Wine.Woot : One Week, One Wine (SM)

Does anyone know if these wines have been rated?

canonizer wrote:For counter perspctive, add in a general $/ml premium on splits and it offers a unique 'tasting' opportunity for an expensive wine that you wouldn't necessarily buy otherwise.

That is exactly why I bought it.

denise4080 wrote:That is exactly why I bought it.

Yeah, it's a really good perspective. It's ordinarily outside of what I'd get, but the half bottles make it do-able.

groussel wrote:Does anyone know if these wines have been rated?

I do not believe these have been rated yet. Stand by and these will be rated by someone either tomorrow or Wednesday (crosses fingers and hopes the rats do their job).

I'm glad to see some half bottles! Most nights I only drink one glass of wine. Since it takes me at least several days to drink a bottle, I hesitate to open an expensive 750 ml bottle unless I have company. The 350 ml size is perfect for me. Just have to decide whether to purchase 2 or 3.

groussel wrote:Does anyone know if these wines have been rated?

Wine Enthusiast has rated all three:

2001 92 points
From a producer that thoroughly understands Napa Bordeaux wines comes this classically proportioned blend, which is dominated by Cabernet Sauvignon. It impresses by its balance, elegance and richness. The blackberry and cherry flavors are enriched with oak, leading to a long and satisfying finish. Drink now through 2010. — S.H. (3/1/2006)

2002 94 points
Elu is St. Supery’s Napa Valley Bordeaux blend. Largely Cabernet Sauvignon, with a little Merlot and Petit Verdot, it is really a gorgeous wine. Hard to describe how smooth and rich it feels in the mouth. There’s lots of dusty tannins, rich blackberry essence, cherry fruit and chocolate flavor, and sweet toasty oak. The wine is beautiful now, but it should glide along and improve for another 10 years. — S.H. (3/1/2007)

2003 88 points
Less rich and more rustic than the fabulous ’02, this Cabernet-based Bordeaux blend shows herb, tobacco, black currant and new oak flavors. The tannins are hard, but the wine doesn’t seem like it has the fruity stuffing to age. Drink now through 2009. — S.H. (3/1/2008)

i ordered the first offering of st supery way back when (june of '06), and once a year a get a call from their wine shop, the same guy every year i think, who offers me up their wines at, or close to wine club prices ( i am not a member)
he is extremely nice and not at all pushy, he actually just called but i have bought too much on woot.. the point is i really enjoy their call once a year and have enjoyed all of their wines. my wife is not much of a cab drinker but enjoyed the Elu when i ordered it last...

rpm wrote:That generic BV "burgundy" could really be quite good. In some years (1970 and 1978 immediately come to mind), BV held significant amounts of it back from the market for several years, releasing it at a premium with sufficient bottle age to be fairly mature. Some of the 1970 was released into the market as late as 1980 or 1981 - it was available wholesale in New York in 1981. It was great juice at a price just below the then current Rutherford Cabernet Sauvignon.

RPM, this is sort of tangential, but did you have the opportunity to taste BV Georges de Latour Reserve Cabs from the period when Tchelistcheff was the enologist/winemaker (especially prior to Heublein's buyout)? Same question on Inglenook, prior to being sold to corporate conglomerates that systematically destroyed its reputation by bottling plonk under the name.

I've been reading about the older 'names' in Napa, many of which have been reduced to generic grocery store wines. It would be interesting to know what top Napa wines were like prior to the new oak, celebrity winemaker and vanity wine era.

Would the majority of people agree with the following:

Great wine but can mostly buy for same price per ml elsewhere and is therefore not a worthwhile buy for woot?

Save $$ for upcoming offers?

Im a college student and on limited $$!!!!

gcdyersb wrote:RPM, this is sort of tangential, but did you have the opportunity to taste BV Georges de Latour Reserve Cabs from the period when Tchelistcheff was the enologist/winemaker (especially prior to Heublein's buyout)? Same question on Inglenook, prior to being sold to corporate conglomerates that systematically destroyed its reputation by bottling plonk under the name.

