Ethan Wines Edna Valley Grenache
$65.99 + $5 shipping
CONDITION: Red
PRODUCT: 4 2008 Ethan Wines Edna Valley Grenache
CT link above

Had a bottle of Ethan's Grenache Blanc and thoroughly enjoyed it. Probably had this in their tasting room but don't remember much.

Did the 3-day heat spike have the same effect on this as it did on many of the Syrah bottlings?

You lost me at biodynamic.

trifecta wrote:You lost me at biodynamic.

QFT. I only believe in real magic.

I've had a bottle from Ethan before and it was quality juice. In for 1.

trifecta wrote:You lost me at biodynamic.

Agreed. $64.99 for Biodynamic. I would estimate $49.99 for non-biodynamic, which is a price I would try this at.

trifecta wrote:You lost me at biodynamic.

Why? You prefer heavy pesticides in your grapes when possible?
I don't prejudge a wine based on whether its bio/natural, but generally speaking it seems like that level of care in the vineyard translates into a real labor of love in the bottle. You also often end up with something "fresh" and alive tasting, and are less likely to see nonsense manipulation like oak balls and the like.
All that said, I will need to know a bit more about this wine I've never heard of before coughing up $70.

I just wanted to add a quick question. I have seen the negative biodynamic reaction in this forum on previous offerings and again here. I know that biodynamics in "regular" farming means using special 'treatments' (fertilizers) on a certain schedule as well as using special cover crops to produce what essentially amounts to an organic+ crop (I understand this is a grossly oversimplified explanation...) How does this process translate to vinyard management? Also, do biodynamic wines tend to garner this reaction because the process results in a lower quality fruit or because the grower is more concerned with biodynamics than with the end product?

Signed,
biodynamically challenged

mbmiche wrote:I just wanted to add a quick question. I have seen the negative biodynamic reaction in this forum on previous offerings and again here. I know that biodynamics in "regular" farming means using special 'treatments' (fertilizers) on a certain schedule as well as using special cover crops to produce what essentially amounts to an organic+ crop (I understand this is a grossly oversimplified explanation...) How does this process translate to vinyard management? Also, do biodynamic wines tend to garner this reaction because the process results in a lower quality fruit or because the grower is more concerned with biodynamics than with the end product?

Signed,
biodynamically challenged

The general disdain for biodynamics is because of the cost/benefit analysis of doing such. It can be a very expensive task to produce a biodynamic wine and many, including myself, don't really see the benefit of doing so other than being able to say "hey, I'm cool and my wine is biodynamic". There are tons of producers out there who are producing just as pure and "organic" products without the fancy titles and cost involved with them. That's just my take on it.

Edit: Additional info from Wiki

Biodynamic Preparations:

For a vineyard to be considered biodynamic the wine-grower must use the nine biodynamic preparations, as described in 1924 by Rudolf Steiner. These are made from cow manure, quartz (silica) and seven medicinal plants. Some of these materials are first transformed using animal organs as sheaths (NB: the animal organs are not used on the vineyards). Of the nine biodynamic preparations three are used as sprays (horn manure, horn silica and common horsetail) and the other six are applied to the vineyard via solid compost:[14]

Preparation 500 - Cow manure is buried in cow horns in the soil over winter. The horn is then dug up, its contents (called horn manure or '500') are then stirred in water and sprayed on the soil in the afternoon. The horn may be re-used as a sheath.

Preparation 501 - Ground quartz is buried in cow horns in the soil over summer. The horn is then dug up, its contents (called horn silica or '501') are then stirred in water and sprayed over the vines at daybreak. The horn may be re-used as a sheath.

Preparation 502 - Yarrow flowers are buried sheathed in a stag's bladder. This is hung in the summer sun, buried over winter, then dug up the following spring. The bladder's contents are removed and inserted in the compost (the used bladder is discarded).

Preparation 503 - Chamomille, the German chamomile (Matricaria chamomila) flowers are sheathed in a cow intestine. This is hung in the summer sun, buried over winter, then dug up the following spring. The intestine's contents are removed and inserted in the compost (the used intestine is discarded).

Preparation 504 - Stinging nettles are buried in the soil (with no animal sheath) in summer, are dug up the following autumn and are inserted in the compost.

Preparation 505 - Oak bark is buried sheathed in the skull of a farm animal, the skull is buried in a watery environment over winter, then dug up. The skull's contents are removed and inserted in the compost (the used skull is discarded).

