The glorious #8 just finished last night, so it's time to put up #10 so that we have two out there.
Since #9 is going to be rather small, and way out in the Catskills, this one doesn't need to be at the end of March (as most of our tastings lately tend to have been).
The host just should be anyone other than Krugsters both to give them a break and cuz they'll have their hands full.

THEME: Southern Rhone

DATE: Friday, 3/20/2008
HOSTS: Everyone
LOCATION: A Cafe-973 COLUMBUS AVENUE, NEW YORK, NY 10025, between 107th and 108th Streets, on the Upper West Side of Manhattan
TIME: 6:00 PM

ATTENDEES LIST (so far):

1. HitAnyKey - 2006 Saint-Cosme Côtes du Rhône Blanc
   
2. thatgirl - 2006 Domaine de Piaugier Côtes du Rhône Villages Sablet Blanc
   
3. speedoo - 2004 Prieure de Montezargues Tavel Rosé
4. Shamer - 1998 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Côtes du Rhône Mon Coeur
   
5. afranke - 2006 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Côtes du Rhône Mon Coeur
   
6. gijose - 2007 Domaine de Cabasse Côtes du Rhône Villages Sablet Les Deux Anges
   
7. marekny7 - 2006 Domaine Lafond Lirac Roc-Epine
   
8. Cesare - 2004 Saint Jean du Barroux Côtes du Ventoux L'Oligocène
   
9. kttest - 2005 Château Pesquié Côtes du Ventoux Quintessence
   
10. thatguy - 2006 Domaine La Garrigue Vacqueyras
    
11. fdiaz - 2005 Domaine du Cayron Gigondas
    
12. Krugsters - 2003 E. Guigal Châteauneuf-du-Pape
    
13. gijose's +1 - 2005 Domaine de Durban Muscat de Beaumes-de-Venise
    
14. Lucky British Girl (ie. ThatGirl's friend)- (combined with thatguy/thatgirl)
    
15. canonizer

This could be the Rhone tasting that was being discussed, or anything else. This could be a middle of March tasting if everyone so desires. Not too close to #9 and not too far from #8 for those that can't do #9.

Do any of these words mean something to you?

* Agiorghitiko
* Xinomavro
* Mandelaria
* Mavrodaphne
* Assyrtiko
* Athiri
* Lagorthi
* Malagousia
* Moschofilero
* Robola
* Roditis
* Savatiano

Then clearly this needs to be the GREEK WINE TASTING!

I move at the end of March, but before then I have a large 1 bedroom in Inwood. It just happens to be a few blocks away from pj wine. I'd be happy to host.

thatguy314 wrote:Do any of these words mean something to you?

* Agiorghitiko
* Xinomavro
* Mandelaria
* Mavrodaphne
* Assyrtiko
* Athiri
* Lagorthi
* Malagousia
* Moschofilero
* Robola
* Roditis
* Savatiano

Then clearly this needs to be the GREEK WINE TASTING!

Add some Xinisteri to the Xynomavro and you've got a fine Commandaria there!!!

Hey guys, depending on when we do it and how many people there are, i would be happy to host at my place. I can probably do 10-12 people indoors or as many as 40 outdoors. I would be happy to grill (if we want to do food pairings).

If not for #10 then for #11 or #12 for sure.

HitAnyKey42 wrote:The glorious #8 just finished last night, so it's time to put up #10 so that we have two out there.
Since #9 is going to be rather small, and way out in the Catskills, this one doesn't need to be at the end of March (as most of our tastings lately tend to have been).
The host just should be anyone other than Krugsters both to give them a break and cuz they'll have their hands full.

THEME: TBD

DATE: TBD
HOSTS: TBD
LOCATION: TBD
TIME: TBD

ATTENDEES LIST (so far):
Unknown at this time.

you really enjoy starting threads.

canonizer wrote:you really enjoy starting threads.

I don't enjoy it...it's my job.....hmmm, nah I guess I do actually enjoy it.

HitAnyKey42 wrote:I don't enjoy it...it's my job.....hmmm, nah I guess I do actually enjoy it.

I'd love to attend this one... But my wine knowledge is about zero... I'd need some guidance on what wine to pick up and where from

gijose wrote:I'd love to attend this one... But my wine knowledge is about zero... I'd need some guidance on what wine to pick up and where from

honestly, we typically have too much wine. Bringing something you enjoy eating, sparkling water, chairs, glasses or even lending a hand cleaning would all probably be well appreciated, if not a dozen other tasks that experienced hosts will think of.

canonizer wrote:honestly, we typically have too much wine. Bringing something you enjoy eating, sparkling water, chairs, glasses or even lending a hand cleaning would all probably be well appreciated, if not a dozen other tasks that experienced hosts will think of.

