Supreme Court decision a couple of years ago, we could sell direct to consumers in only 11 “reciprocal” states, most without restriction. Many of the states have had to rewrite their laws in light of the court decision, and this has opened up a number of states for retail sales and shipping. Ironically, some of the former reciprocal states have become more restrictive and controlled.

Direct to consumer is generally the most profitable venue for us, but shipping is much costlier and less efficient for small amounts than larger shipments to distributors. Also, distributors actively market our wine in their states, resulting in much higher sales volume, albeit at a lower per case return. Cult wineries like Williams-Selyem or Screaming Eagle can sell almost all their wine at retail, but most of us need to sell to restaurants and retailers, and to use distributors to do so.

The federal government’s greatest interest in the alcohol industry is revenue collection (the ATT collects more money per dollar of its budget than any other govt. agency, including the IRS), and that is an important concern for many states as well. We have a lot of reporting and tax paying to do for most states where we distribute or sell direct.

Finally regarding who benefits from restricting our channels? The national wholesalers’ organization spends a huge amount of money lobbying against any law changes that would lessen their control of wine sales. It does put a lot of small wineries in a bind because there aren’t enough distributors for all the brands now in existence, and alternative channels still don’t exist in many states.


hardground


quality posts: 2 Private Messages hardground
It does put a lot of small wineries in a bind because there aren’t enough distributors for all the brands now in existence, and alternative channels still don’t exist in many states.


My first thought on this was "Well, that must mean there are too many brands and too much wine being made." But, Europeans have a higher per-capita consumption than we do *and* they export a ton, so there's still room for more, I think (or maybe I'm wrong...is it a demand issue?).

How does our distribution model differ from Italy/France/Spain? Does theirs foster smaller brands and more diversity? Is it comparable enough that we can learn some lessons?

A great post, SB. Thanks again for the insight.

Why is there so much wine left at the end of my money?

jkwatson


quality posts: 1 Private Messages jkwatson

Is there anything we as consumers can do to help the issue? Some place we can send emails? Fixing a broken wine distribution model seems like a monumental task.

--
Calling on passionate wine amateurs: http://wineamateurs.wordpress.com

canonizer


quality posts: 22 Private Messages canonizer

Is there a pride factor for being on certain restaurant lists? I feel like good restaurants can make up for small marketing budgets if they actually care about their wine lists enough to get consumers enthusiastic about wine.

I remember right after I wooted Seghesio I was thrilled to see it on landmarc's list in ny.

Anyway, thank you for your wonderfully compelling post. Will lift the glass for Mr. Gallo tonight.

signed.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
hardground wrote:My first thought on this was "Well, that must mean there are too many brands and too much wine being made." But, Europeans have a higher per-capita consumption than we do *and* they export a ton, so there's still room for more, I think (or maybe I'm wrong...is it a demand issue?).

How does our distribution model differ from Italy/France/Spain? Does theirs foster smaller brands and more diversity? Is it comparable enough that we can learn some lessons?

A great post, SB. Thanks again for the insight.



Per capita consumption has been falling in western Europe for decades, which has increased pressure to export to places like the U.S. where consumption is increasing. It has also led to EU programs that pay growers to remove vineyards. There are no legal limits or restrictions on vineyard acreage outside the EU, so vineyard acreage has increased in the US, Australia and New Zealand, South America, etc. More European brands exporting + new brands from other parts of the world + new US brands + fewer distributors = a buyers market as far as distributors are concerned.

The two challenges small producers face are regulations and representation. In the US we have a lot more legal restriction going state to state than EU wineries have going country to country. Marketing "muscle" is an issue for small producers everywhere; that's why distributors exist in all states and countries. As far as marketing foreign wine in this country, small producers typically sell to an importer (like Jorge Ordonez or Kermit Lynch) who sells many brands to distributors. From a compliance and marketing standpoint, it's as if all the different brands came from one winery.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
jkwatson wrote:Is there anything we as consumers can do to help the issue? Some place we can send emails? Fixing a broken wine distribution model seems like a monumental task.