Preparation 506 - Dandelion flowers are buried sheathed in a cow mesentery (peritoneum). This is hung in the summer sun, buried over winter, then dug up the following spring. The mesentery's contents are removed and inserted in the compost (the used mesentery is discarded).

Preparation 507 - Valerian flower juice is sprayed over and/or inserted into the compost.

Preparation 508 - Common Horsetail (Equisetum arvense) made either as a fresh tea or as a fermented liquid manure is applied either to the vines (in this case usually as a tea) or to the soil (in this case usually as a liquid manure).

ewww.... or is that ewe(skull)...--preparation 505

dah7m wrote:Why? You prefer heavy pesticides in your grapes when possible?
I don't prejudge a wine based on whether its bio/natural, but generally speaking it seems like that level of care in the vineyard translates into a real labor of love in the bottle. You also often end up with something "fresh" and alive tasting, and are less likely to see nonsense manipulation like oak balls and the like.
All that said, I will need to know a bit more about this wine I've never heard of before coughing up $70.

if it wine is not biodynamic it doesn't mean it has pesticides. Far from it. Organic farming guarantees that. And organic OR biodynamic farming practices and certification are completely separate (and less meaningful) from certification of either for finished wine.

North316 wrote:Agreed. $64.99 for Biodynamic. I would estimate $49.99 for non-biodynamic, which is a price I would try this at.

thats pretty funny. It costs MORE to farm biodynamically. So why in your opinion should it be price less?

North316 wrote:Agreed. $64.99 for Biodynamic. I would estimate $49.99 for non-biodynamic, which is a price I would try this at.

That's a silly statement. Yes, if they didn't farm biodynamic, the wine might cost $49.99, but it would be a different wine. That's like saying "if Mercedes didn't assemble all their engines by hand, it would cost as much as a Chrysler, and I'd buy it for that price".

If the wine is good for $16.25 a bottle, who cares what the farming methods were?

These guys don't have a long track record, but the scores they have on CT look pretty good. For this price, I'm in for 2.

Cesare wrote:Ethan Wines Edna Valley Grenache
$65.99 + $5 shipping
CONDITION: Red
PRODUCT: 4 2008 Ethan Wines Edna Valley Grenache
CT link above

Website seems to expired?


Sounds like an awesome cooler climate, Grenache, light and bright. Bravo for all neutral oak.

uhoerhold wrote:That's a silly statement. Yes, if they didn't farm biodynamic, the wine might cost $49.99, but it would be a different wine. That's like saying "if Mercedes didn't assemble all their engines by hand, it would cost as much as a Chrysler, and I'd buy it for that price".

If the wine is good for $16.25 a bottle, who cares what the farming methods were?

You can pay more for your VooDoo wine all you want. I will continue to pay less my for my VooDoo free wine.

sonomawilliam wrote:thats pretty funny. It costs MORE to farm biodynamically.

That is exactly the point I was making. Thanks for concurring.

North316 wrote:You can pay more for your VooDoo wine all you want. I will continue to pay less my for my VooDoo free wine.

Then why are you even bothering to look here? Why don't you just stick to Yellow Tail and Sutter Home? They use the cheapest methods available.

dah7m wrote:Why? You prefer heavy pesticides in your grapes when possible?
I don't prejudge a wine based on whether its bio/natural, but generally speaking it seems like that level of care in the vineyard translates into a real labor of love in the bottle. You also often end up with something "fresh" and alive tasting, and are less likely to see nonsense manipulation like oak balls and the like.
All that said, I will need to know a bit more about this wine I've never heard of before coughing up $70.

Agreed, good wine starts with responsible farming. We tasted many Ethan and Qupe wines at their shared tasting room, and while we have no formal notes, most were of good to excellent quality. This is also where we learned about Purisima Mountain vineyard, and the jaw-dropping Syrahs that come from it.

biodynamic is a marketing gimmick...it's the new organic

Where I live organic farmers are the farmers who spray their chemicals at night when no one can see them doing it. :-)

uhoerhold wrote:Then why are you even bothering to look here? Why don't you just stick to Yellow Tail and Sutter Home? They use the cheapest methods available.

I am here for the same reason you are, to buy, discuss and share my opinions on the daily selections. I am simply sharing some facts on biodynamics and my opinion as to why I generally don't purchase them.