Or a better idea, as was discussed at the last tasting....offer to combine funds with another person so that the two of you are supplying a bottle that would typically be out of both of your price ranges. That way we get some nice higher quality (hopefully) wines to taste since they are the more expensive ones we don't normally get to do.

Especially if we make this an all Greek wines tasting (of which I currently have none) I'd personally be interested in combining funds with one or two other people to get acquire a higher priced bottle.

HitAnyKey42 wrote:Or a better idea, as was discussed at the last tasting....offer to combine funds with another person so that the two of you are supplying a bottle that would typically be out of both of your price ranges. That way we get some nice higher quality (hopefully) wines to taste since they are the more expensive ones we don't normally get to do.

Especially if we make this an all Greek wines tasting (of which I currently have none) I'd personally be interested in combining funds with one or two other people to get acquire a higher priced bottle.

This is not going to be the Greek tasting, not warm enough for that. And Greek wines are cheap anyway. This should probably be France.

HitAnyKey42 wrote:Or a better idea, as was discussed at the last tasting....offer to combine funds with another person so that the two of you are supplying a bottle that would typically be out of both of your price ranges. That way we get some nice higher quality (hopefully) wines to taste since they are the more expensive ones we don't normally get to do.

Especially if we make this an all Greek wines tasting (of which I currently have none) I'd personally be interested in combining funds with one or two other people to get acquire a higher priced bottle.

I think the notion of a greek tasting is quaint, if not cute. Decent Greek wines are not widely available and even good stores with excellent selections stick mostly to Retsina. I'd expand a "Greek Wine" tasting to Med wines, excepting Italy, and include Cyrpus, Macedonia and even some former Soviet Bloc countries just to make it more off label.

We're not going to learn a lot about Greek wines at one tasting, based on the number of native grapes in the country and the distribution of such.

Cesare wrote:This is not going to be the Greek tasting, not warm enough for that. And Greek wines are cheap anyway. This should probably be France.

canonizer wrote:I think the notion of a greek tasting is quaint, if not cute. Decent Greek wines are not widely available and even good stores with excellent selections stick mostly to Retsina. I'd expand a "Greek Wine" tasting to Med wines, excepting Italy, and include Cyrpus, Macedonia and even some former Soviet Bloc countries just to make it more off label.

We're not going to learn a lot about Greek wines at one tasting, based on the number of native grapes in the country and the distribution of such.

Works for me. I was never the one who suggested the greek wines tasting. Don't even recall who it was either. ahuhu
In any case, whatever we come up with for a theme, I still like the idea of multiple people combining funds for us to get multiple high end wines. Also to cut down on the massive number of bottles we go through sometimes.

canonizer wrote:I think the notion of a greek tasting is quaint, if not cute. Decent Greek wines are not widely available and even good stores with excellent selections stick mostly to Retsina. I'd expand a "Greek Wine" tasting to Med wines, excepting Italy, and include Cyrpus, Macedonia and even some former Soviet Bloc countries just to make it more off label.

We're not going to learn a lot about Greek wines at one tasting, based on the number of native grapes in the country and the distribution of such.

I dunno. Gary V would disagree. He would say that's where some of the best bargains are these days. I myself had some really spectacular greek wines when I went out with my parents a couple months ago (thus the idea) and I didn't know anything I just ordered randomly off the menu and went 3/3 and we didn't order one restina. I forget what the third was but we had an Assyrtika and a Xinomavro(sp?). I thought the latter was a particularly interesting grape (kinda pinot like in its acidity and mouthfeel but didn't remind me of pinot at all in its flavors). For the wine list we had see The Kellari Taverna Wine list

If we open it up to Italian wines then we're going to mostly get Italian wines. If you want to do more obscure mediteranian wines than I would say that's a different story.

In any event, part of this would be to be educational and learn about a different region. Part of the reason I'm interested is because it seems like an area where all/most of us are blank slates and have an opportunity to learn about it. Maybe it's the ADD in me, but I want to look at something jsut totally new. Sure, I think while some wines will be hit or miss. I think resinated wines like restina are merely a small part of the greek wine spectrum, and honestly, I'm not sure it's likely to be the one that most people think is the "good one." There are a number of more modern wines being made where they blend local and more traditional western grapes like Assyrtiko/Sauv blanc that the wine bible states are spectacular.