--
Calling on passionate wine amateurs: http://wineamateurs.wordpress.com



freethegrapes.org and others have been mentioned regularly in the wine.woot forums.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
canonizer wrote:Is there a pride factor for being on certain restaurant lists? I feel like good restaurants can make up for small marketing budgets if they actually care about their wine lists enough to get consumers enthusiastic about wine.

I remember right after I wooted Seghesio I was thrilled to see it on landmarc's list in ny.

Anyway, thank you for your wonderfully compelling post. Will lift the glass for Mr. Gallo tonight.



The term in the wine trade is "key accounts". High profile restaurant (and retail to a lesser extent) placements not only lend prestige, they also help sales elsewhwere. A wine BTG (by the glass) in a good restaurant can fuel a lot of wine shop sales.

penkauskasd


quality posts: 0 Private Messages penkauskasd

Great response, Peter!

It's gotta be tough to conduct business under such restrictive rules. On the other hand - you live in Sonoma Valley, own your own business, and make/drink wine for a living. How bad can it be? *grin*

Lighter


quality posts: 10 Private Messages Lighter

Is there a point at which you irrigate?

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
penkauskasd wrote:Great response, Peter!

It's gotta be tough to conduct business under such restrictive rules. On the other hand - you live in Sonoma Valley, own your own business, and make/drink wine for a living. How bad can it be? *grin*



Ya gotta take the rough with the smooth

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
Lighter wrote:Is there a point at which you irrigate?




We started irrigating several weeks earlier this year, but so far haven't been irrigating as much as usual because tempertures have been well below average. When it does get hot we irrigate more frequantly and more heavily. We can't irrigate the old vines and I am concerned they may run out of gas before the final stage of ripening.

hardground


quality posts: 2 Private Messages hardground
SonomaBouliste wrote:We started irrigating several weeks earlier this year, but so far haven't been irrigating as much as usual because tempertures have been well below average. When it does get hot we irrigate more frequantly and more heavily. We can't irrigate the old vines and I am concerned they may run out of gas before the final stage of ripening.


I'll bite: why can't you irrigate old vines? At what age can they no longer take water?

Happy 4th!

Why is there so much wine left at the end of my money?

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
hardground wrote:I'll bite: why can't you irrigate old vines? At what age can they no longer take water?

Happy 4th!



You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades.

MaskedMarvel


quality posts: 11 Private Messages MaskedMarvel
SonomaBouliste wrote:You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades.



Peter -

Great read, as always. Thank you.

My dad visited a few wineries in the old days, and swears he saw a wine maker hitting the vines with a baseball bat to "stress" the vine into forcing more energy into grape production. While this seems extreme, I can see the reduced water as a method of reducing rot, fungus, and smaller/tighter grape clusters for heightened concentration of flavours.

Obviously, if there's no water at all, they aren't going to produce, but can't these conditions yield very favourable (although less) juice?

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
MaskedMarvel wrote:Peter -

Great read, as always. Thank you.

My dad visited a few wineries in the old days, and swears he saw a wine maker hitting the vines with a baseball bat to "stress" the vine into forcing more energy into grape production. While this seems extreme, I can see the reduced water as a method of reducing rot, fungus, and smaller/tighter grape clusters for heightened concentration of flavours.

Obviously, if there's no water at all, they aren't going to produce, but can't these conditions yield very favourable (although less) juice?



Too much water is bad for quality, but so is too little water. The French tend to be negative about California wines for many reasons, including that we irrigate. It rains in most French growing reasons during spring and summer, and the vines can't tell if the water came from a cloud or a drip hose. We can best control vine water status and vigor by using drought susceptible rootstocks and careful irrigation.

canonizer


quality posts: 22 Private Messages canonizer
SonomaBouliste wrote:Too much water is bad for quality, but so is too little water. The French tend to be negative about California wines for many reasons, including that we irrigate. It rains in most French growing reasons during spring and summer, and the vines can't tell if the water came from a cloud or a drip hose. We can best control vine water status and vigor by using drought susceptible rootstocks and careful irrigation.



