Wine.Woot : One Week, One Wine (SM)

UnFlammable wrote:On review poems--
Why you gotta be like that?
It's all in good fun.

Didn't say I didn't like it. Just noticing a trend in his/her posts and was curious. Hence the

Found this nugget in a description of a flatware set on Amazon.

"The composition of 18/0 stainless steel means the steel contains 18 percent chromium for strength yet no nickel to provide corrosion-resistance. As a result, though dishwasher-safe, the flatware should be promptly washed and dried whenever possible."

UnFlammable wrote:
As per the knives. On one hand, I could really use a set of knives. On the other, I could really use a set of GOOD knives.

A few years ago, after I gave up on the mid-cheap knives I used to own that had been completely trashed by the ex, I bought one good Santoku knife, figuring that one good knife would cost only a little more than a whole set of lousy knives, and I'd get by with that one until I could buy more good knives.

Several years later, I still have one good knife. (The best laid plans...)

I hone it regularly, and that knife works for just about everything. I can't do fancy garnishes, but then I probably wouldn't anyway. If cash is a concern and you don't need a different knife for every task, consider doing that.

cheron98 wrote:do you ever speak in normal sentences or is this how you go about your day, speaking in verse?

i
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best

full tang, triple rivets, $19.99... Yeah I got some in-laws that will be getting these for Xmas. They think Chicago Cutlery is high quality.

odysseus1001 wrote:With a list price of $80. That's not reassuring . . . the list price for many individual good knives can be $80 each. (Yes, I know that many people swear by the Victorinox at around $20, but even that has a list price of $40 for just one knife).

Also, I have to wonder about the measurements. An 8" paring knife? really? Your average chef's knife is 8" (with a 10" being a very long knife). And a 13 inch chef's knive? That doesn't seem right to me.

I'm guessing those measurements include the handle? 8" chef's + 5" handle makes sense, same thing with the paring knife.

$20 bucks for a forged full tang set is worth it to me to try out. Extra points because they're actually all useable knives (instead of a chef's knife, bread knife and 6 steak knives or something). I don't need a knife set right now, but if I did I'd be all over these. Buy them, try them, if they have a decent balance and heft (and you like the way they feel in your hand), keep them! If not, a forged knife set w/block always makes an expensive-looking xmas gift =D

I'd say $20 for these plus another $20 or so to sharpen the ones you really use once a year from a reputable sharpener would be a great starting point for aspiring cooks.

nvaine wrote:A few years ago, after I gave up on the mid-cheap knives I used to own that had been completely trashed by the ex, I bought one good Santoku knife, figuring that one good knife would cost only a little more than a whole set of lousy knives, and I'd get by with that one until I could buy more good knives.

Several years later, I still have one good knife. (The best laid plans...)

I hone it regularly, and that knife works for just about everything. I can't do fancy garnishes, but then I probably wouldn't anyway. If cash is a concern and you don't need a different knife for every task, consider doing that.

I agree with you except I think it is important to have one good paring knife for precision. Those two knives will take care of virtually everything but slicing bread.

cheron98 wrote:Looks like they might be a decent starter set, but with knives, you're usually better off investing the money in a higher quality set.

Unless you don't really care and don't mind having to sharpen them before every use...

I do not have these, but I am picky when it comes to my cutlery.

I just bought a knife block to hold my knives and I paid $15.. I could have gotten this one with knives!! don't expect those to be like a $300 set, but those are forged knives (not stamped) and for this price it is a no brainer.

Here's a nice guide to buying and maintaining knives:

http://gizmodo.com/5348996/youre-doing-it-wrong-how-to-properly-buy-maintain-and-use-a-knife

Also, an easy and creative DIY knife block:

http://www.chrisdiclerico.com/2005/09/17/knife-block-copy/

You're welcome ;)

awilder wrote:Wow, hard to find these anywhere else on the intarwebs.

However, I did find 'em at Quick Click and Buy LLC (?!) on sale for $59.99...

Thanks. I've been scouring page after page looking for these somewhere. You saved my eyes. I'm in for two for presents.

I was in for two, until I read that it's 18/0. sorry

i just wanted to comment that the name of the 'first sucker' is beefqueef.

Algernon wrote:full tang, triple rivets, $19.99... Yeah I got some in-laws that will be getting these for Xmas. They think Chicago Cutlery is high quality.

Chicago Cutlery knives are good quality - they are aimed at being the best knives at a reasonable price and do it very well.

My father is an experienced and prolific cook, and he has been using his set for over 25 years. Yes, more than a quarter of a century. He hones them often and they get hand washed with care. They are still in excellent condition and remain his favorite knife set. The only addition has been a santoku to compliment the chefs' knife.