North316 wrote:I am here for the same reason you are, to buy, discuss and share my opinions on the daily selections. I am simply sharing some facts on biodynamics and my opinion as to why I generally don't purchase them.

I guess for me, the bottom line is the wine and the price. Oak chips, micro-ox, biodynamic? I don't really care. If the wine is good and the price is right, I'll buy it.

sonomawilliam wrote:if it wine is not biodynamic it doesn't mean it has pesticides. Far from it. Organic farming guarantees that. And organic OR biodynamic farming practices and certification are completely separate (and less meaningful) from certification of either for finished wine.

No disagreement here! Apologies if I implied that.

uhoerhold wrote:These guys don't have a long track record, but the scores they have on CT look pretty good. For this price, I'm in for 2.

not that I give CT scores weight, but I don't see any tasting notes or scores.

Release the Kracken

sonomawilliam wrote:not that I give CT scores weight, but I don't see any tasting notes or scores.

Not for this particular wine, but there are some scores and notes for their other wines. Again, not a long track record, but it looks like they make some good stuff.

Interesting comments all around here, especially those related to biodynamics . . .

Ethan Lindquist makes some quality juice - period. He has been trained well - his dad Bob started and owns Qupe. My guess is that the vineyard this grenache comes from is the Sawyer Lindquist Vineyard, planted across the street in Edna Valley from John Alban's vineyard. The fact that it is biodynamic should not be a negative - and as far as I can tell, they do not tout the fact for marketing purposes - they simply state what they are doing. Bottom line - it's what inside the bottle that counts, and my guess is you'll like what you try.

Ethan takes an 'old world' view on making wine, using older oak instead of newer to allow the fruit to shine.

For the price, this truly seems like a no brainer . . .

neilfindswine wrote:...jumping into the fray here at the risk of being thrown to the wolves (not the ones I was Raised By, nor the ones I've danced with)...

I personally don't look for the word Biodynamic on my wines... but I'm not repelled by it either.

Is it one of the hip marketing terms in 2012? Sure... But not everyone is using it to be hip or relevant, some are doing it because they think the grapes are better and make better wine...

This wine is $25 SRP; and frankly, many quality Central Coast rhone wines that I like are in the same or higher price range.

As mentioned earlier, take a trip to the Qupe/Ethan/Verdad tasting room and you realize you're in good hands. I daresay all of the wines are pretty stellar, and it's obvious that everyone there is serious about making tasty wine, whether it be with grapes, biodynamic grapes or Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious (sp?) grapes; they're just looking for quality grapes and making quality wines. Are they worth the price? I think so. Could you find the same wine for less without the 'biod' title on the label? I don't know... how a grape is farmed affects how it tastes, so....

At the end of the day, we all come across new wines in our wine journey, and purchase decisions are based on price, region, varietal, producer reputation, cellar tracker, lab rats (sniff), dare I say scores?, label design and a lot of other factors... everyone has their criteria. I'm suggesting that the word biodynamic on the label shouldn't make the wine an auto-buy nor an auto-not-buy. Just my two cents...

Now, release the wolves...

How DARE you intervene in a developing hissy fit with this reasonable, constructive, well-written, informed and yet open-minded post???

uhoerhold wrote:Then why are you even bothering to look here? Why don't you just stick to Yellow Tail and Sutter Home? They use the cheapest methods available.

Excellent argument! And I think that was exactly what North was saying. I should avoid Barnes and Noble because they sell Jenny Macarthy's book about vaccinations causing autism.

I don't buy biodynamic for the same reason I won't buy the aforementioned book: I don't support BULL@$#%.

Let's be clear people -- they bury crystals in the ground and pick when the moon is full and spray the vines with burnt nettles to attract iron because they think that magic is real and that crystals have energy and science is the devil's invention.

kylemittskus wrote:Excellent argument! And I think that was exactly what North was saying. I should avoid Barnes and Noble because they sell Jenny Macarthy's book about vaccinations causing autism.

I don't buy biodynamic for the same reason I won't buy the aforementioned book: I don't support BULL@$#%.

Kyle,

Greetings! I understand the 'negativity' towards biodynamics due to the marketing schtick that many wineries use it for.