Yes, but do you beat your vines up when they're acting naughty?

signed.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
canonizer wrote:Yes, but do you beat your vines up when they're acting naughty?



Well, not the vines themselves, but....

Random Ridge
Random wines from random vines
Marquis Billy Random, Vinemaster

1994 was a torturous year; the vines suffered even more than usual, but we managed to whip them into shape by the time harvest came around. The grapes for this particular wine were slashed from the vine on a cold, dreary September morning, crammed into a bin, stomped on, and then bounced to the winery in back of a pick-up. After being tumbled mercilessly and pressed until they burst, the grapes were then dumped in the middle of a cold field without a second thought. A different fate altogether awaited the juice. Forced to exist on nothing more than dirt from Wyoming and a little yeast, it was imprisoned all Winter in small barrels in a cold, damp cellar. Its spirit finally broken, the wine was sufficiently submissive to be bottled in July of this year. We think you’ll find this wine to be restrained, with the smell of fear, somewhat lean of body and extremely obedient. It should go quite well with mashed potatoes, whipped cream, and beats.

damightyanteater


quality posts: 12 Private Messages damightyanteater

A great read as always, PW. Can you speak a bit about what type/character of wines the weather conditions will produce for you?

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SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
damightyanteater wrote:A great read as always, PW. Can you speak a bit about what type/character of wines the weather conditions will produce for you?



It could be a negative for the old dry farmed vineyards. It will be positive for one block of one of the vineyards we buy from that tends to have too much soil moisture late into the season. In terms of general quality and character, the weather the week before harvest is most important, the weather the week before that the next most important, etc.

rpm


quality posts: 150 Private Messages rpm
SonomaBouliste wrote:You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades.



There always seem to be strong feelings about whether or not to irrigate in Sonoma and Napa. If I recall correctly, Frogs Leap is very much into dry farming - you might want to talk with Frank Leeds about it on Wednesday if you can join us there.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

iByron


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SonomaBouliste wrote:You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades.



What is it about the old vines that would allow irrigation systems but not other irrigation methods?

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SonomaBouliste


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iByron wrote:What is it about the old vines that would allow irrigation systems but not other irrigation methods?



The only other irrigation method I can think of is Mother Nature (rain or flood). I guess I don't understand your question.

SonomaBouliste


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rpm wrote:There always seem to be strong feelings about whether or not to irrigate in Sonoma and Napa. If I recall correctly, Frogs Leap is very much into dry farming - you might want to talk with Frank Leeds about it on Wednesday if you can join us there.



I prefer to have a way of compensating for the large variations of natural rainfall. If you dry farm you have to use extremely vigorous, drought resistant rootstock. When you get a wet year like 1998 (an El Nino year, with serious rain all the way into mid-June) those vines keep growing actively all the way to harvest, compromising quality. The trick is to irrigate properly, producing enough leaves to get the job done, creating proper water stress between bloom and veraison, then maintaining enough green leaves through harvest. Many growers, even those with wineries, overwater. I think it's psychological - they don't think they're good farmers if their vines look stressed. Growers who sell grapes can also have a hard time doing anything that reduces tonnage.
I always get a kick out of wine dogma and the American tendency to take things to extremes. A common attitude in our society is that if something is good, more of it is better. Hummers, Hot Sauce From Hell, and Parker's "bigger is better, biggest is best " approach to reviewing wine, etc.... When Richard Smart introduced the concept of "Sunlight into Wine" to California in the 1990's some people went so overboard it was ridiculous. The idea is that grapes need some light to develop good flavors and color. If your vines are overly vigorous and the grapes in total shade, quality suffers. So, naturally, some growers removed every single leaf on the first 12-18 inches of every shoot, leaving their grape clusters exposed to full sun all day long. This resulted in very high fruit temperatures, basically cooking the flavor out of the grapes. I have to chuckle a bit when I hear winemakers focus on a single grapegrowing or winemaking practice without putting it in the context of everything else they are doing. Whether it's "hang time", "physiological maturity", cold soaking, extended maceration, or whatever, if winemakers use a dogmatic, formulaic approach they are going to compromise quality in some of their wines.