I've been reading about the older 'names' in Napa, many of which have been reduced to generic grocery store wines. It would be interesting to know what top Napa wines were like prior to the new oak, celebrity winemaker and vanity wine era.

Yes. None from the '30s, but a few vintages in the 40s, several in the '50s, and everything after that. George Deuer, John Daniel's winemaker at Inglenook, left when John sold Inglenook in 1964, but Andre Tchelistcheff stayed on after Heublin bought BV well into the '70s. Inglenook declined drastically in quality after 1964, sadly through some of the greatest vintages of the 20th century in the late 1960s and 1970. (That said, some individually great wines were made at Inglenook during those years, especially some Charbonos, but the Cask Cabs weren't up to George's wines) BV quality didn't really slip until the mid to late 70s, depending on your take on them.

If you want to know what those wines were more or less like, try Cathy Corison's Cabernet Sauvignons. Her grapes come from the same part of Rutherford and she intentionally makes wines in that style.

It's not exact, of course, and each winery had its own style. Broadly, Inglenook tended to be more austere in youth, BV had a sunnier youth, both had a dumb period from about 5 to about 10, varying a year or two on each end depending on vintage characteristics, with maturity coming in their teens (their twenties in great years like 1941, 1970).

egzgg wrote:Would the majority of people agree with the following:

Great wine but can mostly buy for same price per ml elsewhere and is therefore not a worthwhile buy for woot?

Save $$ for upcoming offers?

Im a college student and on limited $$!!!!

I doubt you will top this price. Especially considering these are library wines. For me the $35 per 750 mL is more than I'm willing to spend, but this is a unique offer.

gcdyersb wrote:I doubt you will top this price. Especially considering these are library wines. For me the $35 per 750 mL is more than I'm willing to spend, but this is a unique offer.

Further: I don't think you can get it as this price/ml in any size and, when you consider that there is normally a premium on splits, this becomes a greater bargain.

gcdyersb wrote:RPM, this is sort of tangential, but did you have the opportunity to taste BV Georges de Latour Reserve Cabs from the period when Tchelistcheff was the enologist/winemaker (especially prior to Heublein's buyout)? Same question on Inglenook, prior to being sold to corporate conglomerates that systematically destroyed its reputation by bottling plonk under the name.

I've been reading about the older 'names' in Napa, many of which have been reduced to generic grocery store wines. It would be interesting to know what top Napa wines were like prior to the new oak, celebrity winemaker and vanity wine era.

I had the BV latour 58 last week, tasted like a wine 2 decades younger. Drinking fresh and full of fruit. Doesn't hurt that it was still in the same cellar from the date of release till now.

Are these a true vertical in that the grapes are sourced from the exact same vineyard/block for each of the 3 years?

kurtswa wrote:Are these a true vertical in that the grapes are sourced from the exact same vineyard/block for each of the 3 years?

The blend changes so dramatically year to year, I'm interested in what characteristics led them to the various percentages.

Also meant to ask above- are the grapes for this label of their wines (Elu) sourced from their Rutherford property or are only their more expensive Dollarhide Ranch wines from their Rutherford estate?

clayfu wrote:I had the BV latour 58 last week, tasted like a wine 2 decades younger. Drinking fresh and full of fruit. Doesn't hurt that it was still in the same cellar from the date of release till now.

Do you have any additional notes? This seems like a wine that would be ideal to appreciate with maybe 4 or 5 people over a few hours. Did it evolve with exposure to air?

gcdyersb wrote:Do you have any additional notes? This seems like a wine that would be ideal to appreciate with maybe 4 or 5 people over a few hours. Did it evolve with exposure to air?

i meant to say last month hehe but the CT notes you see on the wine (the first two) are from that tasting. I didn't take notes but other people did.

gcdyersb wrote:Still a good deal with 375s. Works out to about $35 per bottle on a $50-$60 retail wine.