Yes, there are much better knives out there. But, I seriously question the opinion of anyone that thinks the increase in quality is worth the price to anyone other than the rich and the most discerning cooks.

I assure you that my father is picky and makes no compromises on purchasing quality products - he drives old BMWs, rides a Ducati, owns a Kevlar Sawyer canoe and listens to music through a vintage McIntosh audio receiver. In other words, he doesn't settle for lesser products but considers value to be important as well. If his Chicago Cutlery knives were not up to his standards he would have certainly gotten a better set.

I wonder how these taste. Was it a good year for iron?

Algernon wrote:full tang, triple rivets, $19.99... Yeah I got some in-laws that will be getting these for Xmas. They think Chicago Cutlery is high quality.

There are some Chicago Cutlery knives that are really good for the home; the ones that come with free for ever knife sharpening and are usually sold by reps. I've never used them in the professional kitchen though.
If these are Dexter, that's good.
Best all around knife for me is a Lamson chinese vegetable cleaver (around $40). Dexter makes a good one too (something like an 8 or 9 inch blade, same price or better). Used them day in day out in professional kitchens that hand cut everything.
Big tip to rookies: get a big knife and a big cutting board - you'll double your speed easily.

bugdave wrote:I wonder how these taste. Was it a good year for iron?

Iron, not so much, stainless steel on the other hand, it was a great year!

I find this offering surprising. I know on occasion this site offers more than wine. It's always been something like a fine cheese or a fine balsamic vinegar or something related to wine. If it's cutlery, it should be fine cutlery. It should be a good Henckels or Wusthof. I personally own Mundial. These would be fine sets of knives for cooking up a fine meal to go with a fine wine. This offering may be descent for the price, but it's certainly not fine.

edwinguz wrote:I find this offering surprising. I know on occasion this site offers more than wine. It's always been something like a fine cheese or a fine balsamic vinegar or something related to wine. If it's cutlery, it should be fine cutlery. It should be a good Henckels or Wusthof. I personally own Mundial. These would be fine sets of knives for cooking up a fine meal to go with a fine wine. This offering may be descent for the price, but it's certainly not fine.

okay, FINE... ;-)

BlackbeardBen wrote:Chicago Cutlery knives are good quality - they are aimed at being the best knives at a reasonable price and do it very well.

My father is an experienced and prolific cook, and he has been using his set for over 25 years. Yes, more than a quarter of a century. He hones them often and they get hand washed with care. They are still in excellent condition and remain his favorite knife set. The only addition has been a santoku to compliment the chefs' knife.

Yes, there are much better knives out there. But, I seriously question the opinion of anyone that thinks the increase in quality is worth the price to anyone other than the rich and the most discerning cooks.

I assure you that my father is picky and makes no compromises on purchasing quality products - he drives old BMWs, rides a Ducati, owns a Kevlar Sawyer canoe and listens to music through a vintage McIntosh audio receiver. In other words, he doesn't settle for lesser products but considers value to be important as well. If his Chicago Cutlery knives were not up to his standards he would have certainly gotten a better set.

I'm sure that the "Made in USA" Chicago Cutlery knives of 25 years ago were very nice but that has no bearing on the quality of today's Chicago Cutlery knives. A lot can change in 25 years.

edwinguz wrote:I find this offering surprising. I know on occasion this site offers more than wine. It's always been something like a fine cheese or a fine balsamic vinegar or something related to wine. If it's cutlery, it should be fine cutlery. It should be a good Henckels or Wusthof. I personally own Mundial. These would be fine sets of knives for cooking up a fine meal to go with a fine wine. This offering may be descent for the price, but it's certainly not fine.

I FIND it quite comforting to know that you use FINE cutlery to prepare your FINE meals to have with your FINE wines!

Incidentally, is SHUN cutlery FINE enough for you?

Sheesh.

dawgdave99 wrote:I'm sure that the "Made in USA" Chicago Cutlery knives of 25 years ago were very nice but that has no bearing on the quality of today's Chicago Cutlery knives. A lot can change in 25 years.

Good point. But, over 25 years the techniques for forging have improved dramatically as well, regardless of where the knives are made. At an equivalent purchase price today, better knives can be had.

Of course, none of these things necessarily mean anything about the quality of Chicago Cutlery's knives today compared to then. We don't know how the prices compare nor how the knives will perform given the same amount of use.

wootvan wrote:The whole Connoisseur line seems very inexpensive and largely unreviewed. This is likely a case of "you get what you pay for" and I would suggest that if you need knives for hacking pumpkins or zombies necks these might do the trick for one or two.

Who cares what the block is made of; it's a terrible way to store knives.