rpm


quality posts: 150 Private Messages rpm
SonomaBouliste wrote:....Many growers, even those with wineries, overwater. I think it's psychological - they don't think they're good farmers if their vines look stressed. Growers who sell grapes can also have a hard time doing anything that reduces tonnage.....



Ah, yes, indeed. Winemakers like fruit from vines that haven't overproduced (think of the low yields of century old Zinfandel vines, but that's a bit extreme), but if you're growing grapes you want to maximize production, subject to keeping quality high enough to keep your price high enough. The tension between quality and production is always there -- especially in wonderful years where there is an overabundance of wonderful fruit: ultimately great for the wine drinker, but often not so wonderful for the grape grower who doesn't have a contract and sells spot (do people still do that?)

I also agree with your critique of the tendency to follow whatever trend or idea is hot pretty near all the way to reductio ad absurdam. I guess what little I know I learned from the old guys, and the really old guys, for whom balance was key. It's hard to get it right, and Mother Nature can sometimes need a little help. Drip irrigation makes sense to me, at least as a back-up system. It's the sort of thing 19th century and early 20th century winemakers would have appreciated.

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

JOATMON


quality posts: 19 Private Messages JOATMON
SonomaBouliste wrote:Well, not the vines themselves, but....

Random Ridge
Random wines from random vines
Marquis Billy Random, Vinemaster

1994 was a torturous year; the vines suffered even more than usual, but we managed to whip them into shape by the time harvest came around. The grapes for this particular wine were slashed from the vine on a cold, dreary September morning, crammed into a bin, stomped on, and then bounced to the winery in back of a pick-up. After being tumbled mercilessly and pressed until they burst, the grapes were then dumped in the middle of a cold field without a second thought. A different fate altogether awaited the juice. Forced to exist on nothing more than dirt from Wyoming and a little yeast, it was imprisoned all Winter in small barrels in a cold, damp cellar. Its spirit finally broken, the wine was sufficiently submissive to be bottled in July of this year. We think you’ll find this wine to be restrained, with the smell of fear, somewhat lean of body and extremely obedient. It should go quite well with mashed potatoes, whipped cream, and beats.



"Men are like fine wine: They all start out as grapes, and it is your job to stomp on them and keep them in the dark until they mature into something you'd want to have for dinner"

Juvie: 30+24+4; Sellout: 6+7+0
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(as of 2011-03-02)

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
rpm wrote:Ah, yes, indeed. Winemakers like fruit from vines that haven't overproduced (think of the low yields of century old Zinfandel vines, but that's a bit extreme), but if you're growing grapes you want to maximize production, subject to keeping quality high enough to keep your price high enough. The tension between quality and production is always there -- especially in wonderful years where there is an overabundance of wonderful fruit: ultimately great for the wine drinker, but often not so wonderful for the grape grower who doesn't have a contract and sells spot (do people still do that?)

I also agree with your critique of the tendency to follow whatever trend or idea is hot pretty near all the way to reductio ad absurdam. I guess what little I know I learned from the old guys, and the really old guys, for whom balance was key. It's hard to get it right, and Mother Nature can sometimes need a little help. Drip irrigation makes sense to me, at least as a back-up system. It's the sort of thing 19th century and early 20th century winemakers would have appreciated.