Furthermore, I'd argue we're not going to learn any less about Greek wine tasting one grape from a region than anywhere else. One Barbaresco does not tell us Barbaresco or one Rioja tell us Rioja, but we did an Italian and Spanish tasting. What's wrong with pushing our boundaries into the unfamiliar?

Anyways, I think it's easy to be dismissive of a winemaking region that you don't know a lot about. None of us know a lot about it. We might have a few misses, but I'm willing to bet we're going to have more than a few hits, and a lot they're going to be in the ~$20/under range, so the only major expense will be the time we allot for the tasting.

As for Cesare's comment, I think it might be wise to wait for warmer weather. But I think it's the kind of tasting I think we should keep in mind.

EDIT: a non-comprehensive list of stores in NYC that should carry greek wine

thatguy314 wrote:I dunno. Gary V would disagree. He would say that's where some of the best bargains are these days. I myself had some really spectacular greek wines when I went out with my parents a couple months ago (thus the idea) and I didn't know anything I just ordered randomly off the menu and went 3/3 and we didn't order one restina. I forget what the third was but we had an Assyrtika and a Xinomavro(sp?). I thought the latter was a particularly interesting grape (kinda pinot like in its acidity and mouthfeel but didn't remind me of pinot at all in its flavors). For the wine list we had see The Kellari Taverna Wine list

If we open it up to Italian wines then we're going to mostly get Italian wines. If you want to do more obscure mediteranian wines than I would say that's a different story.

In any event, part of this would be to be educational and learn about a different region. Part of the reason I'm interested is because it seems like an area where all/most of us are blank slates and have an opportunity to learn about it. Maybe it's the ADD in me, but I want to look at something jsut totally new. Sure, I think while some wines will be hit or miss. I think resinated wines like restina are merely a small part of the greek wine spectrum, and honestly, I'm not sure it's likely to be the one that most people think is the "good one." There are a number of more modern wines being made where they blend local and more traditional western grapes like Assyrtiko/Sauv blanc that the wine bible states are spectacular.

Furthermore, I'd argue we're not going to learn any less about Greek wine tasting one grape from a region than anywhere else. One Barbaresco does not tell us Barbaresco or one Rioja tell us Rioja, but we did an Italian and Spanish tasting. What's wrong with pushing our boundaries into the unfamiliar?

Anyways, I think it's easy to be dismissive of a winemaking region that you don't know a lot about. None of us know a lot about it. We might have a few misses, but I'm willing to bet we're going to have more than a few hits, and a lot they're going to be in the ~$20/under range, so the only major expense will be the time we allot for the tasting.

As for Cesare's comment, I think it might be wise to wait for warmer weather. But I think it's the kind of tasting I think we should keep in mind.

EDIT: a non-comprehensive list of stores in NYC that should carry greek wine

Um, what he said. It's silly to be dismissive of wines that you're not familiar with. FWIW, I live in Astoria, and have tasted very good $50 bottles of Greek red that are amazing. Of course there's good ol' retsina, but even that has many subtleties.

If we do go forward with a Greek tasting, I can easily preorder and acquire stuff from less-known regions; my local family-run place is very helpful and knowledgeable. I can also bring major eats along.

If we do this in warmer weather and do it at a house with a grill, I can get a case of yummy meat skewers for $50/50 sticks.

threemoons wrote:Um, what he said. It's silly to be dismissive of wines that you're not familiar with. FWIW, I live in Astoria, and have tasted very good $50 bottles of Greek red that are amazing. Of course there's good ol' retsina, but even that has many subtleties.

If we do go forward with a Greek tasting, I can easily preorder and acquire stuff from less-known regions; my local family-run place is very helpful and knowledgeable. I can also bring major eats along.

If we do this in warmer weather and do it at a house with a grill, I can get a case of yummy meat skewers for $50/50 sticks.

I vote warm weather + grilled meat + fish

Okay, so it's Greece in the summer. Meanwhile, what are you doing in March?

Rhône sounds really good and really easy to do. Perhaps Rhône versus new world Rhône blends? Centerpiece could be a head-to-head Chateau Beaucastel (Chateuneuf du Pape) against Tablas Creek Esprit de Beaucastel (Paso Robles). Tablas Creek is part owned by the Perrins, the same family that owns Beaucastel. The CdP would be an excellent opportunity to double up.

