Wine.Woot : One Week, One Wine (SM)

Thanks Scott, great information.
When I visted the Finger Lakes in April the better wineries had tasting sheets with a column for %rs. For all the wines, not just the Rieslings or whites but the reds as well. The first thing they would ask is if you liked dryer or sweeter wines and plan your tasting based on that. Of course the wineries that had mostly sweet stuff or hybrids didn't bother with any of that. In general the area has come a long way over the years.
Where do you get your grapes from for your New York Riesling?

Thanks a lot Scott. I have zero experience with Riesling, but I want to learn.

What do you think about aging and aged Riesling? Some around here have suggested that aged Riesling is really where it's at.

Very interesting! I went over to the IRF's website, and you explained it a whole lot better than they did!

Do you personally think there is a direct correlation (or USE a direct correlation) between the IRF's 4 grades and the traditional German descriptors: Kabinett, Spatlese, Auslese, Beerenauslese (BA), and Trockenbeerenauslese (TBA)? (Although I am aware that TBA is a reference to the process more than to a sweetness level.)

Scott, I'm assuming you'll be reading this more than the old Noceto thread where someone posted a reassuring note for you, so in case you haven't noticed, the McRostie's back.

Cesare wrote:Thanks Scott, great information.
Where do you get your grapes from for your New York Riesling?

We produced a New York Riesling in 2005 from Seneca lake. The grapes came from Anthony Road Winery. They also make wondeful wines. The grapes where packed and sealed into 1 ton bins and shipped at 35 degrees to Napa in about three days. We made the first New York Riesling in Napa Valley.

kylemittskus wrote:Thanks a lot Scott. I have zero experience with Riesling, but I want to learn.

What do you think about aging and aged Riesling? Some around here have suggested that aged Riesling is really where it's at.

I love aged Riesling, but I'm kind of a fanatic. Aged Riesling for most people is an acquired taste. One year into the bottle the wine starts developing turpines. Turpines is a positive way to say petroleum favor. I've had dry Rieslings from the 20's and 30's that were wonderful and not at all oxidized. They usually are wines produced in the low 2.8 to 3.2 pH range.

cjsiege wrote:Very interesting! I went over to the IRF's website, and you explained it a whole lot better than they did!

Do you personally think there is a direct correlation (or USE a direct correlation) between the IRF's 4 grades and the traditional German descriptors: Kabinett, Spatlese, Auslese, Beerenauslese (BA), and Trockenbeerenauslese (TBA)? (Although I am aware that TBA is a reference to the process more than to a sweetness level.)

Kabinett, Spatlese, Auslese, Beerenauslese and Trokenbeernauslese are categories for wines picked at different times in harvest and at increasing sugar levels. Once picked the wines can be produced at different finishing sweetness. Especially for QBA, Kabinett, Spatlese and Auslese. Once past Auslese the wine usually can not be finished off as a dry wine.
In Germany you can find dry (troken), medium dry (halbtroken), or medium sweet or sweet wines all produced in the QBA, Kabinett, Spatlese or Auslese categories. Now with the IRF Taste Profile Scale you can better determine the wines perceived sweetness.

ddeuddeg wrote:Scott, I'm assuming you'll be reading this more than the old Noceto thread where someone posted a reassuring note for you, so in case you haven't noticed, the McRostie's back.

Thanks, I got in on it.

ScottHarveyWines wrote:I love aged Riesling, but I'm kind of a fanatic. Aged Riesling for most people is an acquired taste. One year into the bottle the wine starts developing turpines. Turpines is a positive way to say petroleum favor. I've had dry Rieslings from the 20's and 30's that were wonderful and not at all oxidized. They usually are wines produced in the low 2.8 to 3.2 pH range.

You already answered the question I was about to ask. I was curious about what caused the petrol smell. Since you say it only takes about a year for turpines to develop, I suppose that explains why I found an off-dry Riesling from 2007 that was already heavy on the kerosene. (It definitely was not the sulfur-based aromas I associate with wine in a reductive state.)

Is it common for turpines to develop at such a young age? I was surprised because I'd read it often takes years for a Riesling to develop petrol aromas.

ScottHarveyWines wrote:We produced a New York Riesling in 2005 from Seneca lake. The grapes came from Anthony Road Winery. They also make wondeful wines. The grapes where packed and sealed into 1 ton bins and shipped at 35 degrees to Napa in about three days. We made the first New York Riesling in Napa Valley.