It takes decades, and a replanting or two or more, to figure out the best combination of variety, clonal selection, rootstock, spacing and training system for any given site. In the 60's and 70's people were planting Cabernet, Riesling and Pinot Noir next to each other, on the same rootstock, with the same farming methods. We've come a long way in the last 40 years or so, and we learn more each time we replant a given site. The great European vineyards have had centuries to fine tune things, and we still have a ways to go as far as optimizing vineyard potential. As an example, I've used six different rootstocks in the replanting we've done over the last twenty years, including two that existed in the old dry-farmed blocks. My original choices require a lot of irrigation, and therefore energy for pumps - not an ideal situation. I've used more drought tolerant stocks in newer plantings, with the idea that when the vines are fully mature I'll be able to dry-farm some years and use a lot less irrigation water than in the twenty year old blocks. So far, it looks like all the combinations will work very well except one. Syrah clone 174 on 1103 Paulsen rootstock at 7x5 spacing appears to be too vigorous for our site, even in this drought year.

Yes, there is still a spot market. Growers can command higher than average prices when demand is greater than supply, like Chardonnay this year, but often have unsold grapes in times of surplus. I've been bombarded the last few years by growers with grapes for sale, especially Merlot, Cab and Syrah.

canonizer


quality posts: 22 Private Messages canonizer
SonomaBouliste wrote:It takes decades, and a replanting or two or more, to figure out the best combination of variety, clonal selection, rootstock, spacing and training system for any given site. In the 60's and 70's people were planting Cabernet, Riesling and Pinot Noir next to each other, on the same rootstock, with the same farming methods. We've come a long way in the last 40 years or so, and we learn more each time we replant a given site. The great European vineyards have had centuries to fine tune things, and we still have a ways to go as far as optimizing vineyard potential. As an example, I've used six different rootstocks in the replanting we've done over the last twenty years, including two that existed in the old dry-farmed blocks. My original choices require a lot of irrigation, and therefore energy for pumps - not an ideal situation. I've used more drought tolerant stocks in newer plantings, with the idea that when the vines are fully mature I'll be able to dry-farm some years and use a lot less irrigation water than in the twenty year old blocks. So far, it looks like all the combinations will work very well except one. Syrah clone 174 on 1103 Paulsen rootstock at 7x5 spacing appears to be too vigorous for our site, even in this drought year.

Yes, there is still a spot market. Growers can command higher than average prices when demand is greater than supply, like Chardonnay this year, but often have unsold grapes in times of surplus. I've been bombarded the last few years by growers with grapes for sale, especially Merlot, Cab and Syrah.



Do you ever consider off-labeling or one-off wines based on available quantities of grapes from reputable/familiar suppliers?

signed.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
canonizer wrote:Do you ever consider off-labeling or one-off wines based on available quantities of grapes from reputable/familiar suppliers?



We did a bit of that during our early years, but it doesn't mesh too well with the way we work. To over simplify: we strive for long term stability and consistency over short term profits.

rpm


quality posts: 150 Private Messages rpm
SonomaBouliste wrote:It takes decades, and a replanting or two or more, to figure out the best combination of variety, clonal selection, rootstock, spacing and training system for any given site. In the 60's and 70's people were planting Cabernet, Riesling and Pinot Noir next to each other, on the same rootstock, with the same farming methods. We've come a long way in the last 40 years or so, and we learn more each time we replant a given site. The great European vineyards have had centuries to fine tune things, and we still have a ways to go as far as optimizing vineyard potential. As an example, I've used six different rootstocks in the replanting we've done over the last twenty years, including two that existed in the old dry-farmed blocks. My original choices require a lot of irrigation, and therefore energy for pumps - not an ideal situation. I've used more drought tolerant stocks in newer plantings, with the idea that when the vines are fully mature I'll be able to dry-farm some years and use a lot less irrigation water than in the twenty year old blocks. So far, it looks like all the combinations will work very well except one. Syrah clone 174 on 1103 Paulsen rootstock at 7x5 spacing appears to be too vigorous for our site, even in this drought year.
.