Could also bring in Rhône blends from South Africa and Australia, and maybe Languedoc-Rousillon for good measure.

Just a sugg.

iByron

iByron wrote:Okay, so it's Greece in the summer. Meanwhile, what are you doing in March?

I propose all the flavors of boone's farm. We can get a comprehensive list of flavors here

thatguy314 wrote:I propose all the flavors of boone's farm. We can get a comprehensive list of flavors here

Now that's the best idea I've heard yet! Ooh look a new flavor, wild cherry.
Seriously though, the next region should be France. All of it.

thatguy314 wrote:I propose all the flavors of boone's farm. We can get a comprehensive list of flavors here

Classic! I see they still make Strawberry Hill, and Apple Wine has been renamed "Apple Blossom".

Too bad about Tickle Pink. That was a fun one. ;)

iByron wrote:Classic! I see they still make Strawberry Hill, and Apple Wine has been renamed "Apple Blossom".

Too bad about Tickle Pink. That was a fun one. ;)

I actually believe I have a bottle of the 2001 Tickle Pink aging in my parents basement. If I remember, Parker gave it a drinking window of 2010-2025, though I might be convinced to break it out for such a tasting.

Well, as it's the endish of winter (but still the yuckiest months/weather on the calendar year), why not do something from a French region with robust wines that go well with filling/keep-warm food? Just an idea.

And DO keep me in the loop RE Greek Outdoors Thing. By then, my CSA will have started so I'll be inundated with all sorts of organic veggies and fruits and whatnot. And I'll have time to arrange that case of skewers.

I'm happy to kick into a kitty if someone wants to take on the job. GV and a single specialized store in Astoria aside, it would be silly to ask people to go to their local haunts and pick up Greek wine because it will largely be bad.

canonizer wrote:I'm happy to kick into a kitty if someone wants to take on the job. GV and a single specialized store in Astoria aside, it would be silly to ask people to go to their local haunts and pick up Greek wine because it will largely be bad.

Frankly, I find your reasoning to be unnecessarily snobby, and hilarious.

If you know so much about Greek wine to conclude our offerings will be largely bad, would you care to tell us what the good ones are?

Alternatively, you could trust that the people in this thread put a bit of thought into their contributions, and might do things like research, reading reviews, asking around, or even preliminary tastings.

afranke wrote:Frankly, I find your reasoning to be unnecessarily snobby, and hilarious.

If you know so much about Greek wine to conclude our offerings will be largely bad, would you care to tell us what the good ones are?

Alternatively, you could trust that the people in this thread put a bit of thought into their contributions, and might do things like research, reading reviews, asking around, or even preliminary tastings.

Indeed. Constructive comments would help. FWIW I can probably also get a waycoolio wall map of some sort from my local merchant as well. There's also a large multi-region wine shop near the 30th ave. stop on the N.

And yes, pork skewers are $50 for $50.

Anyone want to center greek wine tasting around a lamb roast? I know Loweeel does.

thatguy314 wrote:Anyone want to center greek wine tasting around a lamb roast? I know Loweeel does.

only if it's an entire lamb.

gijose wrote:only if it's an entire lamb.

What other kind is there?

afranke wrote:
Alternatively, you could trust that the people in this thread put a bit of thought into their contributions, and might do things like research, reading reviews, asking around, or even preliminary tastings.

Isn't this what I was doing when I said:

canonizer wrote:I'm happy to kick into a kitty if someone wants to take on the job.

I'm not downplaying the quality or historical significance of Greek wine. I'm highlighting its availability.

We've met at several tastings. I hope I don't come off so poorly in person.

So I think we've already established that the Greek Wine tasting would be tabled until the spring/summer to take advantage of the warmer weather. Maybe it is time to focus on what tasting #10 will actually be, like FRANCE.

kttest wrote:So I think we've already established that the Greek Wine tasting would be tabled until the spring/summer to take advantage of the warmer weather. Maybe it is time to focus on what tasting #10 will actually be, like FRANCE.

There are so many wine regions in france, I think we should subdivide France a bit.

From what I gather there are these main regions:
• Alsace
• Bordeaux
• Burgundy
• Champagne
• Côtes du Rhône
• Languedoc-Roussillon
• Loire Valley
• Provence • Corsica
• South West

Many of which can themselves be subdivided heavily.