Excellent! I know Anthony Road. We stopped there in April and they also go to the Union Square Greenmarket on Saturdays. They do make nice wines, we took home some Riesling and some Vignoles which is a very interesting hybrid. Similar to Vidal Blanc if I had to compare, maybe more floral but both have good acidity and nice pineapple and peach notes.
That is very cool how you were able to get grapes transported that way instead of just the juice which I assume would be easier. Must not have been cheap.
Keep up the good work. You are a very progressive winemaker but also stay true to your roots. Well balanced, like a good wine.

So I'll put the question out there...

Any chance we'll see a SH or Jana Riesling offer soon?

Cesare wrote:Excellent! I know Anthony Road. We stopped there in April and they also go to the Union Square Greenmarket on Saturdays. They do make nice wines, we took home some Riesling and some Vignoles which is a very interesting hybrid. Similar to Vidal Blanc if I had to compare, maybe more floral but both have good acidity and nice pineapple and peach notes.
That is very cool how you were able to get grapes transported that way instead of just the juice which I assume would be easier. Must not have been cheap.
Keep up the good work. You are a very progressive winemaker but also stay true to your roots. Well balanced, like a good wine.

I went to school in the Finger Lakes area and spent quite some time drinking my way around the lakes. If you enjoy Riesling, you owe it to yourself to find and enjoy a bottle of Dry Riesling from Dr. Frank's Vinifera. If you enjoy white wine in general, you owe it to yourself to try his Rkatsitelli, if you can find it. The Vignoles you can readily get at Hunt Country is also one of the best I have ever tasted from the area.

Oh, THIS was interesting! I love Riesling and prefer it over other wines. I don't have much knowledge of wines but would love to find a Michigan Rielsing since I live in the western Michigan area. I'm wondering I can find local wineries that create Riesling? I'm willing to drive a ways--it's always an opportunity to see/find something new. Just tell me where, please.

ferrelli wrote:Oh, THIS was interesting! I love Riesling and prefer it over other wines. I don't have much knowledge of wines but would love to find a Michigan Rielsing since I live in the western Michigan area. I'm wondering I can find local wineries that create Riesling? I'm willing to drive a ways--it's always an opportunity to see/find something new. Just tell me where, please.

Michigan is actually really fantastic at Rieslings - probably the best wine we put out. Scott actually sourced a Riesling out of 45 North. I would heartily recommend any of them out of the Old Mission Peninsula and Leelanau Peninsula areas. Chateau Grand Traverse, Chateau Chantal, Black Star Farms (Arcturos label), and of course, 45 North, all good options for good MI Riesling, and Chantal and Black Star are generally very readily available. Head to your local Meijer and go to the Michigan wine section. Can't go wrong when it's a Riesling from NW Michigan

St Julian and Tabor Hill in the Lake Shore region are OK for Ries, but not as good as up north. And if you want to go visit a winery, I hear Chateau Chantal is just gorgeous.

Enjoyed the article very much. Riesling has always been my favorite white wine. Before I got into reds, Chardonnay was my take to parties wine, but Riesling is what I drank at home. Upon self-reflection, its probably because of the touch of sweetness most of them have. My personal favorite was "Johannesburg" Riesling (pretty sure I mucked up the spelling there), but I can't seem to find it anymore. Was that a different varietal or appellation or just a trade name or ?

merryberry wrote:Enjoyed the article very much. Riesling has always been my favorite white wine. Before I got into reds, Chardonnay was my take to parties wine, but Riesling is what I drank at home. Upon self-reflection, its probably because of the touch of sweetness most of them have. My personal favorite was "Johannesburg" Riesling (pretty sure I mucked up the spelling there), but I can't seem to find it anymore. Was that a different varietal or appellation or just a trade name or ?

Woot sold one from V. Sattui last August.

gcdyersb wrote:Is it common for turpines to develop at such a young age? I was surprised because I'd read it often takes years for a Riesling to develop petrol aromas.

It depends on the wine. Wines from colder climates that are produced at lower pH levels tend to develop it more. Also, if the wine has a high free SO2 at bottling it will develop more slowly.

spdrcr05 wrote:So I'll put the question out there...

Any chance we'll see a SH or Jana Riesling offer soon?

I'm sure, but it's up to wineDavid and how good of a deal Jana wants to make on the wines. It would be great to introduce more people to Riesling.