Thanks for a thoughtful and interesting reply. You would have enjoyed my great uncle Tony: his heart was in the vineyard - almost every day, literally - and he devoted a substantial amount of time and attention to clonal variants and cross-breeding. (He was driving from one vineyard to another at 94 when his car was hit by a drunk driver and he suffered a fatal embolism)

Wine-tasting in 8 words:
Pull lots of corks!
Remember what you taste!

iByron


quality posts: 40 Private Messages iByron
SonomaBouliste wrote:The only other irrigation method I can think of is Mother Nature (rain or flood). I guess I don't understand your question.



When you answered hardground's question, "I'll bite: why can't you irrigate old vines? At what age can they no longer take water?"(which in turn was prompted by the statement "We can't irrigate the old vines and I am concerned they may run out of gas before the final stage of ripening."), you said:

"You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades."

I'm sure it's a matter of me not understanding some terminology that is well-understood among agriculture growers, but I wasn't able to fine the answer to hardground's question .. at least as I interpreted the question ... out of that bit of information.

Is there something about old vines that requires you to treat them differently (irrigation-wise)? Are they more delicate? Less delicate? Or is it not a function of the vines themselves but where the old vines are? I'm assuming that when you say you "can't irrigate" them (instead of "We don't irrigate" them) in order to get the desired result that you don't have a choice in the matter.

Thanks for the insights!

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aces219


quality posts: 3 Private Messages aces219
SonomaBouliste wrote:We did a bit of that during our early years, but it doesn't mesh too well with the way we work. To over simplify: we strive for long term stability and consistency over short term profits.



SonomaBouliste = Warren Buffett?

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
iByron wrote:When you answered hardground's question, "I'll bite: why can't you irrigate old vines? At what age can they no longer take water?"(which in turn was prompted by the statement "We can't irrigate the old vines and I am concerned they may run out of gas before the final stage of ripening."), you said:

"You can irrigate them if you install an irrigation system (a few people do so). All the vineyards in coastal areas of N. California were dry farmed until the last 40 years or so. Before then only vineyards in desert areas (like California's Central Valley) were irrigated. The Central Valley is very flat for the most part, so flood irrigation is practical (although extremely wasteful). Modern methods, primarily drip irrigation, are used in virtually all coastal vineyards planted in the last four decades."

I'm sure it's a matter of me not understanding some terminology that is well-understood among agriculture growers, but I wasn't able to fine the answer to hardground's question .. at least as I interpreted the question ... out of that bit of information.

Is there something about old vines that requires you to treat them differently (irrigation-wise)? Are they more delicate? Less delicate? Or is it not a function of the vines themselves but where the old vines are? I'm assuming that when you say you "can't irrigate" them (instead of "We don't irrigate" them) in order to get the desired result that you don't have a choice in the matter.

Thanks for the insights!



They were planted without irrigation infrastructure. The growers typically hauled a water tank on a horse-drawn wagon through the vineyard a few times during the first year or two, giving each vine a shot of water. The vines were dry-farmed once they had developed a decent root system. It would cost a couple of thousand dollars an acre to put in irrigation, which would not even be used some years. There are a few old vineyards that have retrofitted, and it's a nice tool to have in dry years. So I suppose the answer is: short term, we can't irrigate, long term, we choose not to make the sizeable expenditure.

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
aces219 wrote:SonomaBouliste = Warren Buffett?



Don't get me (or the ghost of Enrico Gallo) started on American politics and the way businesses are run.

aces219


quality posts: 3 Private Messages aces219
SonomaBouliste wrote:Don't get me (or the ghost of Enrico Gallo) started on American politics and the way businesses are run.



Sounds like a fun rpm tour conversation!

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
SonomaBouliste wrote:Don't get me (or the ghost of Enrico Gallo) started on American politics and the way businesses are run.