Likely a pass, though, since that $30+ point is not easy to cross for me.

gcdyersb wrote:What's the breakdown of new and used barrels for these wines? Is the new oak French, or both French and American?

These vintages of St. Supery ELU red Meritage wines were aged for 18 months as single varietal wines in approx. 80% French oak barrels, 20% American, 40-50% new oak. After blending, the final blend went back into barrel for 6 months before bottling.

villanim wrote:Do not know how you figured out the cost being $35 a bottle, as it is selling for 49.99 total. This works out to $18.33 a bottle with shipping, $16.69 if you have the discount code for shipping discount. Pretty good deal either way if you ask me.

$35 per 750ml bottle.

deaconbluez wrote:Wine Enthusiast has rated all three: ...
2001 92 points ...
2002 94 points ...
2003 88 points ...

For what it's worth, below is what I found in the Wine Spectator online database when I entered "St. Supery Elu".

Élu Meritage Napa Valley 2001
Score: 88 (edit: Very Good)
Release Price: $50
Issue: Nov 15, 2005
Well-crafted, with ripe, rich, complex herb, currant, cedar and sage, supported by firm, ripe tannins that, along with lively acidity, give it structure and length. Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Petit Verdot and Cabernet Franc. Best from 2006 through 2011. 4,700 cases made. –JL

Élu Napa Valley 2002
Score: 83 (edit: Good)
Release Price: $60
Issue: Web Only - 2006
Austere, with firm tannins wrapped around black olive, currant, sage, herb and cedar notes. Finishes with a dry, tannic aftertaste. Decant. Drink now through 2009. 4,800 cases made. –JL

kurtswa wrote:Also meant to ask above- are the grapes for this label of their wines (Elu) sourced from their Rutherford property or are only their more expensive Dollarhide Ranch wines from their Rutherford estate?

All grapes for these wines are from St. Supery's Rutherford estate and Dollarhide estate. All red bordeaux varieties are planted at Dollarhide, all except Malbec grown on Rutherford estate. ELU red Meritage wines almost always have Rutherford wines in the blend, all have Dollarhide. Our "Dollarhide" Limited Edition Cabernet (most expensive wine) come 100% from Dollarhide.

kurtswa wrote:Are these a true vertical in that the grapes are sourced from the exact same vineyard/block for each of the 3 years?

St. Supery ELU red Meritage represents the best blend of bordeaux varietals produced by St. Supery's two estate vineyards each vintage. The winery has over 250 acres of Napa Valley estate vineyards dedicated to red bordeaux varieties. Each vintage of this wine has a slightly different composition of varietals and vineyard sources.

Snooth.com reviews on St. Supery ELU red Meritage http://www.snooth.com/wines/elu/

And Cellar Tracker:
http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Notes&szSearch=ELU

clayfu wrote:I had the BV latour 58 last week, tasted like a wine 2 decades younger. Drinking fresh and full of fruit. Doesn't hurt that it was still in the same cellar from the date of release till now.

I'm glad to hear the '58 is still holding up well, I haven't tasted it since the early '80s when it was in gorgeous maturity. I seem to recall it was a big wine, almost a textbook example of Cab aroma/flavor, but with noticeable oak as late as 1968 or 1970. It wasn't the most complex Latour then, has it gained subtlety?

villanim wrote:Do not know how you figured out the cost being $35 a bottle, as it is selling for 49.99 total. This works out to $18.33 a bottle with shipping, $16.69 if you have the discount code for shipping discount. Pretty good deal either way if you ask me.

I was calculating ~$35 per 750 mL bottle. You get 3x 375 mL, so the equivalent of 1.5 "full" bottles of wine. Didn't feel the need to calculate down to the level of cents.

jplamb wrote:A residual sugar of .02 means they are NOT sweet. These are cabernet blends so they will be dry wines.

Just for the sake of clarity, they're not dry because they're Cabernet blends. They're dry because they were made that way.

There are Cabernet based dessert wines out there to be had (these just aren't they).

iByron

clayfu wrote:i meant to say last month hehe but the CT notes you see on the wine (the first two) are from that tasting. I didn't take notes but other people did.