Gatzby wrote:I really can't stand sweet alcohol -- it makes me feel pretty ill, pretty quickly. As a result, Rieslings are always a gamble, or at least those without the scale, but a good dry one is worth the risk. With that in mind, is there a good way to at least guess what the sugar level might be on a bottle without the scale?

Not until you open it up and try it. You can ask people who are familiar with the producer and check out their web site. Hopefully, the Taste Profile Scale will catch on. Often I've ordered a bottle of Riesling in a restaurant where the wait staff said it was dry and it wasn't.

merryberry wrote: My personal favorite was "Johannesburg" Riesling (pretty sure I mucked up the spelling there), but I can't seem to find it anymore. Was that a different varietal or appellation or just a trade name or ?

Johannisberg is an Estate Riesling producer from the Rheingau of Germany. Over the years many Riesling producers have called their Riesling wine "Johannisberg Riesling" when in fact it is just Riesling. Today the term is no longer allowed unless the wine comes from Schloss Johannisberg.

ScottHarveyWines wrote:
Johannisberg is an Estate Riesling producer from the Rheingau of Germany. Over the years many Riesling producers have called their Riesling wine "Johannisberg Riesling" when in fact it is just Riesling. Today the term is no longer allowed unless the wine comes from Schloss Johannisberg.

A very timely blog, since I just picked up a wooden collectors box set from the first winery in Spokane (now defunct) which includes a 1987 'Johannisberg Riesling'. I suspect the wine was not stored properly during the past couple of decades, since the 'blush' bottle has leaked a little. In any case, I like being able to say I have a 20+ bottle of wine in my cellar so I have no intention of opening it. It would probably be much too sweet for our tastes anyway.

yumitori wrote:A very timely blog, since I just picked up a wooden collectors box set from the first winery in Spokane (now defunct) which includes a 1987 'Johannisberg Riesling'. I suspect the wine was not stored properly during the past couple of decades, since the 'blush' bottle has leaked a little. In any case, I like being able to say I have a 20+ bottle of wine in my cellar so I have no intention of opening it. It would probably be much too sweet for our tastes anyway.

I had a 1949 German Riesling at a tasting. It was a little oxidized but it was still insane. Petrol, sulfur, fireworks, dark color, not too sweet. It was almost undrinkable but still interesting.

Cesare wrote:I had a 1949 German Riesling at a tasting. It was a little oxidized but it was still insane. Petrol, sulfur, fireworks, dark color, not too sweet. It was almost undrinkable but still interesting.

Sixty years is a bit much unless it was a BA or TBA. My personal experience has been that the non-dessert Rieslings peak at ~15 and are more or less done after 20: 25 for the really good ones. Beyond that they should be used for fuel.

Still does sound like an interesting drink. Do you remember what it was? Region? Vineyard, perhaps?

iByron

As beverage chair, I was recently tasked with the challenge of finding 15 cases of Napa Valley Riesling from mixed producers to pair with the first course at the Auction Napa Valley dinner on June 7th. I looked far and wide, and was only able to find 8 or 9 cases. I could only choose from Napa Valley Vintner members, so never came across Jana. Something to try!
I've only just begun to enjoy the off-dry Rieslings. What a great drink on a summer day! Before I was a strictly dry, slately, the-more-petrol-and-diesel-notes-the-better, type of girl.
Oh, and with the Auction dinner, they let me cheat and we added Sauvignon Blanc as a pairing wine too. Not sure it went nearly as well with the Ahi tuna!

ScottHarveyWines wrote:

In Germany you can find dry (troken), medium dry (halbtroken), or medium sweet or sweet wines all produced in the QBA, Kabinett, Spatlese or Auslese categories.

Ah...you bring back 1970 memories of visiting a local house near Hessental/Schwaebisch Hall to buy wine that we would fill our bota bags. The person stored his wine under straw. We'd spend the day walking the slopes of the Einchorn watching the wildlife, people flying glider planes (manned and model), and of course, drinking wine. Botas were fun, but in the beginning, we wore half the wine! And I could never forget Herr Burger's Gasthaus. He treated us like king's, with great food and spirits.

Scott...what varietal(s) is May Wine made from? I remember it having a woodhue taste.

ltraffis wrote:
Scott...what varietal(s) is May Wine made from? I remember it having a woodhue taste.