Gotta tell a Joe Gallo story - I've got so many. In 1989 we put up a six foot high fence around the vineyard to keep deer out. Shortly after that a Sonoma County Dept. of Public Works employee came by and started giving me grief about how the fence along the road would prevent his people from getting a backhoe in to clean out the six foot diameter culvert that went under the road. Right about then Mr. Gallo arrived home from an errand and, seeing a county truck, had to stop and see what was going on. I had already told the county guy I'd be very happy to open the fence to allow them access because cleaning out the culvert would cut down on flooding in our vineyard, but he was being a prick. Joe picked up on this quickly, and started in on how the culvert had never been cleaned, how the county wasted tax dollars, etc. The guy then went into how the county "gives permits allowing connection of driveways", etc. I could see Joe's temper rising, but the guy was oblivious. Joe started in on "Who gave the settlers permits to come over here in covered wagons?..." The guy still wanted to debate, and finally pushed enough of Joe's buttons that he got in the guy's face with "I pay your salary. You work for me.", while poking the guy in the chest quite hard with his index finger. Joe was well into his 70's at this point, but still had the long, well muscled arms that had made him a Golden Gloves champion back in the 30's. The guy finally realized he was in some peril and made a rapid retreat to his truck. About an hour later Joe came over and apologized, saying he "hoped he hadn't caused any trouble" for me. I thanked him and told him the county guy had forgotten all about harassing me, and that I didn't think he'd be back anytime soon. It's now 19 years later, and I've never heard from DPW again (and they still haven't cleaned out the bleeping culvert).

nyesq54


quality posts: 1 Private Messages nyesq54
SonomaBouliste wrote:Gotta tell a Joe Gallo story - I've got so many. In 1989 we put up a six foot high fence around the vineyard to keep deer out. Shortly after that a Sonoma County Dept. of Public Works employee came by and started giving me grief about how the fence along the road would prevent his people from getting a backhoe in to clean out the six foot diameter culvert that went under the road. Right about then Mr. Gallo arrived home from an errand and, seeing a county truck, had to stop and see what was going on. I had already told the county guy I'd be very happy to open the fence to allow them access because cleaning out the culvert would cut down on flooding in our vineyard, but he was being a prick. Joe picked up on this quickly, and started in on how the culvert had never been cleaned, how the county wasted tax dollars, etc. The guy then went into how the county "gives permits allowing connection of driveways", etc. I could see Joe's temper rising, but the guy was oblivious. Joe started in on "Who gave the settlers permits to come over here in covered wagons?..." The guy still wanted to debate, and finally pushed enough of Joe's buttons that he got in the guy's face with "I pay your salary. You work for me.", while poking the guy in the chest quite hard with his index finger. Joe was well into his 70's at this point, but still had the long, well muscled arms that had made him a Golden Gloves champion back in the 30's. The guy finally realized he was in some peril and made a rapid retreat to his truck. About an hour later Joe came over and apologized, saying he "hoped he hadn't caused any trouble" for me. I thanked him and told him the county guy had forgotten all about harassing me, and that I didn't think he'd be back anytime soon. It's now 19 years later, and I've never heard from DPW again (and they still haven't cleaned out the bleeping culvert).



Priceless. Thanks for your stories and hard work. I will be staying at Nick's Cove in October and plan on stopping by.

nematic


quality posts: 6 Private Messages nematic
SonomaBouliste wrote:(and they still haven't cleaned out the bleeping culvert).



will clean culverts for wine?

SonomaBouliste


quality posts: 214 Private Messages SonomaBouliste
nematic wrote:will clean culverts for wine?



Sounds great to me, but you better take a look at the culvert before we make a deal

bhodilee


quality posts: 30 Private Messages bhodilee
SonomaBouliste wrote:Sounds great to me, but you better take a look at the culvert before we make a deal



I've got a backhoe, but I think the cost of getting it from my place to your place would be rather steep.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."

– George Bernard Shaw, author (1856-1950)

polarbear22


quality posts: 23 Private Messages polarbear22
bhodilee wrote:I've got a backhoe, but I think the cost of getting it from my place to your place would be rather steep.


OK, have to ask. Why? If the GIS doesn't match, you go move things?

Polar bears are meant to be clever, very clever. They are the Einsteins of the bear community. - Anonymous
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