My feeling? If you are spending more time in the vineyard tending to the vines, regardless of the 'practices', that's usually a good thing for the grapes that come out of there. When you simply use the techniques for marketing purposes and to say "I'm biodynamic so I'm cool and my wines are cooler than others and therefore if you don't buy my wines, you are NOT cool" THEN I have a problem . . .

In this case, Ethan is not using this to say the wine is better or more natural or anything else - just stating what they're doing in the vineyard.

Again, no horse in this race, and I too am always looking for my BS meter to go off, but in this case, I don't think it is . . .

Just another opinion - and again, no horse in this match - I just know Ethan and know the quality of his wines and feel that these deserve a good look - that's it.

Cheers!

kylemittskus wrote:QFT. I only believe in real magic.

Well there is always skeptics with biodynamic farming. Fact of the matter is that i was skeptical as well, my whole family was. Dominique Lafon convinced my dad to plant and go biodynamic from day 1. We had already been working with fruit from the Purisima Mountain Vineyard farmed this way and noticed a huge difference in the overall health of the vineyard. Basically all i can tell you is go look at our vineyard during full growth and walk around and observe it, then go down the street to a conventionally farmed vineyard and look at it and you tell me if you notice a difference. Until you have farmed all ways like we have you dont know the difference. We are now convinced it is a superior way to farm for overall health of not only our vines but the land in general. This translates into the quality of the fruit as well.

ethanlindquist wrote:Well there is always skeptics with biodynamic farming. Fact of the matter is that i was skeptical as well, my whole family was. Dominique Lafon convinced my dad to plant and go biodynamic from day 1. We had already been working with fruit from the Purisima Mountain Vineyard farmed this way and noticed a huge difference in the overall health of the vineyard. Basically all i can tell you is go look at our vineyard during full growth and walk around and observe it, then go down the street to a conventionally farmed vineyard and look at it and you tell me if you notice a difference. Until you have farmed all ways like we have you dont know the difference. We are now convinced it is a superior way to farm for overall health of not only our vines but the land in general. This translates into the quality of the fruit as well.

The cost isnt a dramatic price difference actually. Its basically more of a commitment in the vineyard. We are committed to producing the best possible fruit we can out of our vineyard. The result from this quality fruit is quality product in bottle. Sure some of you can find your 49.99 4 pack. But what is the product you are getting. Ive seen first hand in the farming and can tell you there is a difference. There is no voodoo. Most of what biodynamics is about has to do with farming based on the moon. If the moon can affect the tides, whats to say it wont affect your fruit and plants which are made up of mostly water. If you prefer wines with chemicals and pesticides used in farming than have at it. My family prefers to farm this way and with all fruit we source we choose to buy organic, sustainable or biodynamic fruit. Im not here to convince you otherwise. I ask you to just take a look at our vineyard while fruit set is happening and then go down the street and look at a conventionally farmed vineyard. The difference is noticable. What i notice is our shoots will all be pointing very upward and very happy with a intense glowing green color. Conventionally farmed vines are droopy, uneven in canopy and the color is a dull green with yellowing. The soil is dead in a conventionally farmed vineyard where if you take a scoop of our soil its alive. There is a noticable difference. When vines are happy they set happy fruit, quality. You cannot make a good wine from mediocre fruit, its just not possible. Plus with mediocre fruit you will have to manipulate the wine. My belief is the less manipulation you have to do in the winery the better the wine turns out. Our fruit comes in so perfectly, numbers and health. I dont ever have to do anything to it. No adds, no manipulations...nothing. Just let it go naturally and do its thing. We have been making some stellar wines from this vineyard and the proof is in the bottle. So if you dont believe and think its a scam, then dont buy it. For those who do buy it, you will be rewarded with some good wine at a good price. This is not expensive for what you are getting. I should be charging twice what i am for this wine. I just want the wine to be able to reach more people by coming in at a fair price. I do have more expensive wines too. This is entry level pricing. Im hoping that by turning people onto my wines at a fair price they will follow my wines in the future, visit our tasting room, and join our wine club. Then try some of our other wines. Does anyone have any specific questions?

I'm a sucker for biodynamic and organic offerings, but I've been buying too much wine lately.

I have a lot of respect for wineries that care about the health of the land. Such commitment is one of the most important factors behind my purchases. I think it's important for people to have a connection with their food and know where it came from and how it was grown or raised. There are many companies out there using unsustainable farming techniques. By definition, this means one day we will not be able to farm anymore using such methods.