I have to agree with you, these can't compare with Shun or Wusthof knives.

kahawken wrote:I have to agree with you, these can't compare with Shun or Wusthof knives.

Not everyone has a couple hundred dollars to drop on a single knife. My main concern is whether these knives are better than my current knife (a 7" forged santoku I got on clearance in a kitchen store for about $10) and worth upgrading.

Abstruse wrote:Not everyone has a couple hundred dollars to drop on a single knife. My main concern is whether these knives are better than my current knife (a 7" forged santoku I got on clearance in a kitchen store for about $10) and worth upgrading.

This is my concern too. I already have a 15 dollar chef knife from Chicago Cutlery and a 10 dollar mini-santoku knife from Farberware. They already seem fairly sharp after running them through a Smith sharpener, so I'm wondering if these knives are at least as good quality. I could use a block set, but if these knives aren't at least as good as the ones I've got, I've still got two good knives and a block full of scaffolding ones.

wootvan wrote:

Who cares what the block is made of; it's a terrible way to store knives.

Why is that? And what are the best ways to store knives?

Agentbolt wrote:This is my concern too. I already have a 15 dollar chef knife from Chicago Cutlery and a 10 dollar mini-santoku knife from Farberware. They already seem fairly sharp after running them through a Smith sharpener, so I'm wondering if these knives are at least as good quality. I could use a block set, but if these knives aren't at least as good as the ones I've got, I've still got two good knives and a block full of scaffolding ones.

My guess is that these knives will not be an improvement on knives you are currently happy with. But this set gives you a sharpening steel, a bread knife and some hefty scissors that could come in handy. So even if you don't use the other four knives, you will still be getting some useful items, for a good price.

speedoo wrote:Why is that? And what are the best ways to store knives?

Wood blocks can harbor germs and trap moisture in them. If you make sure your knives are clean and dry when you store them in the block then you should be fine.

Some people use magnetic strips to store knives in order to avoid the sanitation issues.

Just don't ever leave your knives in the drawer with the rest of your utensils. That's a really good way to ruin the edges.

BlackbeardBen wrote:Wood blocks can harbor germs and trap moisture in them. If you make sure your knives are clean and dry when you store them in the block then you should be fine.

Some people use magnetic strips to store knives in order to avoid the sanitation issues.

Just don't ever leave your knives in the drawer with the rest of your utensils. That's a really good way to ruin the edges.

Thanks. Confirms what I thought was the case.

speedoo wrote:Why is that? And what are the best ways to store knives?

A magnetic bar you mount on the wall, those plastic safe-blade cases, or a one of those racks that have open bottoms.

The reason a knife block like this is the worst way to store a knife is that it's impossible to clean. Water or food gets in the knife slots and that attracts bacteria and then they start breeding and work into the wood and it's just bad.

Good rule of thumb: If you don't have a way to clean it, keep it out of the kitchen. Same rule is why I only have manual can openers.

Just picked up a set of Cutco Knives last week, should be arriving any day now..

Should have been Shun......

Daystar wrote:Should have been Shun......

If it'd been a Shun for $20, it would've sold out in 15 seconds.

speedoo wrote:Why is that? And what are the best ways to store knives?

In addition to what others have mentioned, every time you slide the knife into the wooden block you're dulling the blade. If you decide to store them in the block, put them in upside down.

greenmonkey125 wrote:I always heard 18/10 steel was the best. This means 18% chromium and 10% nickel... but not sure if 0% nickel is okay for knives?

0% nickel is OK for normal tableware use but, be prepared for the knives to corrode over time. See the articles below...

Stainless steel used in flatware is a composite of different steels and varies in terms of grades for different uses. The main ingredient in flatware is chromium and nickel has been added to provide a resistance to corrosion.

Therefore flatware that is 18/10 means that 18% is chromium and 10% is nickel. The higher the nickel content, the more protection the flatware has from corrosion. Prices of stainless steel flatware vary considerably depending on these specs, so don’t be fooled into thinking you are buying the best quality, if the nickel content is 0%.

However, some flatware manufacturers will label cutlery with a slighter higher than 8% nickel content, such as 8.3% as 18/10, since it doesn’t quite fit in the 18/8 category, and this is allowable. A little deceiving, none the less.

It should be noted that even the best stainless steel flatware is subject to occasional pitting and corrosion. These can usually be removed with a stainless steel cleanser.

When shopping, take time to open the flatware package and handle a utensil. An 18/10 spoon has a great ‘feel’ in your hand, the polish is gleaming and it should look very elegant. Such quality flatware is definitely worth paying the higher price.

And last, check the flatware packaging for other product information, especially international or national standards, to ensure this flatware product meets acceptable standards for your area. After all, you want to be sporting these new quality table tools for years to come.