May wine is usually a sweet white wine that has had the spice woodruff (Waldmeister) added to it. It is traditionally served on May day which is labor day (Tag der Arbeit) in Germany. Be careful, to much woodruff can be poisonious. The white wine used is usually the less expensive wines that can be made from anything from Muller Thurgau to Riesling.

merryberry wrote:My personal favorite was "Johannesburg" Riesling (pretty sure I mucked up the spelling there), but I can't seem to find it anymore. Was that a different varietal or appellation or just a trade name or ?

Wines that were previously labeled "Johannisberg Riesling" are now labeled "White Riesling".

Hi Scott -

Thanks for the article. I, too, got my first interest in wines while studying German outside of Freiburg in the late 70s. I came to appreciate specifics of the German labeling system, and fell in love with the bouquet of the Rieslings from the Rheingau region (vs Mosel or even Rheinhessen). Of course you used to be able to get a good Riesling for $5.00 a bottle (it was cheaper than bottled water at the time in Germany). I find that there are a lot of simple, low-quality Rieslings out there, which are in abundant supply in the wine aisles in grocery stores. I have not had yours (yet) but the Satui dry Riesling was very tasty. Hope to see you here in Michigan in August!

Just noticed this thread. First accept my apologies for being a bit off topic--I have a special fondness for rieslings but my real question concerns Michigan wines in the Traverse City area in general. We are going to be in the Traverse City area in a couple of weeks and I wondered if there are special recommendations for wineries to visit beyond those recommended on the basis of their rieslings? We are staying at Black Star Farms but from the commentary and descriptions on the various winery web sites (other than 45 North and Black Star mentioned above) it sounds like the Old Mission Peninsula might hold more interest for me. Thanks in advance for any advice you might have (dining suggestions are also welcome).

perryscottt wrote:Just noticed this thread. First accept my apologies for being a bit off topic--I have a special fondness for rieslings but my real question concerns Michigan wines in the Traverse City area in general. We are going to be in the Traverse City area in a couple of weeks and I wondered if there are special recommendations for wineries to visit beyond those recommended on the basis of their rieslings? We are staying at Black Star Farms but from the commentary and descriptions on the various winery web sites (other than 45 North and Black Star mentioned above) it sounds like the Old Mission Peninsula might hold more interest for me. Thanks in advance for any advice you might have (dining suggestions are also welcome).

My favorite on Old Mission Peninsula is Chateaux Grand Traverse, mainly because Ed O'Keif is an old friend of mine. Been really impressed with his son, Shawn's wine making.

Not knowing a lot about Rieslings, I found this blog to be very informative when it first came out. Thanks Scott!

While I was poking around today, I came across two links that I found interesting and wanted to pass them along. The first article was on Snooth yesterday about Learning about German Wine which adds to Scott's description and describes how to read a label.

The second item was a link to a blog by a German Living in America. The lastest posting was about the Best of Riesling competition. Based on his other postings he must live in the DC area, and he talks about upcoming events and tastings that might be of interest to you DC wooters. I wish I was more into wine when I lived in DC because the wine selection there is much better than what we have here in the DFW metroplex.

Z

I'm on the verge of picking up a sparkling riesling. I like the dry riesling that Pacific Rim makes, so this is exciting!

Does anyone make an auslese? I really like them. I picked up three or four bottles of a nice auslese from Grgich Hills in the mid-80s and brought back a half case from the Pearl River Valley, South Africa, in '89, but those were accidental finds. Otherwise I've only found a bottle here and there.

desertbaker wrote:Does anyone make an auslese? I really like them. I picked up three or four bottles of a nice auslese from Grgich Hills in the mid-80s and brought back a half case from the Pearl River Valley, South Africa, in '89, but those were accidental finds. Otherwise I've only found a bottle here and there.

I found these three from winelibrary.com. Free shipping with code "searcher."

Crazy cheap and probably not very good.

94 pts from Wine Journal but a bit pricey.

And 94 pts from WA, but also a bit pricey.

Thank you for these. I'd kind of given up looking on the Web, to be honest, after not finding anything so often.

Expensive is kind of a given for a good auslese, I think. I don't remember what I paid for those memorable ones, but I know they were expensive. Definitely a special treat (along with something special to eat with them), but well worth it.

desertbaker wrote:Thank you for these. I'd kind of given up looking on the Web, to be honest, after not finding anything so often.

Expensive is kind of a given for a good auslese, I think. I don't remember what I paid for those memorable ones, but I know they were expensive. Definitely a special treat (along with something special to eat with them), but well worth it.

I also found these that you can search through. Get buying!