I think we could get a lot of versatility doing rhone, but it would be a lot of syrah and grenache heavy reds, and viognier, marsanne, rousanne whites. If we're limiting to 10-12 bottles again, I think this could be a good idea. But we could also do maybe 2 regions. Like I think it would be hard for everyone to get good Burgundy or Bordeaux at a later tasting for reasonable prices, so maybe Burgundy / Bordeaux together... anyways just a thought. Since North / South rhone are very different it makes a good tasting by itself.

Is there anyone who doesn't like the rhone idea?

thatguy314 wrote:
Is there anyone who doesn't like the rhone idea?

Rhone is a good idea, unless we want to treat the first French tasting like we did Italy & Spain by getting a sampling of all regions to see how French wines in general differ and then focus on specific regions at future tastings. Just another thought to throw out there.

kttest wrote:Rhone is a good idea, unless we want to treat the first French tasting like we did Italy & Spain by getting a sampling of all regions to see how French wines in general differ and then focus on specific regions at future tastings. Just another thought to throw out there.

Yeah I agree, an overview of France would be nice just like we did Spain and Italy. Thatguy, your list looks good. If we do reds and whites from some regions (especially Bordeaux and Burgundy) we can get at least 12 wines. I know it can be tough to get any kind of decent bottle for a good price for some of them, like Burgundy. But maybe this is a good time for people to team up and split up the cost of a good bottle. That way if we have 20 people again we won't end up with too much wine.
For reference: French wine wiki here

RE Greek Tasting--when the date approaches, let me know--if we pass the hat for a whole baby lamb I can make the arrangements RE ordering, etc. Yesterday, instead of watching men dressed like Volkswagens beat the bejeezus out of each other over a piece of over-cured bacon rind I purchased and roasted a fresh, hoof-on smallish leg of lamb from my local butcher (cooked to perfect Very Rare at 140 internal temp) and it was...beyond...spectacular. I would order it from those folks in a heartbeat. But I digress...

RE France--I also like the idea of a flyover of all regions, or perhaps a particular set of subregions (ie east vs. west, etc).

Are we going to do the "some folks bring food and others wine" thing or will everyone bring both? Up for either. If the former I can bring nice cheese and bread or maybe even cook a warm dish if reheating options are available.

[This space to be used as a different post from me later on, as I mixed up the tastings and the original post from me is meaningless]

Gosh you guys have been busy today!

I think we really need to treat each section of France (as per thatguy's list) separately.
It's too overwhelming to combine any of these regions and, IMHO, even the Rhone should be split into the North and South.

You can find really great values, even for Burgundy, you just have to look. And as someone mentioned before 2 people can get together and purchase a nicer bottle.

If we have a summer get together at the house in the Catskills we can roast a suckling pig or a lamb on a spit in the backyard. We have a local farm where we can source the meat.

It would actually be great if we could find someone with a yard or grill in the 5 boros or closeish to it; any kind of overnite travel is sort of hard for some of us...

Krugsters wrote:Gosh you guys have been busy today!

I think we really need to treat each section of France (as per thatguy's list) separately.
It's too overwhelming to combine any of these regions and, IMHO, even the Rhone should be split into the North and South.

I'd say I'm closer to the middle -- but not in the middle -- on this. I agree that the regions should be taken on separately as there is so much diversity and regionality amongst French wines. Not that it doesn't exist in Spain or Italy, but it's much more marked in France (whether that's truly real or perceived is up for debate, but it's the environment in which we live).

I also think that if we did France we'd wind up really heavy on Bordeaux and Burgundy at the expense of the other regions, and really red-heavy by virtue of ease of access in the market.

I don't think we'd need to go so far as to split the Vallée du Rhône though, or even that we couldn't combine two or even three regions. Vallée du Rhône and Languedoc-Rousillon. Le Sud-Ouest and Bordeaux. Alsace, Champagne, and Jura et Savoie. Jura et Savoie, Provence and Corsica. Burgundy and Beaujolais. Charentes and Val de Loire.

Some of those pairings have to do with history (Bordeaux and SW have an interstingly intertwined past) and some with geography (some say Beaujolais is part of Burgundy) and some with style (Lang-Rous tends toward Rhône varietals). They'd accommodate some of the "lesser' regions without getting them lost in the general French shuffle.

iByron

New Yorker's are so busy we don't post often but just drink a lot of good wine.

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