--------

Compositions of '18/8', '18/10' and 18/0'

These figures relate to the chromium and nickel contents of the steel, respectively.

'18/8' is probably the most commonly used stainless steel and contains 18% chromium and 8% nickel.
This steel is also known as '304' (in the American AISI grade designation system) or 1.4301 in the European BS EN 10088 standard.
It is an 'austenitic' type of stainless steel and so is not (or only very weakly) attracted by a magnet.

'18/10' is a designation used on some cutlery and holloware as an alternative to '18/8'. This designation is claimed to indicate a better quality steel than '18/8', and is essentially the same as the '304 (1.4301) grade .

'18/0' is a 'ferritic' stainless steel type, which is attracted by a magnet (like pure iron). This steel is known as '430' in the AISI system or 1.4016 in the European standard.
It is used where corrosion resistance is not too demanding as an alternative to the '18/8' 304 type. The chromium content is around 18% but there is no nickel addition.

Applications for these grades

The austenitic and ferritic '18/8', '18/10' and '18/0' stainless steels cannot be hardened by heat treatment and so can only be used for knife handles, forks and spoons.
Hardenable martensitic types of stainless steel, like the ferritics, contain only chromium, but with additional carbon. This enables them to respond to hardening heat treatments and so they can be used for knife blades.
The best quality table knives are made in two pieces using a martensitic blade and an austenitic (18/8 or 18/10) handle, bonded together.

Less expensive cutlery is often made as single piece martensitic knives, forks and spoons. This steel is not as costly, as it does not contain the nickel of the 18/8 - 18/10 types, but consequently has lower corrosion resistance. The corrosion resistance of cutlery made in this way should however be adequate for normal tableware use.
Cutlery manufacturers may choose to limit 'life' statements or guarantees on these lower cost pieces

I cut up fruits and veggies on a daily basis to make into baby food. These seem like they will be more than capable of performing the task.

Thanks woot, in for 1.

How well do these clean up after use.
Do you think they would say.... retain trace amounts of DNA etc..... also would something like say .... bone dull these really quickly

18/0 stainless steel is not a blade steel. It cannot be hardened by heat treatment, and it contains a very low carbon content. If you search for 18/0 or 430 steel on the internet, you'll encounter a lot of flatware and general steel use but little/no blades that use this steel.

There is generally a three way race between corrosion resistance, blade hardness (literal hardness: ability to keep an edge), and toughness (ability to resist damage: chips, shattering). These knives won't shatter or chip (they will bend) and they have fairly decent corrosion resistant for the 400 series (virtually no carbon), but they are not going to keep an edge.

So yes bfalley, these will bone dull very quickly.

Funny to see this carp on this side of the woot.

Monday can't get here fast enough now....

stilts wrote:How's the comfort of these handles - specifically the large chef's knife?

The handles look kind of shallow (not a large curve @ the fingers) compared to most of the plastic Farberware handles, but they are consistent with most wooden handled knives.

Deep Curved Handles

Standard Shaped Handles

BlackbeardBen wrote:These are forged and have a full tang - that means that these are at least decent.

Considering the price they look like a great deal to me if you are looking for a decent set of knives.

Given proper care they should last for a long time and cut far better than a cheap stamped set from your favorite superstore.

Ok, the knives in the front of the picture are forged, but the ones in the block look like stamped knives, so I don't think the set is forged...

speedoo wrote:Good find. "Technical specs" from that site:

* Blades are constructed from 18/0 forged stainless steel
* Diamond finish butcher steel resists rust, stains and corrosion
* Knives feature full tang construction; the metal tang extends from the tip of the blade to the butt of the handle and is visible on all sides of the handle, ensuring that the blade will not separate from the handle
* Blades feature tapered edge for ease of sharpening and a fine edge
* Full rocking motion and comfortable, balanced feel
* Triple riveted handles are constructed from nearly indestructible hi-impact ABS

Anybody know if the steel used (see first two bullets) is any good?

I have to agree, that at first glance, these look like pretty decent knives for $25 shipped!

Let's discuss galvanic couples! The chromium content in stainless steel allows it to develop a Cr2O3 film which acts as a corrosion resistant barrier between the environment and the steel. However, other elements (such as nickel or zinc) are usually added to act as an anode since the chromium acts as a cathode. This means that anything acting as the anode (negatively charged area) to the chromium cathode (positively charged area) will take on all of the corrosion, in this case, rust. So, the chromium will protect the knife, but if the coating gets scratched or broken in some way (which is easy to do), the steel will be the anode and rust since there is neither nickel nor zinc to sacrifice itself to the rust gods to save the soul of the steel.

Hope that helped

- Materials Engineer