Sounds like a most excellent experience, once in a lifetime. Almost like an archeological discovery, given age and provenance. And for $5, an inflation calculator estimates this would be about $40 now. Probably has to be one of the best QPRs ever. Not cheap at all, but I doubt an "average" Napa wine at that price would develop for 4 decades.

It's interesting that there are still some winemakers trained in the Tchelistcheff mold. My local favorite, Longoria, makes sure to point that out. But it does seem to be an older generation maintaining that tradition.

Does anyone know if this wine contains nitrites?

gcdyersb wrote:RPM, this is sort of tangential, but did you have the opportunity to taste BV Georges de Latour Reserve Cabs from the period when Tchelistcheff was the enologist/winemaker (especially prior to Heublein's buyout)? Same question on Inglenook, prior to being sold to corporate conglomerates that systematically destroyed its reputation by bottling plonk under the name.

Funny you mention the BV Georges de Latour Reserve Cab. WTSO has the 2006 up right now on their marathon Monday. $64.99

WTSO!

For the relative wine newbie, could someone please clarify the use of the term Bordeaux for me? My understanding was that only wines from the Bordeaux region could be labeled Bordeaux, but it seems that in casual conversation that the word is used to describe any blended wine. Am I understanding this correctly?

FallenCptJack wrote:For the relative wine newbie, could someone please clarify the use of the term Bordeaux for me? My understanding was that only wines from the Bordeaux region could be labeled Bordeaux, but it seems that in casual conversation that the word is used to describe any blended wine. Am I understanding this correctly?

Good info here:
http://www.meritagewine.org/what-is-meritage

FallenCptJack wrote:For the relative wine newbie, could someone please clarify the use of the term Bordeaux for me? My understanding was that only wines from the Bordeaux region could be labeled Bordeaux, but it seems that in casual conversation that the word is used to describe any blended wine. Am I understanding this correctly?

There are much more knowledgable people on these boards than me to answer this in more depth. But you are correct. For a wine to truely be labeled (Bordeaux) it has to come from the Bordeaux region of France. The same scenario with "Champagne" or "Burgundy".
There are lots of blends made in the U.S. as well as other countries that will use the term (just as St. Supery is doing) as blends of classic Bordeaux grape varietals to describe their wine.
The 5 permitted grapes of a Bordeaux blend are: Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Petit Verdot and Malbec.

Hope this helps.

kurtswa wrote:There are much more knowledgable people on these boards than me to answer this in more depth. But you are correct. For a wine to truely be labeled (Bordeaux) it has to come from the Bourdeaux region of France. The same scenario with "Champagne" or "Burgundy".
There are lots of blends made in the U.S. as well as other countries that will use the term (just as St. Supery is doing) as blends of classic Bordeaux grape varietals to describe their wine.
The 5 permitted grapes of a Bordeaux blend are: Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Petit Verdot and Malbec.

Hope this helps.

Yes, it does very much. Thank you.

dogloverdeb824 wrote:Does anyone know if this wine contains nitrites?

There are no nitrites other than what might actually occur in the grapes themselves.

The art on each label of these wines is created by illustrators, normally found in the New Yorker magazine, who are commissioned to depict what St. Supery might have looked like. There was no actual "saint" with this name. St. Supery Winery is named after a French winemaker from Bordeaux, Edward St. Supery, who lived in the winery's Victorian house in the late 1800s.

solarfish42 wrote:On my last trip out to Sonoma, I was kindly advised (by the folks at Papapietro Perry) that 375's don't age as well as 750's.

At the risk of this topic being beat to death, saying 375's don't age as well as 750's is kind of like saying 750's don't age as well as magnums, which is also true. But, does that stop you from aging 750's?

SmilingBoognish wrote:At the risk of this topic being beat to death, saying 375's don't age as well as 750's is kind of like saying 750's don't age as well as magnums, which is also true. But, does that stop you from aging 750's?

Well said.